136 replies to this topic

[Pleasure_Mortar]

Over the last few weeks I encountered a new to me kind of cheater. 

Players that have 50-90 hours playtime a negative KDR on all mechs and suddenly score 100+200 points above the best players in the lobby.

[LaurenEmily]

Over the last few weeks I encountered a new to me kind of cheater. 
Players that have 50-90 hours playtime a negative KDR on all mechs and suddenly score 100+200 points above the best players in the lobby.

What if they just had a good run ? Even beginners sometimes have very good matches where everything goes their way, i remember this very well from my first hours of playing.. Could be just smurf accounts too..

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Over the last few weeks I encountered a new to me kind of cheater.
Players that have 50-90 hours playtime a negative KDR on all mechs and suddenly score 100+200 points above the best players in the lobby.

Could this be the fuzzy bunny bonus? It's significant and could explain what you're seeing here

[n3onfx]

Score is a really shitty way to use as a proof of hacking, as people said there's just too much variables going into it. If he's not aimbotting, you can't really see anything that proves someone is hacking.

 

I've got my suspicions on 2-3 accounts that I'm pretty sure belong to the same person and ALWAYS know where everybody is, boosting straight to a cloaked pred behind a wall halfway across the map without hesitation, always dodging out of corners already firing at your exact position no matter where you stand behind it, no matter how far. Always going out of repair and running away the opposite side before you appear on their screen, and from too far to hear anything.

 

But, nothing to prove it with. Apart from snappers, you can't prove stuff like that without an active cheat detection system or observing.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

After 50 hours there's no more bonus. Having a good run is one thing, but not like this.

Maybe I need to clarify, I'm not basing my assumptions only on there score. Their profile just confirms the way the behave in game, they don't now how to move, dodge etc., it just looked like a regular profile of someone who is unexperienced, just accuracy and the ability to track every dodge stands out and is reflected in their score. I'm kinda hesitant when it comes to hacusations, but in those cases there was something seriously wrong.

[SS396]

I'm not interested in having this debate again, I think we've established by now that neither of our opinions are changing.

I agree that ideally lobbies should have a tight mmr spread, I just don't think a forced mmr lock is the way to do it.

How can you get a tight mmr spread in a match if you don't enforce a lock limiting MMR differential between players?

We've had plenty of time to see the effects of removing the MMR lock on games, and what exactly did it solve? How did it make the game better for everyone except the few at the ends of the bell curve in MMR. Did it eradicate and solve the problem of smurfing? Did it solve mid game rage quitters? Did it create more active lobbies?

Can you explain to me how one team getting the highest MMR player and the lowest MMR player creates a balanced team to fight against the opposite team that doesn't have a huge 1000 MMR differential between 2 players?

Honestly the allowance of 1000 MMR differential in every match has been the worst change this game has made since the beginning.

[Hyginos]

Honestly the allowance of 1000 MMR differential in every match has been the worst change this game has made since the beginning.

 

That might be a bit of an exaggeration, considering that would put it in the same league as rentals, consumable countermeasures, 7(?) second EMPs, and *shudders* the Ascension patch. Not to mention of course the period during which matchmaking was level based only.

 

I think the 1000 MMR spread is a passable bandaid until we have enough population to support a tighter lock, a different matchmaking organisation such as level/mmr segregated servers, or (ideally) both.

[Pumapaw]

By the way would firing a tow through a building be considered a cheat?

And take out 585 hit points with one shot?

Yeah except that's not possible

It happened yesterday to me.

[SS396]

That might be a bit of an exaggeration, considering that would put it in the same league as rentals, consumable countermeasures, 7(?) second EMPs, and *shudders* the Ascension patch. Not to mention of course the period during which matchmaking was level based only.

Its not an exaggeration at all, its a simple fact. And it is very much in the same category as all those travesties and I say its the worst because the total number of people affected.

Josh has the numbers, all we need to do is see some of those pretty graphs from before the 1000 mmr spread, and after. Did that change increase the new players 3 day average stay before they decided it wasn't a very fun game and found something else to play? The 1000 MMR spread differential makes the game unfun for high tiers that don't want to get stuck with noobs on their team and lose, and noobs that don't want to get beat down by high tiers and lose.

[crockrocket]

By the way would firing a tow through a building be considered a cheat?

And take out 585 hit points with one shot?
It happened yesterday to me.

I'd chalk that up to lag. I was in that same server for about 3 hours and didn't see any funny business from anyone.

[ATX22]

One advantage to having anti-cheat built into Hawken, an actual working one, would be peace of mind since trust in online gaming can be hard to come by and easy to lose.  Still, while banning is completely useless in Hawken, simply having an anti-cheat in place would only go so far.

