Oh that Vulcan..
#41
Posted November 12 2012 - 10:20 AM
#42
Posted November 12 2012 - 10:24 AM
Zeshi, on November 12 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:
A coagulated, gloomy thinking in the intelligence, as my major ego.
An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."
#43
Posted November 12 2012 - 10:31 AM
DarkPulse, on November 12 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:
While i get you point, i still say most of the people who voted no are likely avid Vulcan users who don't want to see it taken away from their preferred class or nerfed in general.
Edit- And before you go all rage mode, i don't think its THAT op. It just needs to be taken off assaults and have its heat gen increased a bit. And maybe have its spread increased a bit but that could be pushing it. Right now we have a situation where anyone using a smg or an AR would trade it in for a vulcan in a heart beat, thats not good imo
Edited by Zeshi, November 12 2012 - 10:35 AM.
#44
Posted November 12 2012 - 10:33 AM
Edited by The_Silencer, November 12 2012 - 10:34 AM.
.
"The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice"
#45
Posted November 12 2012 - 10:42 AM
DarkPulse, on November 11 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:
NIGHTRAV3N, on November 11 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:
It's not OP, I feel. While it does do very good damage, here's the downsides.
- EXTREMELY noticeable. While you may wonder what the hell hit you sometimes, you'll never wonder who's got a Vulcan. You'll always know.
- It does generate massive amounts of heat. To down a C-Class I'm usually nearly maxing out heat on my Brawler - and this is with heatsinks equipped. I still manage to overheat quite a bit, and the cooldown for that is nasty. On the upside, hitting me with an EMP is basically a free enforced cool-off.
- Their power is greatly mitigated in multi-man situations. 2-3 players working together will be able to take the single Vulcan user out. It's a big reason I lost a Siege match last night that, on paper, we should've absolutely won.
1 and 3 are not even weaknesses imo.
1. If you are actually paying attention, you may not know exactly what hit you, but you should know what direction its coming from and if its bullets or explosives. The vulcans sound is a very minor disadvantage at best. Its saying "im a huge threat and need to be dealt with." But why is the player a huge threat_ Because Vulcan is op.
3. Anythings power is mitigated in multi man situations. The reason why vulcan users need to focused first is because they are more powerful compared to any other weapon (except for a flak in a only cqc situation)
#46
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:00 AM
Zeshi, on November 12 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:
1. If you are actually paying attention, you may not know exactly what hit you, but you should know what direction its coming from and if its bullets or explosives. The vulcans sound is a very minor disadvantage at best. Its saying "im a huge threat and need to be dealt with." But why is the player a huge threat_ Because Vulcan is op.
There's ways to take them down, you just do not want to give them a fight they're designed to win - which is close range. You want to get behind cover fast, and plan a strategy. 1v1, you're toast, which is kind of the whole point.
Zeshi, on November 12 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:
For what it's worth, I agree it should be restricted to C-Class only. It's way too powerful on A-Class due to their sheer movement and dodge capabilities, and it's overpowered on the Assault since they gain a free 15 seconds of use every 60 seconds. The latter is apparently a mistake, but who knows about the former.
And yeah, it is a "straight-up upgrade," but the slower ROF on Assault Rifle and Submachine Cannon make it more forgiving in terms of heat:
- Assault Rifle: ROF 0.135 seconds, 1.08 heat per bullet, 12 damage per bullet (~7.4 shots/second, 8 heat/second, 88.88... damage/second)
- Submachine Cannon: ROF 0.125 seconds, 0.8125 heat per bullet, 10 damage per bullet (8 shots/second, 6.5 heat/second, 80 damage/second
- Vulcan: ROF 0.105 seconds, 1.05 heat per bullet, 14 damage per bullet (~9.5 shots/second, 10 heat/second, 133.33... damage/second)
- Assault Rifle: 1,111.11... in 12.5 seconds.
- Submachine Cannon: 1,230.76 in ~15.38 seconds.
- Vulcan can deal 1,333 damage in 10 seconds.
So even though it seems OP... it's really not. We're talking a difference of ~222 damage or so between these three, and a difference in max firing time of 5.3 seconds. Thus, of all of these, the Assault Rifle is ultimately the best choice due to the heat-killing ability of the class, making it able to fire when the others have to more carefully manage their heat.
Edited by DarkPulse, November 12 2012 - 11:27 AM.
A coagulated, gloomy thinking in the intelligence, as my major ego.
An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."
#47
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:06 AM
DarkPulse, on November 12 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:
You basically just admit that its op here...
Why should one primary weapon have "unsurpassable firepower" compared to the other primary weapons_
Who should be focused down should be based on player skill, not who has the most imbalanced weapon.
Edited by Zeshi, November 12 2012 - 11:08 AM.
