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#1
MomOw

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I'd love to be able to mod that game, what about you ?

What would you change so that the game balance would be better in your opinion ?

 

Note : values are based on Hawkne's Salty Stats

https://docs.google....t#gid=416460446

 

My compedium :

 

Primary

- SMC (slight nerf) :

increase heat to 7.5, less minimum damages (10 DPS past falloff end, 1.15DMG per projectile)

- RPR (increase efficiency at mid-range) :

slightly lower rof to 4, increase dmg to 24, increase falloff start range to 100

- B3-AR:PPA (gameplay change) :

reduce heat to 32 (see SAARE (charged))

- PN-223 (lower heat to compensate low damages, side weapon for primary healer) :

reduce heat to 5

- Vulcan XT (more DPS for more Heat) :

increase rof to 6.5, increase heat to 10/s, increase minimum damages to 5

 

- AM-SAR (emphasis on semi-auto repeater) :

increase rof to 5, reduce damages to 21, increase heat to 9

- Slug  (increase shorter range rof and DPS at the expense of burst) :

(unscoped) reduce damage to 45, increase rof to 1.33

 

- Breacher (less burst for flak mode, increase rof) :

(uncharged) increase rof to 0.72, decrease dmg per projectile to 19

- Reflak-35 (change for a mid-range shotgun) :

reduce spread to 5.5, increase falloff end to 200, increase minimum damages to 5 per pellet, remove the bounce stuff (as it is a useless CPU computation)

- Flak (slightly more burst same DPS) :

increase damage to 14.5 per pellet, reduce rof to 0.77, increase minimum damage to 3 per pellet

- mini-flak (increase range, sort of):

increase minimum damage to 1.5 per pellet

- T-32 bolt XT  (increase efficiency at range, even more burst) :

(both modes) increase the start of falloff to 70, increase the minimum damage to 3.5

(uncharged) increase the start of falloff to 70, increase the minimum damage to 3.5, increase the number of pellets to 6 per shot, decrease the rof to 1

(charged) increase the start of falloff to 70, increase the minimum damage to 3.5, increase the number of pellets to 9 per shot, decrease the rof to 0.6

- T32 bolt (increase efficiency at range)

(both modes) increase the start of falloff to 70, increase the minimum damage to 3.5

 

- Rev-GL (buff at close range, more spam otherwise) :

make it shot 2 projectiles that deals 50 dmg each with a spread of 3.5, reduce rof to 1

- RE-D0X (ease aiming) :

increase projectile speed to 200

- HEAT (ease learning, slight buff) :

spead of 300 for both charged and uncharged mode

reduce extra reload time to 1s

- EOC reapeater (increase mines efficiency) :

add slight spread

increase damages to 20, reduce duration to 6s

 

Secondary

- TOW (less spam) :

increase cooldown to 2.5s

- GL (more burst) :

increase damage to 135, increase cooldown to 2.7s

- SAARE  (gameplay change, less charged spam):

(uncharged) reduce negative heat to 10 per projectile

(charged) increase damage to 90, reduce rof to 1

- Corsair, Corsair XT (buff, sort of):

reduce switching time from one mode to another

 

- Hellfire (gameplay change, more efficient for CCQ, more damages) :

make it shot 2 dumb missiles (0.15s between each) with a speed of 140 that deals each 52.5 damages on hit

make those missiles split into 3 smaller ones after 0.3s, the small missiles being the actual hellfire with slightly increased turnrate

reduce cooldown to 2.75s

 

- KE-Sabot (more DPS while unscoped at the expense of burst) :

(unscoped) reduce damage to 50, increase rof to 0.9

- Sabot (more DPS while unscoped at the expense of burst) :

(unscoped) reduce damage to 75, increase rof to 0.5

 

- Helix (gameplay change, slight nerf, sort of "burst heal") :

 : buff the starting healing to 1.5x the actual value and make it decrease overtime to heal half actual output after 3s (do the same with vampire)

 

