123 replies to this topic

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Addressing Pumapaw's latest post:

There's a few problems with this.

1. Smurfs are not very common. This is blown way out of proportion, especially since the matchmaker was tweaked to accommodate high MMR players.

2. Verified e-mail will not stop smurfs. They will just make new e-mails.

3. Nobody thinks they are a 'friggin' god. Of the few and far between times that good players do smurf it is because the matchmaker straight up won't let them play. I promise, crushing noobs is unfulfilling and unsatisfying.

4. Players resorting to bot tdm because of meeting the smurfs of high MMR players is not a thing. In fact, the chances of avg MMR players fighting against a single smurf from the top 100 are ridiculously low. In fact, they are more likely to meet someone from the top 100 playing on their main account.

5. You assume your MMR might get better. It won't; as demonstrated by you, you are unwilling to challenge yourself and get better.

6. You. You are selfish. You only want to play in matches where you can win, and that's something that you need to address. Not the devs, not the high MMR players, not the smurfs, you.

The reason you are leaving is not because of smurfs. It is because you don't want your precious 2 inch e-peen shortened by a single loss. Actually, players like you are the reason bot tdm is so popular. You can't bear to lose.

Edited by Kaiserschmarrn_, 27 September 2015 - 05:09 PM.

[PsychedelicGrass]

Psychadelicgrass

You're a horrible husband and I want a divorce. I'm keeping the cat.

Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 27 September 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[Pumapaw]

To Kash a moron!

 

 

I think your love to beat up noobs far exceeds your love for fair play.  I think your a perfect example of an internet bully.  Take this message instead of discussing a solution you attack me. I'm leaving the game for far more challenging games like XCOM2. Way above your mental intellect. I challenge you to beat xcom with the long war mod. It will never happen.  Why you may ask is the strategy of a shooter is way beyond your quick finger actions.

 

P.S. The money bleed on this game will never go away. Because of idiots like you. Have a great day. Once the investors figure it out they will close the servers and it will be gone.

Edited by Pumapaw, 27 September 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

1. Smurfs are not very common. This is blown way out of proportion, especially since the matchmaker was tweaked to accommodate high MMR players.

4. Players resorting to bot tdm because of meeting the smurfs of high MMR players is not a thing. In fact, the chances of avg MMR players fighting against a single smurf from the top 100 are ridiculously low. In fact, they are more likely to meet someone from the top 100 playing on their main account.
 

 

These two points are not true - at least not completely.

 

1. Smurfs are not as prevalent in this current Hawken society as it was before. Yes, I agree. But it only takes 1 smurf to ruin a game for 11 people. 11 potential people who will play the game again. With this tiny population, that is around one-forty(ith) of our population. Of course this is dramatic and exaggerating but 1 game where someone is wrecked enough could turn away at least 2 people per game.

 

4. Just not true. At least in my experience. It may be because there it a pathetic population in Australia, but I've seen an increasing amount of low-mmr players (in Australia) playing Bots TDM. I don't join them because they are out of my range, but regardless. I've seen this not true.

[ticklemyiguana]

I just hate the fact that we never really hear the other side of the coin besides when people make threads like this. You know what I mean? I want to know what it is they want to really change to hawken to make it better for them. I already know the opinions of us higher tiers players, on much of this stuff. We want a match but don't want to wait for a match. But I want to personally bring more players in instead of arguing to people on other sites and have them say the game is "too hard" or "unfriendly". You never really hear what they have to say besides well, the qq on redit or othersites, or this one. Which mind you hurts the rep of the game. The first thing someone new is going to do when come to the forums is see threads like this. Us against them bu(($h|t.

You know what an effective method for determining the opinions of newer players is, a method that when I felt truly invested in this community and the future of this game, I utilized frequently, to good effect both in terms of relations with newer players and in terms of decision making regarding the development of the game?

 

Just fuzzy bunnyng asking them.

 

Know how?

 

Smurfing.

 

It's actually super simple. You just utilize in game chat to say "Hey, I'm collecting some data on new player experience. I am an experienced player and I will likely play better than you, but I'm willing to answer questions about the game and give out whatever tips I can. Is that ok with you?"

 

For quite some time the biggest complaint people had was about the grind. I conveyed this in threads and other conversations, and while it's unlikely my particular keystrokes and words tipped the scale, the grind was one of the first matters of focus for Reloaded outside of technical aspects.

