59 replies to this topic

[kaiserschmarrn_]

I have come to the conclusion that G2 Assault is underpowered.

 

Assault DPS (Tow Rocket + Submachinecannon): 78 + 40 = 118

G2 Assault DPS (2x Vulcan XT): 56 + 56 = 112

 

I think that the G2 should have even more DPS than the Assault, as the Assault has the advantage of the bursty tow rocket, and the G2 has the disadvantage of spin up time, but it doesn't.

 

Am I missing something?

 

[KamikazeCommando]

G2 has the advantage of sustained fire PLUS its cool-down ability; if you get up-close to one it can & will tear you to shreds almost instantly- nothing else has that ability in terms of sustained damage. On the flip side, stand more than 10 feet away and the G2 might as well be firing nerf darts- it has no range or accuracy to speak of.

I do like to use it against groups or slow moving targets, but it is easily defeated by a scout, raider or G2 Raider which do insane burst damage & move alot faster...

[crockrocket]

Probably the most underpowered mech in the game. That's not entirely bad though, it would be hard to balance with out making it OP. I think it's a fun mech, powerful in the right situations, but mostly just fun to play around with. That to my mind is what a G2 should be: fun and kind of a niche mech.

[Sp3ctrr]

 

 

Am I missing something?

 

 

The fact that the entire G2 range was intended to be just for fun. Something for us pilots who want to piss about with something a little novel.

[Kopra]

Actually,

 

SMC Assault DPS = 159.91  (104.35 + 55,56)

G2 Assault DPS = 155 (2x 77.5)

 

The DPS is very close.

 

 

The SMC Assault is however more accurate, much more heat-efficient, has much better burst (which especially affects TTK), no spinup, longer effective range, etc. which all amount to the G2 Assault being weaker.

 

G2 Assault's only saving grace are its only slightly higher armor, airspeed and walkspeed, and that you can't dodge hitscan.

[Flifang]

This mech does very well if you can learn to backwards dodge behind people. so basically turn your camera as you dodge. Always keep an enemy as a wall between you and their team. In clutch situations, you sometimes need to tease the spacebar to get a better shot and try and avoid a few of theirs. And ambush when you can at point blank. Always fight in point blank if you can.

[CrimsonKaim]

Did you just combine Assault and underpowered? 

[DeeRax]

This mech does very well if you can learn to backwards dodge behind people. so basically turn your camera as you dodge. Always keep an enemy as a wall between you and their team. In clutch situations, you sometimes need to tease the spacebar to get a better shot and try and avoid a few of theirs. And ambush when you can at point blank. Always fight in point blank if you can.

I need to try that, that sounds pretty fun actually.
Slightly unrelated, I've noticed a good G2A pilot and a good G2R pilot compliment each other extremely well.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

The fact that the entire G2 range was intended to be just for fun. Something for us pilots who want to piss about with something a little novel.

Fun is not a trade-off for balance.

And if the entire G2 range was for fun, G2 Raider would be much different.

Edited by meatmissile_, 02 July 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

G2 has the advantage of sustained fire PLUS its cool-down ability; if you get up-close to one it can & will tear you to shreds almost instantly- nothing else has that ability in terms of sustained damage. On the flip side, stand more than 10 feet away and the G2 might as well be firing nerf darts- it has no range or accuracy to speak of.

I do like to use it against groups or slow moving targets, but it is easily defeated by a scout, raider or G2 Raider which do insane burst damage & move alot faster...

This is straght up not true. G2 assault doesn't have the DPS to tear anything to shreds.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

This mech does very well if you can learn to backwards dodge behind people. so basically turn your camera as you dodge. Always keep an enemy as a wall between you and their team. In clutch situations, you sometimes need to tease the spacebar to get a better shot and try and avoid a few of theirs. And ambush when you can at point blank. Always fight in point blank if you can.

These might be viable tactics, but that doesn't sway the fact that G2 simplay can't stand toe to toe with any other mech.

[Hyginos]

Am I missing something?

 

G2A has the highest HP and walk speed (accepting abilities) of any B mech. It's actually faster than a zerk or an infil.

 

With that said it suffers from having exceptionally obvious counter play and is generally an easy kill in a 1v1 with any player that is not out of position or incapable of playing corners.

[The_Silencer]

IMO, a good G2 Assault pilot who catches you at close range will probably shred your mech platform in pieces in case you make some mistake. If you're caught by surprise and don't react quickly then the same fatal result for you may occur but much more faster..

 

I think this mech works pretty well at mid/close range too. Many variables to be considered though.. you know.

 

Nevertheless, considering its firepower plus its special ability then... well... this mech isn't precissely UP (underpowered), IMO. ;)

[StubbornPuppet]

I don't feel like the G2 Assault is faster than a Berzerker or Infiltrator at all.  Barely feels faster than the plain Assault.