Items

- Detonator (ease aiming) : increase speed to 110

- HEAT charge (gameplay change, more burst) : no remote explosion, increase damage to 90, reduce speed to 75

- Radar (nerf) : reduce lifespan to 30s

- repair charge (nerf) : reduce health amount to 110

- ISM (ease aiming, buff duration) : increase speed,to 110,  reduce radius, increase debuff time to 4s

- Rocket turret (buff) : increase rocket damages to 50, reduce lifespan to 60s

- move item regenerator to internals

- add drones as items : last 20s, same HP as coop bot destruction but stay close to player and shoot at closest ennemy on radar. Flak and Seeker drones.

- Holo : make them have radar signature and have random move on short area around the spawning point.

- Mirror image : spam 3 images for a short duration that has the same move anim' as player (walking, boosting, hovering)

 

Internals

- Failsafe : buff the failsafe to -33%, -66%

- Fuel converter : buff to 1.5% and 3% of fuel converted

- Reconstructor (slight nerf): changes to 2%/s for basic and 5%/s for advanced

- Basic Air compressor (new) :  1 slot air compressor that allow only 1 dodge while hovering.

- Range finder (new) : 2 slots and your reticule now show the range

- Target marker (new) : 1 slot add a red dot on the center of the hitbox of the target in the crosshair.

 

Abilities

- Grenadier (~change) :

make its ability change GL to shoot a cluster grenade (bounce but detonate on target) that spawn 5 childs dealing 35dmg each

reduce cooldown to 25s

- Rocketeer (buff) :

remove turret mode, make its special ability lock up to 4 targets, shooting a single (new) hellfire to each target.

each target being locked in 0.6s and reduce hellfire rof to 0.6 for single missile.

- Brawler (buff) :

reduce switching time from normal standing to turret, and turret to normal, jumping while in turret automaticaly stop turret mode and Mach starts hovering

increase front damage reduction to -20%

increase health regen to 15HP/s in combat and 30HP/s out of combat

- Infiltrator (buff) :

remove fuel consumption

- Berzerker (same damages but more heat, reduced cooldown):

increase rof by 15% instead of increasing damage, reduce cooldown to 30s

- Sharpshooter (ease the use of this ability) :

changes its ability so that it lasts 3s but only apply to the next Sabot shot

- Reaper (change) :

changes its ability to a "mark the target" stuff. Duration 3s, the next KE-Sabot shot make the target appear to all allies in radar and has a +5% damage debuf for 7s (same as one Re-D0X)

- Bruiser (buff) :

change its ability to last 2.4s (2 dodges)

- Vanguard (buff) :

reduce switching time from normal standing to turret, and turret to normal, jumping while in turret automaticaly stop turret mode and Mach starts hovering

 

Weapons loadout

- Berzerker (mini-flak for insane burst damages but overheat really fast with ability activated)  :

SMC, point-D vulcan, mini-flak

- Brawler (emphasis on burst weapon, AM-SAR for punching at longer range):

Reflak-35, AM-SAR, Flak

- Bruiser (mid-ranged weaponry, shotgun for shorter range):

AR, Reflak-35, AM-SAR

- CT-Recruit (gameplay change, good training mech) :

primary AR (no alternate), secondary : TOW, alternate Grenade launcher, prestige Hellfire

- Grenadier (no more vulgren, control area) :

EOC repeater, Breacher, Rev-GL

- Rocketeer (easy to use first weapon) :

SA-Hawkins, Heat cannon, Seeker

- Incinerator (prestige mini-gun, Re-D0X for support role):

Point-D vulcan, Re-D0X, B3-AR:PPA

- Scout (short range burst only):

mini-flak, flak, T32-Bolt

 

Armor values

Brawler : decrease armor to 790 (below graphic threshold ;-) )

G2R : increase armor to 700

Raider : increase armor to 530

Tech : increase armor to 325 (to compensate helix nerf)

 

Fuel

- C-class : increase fuel tank by 10, reduce fuel regen' by -1.5/s

 

Other

- Gives 3 (to 5?) seconds of free fuel upon respawning (until you shoot, use ability or drop an item)

- reduce tech scoring (2/3 of actual score)

- remove lock-on and target detection of invisible Mechs

- reduce orbs health pool from Mech destruction, add 20 EU drops from Mech destruction, 100 EU can regenerate one item charge.

