87 replies to this topic

[knorp]

Subdivision, on November 13 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

One other thing I would like to add is that I think with greater player pool and more people correctly using matchmaking, games should balance out more. If you have more people playing, it makes sense to me that more people would be at each level of skill and so (provided players skill is accurately measured in game) people should get pooled with people of a similar level leading to less wonky games. If I have to work on getting to my level at open beta again, so be it. I see no other way to do it.

According to what I've read (of course, it's subject to change), matchmaking is going to use a lot of data to properly gather players. But as has said the OP, what's going to happen when you get this new mech of your dreams_ First, your previous mechs that you will have used to grind XP/HP will likely be well levelled up; so the matchmaker, which is said to use this parameter (level of your different mechs) mill match you against other players with levelled up mechs. Your new mech won't stand a chance, even if you pay for it (x2 XP/HP won't you make you instantly hit lvl 20 or whatever max level they set). And if it doesn't stand a chance, that leads to poor XP/HP grinding, meaning the boosters won't even compensate for the the lack of efficiency...

Something's broken, maybe everything for all I know...

On a positive note, every other aspect of the game is awesome. Just don't neglect player frustration witht the skill stuff.

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

p.s. Do you think the above is a good shift for player progression_

My bad, had not read your post (bad experience form other games forums made me unable to expect this kind of post from devs, in that kind of thread).

That globally sound good (in fact, just knowing that meteor folks are aware of the problem is good enough!).

Edited by knorp, November 14 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Frenotx]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

imagine if you could have the Infiltrator with the flak cannon and the grenade launcher - instadeath

I lol'd.

On a more serious note- I'm extremely excited by your post, for multiple reasons. For one, I'm glad to see how seriously / personally the devs are taking all this. Dedication to not only the game, but also to the community, goes a looong way.

The "it's not too late to change" part is also good to hear. I'm glad that you guys are still in a fluid mindset.

I love the direction that you're planning on moving the optimizations / internals in. Horizontal progression is way more fun than vertical progression.

[cH_aos]

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to address some of the issues that other gamers are also concerned with.

Just when I thought I couldnt get any more exited for next beta event I hear of all these new changes! It is going to be nice to see the evolution of this game in regards to direct player feedback.

[D20Face]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

(imagine if you could have the Infiltrator with the flak cannon and the grenade launcher - instadeath)

Priceless.

EDIT: Everything in that post sounds awesome. As with just about everything though I withhold my opinion till I can form a full one.

Edited by D20Face, November 14 2012 - 07:19 AM.

[3Jane]

Imagine an Infiltrator with an instant hit longrange flak cannon+splash damage and grenade launcher ///o///

[Nitris]

Your post made my week Saunders.

I'll just touch on a few topics:
I enjoy systems similar to the way TF2 works and I know that huge numbers of other players do as well; Just look at how many people are still playing TF2 after all these years!
This is nothing but a good thing for Hawken, because it will not only help build its popularity, it will help to retain its popularity.
Getting stomped because you are unfamiliar with the game (map awareness, game mechanics, etc) is an accepted and expected thing with new players for new games. Getting stomped becuase you have a large stat disadvantage isn't- at least in FPS games that is.

Everyone knows that hearing from the Devs is an awesome thing.
Hearing that they are listening and thinking about what us mere mortals are squawking about is even better.
You guys at ADH and MTR have a great thing going on here. <3

EDIT:

D20Face, on November 14 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

(imagine if you could have the Infiltrator with the flak cannon and the grenade launcher - instadeath)

Priceless.

+1

Oooh how much fun Alpha was. =D

Edited by Nitris, November 14 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Timber_Wolf]

My pants... I... I think I need to change them...

All of this sounds fantastic!  Thanks for the much needed post.  Any chance this can get its own post somewhere so everyone can see_

[Hipnox]

@[ADH]Saunders:

Awesome! i can't wait to see the new tech tree and internals.

Also, the idea of modifying your weapon sounds pretty cool too.

About the It’s too late to see major changes thing, i'll have to admit, i'm a complete stranger to game development cycles, so i have no idea how much a game can radically change this close to open beta. my bad.

[Saunders]

Defekt - we loved your ideas by the way (obviously haha).  You rock.

[defekt]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Defekt - we loved your ideas by the way (obviously haha).  You rock.

I've pulled.  I'll get me coat...

[Saunders]

I'll work with Scapes on seeing if we can get this info into a big EVERYBODY WHO IS CONCERNED READ THIS BECAUSE THIS IS WHATS GOING TO CHANGE post for you guys.

[TheChaffeemancer]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

7) No renting system
Answer:  This was actually an oversight during the last closed beta and totally our bad.  We already have this system in place, and you’ll be able to try it out during the next closed beta.  In the future we’ll offer additional options for renting & trying out new stuff as well.

Was this the trial feature that Kiwi's seen, just improperly implemented or is it something else entirely_

Also, good to hear that you are going the TF2 route. The game will be all the better for it.

[The_Silencer]

Wow!.. Saunders, you vaporized most of my concerns in one post.

Isn't that cool_... I mean.. ISN'T THIS COOL_!

Disclaimer: Although this thread may undoubtfuly be considered as polished gold -due to its coherence and precious content-, allow me to put some of music into it. (Or just ignore the following song and go back on topic directly):



Very glad!

[Sparkard]

Sounds good.
Let my just say one of my concerns.
About the renting system, although i don't expect it to go in that direction and you've already mentioned that you want people get their hands on new mechs more easily - i hope that in longer run it won't turn out like in most korean games - where playing 1h a day you have to wait 3-4 months to get just one item permanently if you don't want to buy most of them with cash currency. And where playing without renting is eighter extreemly boring or you get stomped by other players that spend their in-game earnings to rent things.
But with items that give you both advantages and disadvantages and a good balance of cash fountains vs cash sinks everything should be good.