 

Anyhow, I gave the G2 Assault a lot of play and effort to try to make it effective... but never found a way to make it much more than a suicide mech.  So, when I get frustrated by a group of enemies that are really hanging on to a location and can't be broken up, I pull out the G2 Assault and try to flank them - where I am guaranteed to get 1 kill.  And that seems to be where it ends with the G2A - 1 guaranteed kill.  I know I will kill any other mech in the game if I can just get the drop on them... but then I usually die right after that from another player swooping in to pick me off while I'm damaged and on the verge of overheating.  Part of this is the 'spin-up' time and part of it is the lack of range coupled with no burst weapon to allow for clever dodging and corner play to get me out of trouble.

[Badtings]

At close range the G2 assault is a nightmare. 

[kaiserschmarrn_]

At close range the G2 assault is a nightmare. 

 

But the stats very clearly tell me that the Assault is even more of a nightmare.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

IMO, a good G2 Assault pilot who catches you at close range will probably shred your mech platform in pieces in case you make some mistake. If you're caught by surprise and don't react quickly then the same fatal result for you may occur but much more faster..

 

I think this mech works pretty well at mid/close range too. Many variables to be considered though.. you know.

 

Nevertheless, considering its firepower plus its special ability then... well... this mech isn't precissely UP (underpowered), IMO. ;)

Again, the stats of the G2 Assault don't give it the DPS to tear anything to shreds.

Edited by meatmissile_, 02 July 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Again, the stats of the G2 Assault don't give it the DPS to tear anyhting to shreds.

To tell ya the truth, since my comeback, i've not picked up any G2A to play yet...

 

But according to my memories whilst piloting my fully equipped G2A very mucho in the past, these are as like pretty contradicting what you stated above... although, once more, that's only my personal impression about it..  ;)

[Flifang]

If you're looking at the stats displayed inside the game itself they are very wrong and misleading. As for the tear to shreds thing, merl and I a while back took it into the arena to test it against Orblord vanguard. If you hit all of your bullets the dps on this thing is insane. The dps falloff however is also insane. Miss a half a second of dps here and there and you're royally screwed. There is a very large difference between a standing still dps race and actually playing against another player. Heck, do you know the dps combined with the burst of the g2 raider? the highest in the game. In fact, if a g2 gets the first alpha in, and all other consecutive shots made by both players hit for max damage, only the brawler will win against it. And that's by about a tenth of a second time margin.

 

I wouldn't make the statement that these mechs were intended for fun right away. they take a lot of practice and finesse. I would say that the G2's are the most punishing, but also the most rewarding mechs in the game. If you're having a difficult time aiming, use the circle reticle that shows weapon spread only.

[Sp3ctrr]

 

 

And if the entire G2 range was for fun, G2 Raider would be much different.

 

Implying the G2 raider isn't fun.

 

SACRILEGE!

[StubbornPuppet]

Perhaps an easier way to look at the deficiency of the G2 Assault is that it cannot play corner games.  So, regardless of whatever DPS it might have, it has to get up close and personal, out in the open, to really do its thing.  That alone is enough to counteract any additional armor, speed and DPS it might have.

[The_Silencer]

Damn snipers ... :P

[Pelanthoris]

Again, the stats of the G2 Assault don't give it the DPS to tear anyhting to shreds.

I'm in no means a G2A vet, but you forget that both of it's weapons are hitscan non-splash, so you can literally hug the enemy for your top dps. In comparison with most other sustained mechs the secondary is a splash weapon, therefore if you get in hugging distance, you end up hurting your self. It's basically a melee mech and it truly is not op in any way.

[comic_sans]

Again, the stats of the G2 Assault don't give it the DPS to tear anyhting to shreds.

 

It works against Cs and Bs because more of your shots are hitting their fat, giving you a very high effective DPS.

[Amidatelion]

It was literally a mech designed to give vets something new to buy and fuzzy bunny around with in the garage. Same with G2R. They are not frontline mechs outside of specialized niches and pilots. 

 

That everything must be balanced is a delusion of modern gaming. Everything that is advertised as balanced must be balanced. The G2A and G2R were never advertised as such. There's no harm in having a few roflcopters in your garage, assuming you know they are cardboard kings. They are designed to be light-hearted fun, not serious competitors on the field.

[Gangland]

I use G2A for a mid-range suppression mech. It's actually is a great role. Like a big ass movable machine gun turret. The shear amount of daka the thing puts out is enough to keep people from peaking around corners while your team pushes. It's also great for escorting a-class teammates through tough situations. And, it just feels like so much pew pew. Very rewarding.

 

Also if you keep the vulcans spinning by alternately tapping the mice buttons it seems to shorten the "actual" spinup time.

Edited by Gangland, 02 July 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Silverfire]

I want my G2 Assault to be competitive.  Give it better DPS.  Give it better fuel regen/bigger fuel tank.  Maybe adjust heat gen (but preferably not) and bring the ability closer on par with the regular Coolant ability.

 

Thank you in advance devs.

[The_Silencer]

well... lol.

 

You also may imagine that your mech is a popcorn bag and the G2A equipped with microwave cannons instead of...

 

Ok. Cause and effect would be more or less as follows:

 

The closer you get to the G2A the faster you become in popcorn.

 

comes to mind thingies like: niches, roles, tactics, strats, accuracy, weapon range, and, ok, also ... counter meassures, e-shields, disruptors, emp. and ... plastic inis you say? ntz... ok forget that.. .) But where is the problem with the G2A? I'm not seeing any so relevant... really. I think that this mech was not balanced with no criteria at all... on the contrary.