 

Server

- slight HC/XP bonus if you stay on server (+25HC for second match and thereafter increase to +50HC after 5 matches)

- slight HC/XP grind while playing offline games (same as bot TDM)

- vote to lock server (auto unlock if a player leave the match)

- spectator mode when teams are uneven by 1 member. 50 HC bonus for going to spectator mode. In spectator mode you can only see throught eyes of your teammates. Match Maker ask for switching spectator every 2 minutes. Select spectator to balance scores.

- queue while playing playing DM or bot TDM, get the grind when you leave

 

Game modes

- no MMR locking, shorter queuing but let players vote when a player "out of fitness range" enter (display its name and ask)

- Coop TDM : adjust server MMR to highest player MMR.

- 9vs9 MA, 15 minutes games

- 1vs1 DM (emphasis on fight club with spectator mode and so on)

- DM rank based on Kill per minutes not total kill, grind XP/HC even if you leave before game ends.

- 2 players Coop bot destruction (+ more maps), no more buff when playing coop destruction, harder waves but that can be done without +100 armor and +30% damages. Also allow players to join started games for both coop bot destruction.

- customisable off-line TDM (maps, bots MMR level, ennemy mechs)

- off-line garage roaming with a test dummy that shows damages on hit

- off-line siege training


Edited by MomOw, 05 October 2015 - 09:20 PM.

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#2
CrimsonKaim

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Abilities:

 

1. Infiltrator cloak:

 

- Instead of using fuel, the Infiltrator cloak will build up heat slowly

- Improved cloak, make it really really hard to spot

- remove the speed buff from the cloak

- Add thruster fire plus ground dust while boosting (while cloaked)

 

2. Airzerker ability:

 

- Build up heat while active

- remove ability duration (ends upon overheating or manual deactivation)

 

3. Scoot ability:

 

- Remove speed buff

 

4. Predator cloak:

 

- Cloak breaks when taking more than 50 dmg in one second. Otherwise it will just sparkle like when you cloak or decloak.

 

 

 

Weapons:

 

1. For all hitscan sustained wepaons: Increase weapon spread while dodging and flying by 200% (tripled weapon spread)

 

2. Increase heat generation by 100% for all wepaons

 

3. If 1. is done, remove hitscan and repalce it with actual projectiles

 

4. Remove autoaim of the Helix

 

5. Remove Flak cannon, replace every Flak cannon with the T32

 

6. Add an ammo clip to the SAARE Launcher (prevents from infinite shooting)

 

 

Mechs:

 

1. New armor management: Front, side and back armor. If one armor side is breaks, the core takes damage. The core has a set amount of HP (like we have it today). When then front armor is broken, the back armor still can tank some dmg without the core being damaged.

 

2. Increase the speed gap between classes (atleast 5 m/s between the slowest A class and the fastest B class or the slowest B class and the fastest C class)

 

3. More customization options for mechs (and maybe weapons as well) like Radar tuning (not only the range) or vision improvements

 

 

Items and Internals:

 

1. Every internal comes with a tardeoff (weight for example) which has a downside (like in Open Beta back in 12.12.2012).

 

2. Something that can regenrate items (like killing a mech, collecting scrap parts, produces one item).

 

3. Items generate heat

 

4. Add my damn Silator already

 

 

 

...

 

 

Yep.


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#3
Interrobang87

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I can't think of a legit reason why a weapon would have a larger spread while being fired in the air. Are helicopters less accurate than tanks?
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#4
Elite_is_salty

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I can't think of a legit reason why a weapon would have a larger spread while being fired in the air. Are helicopters less accurate than tanks?

