123 replies to this topic

[ticklemyiguana]

The kids these days certainly didn't play games in the 90ies and 00s, they were born at that time. I played online FPS through these times and I remember them of the "suck it up get good or die trying times". No matchmaking, no rating, no nothing. Stomp or get stomped and sometimes get an even game. It's true that the current generation is weak and not used to this, but you were targeting the wrong generation, it's one generation after this (it always is).

sigh.

 

As a >30 year old man, you're targetting ten to fifteen year olds and calling them weak. You're a ninny.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 September 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[Sorroritas]

Not saying that smurfing is a problem or not, just find it funny as hell when people suggest a 2900 player can make a 1500 player better by stomping his ass. IMO a 1800 player can do that job and do it better at his current skill.

 

What what.

When I started at the gym I went to weightlifting and started with 900 kg straight.

Edited by Sorroritas, 28 September 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Derpy Hooves]

This mentality is what's going to kill the game, not the smurfs or the MMR restrictions. It's foolish to even attempt to measure the communities' intention knowing full well that our population continues to dwindle.

 

It's also absurd to even suggest the idea that those skilled enough should lower their respective skill level all in the name of fair play. It's not even remotely their problem that you haven't mastered the game�let alone attempt to improve yourselves. Veterans will never have the responsibility to "improve" (as in, a population increase) our player base. That form of action is left for the developers�you know, the ones who make the game? That being said, most vets are certainly pushing for an engaging and healthy competitive scene; but even then this only affects a small percentage of the player base.

How is showing a bit of humility absurd? It's more absurd to shun those who are new, who's voices are often never heard just because they lack natural skill. To even assume the responsibility of helping increase the player base is entirely left up to the developers is absurd. Let me ask you a few quick questions.

 

Who do the new players turn to for advice?

 

Who do the new players look to for inspiration?

 

Who's in more contact with new players, Us as a community, or the devs?

 

What's the point in pushing for competitive play if you have what? 50 people? 100? 200?

 

I get your all die hard on competitive play, I get that, but if we the community don't foster the children(new players). Then your dreams of diverse competitive play will never happen. Your over desire for competitive play is what's choking the community, I may be stepping on toes here by saying this but. Let's face it, you and I along with everybody else here knows, the size of our current community isn't gonna support it for very long. I know you desire it, crave it, but unless we attempt to help the unskilled, the new, the weak, whatever you wish to call them on that mighty imaginary throne of yours as you sit on high, then the competitive lifestyle will never come to fruition.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Saying smurfing is having any measurable impact on new player retention rates is based on conjecture and frankly is a waste of everyone's time. No amount of mentorship, anti-smurfing measures, or matchmaking improvements will make our population grow by any significant measure. The prescription for increasing the game's population is marketing, and new content must be paired with that in order to achieve the desired effect.

 

I could just as easily say that haters are the source of our low population / why our low population isn't growing and have as much proof as those who say smurfing does the same thing.

[ticklemyiguana]

 bad link

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 September 2015 - 02:39 PM.

[Aregon]

How is showing a bit of humility absurd? It's more absurd to shun those who are new, who's voices are often never heard just because they lack natural skill. To even assume the responsibility of helping increase the player base is entirely left up to the developers is absurd. Let me ask you a few quick questions.
 
Who do the new players turn to for advice?
 
Who do the new players look to for inspiration?
 
Who's in more contact with new players, Us as a community, or the devs?
 
What's the point in pushing for competitive play if you have what? 50 people? 100? 200?
 
I get your all die hard on competitive play, I get that, but if we the community don't foster the children(new players). Then your dreams of diverse competitive play will never happen. Your over desire for competitive play is what's choking the community, I may be stepping on toes here by saying this but. Let's face it, you and I along with everybody else here knows, the size of our current community isn't gonna support it for very long. I know you desire it, crave it, but unless we attempt to help the unskilled, the new, the weak, whatever you wish to call them on that mighty imaginary throne of yours as you sit on high, then the competitive lifestyle will never come to fruition.