 

You know what the response from this community was by and large when this sort of surveying came to light?

 

"fuzzy bunny you."

 

As much love as I've harbored for this game and its community, it has time and time again in form after form demonstrated that most of the time, the most vocal people are the least worth listening to.

 

You have to ask, but you also have to ensure that your question is actually getting to them.

 

PS: Never once - not a single time in the several months that I was doing this was smurfing brought up even in regard to what I was actively doing. Literally never. (Hacking was three or four times, and that may very well be someone's perception of smurfs, but even that was merely a fringe of opinions and answers.)

 

My experience is that people who complain about smurfs are those like Puma who already play the game too much for quitting to be an easy decision.

 

Information. Not a stance. Doesn't mean smurfing can't hurt. Doesn't mean it isn't the best solution for some problems right now. Doesn't even mean it's important.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 27 September 2015 - 06:15 PM.

[Morticius]

ok. got about halfway, and decided this was a troll post. YOU of all people should know how much fun we have doing this. you spend HOURS here. all: OP notwithstanding. join for a few weeks, and you'll discover what really nice people club here, and enjoy the bot mode, TDM or CBD. i've been with a bunch that all get together and kill bots, get high/rekt/whatever, and have a partypartyparty atmosphere, Pharm HC, and generally enjoy the hell outa Hawken. and we'er allso the group that about 2/3 of the newbs that play their first game encounter. so don't knock it. we're not only having a hell of a good rekt time, we're also promoting the game, helping noobs, directing them to the guides, tutorials, How To Hawken, site forums *i make a personnal effort to make sure they get that NEWRECRUIT dev code* and keeping the faith. also practicing so my MMR doesnt crash too far below 1700...scrims can be ruff. again: join us in bot killing. it's a really fun social event, with no egos.

 

LOL. :D

Edited by Morticius, 27 September 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Derpy Hooves]

Addressing Pumapaw's latest post:

There's a few problems with this.

3. Nobody thinks they are a 'friggin' god. Of the few and far between times that good players do smurf it is because the matchmaker straight up won't let them play. I promise, crushing noobs is unfulfilling and unsatisfying.

5. You assume your MMR might get better. It won't; as demonstrated by you, you are unwilling to challenge yourself and get better.
 

3. I'd honestly hate to say, but that's definitely the opposite, I've run into quite a few both new and old, that assume they are gods gift to hawken. I find these people are often those who bash their own team and do a lot of unacceptable mud slinging.

 

5. Some people do, some people don't, as once said "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". No matter how righteous the good intentions are, people will be themselves and refuse the help.

[Onstrava]

Sorry I'm done with this thread, I'm off to better things now. I must go, my people need me. 

Edited by Onstrava, 27 September 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[Silverfire]

I for one have always used a real email for all my smurfs and have no intention of giving them up through means of verification. Do I smurf to stomp noobs? No, I don't. That's fuzzy bunnyng boring.

Of all the players I've met while smurfing never complained of smurfing. They ask questions, they ask for tips, they ask how to be better. They say "gg, wp" and they're polite. I have never heard a complaint about smurfs. Ever. And I might consider myself crafty jr when it comes to smurfs. I do it and I have no shame. I hit 2100 MMR in less than 5 hours on one. Are my Smurfs a threat to the current population as of right now? No, unless you consider my smurfing a threat to the 2000+ MMR crowd, and then I would be very flattered.

Edited by Silverfire, 27 September 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

 

I have never heard a complaint about smurfs. Ever. And I might consider myself crafty jr when it comes to smurfs. I do it and I have no shame. I hit 2100 MMR in less than 5 hours on one. Are my Smurfs a threat to the current population as of right now? No, unless you consider my smurfing a threat to the 2000+ MMR crowd.

 

Sorry, but I completely do not understand the logic here.

 

You wreck noobs for 5 hours and you say that's not threatening the current population? 5 hours = 300 non-stop ten minute TDMs. To be reasonable, it'd likely be closer to 35-40 TDMs, but regardless that's a lot of games.

 

Plus that 5 hours is still more than what many new players play before calling it a "COD clone with a new skin". I bet most newbies don't even get past the 2 hour mark after being wrecked repetitively by smurfs.

 

Tickle did make a good point about smurfs though, and made me feel like I should for information sake. But, Silverfire, if you find it boring to wreck noobs why do you smurf?

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 27 September 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Hyginos]

I just want to clarify something real quick:

 

EDIT: Drink.