[D3thpool]

wow saunders.
just wow.

after reading your long post all my gripes that i had with the current state of the game are gone.
it shows that you guys care.

and i am amazed by that.

[Frenotx]

Sparkard, on November 14 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Sounds good.
Let my just say one of my concerns.
About the renting system, although i don't expect it to go in that direction and you've already mentioned that you want people get their hands on new mechs more easily - i hope that in longer run it won't turn out like in most korean games - where playing 1h a day you have to wait 3-4 months to get just one item permanently if you don't want to buy most of them with cash currency. And where playing without renting is eighter extreemly boring or you get stomped by other players that spend their in-game earnings to rent things.
But with items that give you both advantages and disadvantages and a good balance of cash fountains vs cash sinks everything should be good.

By "rental system", I think they more mean "trial system". In CB1 you had the option to "rent" the infiltrator for a few days, at no charge. While renting the mech, you could use it in matches, and gain XP for it. In order to customize / permanently own the chassis, you had to pony up the points.

[h0B0]

Has anyone started a Saunders fan club yet_ i want to join.

If there is a renting, can we please have a rent-to-own system in place_

I have made hawken part of my daily life ( give me mech please ) and i would hate to spend 1k HP to rent a mech for a week but then still have to pay for the full mech once the week expires.

[KejiGoto]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

5) You can’t buy weapons
Answer: Yes, and I don’t think you should be able to buy weapons.  Some mechs just shouldn’t have some weapons if we want the game to feel balanced (imagine if you could have the Infiltrator with the flak cannon and the grenade launcher - instadeath).  An easier solution would be to make it much easier to get net mechs, so you can pick from a wide variety of different feeling mechs at any time, wouldn’t you say_

Also, our goal is to make each mech feel unique.  That’s for another post, but expect to see more strongly defined roles for new mechs that we release in the future, as well as updates to existing ones.

I could not agree with this more and I was actually hoping we wouldn't see the ability for people to buy any weapon for mechs. There are numerous mechs and weapon load outs that I've seen which would be incredibly overpowered together and this was a huge concern for me as we get closer to the Open Beta. This is part of the reason I dislike games like Call of Duty because it turns into who has the best load out instead of who is the better player.

However I would like to see the ability to have an additional weapon to swap out along with your primary. Giving the player two possible weapons to switch out lets players tweak their mechs to their play style more and also makes it a little harder to identify what someone is using until you see them open fire. A few times I've been able to rush people in the Infiltrator using cloak knowing that once I come out of cloak they are pretty well boned, especially the Rocketeer with the Hellfire missile which is most effective at medium to long range once it has a lock. If they were able to switch to something like a TOW missile instead as well as having the ECP Repeater or Heat Cannon would definitely give them the ability to surprise me coming out of cloak instead of leaving them scrambling to put distance between us so their weapons can be useful.

Giving us room to play is going to be key when it comes to mech design and I would like to see that option to switch out my other weapon with something that is designed around that mech type. I really like not knowing what I'm up against and having to change my tactics on the fly to meet whatever the situation is throwing at me instead of knowing from across the map that the Rocketeer is in for a world of hurt once I get up close.

Also are we going to see a way to replenish items during a match_ There have been a few times I've let myself die on purpose just so I can get my items back because going an entire match with one or two deaths means I'm getting my items barely at all. This becomes incredibly frustrating when I use my grenade and miss because I know the only way I'm getting that back is to die. Now I know that having a quick way to replenish these would be incredibly overpowered but I do think there should be some type of reward for those of us who can hang around in a match for a long time without dying instead of constantly giving the players the advantage we're going up against because they have their items again. Perhaps a kill streak reward like every 10 kills without dying nets you an item of your choice or something like that_

A few times I've skipped over fighting certain players because I know they are packing some serious heat and I just don't have the damage output with my standard weapons to overcome their damage output and armor. Letting me earn offensive items back through killing keeps players from being able to just spam items constantly and it lets the skilled players feel like they are earning more than just some extra EXP and a better K/D ratio by hanging in matches longer.

Just a few thoughts but overall I've been very pleased with the Closed Beta 2.

Oh and Team Death Match Insanity is awesome! I don't know what you guys were thinking that matches with more than 5v5 or 6v6 weren't fun because that was a total blast on the new maps. Are we going to see more of that with the Open Beta because if so then really promote that because those battles are massive, intense, and really promote team work to win especially on the new Siege Mode.

PS: Hawken will easily be part of my daily life.

[Aelieth]

Why in the world did I not find this post earlier_ This is awesome. I can't say much more, just too many words and I'm bad at forming long posts! So yeah, awesome, leaving it at that.

[DarkPulse]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 14 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I'll work with Scapes on seeing if we can get this info into a big EVERYBODY WHO IS CONCERNED READ THIS BECAUSE THIS IS WHATS GOING TO CHANGE post for you guys.

That would be awesome.

If we could get some clearer transparency on how weapons/items/'internals/optimizations "work," too (in terms of spread, damage, ranges, boosts/nerfs, etc.) that'd be great too. The current HUD gives vague, bar-like indicators, but the files themselves have it in straight-up numbers. Worse, it seems like those numbers have no bearing at all on the weapons themselves. (The Vulcan supposedly has an accuracy of 45, and yet it's possible to get pretty reliable hits even at a distance.)

Or at least let those of us who want to look at the guts of the game do so. After all, these sorts of things are a part of just about any game's more serious players.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 14 2012 - 02:59 PM.