*feet-kissing intensifies*

[Derpy Hooves]

*feet-kissing intensifies*

*sits and looks at hooves* But dear sir, I have hooves not feet silly!

[hellc9943]

sigh.
 
As a >30 year old man, you're targetting ten to fifteen year olds and calling them weak. You're a ninny.

I am more targeting fifteen to twentyfive, and the word you are looking for is "Ninja".

[Amidatelion]

More.

Welcome? Like, what?

*sits and looks at hooves* But dear sir, I have hooves not feet silly!

Oh good. For a moment there I was in danger of remotely considering Aregon's position.

Edited by Amidatelion, 28 September 2015 - 02:30 PM.

[Pumapaw]

Thanks for all the bashing. I seriously do appreciate it.... I saw a few good post on here about a problem that is real. The only real fix is the player. I do scan games before entering for the level. I may join when it shows below 2200 as a top end. But you can tell when someone or a few are playing way above a certain level. The discussion was in hopes to save an awesome game.  Have a good day.

 

But occasionally I do join by accident I will leave I leave when I do not benefit a team. I see no point in being wasted repeatedly to make someone feel better and hurt my team. It is better I leave that game.

[ATX22]

The kids these days certainly didn't play games in the 90ies and 00s, they were born at that time. I played online FPS through these times and I remember them of the "suck it up get good or die trying times". No matchmaking, no rating, no nothing. Stomp or get stomped and sometimes get an even game. It's true that the current generation is weak and not used to this, but you were targeting the wrong generation, it's one generation after this (it always is).

 

These old games where you had to "get gud"; if someone was pub stomping in a server with an active administrator, they usually ended up being accused of hacking which would lead up to them being banned.  That, and everyone generally connected to the server with the best ping and people playing anyway, there wasn't any of this working your way up some MMR ladder until you start battling against the best of the best.  You just had to play against whomever made up the general population of the servers you frequented.  Rule of thumb was, if you were average, avoid the self advertised noob friendly servers and if you ran your own server, ban all the people that would clan stack/pub stomp/rage/exploit and empty out your server.. along with kicking cheaters and griefer and so on.  

 

Games today != games from way back when.

Edited by ATX22, 28 September 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Ok that is kinda somewhat extreme, to attack someone`s fetishes in an argument about a f*cking game mechanic.

 

This is what Amid mean with change your damn attitude. 

I wasn't attacking him at all; there were no negative implications about what I said.

 

I literally addressed him as my furry fetishistic friend.

 

In fact, I've got a couple fetishes of my own. What's wrong with that? If you think being sexually attracted to something or pointing out some random fetish is negative, then maybe you are the one with a bit of a problem.

 

It also has a really nice ring to it. I couldn't not throw it in there. Say it out loud a couple of times!

[ticklemyiguana]

I wasn't attacking him at all; there were no negative implications about what I said.

 

I literally addressed him as my furry fetishistic friend.

 

In fact, I've got a couple fetishes of my own. What's wrong with that? If you think being sexually attracted to something or pointing out some random fetish is negative, then maybe you are the one with a bit of a problem.

 

It also has a really nice ring to it. I couldn't not throw it in there. Say it out loud a couple of times!

 

For the sake of not turning this single point into another page or two and attempting to moderate it, I did not interpret Meat's reply in a derogatory manner based on his profile picture history and the discussions surrounding it, rather more of how I might use the term "galloot".

 

That being said, I do not believe the person you were addressing would have been aware of that, and he or she may certainly have taken it in an offensive manner, and it is unlikely many people thought into it more than Aregon did.

 

No harm, no foul. Settled?

[ticklemyiguana]

Not gonna lie, that sounds kind of awkward.

[6ixxer]

ATX22, on 28 Sept 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:ATX22, on 28 Sept 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Coop game modes are basically the casual modes for Hawken.  If I just want to unwind, have a little fun, and leave when I feel like it without causing others to scream about rage quitting, I play the coop game modes.  No smurfs to deal with, no one barking orders over team chat, no 2K+ MMR people obliterating me if I so much as leave spawn, or people screaming about how their entire team sucks, just good old shoot anything that moves game mode where you can play a round or two and leave when you feel like it.