#48
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:07 AM
#49
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:14 AM
Zeshi, on November 12 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:
dont be so ignorant.
i voted no because the poll is a QQ poll. It may need some tweaking but as far as being broken im not sure. Every time im in a game and someone accuses the vulcan of being overpowered i always try and reproduce my results with the sub machine gun the next round and ive been able to 80-90 percent of the time. people also forget that with the berserkers ability almost any gun will seem overpowered
http://www.twitch.tv/budekai
also be sure to tune into The COCKPIT Hawken show! ---> http://community.pla...astshow-121212/
#50
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:17 AM
[ADH]Saunders, on November 09 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:
Thx!
http://community.pla...n-from-assault/
Can we move onto other things now_
#51
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:22 AM
BuDeKai, on November 12 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:
Internet insults, gotta love em. And you just supported my point that people who voted no are usually the ones using its currently op state.
Also, had you read my later posts you would see that i actually agree with you that it is not broken beyond repair.
Edited by Zeshi, November 12 2012 - 11:23 AM.
#52
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:31 AM
Zeshi, on November 12 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:
Why should one primary weapon have "unsurpassable firepower" compared to the other primary weapons_
Who should be focused down should be based on player skill, not who has the most imbalanced weapon.
BuDeKai, on November 12 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:
i voted no because the poll is a QQ poll. It may need some tweaking but as far as being broken im not sure. Every time im in a game and someone accuses the vulcan of being overpowered i always try and reproduce my results with the sub machine gun the next round and ive been able to 80-90 percent of the time. people also forget that with the berserkers ability almost any gun will seem overpowered
To be successful at Vulcan, you need to know when to not lay on the trigger. Both the Assault Rifle and (especially) the Submachine Cannon are much more forgiving at this, the former by virtue of +2.5 seconds longer overheat time compared to Vulcan (as well as its cooldown ability), the former by taking nearly a whopping extra 5.4 seconds to overheat. The Vulcan user must be considerably more aware of his heat buildup, at all times, than these two ever have to.
Edited by DarkPulse, November 12 2012 - 11:34 AM.
A coagulated, gloomy thinking in the intelligence, as my major ego.
An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."
#53
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:37 AM
In a team fight situation, its better to have someone on the other team dead and the vulcan user on your team close to overheating rather than having all opposing team members still alive and firing back.
#54
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:41 AM
Zeshi, on November 12 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:
In a team fight situation, its better to have someone on the other team dead and the vulcan user on your team close to overheating rather than having all opposing team members still alive and firing back.
It should get better as people learn the game.
Example: Yesterday I was in a siege match where the A-class pilot on the other team was dominating the scoreboard with his Vulcan setup, but not once did I hear/see my team try to deal with him in a good manner, instead of realizing that he would probably be overheated after a 1v1 they would give him wide berth after each kill.
This meant that he had time to cool down before the next engagement and helped him stack kills. He wasn't inordinately good and could be out-dueled like any other player, but the way the team engaged him allowed him to fight in his ideal scenario.
Edited by Skylead, November 12 2012 - 11:42 AM.
#55
Posted November 12 2012 - 11:52 AM
is it OP...
yes. & no
Plain n simple it needs "Small" Tweaks to make it something viable without making it pointless to get.
the whole point of hitting 20 is to work towards something better than others for your effort I don't undertstand the point of people QQ'ing over this in closed beta so much.
ITS OP ITS OP OMFG... wahhhhh
really , this is how people make suggestions now to get things maybe fixed for the better_
Try spending more time posting suggestions and giving ideas for a fix that the community would rather see than leaving it to the Devs to guess what we want based on "IT's OP Cuz I can't Win" threads.
With or Without this gun I still manage to avg the same amount of Kills per game which is like 25-30 per game only difference is I die less, so I don't see this as OP just not handling the way it should.
My suggestion for it ..
It's suppose to do less dmg at long range or spread in it's firing.. this really does not happen the gun is highly accurate at long range and this is something that needs to be fixed.
This gun should allow for complete destruction close range, but cause the player to become very stationary with limited movement... I will suggest concept Heavyweapons guy from Team Fortress classic/ or TF2. as a model to go by.. anyone using this would be doing a good amount of dmg but ur mobility hindered and long range .. pfft forget it.
This is my suggestion to make it still useful/ and a gain without punishing players for earning it.
Please move in a positive Creative direction on things rather than rallying people behind the QQ fest .. Time to grow up and help things move forward!!
#56
Posted November 12 2012 - 12:10 PM
#57
Posted November 12 2012 - 12:18 PM
If you look at the weapons in terms of raw DPS numbers, you get:
- SMC @ 80 DPS
- AR @ 88.9 DPS
- Vulcan @ 133 DPS
- SMC deals 400 damage in 5 seconds
- AR deals 444.5 damage in 5 seconds
- Vulcan deals 598.5 damage in 4.5 seconds
All that said, I only think the vulcan is moderately OP... I'd like to see the wind-up time increased, somewhere between 0.7-1 seconds, which would allow it to keep its face-melting properties but make it actually possible to abuse its disadvantages with smart use of cover. It would still absolutely annihilate any other weapon in open combat.
Edited by Immie, November 12 2012 - 12:38 PM.
#59
Posted November 12 2012 - 01:18 PM
When you hear the buzz of death, you run. Once you panic in this game, its over.
Its silly to be suggesting balance changes when all the mechs and weapons aren't even on the table yet.
#60
Posted November 12 2012 - 02:02 PM
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