 

Well, I'm sure you've been around long enough to know that ground fights are way more fun then air fights. The air game must have more disadvantages.


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#5
Sp3ctrr

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6. Add an ammo clip to the SAARE Launcher (prevents from infinite shooting)

 

 

Are you me?


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#6
n3onfx

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- Scout : mini-flak, flak, T32-Bolt

 

 

I won't let anybody say I can't play my beloved Heat Scout anymore. NEVER.


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#7
MomOw

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I won't let anybody say I can't play my beloved Heat Scout anymore. NEVER.

 

Les go�ts et les couleurs... :-P


Edited by MomOw, 03 May 2015 - 09:22 AM.

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#8
Meraple

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I won't let anybody say I can't play my beloved Heat Scout anymore. NEVER.

I haven't seen you play that in like, this entire month.



#9
n3onfx

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I haven't seen you play that in like, this entire month.

 

I played it twice yesterday only, but I'll admit to running it a lot less recently. Blame Raider for being so orgasmic to play.


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#10
Grollourdo

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Idk... I like the game how IG is.... Except the scanner...

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#11
comic_sans

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G2-raider de-nerf, orb nerf, Charge on my scout, and to break from the realm of possibility, give every single mech one more weapon option just for grunts and hee-haws.  Slug brawler, flak infil, hawkins zerk, breacher raider, reflak gren, rev-gl scout, seeker tech, t32 vanguard, and any other idea that is half as good as these.  I am only being slightly facetious when I say this; we have a bunch of the same weapon combos on the same mechs and tons of untried other options with the tools we already have for basically no reason other than half of my suggestions being monstrously op.


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#12
PoopSlinger

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Force every mech to have blitz ability.


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#13
PepeKenobi

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I'd like to see what the devs think are priorities on all these "slight" changes we have been suggesting on the forums.

 

Summing up a ton of changes at the end, I have to admit...


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#14
Grollourdo

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Lol agreed

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#15
MomOw

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I'd like to see what the devs think are priorities on all these "slight" changes we have been suggesting on the forums.

 

Summing up a ton of changes at the end, I have to admit...

 

They said they'll first deal with servers, and they've done a lot without having to release a full patch.

I wonder what they have in mind for fully compiled client patch.


Edited by MomOw, 04 May 2015 - 08:38 PM.

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#16
brackets

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Why do you hate slug Reaper so much?

Slug Reaper: Time-to-Kill Assault Burst+DPS = (565 - 95) / (45*1.33 + 50*0.9) = 4.48s

This shaves off a second from the current unscoped slug Reaper's TTK against an Assault (5.46s) at the cost of the Reaper's burst damage, and the slight increase in DPS doesn't compensate for this (this TTK is still just barely better than the technician's). Currently scoped Reaper does slightly more burst damage than a TOW rocket (135 vs. 125). Applying the same scope modifier to damage, with your changes the slug Reaper's maximum burst is 88% of a single TOW rocket (about 110 damage compared to 125) and the slug Reaper's DPS is 77% of the AR Berserker or Assault (about 120 DPS compared to 155). This would leave the slug Reaper in some weird limbo of not being good at burst damage and not being good at sustained damage (and severely underpowered)

The Sharpshooter doesn't fair much better


Edited by brackets, 04 May 2015 - 09:40 PM.


#17
MomOw

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@Brackets : the purpose was to increase the DPS of the unscoped version while not making the weapons OP, to be able to be a mid range marksman that could follow Assault which could be an alternative to the "hide quickscope burst hide" gameplay


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#18
Flifang

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The problem with the reaper's ability is not the ability itself, it's the weapons and how different the am-sar and rpr vs the slug rifle play. The slug favors scoped play because it greatly benefits from being scoped in. The ability doesn't effect the slug rifle a lot as is and I feel the ability needs to be useful to both the slug rifle play and the non-scope boosted rifles as well. To do this, I think the best route would be to add to the reaper's combat role, and not so much as changing the current ability precision overdrive into something similar.
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#19
brackets

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@Brackets : the purpose was to increase the DPS of the unscoped version while not making the weapons OP, to be able to be a mid range marksman that could follow Assault which could be an alternative to the "hide quickscope burst hide" gameplay

 

The Reaper's alternative weapon choices already offer an alternative to the quickscope-burst-hide gameplay the slug rifle lends itself to. Significantly nerfing the slug Reaper's strength to moderately improve one of its weaknesses (in which it is still outclassed by both its alternative weapon choices and most other mechs) makes it much weaker than it is currently. 