^this.

 

And he said new players. New players *should* play a coop TDM to get used to the game rather than leaving in 3 days.

Now if you are lvl 30, you've been around long enough that coop TDM should be where you go for a HC bonus daily or because there's no suitable TDM running.

 

That's how it is for me anyway.

 

If playing coop retains players then we need more of it. Those new players will eventually spread into other game modes and then matchmaker will have more to work with.

Edited by 6ixxer, 28 September 2015 - 06:11 PM.

[DieselCat]

This mentality is what's going to kill the game, not the smurfs or the MMR restrictions. It's foolish to even attempt to measure the communities' intention knowing full well that our population continues to dwindle.

 

It's also absurd to even suggest the idea that those skilled enough should lower their respective skill level all in the name of fair play. It's not even remotely their problem that you haven't mastered the game�let alone attempt to improve yourselves. Veterans will never have the responsibility to "improve" (as in, a population increase) our player base. That form of action is left for the developers�you know, the ones who make the game? That being said, most vets are certainly pushing for an engaging and healthy competitive scene; but even then this only affects a small percentage of the player base.

 

[DieselCat]

Derpy makes a good point about changing your play style when you know you're in a room full of people you'll smash. I'll do it when people announce they just started playing. Dial it back, give them a chance to dodge around a little bit to get the feel, don't go straight money shot every other shot. In other words give them a chance, at any time you can turn up the heat and change the tide of battle of it starts going south on you. This might help them as they learn and it might help you practice your dodging a bit. Just a thought.

 

Finally .... a voice of reason.

 

Thxxx Money 

 

Yeah, don't play assault when smurfing, I don't see the point. And don't reply to me : "It's my main, a smiple mech for a simple person".

 

http://i.imgur.com/0FV2mgs.jpg

 

*+

[DieselCat]

How is showing a bit of humility absurd? It's more absurd to shun those who are new, who's voices are often never heard just because they lack natural skill. To even assume the responsibility of helping increase the player base is entirely left up to the developers is absurd. Let me ask you a few quick questions.

 

Who do the new players turn to for advice?

 

Who do the new players look to for inspiration?

 

Who's in more contact with new players, Us as a community, or the devs?

 

What's the point in pushing for competitive play if you have what? 50 people? 100? 200?

 

I get your all die hard on competitive play, I get that, but if we the community don't foster the children(new players). Then your dreams of diverse competitive play will never happen. Your over desire for competitive play is what's choking the community, I may be stepping on toes here by saying this but. Let's face it, you and I along with everybody else here knows, the size of our current community isn't gonna support it for very long. I know you desire it, crave it, but unless we attempt to help the unskilled, the new, the weak, whatever you wish to call them on that mighty imaginary throne of yours as you sit on high, then the competitive lifestyle will never come to fruition.

 

+1 ......well said Derpy

[Aregon]

*sits and looks at hooves* But dear sir, I have hooves not feet silly!

 

Oh good. For a moment there I was in danger of remotely considering Aregon's position.

Thanks mate means a lot you go bro

[phed]

[kaiserschmarrn_]

My dearest suck-up Amid,

 

No amount of hall monitoring, appealing to the devs, or that disgusting thing you call 'maturity' will break the true and strong bond of love that based god lemon and I intimately share.

[Aregon]

My dearest suck-up Amid,

 

No amount of hall monitoring, appealing to the devs, or that disgusting thing you call 'maturity' will break the true and strong bond of love that based god lemon and I intimately share.

Nah its rape

[DieselCat]

Jesus..this is all becoming such BS............

 

*+

[maxajcd]

I am around 1500 mmr, have maybe 80 hrs in game and can say that it is kinda sad that the higher mmr players are forced down into much lower games because there aren't enough people online. Ive played my fair share with kaiser and after a couple of games, although its good to have a challenge, i get a bit salty. Even when you know that its good to play against good players and it will make you better, in the end you still get totally obliterated. I can see why people go into bot matches to avoid super high skill players and its honestly a shame with no good fix because everyone deserves to be able to play. I should maybe add that i know kaiser irl and he has basically taught me all i know about hawken.