Edited by Hyginos, 27 September 2015 - 08:01 PM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

But is it a problem.

Every time I say this, it seems it gets ignored. Nobody is going to stop aging the game because they had a bad round. Worst case they are just some twat like OP and want attention by bitching on the forums.

[TheButtSatisfier]

BY the way I'm leaving hawken come February. 

 

Based on your feedback in this thread, I've decided that leaving is the only thing you are good at. After all, you've had so much practice doing it during matches.

[brackets]

Yes, some players do smurf to stomp pubs.

[Silverfire]

Yes, some players do smurf to stomp pubs.

 

I don't deny that some players make smurfs to stomp pubs.  Anything and everything happens in games.  What I'm saying is that I don't make smurfs to stomp pubs, and making blanket statements that all high level players who make smurfs make them to stomp pubs is unfair and incorrect.

[brackets]

I don't deny that some players make smurfs to stomp pubs.  Anything and everything happens in games.  What I'm saying is that I don't make smurfs to stomp pubs, and making blanket statements that all high level players who make smurfs make them to stomp pubs is unfair and incorrect.

 

I was just trying to clarify that the opposite blanket statement is also false.

[x9x8x7x]

Could it be that the lack of new content is the main issue with all player retention?

 

Maybe but perhaps another issue with retention is that new players go to the shop to view and or buy new weapons and items or what have you but their mech is not leveled high enough to purchase anything with HC yet so they assume the game is P2W since the shop shows that MC is the only way to get the stuff?

 

Possibly and I could go on but I find myself becoming more apathetic towards Hawken and surprised myself by getting even this much typed out.

 

Surprise! My fingers continue!

 

Never mind any of that though and let us get back to discussing how those filthy stinking smurfs and the other individuals that only want to play people who are less skilled than themselves are the real issues instead of the, you know, actual issues Hawken has.

[Draigun]

[...]

You can say I'm not your boss, I can't tell you what to do, your right I'm not and I can't, but you need to wake up and see the results of smurfing and lesser mmr restrictions are making an impact on community expansion. I've talked to other players from various other games, who've shown interest in Hawken but refuse to try because of the lack of humbleness or respect for new players in the current community. New devs can promote promote promote, but until we the player base change our ways be more leanient in the way we play and conduct ourselves the game will never grow. [...]

 

This mentality is what's going to kill the game, not the smurfs or the MMR restrictions. It's foolish to even attempt to measure the communities' intention knowing full well that our population continues to dwindle.

 

It's also absurd to even suggest the idea that those skilled enough should lower their respective skill level all in the name of fair play. It's not even remotely their problem that you haven't mastered the game�let alone attempt to improve yourselves. Veterans will never have the responsibility to "improve" (as in, a population increase) our player base. That form of action is left for the developers�you know, the ones who make the game? That being said, most vets are certainly pushing for an engaging and healthy competitive scene; but even then this only affects a small percentage of the player base.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Based on your feedback in this thread, I've decided that leaving is the only thing you are good at. After all, you've had so much practice doing it during matches.

Remind me to put a good roasted gif in here when I find one.

[Aregon]

3. I'd honestly hate to say, but that's definitely the opposite, I've run into quite a few both new and old, that assume they are gods gift to hawken. I find these people are often those who bash their own team and do a lot of unacceptable mud slinging.

 

5. Some people do, some people don't, as once said "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". No matter how righteous the good intentions are, people will be themselves and refuse the help.

Number 5 may be the very case of being too prideful to ask for help, even if they want to. I know so because I basically described myself now.

[cbrxx]

Puma, realize the power of the tow.  Admittedly I did more than 3k kills on the g2a but I think if you just ditched that mech you'd have a lot more fun with the game.  I sure have.

 

On topic, I really think after participating in that bot culling event that players probably are better off against bots for a while and I also noticed how difficult those bots got when a really high mmr player joined them.  I think if the vets who do smurf to help the newbs would tell the new players to try the tdm bot matches and other vets would join those matches to make them challenging we could potentially make a positive impact on new players.

Edited by cbrxx, 28 September 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[RedVan]

Threads like these make me want to smurf more

[PsychedelicGrass]

With the low playerbase and thus a lack of skilled players online at any given time to play with, I get placed in low mmr (<2k) servers 95% of the time. Playing at very late hours doesn't help.. but I'm assuming other higher mmr players experience something similar.