#20
MomOw

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what do you think about having drones as items ? I mean the models are already available (coop bot destruction), I'd love to have one of these thing roaming behind me !


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#21
MomOw

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other thing to discuss : what do you think of an increase of minimum damage of shotguns ?

my point is that the spread is already making them useless at range, so the very low damage past falloff end isn't that necessary and favor sustained


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#22
n3onfx

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other thing to discuss : what do you think of an increase of minimum damage of shotguns ?

my point is that the spread is already making them useless at range, so the very low damage past falloff end isn't that necessary and favor sustained

 

I'd love this for the T32, extend the fall-off range only when charged. Meaning you can't spam it mindlessly but it's still not the current ridiculous 15 damage at 70 meters (which is really not that far in Hawken) when charged. Also helps the T32 Raider on some maps (Bazaar, Last Eco, Bunker) that is utter fuzzy bunny at doing at least a bit damage from mid-range.

 

Not so sure about the Flak though, the mechs it's on (Scout and Brawler) both have the TOW which is already really good at distance fighting.


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#23
MomOw

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The T32 is already a theorically good weapon, with a nice double shot feature that outshine flak in both burst and DPS.

But the fact that raider lacks range is an issue, in the (textwall?) I posted first I tryed to "fix" it with a reflak revamp.

I dunno if this idea is good/bad/ulgy

 

 

- Reflak-35 : reduce spread to 5.5, increase falloff end to 200, increase minimum damages to 5 per pellet, remove the bounce stuff (as it is a useless CPU computation)


Edited by MomOw, 10 May 2015 - 07:12 AM.

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#24
Hyginos

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The T32 is already a theorically good weapon, with a nice double shot feature that outshine flak in both burst and DPS.

But the fact that raider lacks range is an issue, in the (textwall?) I posted first I tryed to "fix" it with a reflak revamp.

I dunno if this idea is good/bad/ulgy

 

Raider lacking range is intentional. Its potency at close range and ability to rapidly eliminate range advantages need to have a tradeoff.


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#25
MomOw

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I just meant the raider may have an option for a close to mid-range primary, the reflak could be just as usefull as the point-D at range.


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#26
n3onfx

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The T32 is already a theorically good weapon, with a nice double shot feature that outshine flak in both burst and DPS.

 

That's one point where the field trumps the theory though, since while on paper the T32 has more DPS/burst in reality the CQC Raider fires between dodges / during the dance. So to make use of the burst of the T32 you have to charge it, wereas the Flak can fire it's full burst damage right away, no charging required. You can fire it immediately out of a dodge for it's maximum damage whereas you cannot do that with the T32. In this everyday scenario the Flak is better than the T32 at being a burst weapon.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining, I think the T32 is a great weapon and I don't want to it to be a copy of the Flak. I do wish it had slightly more damage at midrange. It's fall-off range is really, really short.


Edited by n3onfx, 10 May 2015 - 07:28 AM.

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#27
MomOw

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Its falloff range is already greater than flakk, but what about :

 

 

increase the start of falloff to 70, increase the minimum damage to 3.5


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#28
n3onfx

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Its falloff range is already greater than flakk, but what about :

 

increase the start of falloff to 70, increase the minimum damage to 3.5

 

 

I'd have to test the Salty Stats page because some people already mentioned several stats being off, but yeah a small increase to the minimum damage and the falloff range as you suggested would be nice. I also think that these increases only working for the charged shots would balance it out nicely.