Edited by maxajcd, 28 September 2015 - 10:32 PM.

[phed]

i like bot tdm because it's all like:

 

 

and nobody cares.

[ticklemyiguana]

My dearest suck-up Amid,

 

No amount of hall monitoring, appealing to the devs, or that disgusting thing you call 'maturity' will break the true and strong bond of love that based god lemon and I intimately share.

To be fair, Amid and I literally share an email address. We're basically roommates.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Dear mods deleting my posts,

 

You will never break the bond of love tickle and I share so intimately.

[Aregon]

Dear mods deleting my posts,

 

You will never break the bond of love tickle and I share so intimately.

Talking about developer activities without permission is against the laws.

 

*report intensifies*

[TheButtSatisfier]

This thread has taught me that you can stop a trainwreck of a conversation by just injecting some sexual tension. I plan to test this in other threads by writing pornographically-themed fanfic of the thread participants and slowly increase the depravity and detail until the posts start getting removed. Then we'll know what the limits are, and soon this entire forum will be shitty threads which suddenly transform to terrible Hawken fanfic.

[Kopra]

This thread has taught me that you can stop a trainwreck of a conversation by just injecting some sexual tension. I plan to test this in other threads by writing pornographically-themed fanfic of the thread participants and slowly increase the depravity and detail until the posts start getting removed. Then we'll know what the limits are, and soon this entire forum will be shitty threads which suddenly transform to terrible Hawken fanfic.

 

My Heat Cannon is already charging up.

[Aregon]

My Heat Cannon is already charging up.

Trying to find that mexican heat cannon meme.

[MomOw]

Trying to find that mexican heat cannon meme.

 

You mean something like that ?

 

[Amidatelion]

This thread has taught me that you can stop a trainwreck of a conversation by just injecting some sexual tension. I plan to test this in other threads by writing pornographically-themed fanfic of the thread participants and slowly increase the depravity and detail until the posts start getting removed. Then we'll know what the limits are, and soon this entire forum will be shitty threads which suddenly transform to terrible Hawken fanfic.

Yeah I'll see that smut threat.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

And what? Raise it?

[Amidatelion]

And what? Raise it?

No, I see his threat to until the next round, wherein he either checks, delivers or raises, as can I. Should he deliver, I will as well, until the game is up.

By which I mean we get Tiggs'd.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Talking about developer activities without permission is against the laws.

 

*report intensifies*

I hope this is a joke.

[Aregon]

I hope this is a joke.

On old forums, nope it wasn`t. What a mod did to your post was not to be told to the public.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

On old forums, nope it wasn`t. What a mod did to your post was not to be told to the public.

everyone else can see though...

[Grizzled]

When you play against players who are better than you, you gradually see surprising results. For example, your game begins to improve. Eventually you can compete with those who were consistenty defeating you. This is a highly satisfying result and perhaps why perseverance has long been praised as an essential part of a virtuous character.

 

But if you avoid competition with your betters, eventually your skills stagnate. Your peers improve, while you remain at the same skill level at best. This leads to dissatisfaction and eventually behaviors described by "crybaby" and "whiner" and other perhaps juvenile but nonetheless apt words.

 

 

Some of us will never get any better, its a sad fact, but geography, ping, physical well-being and our rigs all factor into the game as well. Some of us have peaked, we play at our level and cannot get better. To have some high MMR player come through the server we are playing and take advantage, and then try to say that its for our betterment is a fallacy. It's justification fuzzy bunny. I feel that when you play that far under your MMR and unbalance other MMR games you are effectively cheating, you are purposefully gaming the balance for your enjoyment over others.

 

Don't try to tell me there are no other games you can get into either, the other night I was playing with 6 god forsaken smurfs, if they had been playing their mains they could have been in a game. 

[Hyginos]

I kinda wish there was public match history so we could figure out if the vocal anti-smurf people are actually playing with smurfs every game or if they just assume everyone doing well is a top 100 player who gets off on pubstomping.