Using a smurf usually means you'll be placed in low mmr servers. Smurfing or not I'll be playing in low mmr servers most of the time, so what difference does it make? O_o


Smurfing isn't a problem. Hopefully this clears things up a bit for those who think it is.

Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 28 September 2015 - 12:10 AM.

[Sorroritas]

Still I am not sure if removing server mmr restrictions is a good idea or solution to account the smurfing.

 

I'm talking about EU servers here, I'm not fully aware of the situation on US servers and how both compare to each other...

When we had the test with the widened MMR bracket for servers I noticed something funny. Before widening the range there was at least 1 or 2 TDM games in the 2200-2300 mmr range. When the MMR bracket got widened there were only sub 1800 games available. What happened? I guess higher MMR players were put in pairs into "Noob Servers", resulting in the small number of 2100+ MMR players getting scattered across the servers even more. Balancing these kind of games with two 2200+ MMR players on each team with all others being noobs is impossible, it becomes a game of "who can stop his noobs from charging into the enemy".

 

Anyways, the MMR bracket is back again.

Currently there are almost no 2000+ MMR servers around in EU. The range I see all the time is 1500-1800. And the 1700+ ones are only because there's one, two 2200+ MMR players and the rest is total beginners.

 

Now smurfs come into play.

I get into a game with my imaginary 2000 MMR and get totally wrecked by the 2400 MMR smurf. I can't coordinate with my team either because half of them don't even know how to repair, or don't speak english, or don't read chat or whatever. So it becomes a 40-5 game. The problem here is that the smurfs score is like 3-4x higher my score.

The result: I lose 30 MMR in one game.

Then the smurf leaves, I go total apeshit on the remaining players which are in the range of (1500 MMR to 1700 MMR with me being 1970 MMR) and totally wreck them like the smurf in the last match and go 40-5.

The result: I gain 0.2 to 1 point of MMR.

 

Now you can argue but hey Sorro, why are you playing in a 1600 MMR average server then (stomping noobs without smurf)?

Because there's no other one around. (<- The actual problem)

So what tells us this? One game with getting wrecked by a smurf sets me back 30-150 (IF I get 1 mmr after scoring 3x higher than everyone else) matches. (5-25 hours worth of TDM).

 

TL;DR:

There will be never high(er) MMR servers around if higher MMR people constantly get into lower MMR matches with smurfs and strip others of their MMR points.

Unlocking the servers will probably result in already few 2100+ MMR players get scattered across lower MMR servers even more.

Some smurfs won't go away with unlocking the servers because some smurfs aren't solely used because there are no other servers to play on.

 

All we need is more people start playing Hawken and get into the MMR gap so we can have more high(er) MMR games around.

Which probably will be a thing hard to accomplish even with new updates. As mech arena shooters with non-twitch dynamics is probably not everyone's cup of coffee.

 

Edit: Wording, spelling and whatnot

Edited by Sorroritas, 28 September 2015 - 12:51 AM.

[HHJFTRU]

Smurfing isn't a problem...

 

I don't know how hard it is for you to understand that, especially recently (with the matchmaker changes), very few people have been smurfing. Even back when I was lower mmr, I'd encounter maybe one smurf every twenty games or so.

 

According to my experience, In EU it's common. 

 

 

Not a single player is going to stop playing any game if they have a few bad matches or fight against a skilled player.

 

I think that the opposite is true. People try the game, get wrecked, uninstall.

 

Last time during the Q&A with Josh my suggestion was not mentioned by Merl (probably because few guys on the voice chat brought up similar things), so  here I go again. I also put this in a support ticket.

Why not bootcamp-servers with limitations to both pilot level and MMR (15 and 1500, respectively).

Tweak MMR calculation until pilot lvl 15 : +150 MMR for the MVP. This would put away smurfs from the bootcamp servers after 2 matches.

Unlock the servers that are avg 1800-1900 and above for all players. Currently, vets are spread across all servers and there are very few 2100+ servers for this reason. They need to be concentrated to a few servers.

Edited by someone, 28 September 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[Meraple]

You high mmr people can organize your own games because you know other high mmr people. Maybe not to the same skill, but all you need to have is a moderator to be on their server and for him to manually balance the teams.

We can't organize games because not enough people are on at the same time..

KDR members have practice every Sunday, but that's all organized semi-high-mmr matches I know of in EU.

 

It's really not as easy as you wrote.