 

-------------

*Assuming the G2A is decently performing during the cooking process..

*G2A : G2 Assault.

[comic_sans]

The closer you get to the G2A the faster you become in popcorn.

 

Best quote 2015 #becomeinpopcorn

[PoopSlinger]

It was literally a mech designed to give vets something new to buy and fuzzy bunny around with in the garage. Same with G2R. They are not frontline mechs outside of specialized niches and pilots.

That everything must be balanced is a delusion of modern gaming. Everything that is advertised as balanced must be balanced. The G2A and G2R were never advertised as such. There's no harm in having a few roflcopters in your garage, assuming you know they are cardboard kings. They are designed to be light-hearted fun, not serious competitors on the field.

G2R is too a serious competitor. I've proved it many times now. Get with the program

[Amidatelion]

G2R is too a serious competitor. I've proved it many times now. Get with the program

 

Compared to your Raider, no it's not.

[comic_sans]

Compared to your Raider, no it's not.

 

But G2R has cachet and sashay!

[Amidatelion]

But G2R has cachet and sashay!

Still waiting on my C-class tweak taunt.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

Its ability is too weak and it is bad at the one thing it is supposedly good at. Any mech that can equip a Vulcan has a better standing DPS than the G2A at pretty much any broadly-relevant range and still compete at close ranges due to AoE weaponry (TOW or Hellfire) and turn rate cap on the G2A.

There are many ways to fix the mech but the only one that makes sense to me is to combine the current coolant ability with a side effect of buffing fall-off range temporarily. What follows is that the ability can be used both and either as a coolant or an ability to increase effective engagement radius.

In practice, this sort of change will actually allow the G2A to keep targets under its zone of influence longer, very similar similar to what out already does.

[Teljaxx the Unintentional]

Any time I fight a G2A, I feel like I am fighting half a mech. It may be the reason I lose a fight, but only if is is supporting another mech. And even then, it would have been a bigger threat if it was pretty much any other mech.

 

With two Vulcans, it should be able to charge into a fight and shred everything within kissing range. But right now, it is not nearly good enough at that. Pretty much any other Vulcan or Flak carrying mech is better at facehugging fights, plus they have a secondary weapon to use in other situations. The G2A has no flexibility, and it is not the best at what it is good at, either.

 

I think increasing its DPS and armor by about 10-15%, and maybe making the Vulcan-XT more accurate, would be a simple fix.

 

A more complex fix that could be fun is make the Vulcan-XT deal more damage the hotter it gets. That way, if you can manage to keep your heat high, but not overheat, you can shred things. And you also have your ability as an emergency reset if you need to dump your heat right away. Increasing its heat capacity would probably be necessary with this change, too.

[DM30]

Make the G2A any stronger and you'll have people crying pay2win since the only way to get it without grinding out a full Assault is to buy it with cash.

The ADH devs said outright that the G2 line wasn't meant to be competitive. It can't stand toe to toe with other standard mechs because it wasn't designed to. It's made for fooling around and getting some lolz, not being the most effective at killing things.

[StubbornPuppet]

Teljaxx comments compliment my own earlier as a negation to fears that buffs will ruin it's balance.  It will never be a top contender because it cannot do corner play, has short range and has to come out in the open and get up close to be dangerous.  The problem is that it isn't even good at that because it is not strong enough to survive further than a 1v1 encounter.  It can be almost guaranteed a win in a medium-close range engagement, but if there's another opponent nearby, it doesn't have the speed, health or the DPS to have any hope in a second engagement.  It just needs a little help to make it mildly useful.

 

DM30, the way to prevent it from feeling like it's a Pay2Win mech is to remove the ability to pay cash for it until after the Assault has been fully ranked.  Then you can buy it for HC (if you have enough) or buy it for MC.

[Kopra]

I wish they never did this whole G2-thing. G2-Assault could have been its own class with a "passive" ability of wielding the same weapon on both arms, then having dual Vulcans, dual Heat Cannons and dual Sabot Rifles to fill most of the dual needs. Now it's just an excuse to ruin who knows how many art assets for the sake of creating "fun" mechs fast.

[FRX23]

I love G2A. I use it in Bunker, Prosk and Facility.

 

The best use i got for it is the flanking mid range.

I also have success with air and corner situations.

 

Doesnt matter the numbers, I think it is nice balanced atm.

 

NB: detonator can give it a dps overcome.

[DM30]

DM30, the way to prevent it from feeling like it's a Pay2Win mech is to remove the ability to pay cash for it until after the Assault has been fully ranked. Then you can buy it for HC (if you have enough) or buy it for MC.

Yep, that would do it. Or get rid of the progression aspect of it entirely and have it for sale alongside the regular Assault.

I'm mainly just wary of buffing it because hitscan sustain is already quite strong and most maps have large open stretches that favour DPS races. Making a mech with two hitscan sustain weapons any stronger sounds iffy for that reason. It makes me remember the time in closed betas where Vulcans were the big OP thing and someone toting one of those could melt you in no time. I'd rather keep away from that personally.