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#29
MomOw

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The hellfire really need something because actually the bruiser and rocketeer are underpowered. It seems that the hellfire needs some buff, but increasing their damage would lead to OverNoobStomp, what about an increase in rof for a 40 DPS ? (2.75s cooldown)


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#30
MomOw

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made some changes after playing a few more 100hours :-P


Edited by MomOw, 13 July 2015 - 02:08 AM.

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#31
Bazookagofer

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The hellfire really need something because actually the bruiser and rocketeer are underpowered. It seems that the hellfire needs some buff, but increasing their damage would lead to OverNoobStomp, what about an increase in rof for a 40 DPS ? (2.75s cooldown)

Hellfires have been drifting between OP and UP for what seems like eons. (I think it fair to say 1-2 years?) I personally am in favor of a revamp. The way they are designed makes them absurdly difficult to balance. If you make tracking too weak then everyone will avoid it and it will gimp ya. If you make it too strong it will make absurd U-turns (Those days were hilarious though).  No middle ground has been found yet and for good reason.



#32
MomOw

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I still think that some of these changes could be implemented quite easily and should help balacing the game.

 

I want an AM-SAR rocketeer :tongue:


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#33
Nov8tr

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Well personally I'd change stuff. :rolleyes:


"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#34
TronX33

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breacher raider

Nuff said


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#35
DieselCat

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Hellfires have been drifting between OP and UP for what seems like eons. (I think it fair to say 1-2 years?) I personally am in favor of a revamp. The way they are designed makes them absurdly difficult to balance. If you make tracking too weak then everyone will avoid it and it will gimp ya. If you make it too strong it will make absurd U-turns (Those days were hilarious though).  No middle ground has been found yet and for good reason.

 

 

Seriously funny times.......... :laugh:

 

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#36
crockrocket

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I don't agree with all of these suggestions, but I liked the post because you actually put some time in and suggested actual numbers for stuff. Also, a lot of those were pretty good suggestions.


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#37
coldform

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Hyginos has got it right about the t32 raider. The purpose of this load out is to have enough health/speed to absorb the damage/break tc to close the distance, and land full force bolts in your target's grill, as well as survive a cqc fight.
From my experience, the best raider pilots use cover and initiative along with the raider's strengths to.. Well... Raid the line.
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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#38
MomOw

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This thread is meant to be a discussion about balance. Thanks for your comments :thumbsup:

 

Talking about weapons options, what are your ideas ?

The green parts below are stuff I'm quite confident that they are good ideas, for the other one the main ideas are highlighted
 

Weapons loadout

- Berzerker (mini-flak for insane burst damages but overheat really fast with ability activated)  :

SMC, point-D vulcan, mini-flak

- Brawler (emphasis on burst weapon, AM-SAR for punching at longer range):

Reflak-35, AM-SAR, Flak

- Bruiser (mid-ranged weaponry, shotgun for shorter range):

AR, Reflak-35, AM-SAR

- CT-Recruit (gameplay change, good training mech) :

primary AR (no alternate), secondary : TOW, alternate Grenade launcher, prestige Hellfire

- Grenadier (no more vulgren, control area) :

EOC repeater, Breacher, Rev-GL

- Rocketeer (easy to use first weapon) :

SA-Hawkins, Heat cannon, Seeker

- Incinerator (prestige mini-gun, Re-D0X for support role):

Point-D vulcan, Re-D0X, B3-AR:PPA

- Scout (short range burst only):

mini-flak, flak, T32-Bolt

 

 

I guet that a lot of players like the heat scout. IMHO it's far too similar to the heat Infil', and having both of them is somehow redundant (as SMC+TOW...)


Edited by MomOw, 22 September 2015 - 11:33 AM.

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#39
SatelliteJack

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Force every mech to have blitz ability.


This honestly sounds like a lot of fun.

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#40
coldform

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WE NEED THE ABILITY TO DO KARATE IN THE GARAGE
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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"





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