 

 

I still don't even understand the reasoning for smurfing. If it's "so I can play the game" that is a very weak reason because you can find many different ways to keep playing without ruining it for others.

 

And before anyone says "it's too hard", then I'm really questioning if you truly like the game or if you just like to crush noobs.

It's too hard for my taste.

Usually the highest-MMR match in EU is full, or very close to full.

Queueing up is much too slow, as the open spot's usually filled by the time it tries to put me in.

Smurfing allows me to join manually through server browser.

 

 

Because this is the only way for me to get a game in my home server.

That's you, and we're not you.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 28 September 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Anyways saying anything at this point is going to conclude with nothing. Everyone is arguing about everything and nothing is being solved. I'm just going to agree to disagree and allow the devs to conclude what they think. I hope many of you would do the same as we are better then the petty disputes I'm seeing here. Maybe the "for-smurfers" (so to say) have put time into their smurf accounts that it would mean something to them if they lose them. And maybe the "anti-smurfers" just have had a bad experience with people smurfing in the past. I sure can say that. But I don't understand why people would want smurfing so my opinion is automatically biased.

 

Just please guys, can we agree to disagree and move on? I know this is a hot subject but at this point everything that has been needed to be said has been said and all valid points have been pointed out. I would bet that the devs would be reading this topic and be looking at all the points and considering each and every point stated here. 

 

And, can we please cut down with some of the hateful comments on here? I've realized that I've been harsh over some of the things I've said, so sorry about them. But it would mean a lot to me if we could all cut back a bit on the harshness in which we speak.

 

Spoiler

Because we're making Pikachu cry.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 28 September 2015 - 03:32 AM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Daw of ash the god

Thank you, we needed that

[HHJFTRU]

Find some real rookies that are actually on this forum. My bet is 95% of people here are 1800+

 

Rookie ish, but at the end of their rookie stage, and also an exception for their MMR already, as they are actually here.

 

Polling the forums is an unsatisfactory way to find out new players' opinions.

 

I think I'm qualified. I started in late April and although I'm 1800+ now, still fresh to the game and I can remember the new player experience vividly.

I was not shy to express my noob impressions on this forum. Should you have questions or even a poll, let me know. 

Edited by someone, 28 September 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Derpy makes a good point about changing your play style when you know you're in a room full of people you'll smash. I'll do it when people announce they just started playing. Dial it back, give them a chance to dodge around a little bit to get the feel, don't go straight money shot every other shot. In other words give them a chance, at any time you can turn up the heat and change the tide of battle of it starts going south on you. This might help them as they learn and it might help you practice your dodging a bit. Just a thought.

[Shoutaxeror]

Derpy makes a good point about changing your play style when you know you're in a room full of people you'll smash. I'll do it when people announce they just started playing. Dial it back, give them a chance to dodge around a little bit to get the feel, don't go straight money shot every other shot. In other words give them a chance, at any time you can turn up the heat and change the tide of battle of it starts going south on you. This might help them as they learn and it might help you practice your dodging a bit. Just a thought.

 

Yeah, don't play assault when smurfing, I don't see the point. And don't reply to me : "It's my main, a smiple mech for a simple person".

[thedark20]

I'm gonna ignore the reply to my other post, it missed the point of the topic clearly.

As i said, Smurfing has various intentions, but the one i was talkinga bout is about Pub Stomping. You can have a smurf account to play with begginer friends or you can make one to help other rookie players. People who stomp pubs are, as i said, people who can't let the other people have fun for their own entertainment.

It's gonna be always a problem and it is in the people's hand to don't let that happen. Change playstyle to a more basic one like walking around, giving away your position from time to time and making the rookies you're playing against feel confortable as you make a more challenging atmosfere.

[Aregon]

Alright my furry fetishistic friend,

 

This is the kind of ignorant shiet I'm talking about

 

"Oh you're better than me? What's that? This is the highest MMR match? And you have no choice but to queue into this one if you want to play? Don't play then, its only fair!"

 

Like what the actual fuzzy bunny, man.

Ok that is kinda somewhat extreme, to attack someone`s fetishes in an argument about a f*cking game mechanic.

 

This is what Amid mean with change your damn attitude. 

[StubbornPuppet]

I blame ALL of this on (what I call) The Barney Generation.

 

That whole "everyone is a winner", "everyone gets a participation award" spewage of the 90's and early 00's created a whole generation of people who do not know how to deal with losing.  Sportsmanship and the appreciation for the challenge has become a foreign concept, so has being graceful about winning and showing respect for those who don't equal your skill.

 

See, people at both ends of this incessant argument are victims of the poison of Barney and his army of feel-goods.  Those who get upset that they didn't win because someone was better quit because it's the only thing they can think of.  Those who get upset that they can't find a match and want to win at any cost are willing to stomp and lie about it to get the rush of winning - and they blame those who cannot match their skill for the problem.

 

What a waste.

[ticklemyiguana]

I blame ALL of this on (what I call) The Barney Generation.

 

That whole "everyone is a winner", "everyone gets a participation award" spewage of the 90's and early 00's created a whole generation of people who do not know how to deal with losing.  Sportsmanship and the appreciation for the challenge has become a foreign concept, so has being graceful about winning and showing respect for those who don't equal your skill.

 

See, people at both ends of this incessant argument are victims of the poison of Barney and his army of feel-goods.  Those who get upset that they didn't win because someone was better quit because it's the only thing they can think of.  Those who get upset that they can't find a match and want to win at any cost are willing to stomp and lie about it to get the rush of winning - and they blame those who cannot match their skill for the problem.

 

What a waste.

Strangely Puma is in his thirties or forties or something.

 

That being said you can make your point without stereotyping a whole generation you galloot.

 

Most of the people you're referencing grew up with games that didn't have matchmaking and are quite used to it. It's just a widely recognized fact of I guess, gaming psychology, that effective matchmaking is better for the game.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 September 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Sylhiri]

Generally I find that a "challenge" generally doesn't mean getting slaughtered consistently and suddenly. If new players have no idea what just happened then how exactly are they supposed to learn, especially from a game that is quite different then a standard shooter and one with no replay function. Learning from someone reasonably better then yourself will make you better but being new at chess against a grandmaster is not only discouraging but could potentially slow your learning progress.

 

Not saying that smurfing is a problem or not, just find it funny as hell when people suggest a 2900 player can make a 1500 player better by stomping his ass. IMO a 1800 player can do that job and do it better at his current skill. 

[StubbornPuppet]

I blame ALL of this on (what I call) The Barney Generation.

 

That whole "everyone is a winner", "everyone gets a participation award" spewage of the 90's and early 00's created a whole generation of people who do not know how to deal with losing.  Sportsmanship and the appreciation for the challenge has become a foreign concept, so has being graceful about winning and showing respect for those who don't equal your skill.

 

See, people at both ends of this incessant argument are victims of the poison of Barney and his army of feel-goods.  Those who get upset that they didn't win because someone was better quit because it's the only thing they can think of.  Those who get upset that they can't find a match and want to win at any cost are willing to stomp and lie about it to get the rush of winning - and they blame those who cannot match their skill for the problem.

 

What a waste.

 

 

Strangely Puma is in his thirties or forties or something.

 

That being said you can make your point without stereotyping a whole generation you galloot.

 

Most of the people you're referencing grew up with games that didn't have matchmaking and are quite used to it. It's just a widely recognized fact of I guess, gaming psychology, that effective matchmaking is better for the game.

 

I was partly trying to be cheeky and partly just grumbling.  I'm in my forties and I like to grumble about what's wrong with kids these days.  Just ignore me like all the young whipper-snappers do.

[EM1O]

@StubbornPuppet

wait another 25 years. they pay attention to me---they get all the kids and pets indoors when they see me coming.  :D

[hellc9943]

The kids these days certainly didn't play games in the 90ies and 00s, they were born at that time. I played online FPS through these times and I remember them of the "suck it up get good or die trying times". No matchmaking, no rating, no nothing. Stomp or get stomped and sometimes get an even game. It's true that the current generation is weak and not used to this, but you were targeting the wrong generation, it's one generation after this (it always is).

[Aregon]

Generally I find that a "challenge" generally doesn't mean getting slaughtered consistently and suddenly. If new players have no idea what just happened then how exactly are they supposed to learn, especially from a game that is quite different then a standard shooter and one with no replay function. Learning from someone reasonably better then yourself will make you better but being new at chess against a grandmaster is not only discouraging but could potentially slow your learning progress.

 

Not saying that smurfing is a problem or not, just find it funny as hell when people suggest a 2900 player can make a 1500 player better by stomping his ass. IMO a 1800 player can do that job and do it better at his current skill.