[coldform]

Doesn't good cheat detecting require changes to the client? If so, why don't we wait for the devs to do more than server side configuration changes?

I keep saying it, over and over...

Just wait for a patch. Keep playing. Also, keep posting what happens to you, but be sure to back it up with a support ticket.

Right now, I'm a lone Dev for another group, and even with the teeny playerbase that we have, I still get a crap load of tickets, And I still read and investigate every one of them. Most of them can be explained away, but some tickets have shown me problems I never would have thought possible if someone hadn't shown me.

I have now taken the exact same stance with my playerbase as reloaded has with us. Some people, all the time...

[necroq]

Josh,

Please consider anti-cheat as a development priority. 

 

Thanks,

 

Luna

there is DEVELOPMENT?

i hope you are joking

[ATX22]

Doesn't good cheat detecting require changes to the client? If so, why don't we wait for the devs to do more than server side configuration changes?

I keep saying it, over and over...

Just wait for a patch. Keep playing. Also, keep posting what happens to you, but be sure to back it up with a support ticket.

Right now, I'm a lone Dev for another group, and even with the teeny playerbase that we have, I still get a crap load of tickets, And I still read and investigate every one of them. Most of them can be explained away, but some tickets have shown me problems I never would have thought possible if someone hadn't shown me.

I have now taken the exact same stance with my playerbase as reloaded has with us. Some people, all the time...

 

But what good would cheat detection do in Hawken while a detected cheater is one new email and Hawken account away from getting right back into the game?  There's no progression in this game to speak of, you start out with one of the best mechs and there's no end-game content that you're working for.  In the Hawken that we have today, cheat detection / banning is no more than a minor inconvenience and provides cheat programmers with the means to continually test their cheats and make them undetectable (unless Reloaded wants to spend a lot of time continually updating Hawken's cheat detection).

[coldform]

It the client is detecting cheats, then it won't even let you play the moment it detects the cheat. Make all the accounts you want, you turn on the cheat, you get locked out.

Until that detection is thwarted, but that's he cycle of these things. Maybe - just maybe - the next iteration of the client comes along soon enough to mitigate the difference...

So... keep waiting. And keep playing.

[StubbornPuppet]

At this point in the game for Hawken, an anti-cheat detection which recognized the few current cheat programs available for it... would probably work just fine.  The people (and I call them that loosely) who write these cheat programs don't often come back to re-engineer them for legacy games.  They are looking to sell the cheatware for money... and if there isn't enough money in it to justify their time, they aren't going to mess with it.

[ATX22]

It the client is detecting cheats, then it won't even let you play the moment it detects the cheat. Make all the accounts you want, you turn on the cheat, you get locked out.

Until that detection is thwarted, but that's he cycle of these things. Maybe - just maybe - the next iteration of the client comes along soon enough to mitigate the difference...

So... keep waiting. And keep playing.

 

In the past.. in other games, when cheats were detected, the cheat authors would find out and they'd tweak their cheat software so that the current anti-cheat wouldn't detect it anymore.  It was a constant cat and mouse game trying to detect who was cheating and server admins were constantly updating their server side cheat detection software and at times forcing client side cheat detection software updates.  It was a pain in the *** to manage, and people would complain about it all the time.  Some of the early days of Punkbuster comes to mind for example, before VAC.. good old WON days... 

 

I think even VAC uses delayed banning to combat this.  Still, if Reloaded adds on anti-cheat to Hawken, I hope that they do something to make any bans a person gets MEAN something.

 

 

At this point in the game for Hawken, an anti-cheat detection which recognized the few current cheat programs available for it... would probably work just fine.  The people (and I call them that loosely) who write these cheat programs don't often come back to re-engineer them for legacy games.  They are looking to sell the cheatware for money... and if there isn't enough money in it to justify their time, they aren't going to mess with it.

 

Shouldn't have to bank on Hawken remaining completely obscure and shunned though.. you're probably right that it wouldn't be worth their time, unless Reloaded can pull this game back from the brink.

Edited by ATX22, 31 December 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[GalaxyRadio]

Is it possible to see somewhere, if a person is still playing after report or not? 

 

It seems my reports worked, cause i didn't saw for a week the players i reported, maybe they actually did something.

 

Galaxy Radio

[ATX22]

Is it possible to see somewhere, if a person is still playing after report or not? 

 

It seems my reports worked, cause i didn't saw for a week the players i reported, maybe they actually did something.

 

Galaxy Radio

 

If you remember the name the player used, you can use http://hawken.herokuapp.com/user/

 

Just slap the player name on the end of that URL, if they haven't set their profile to private and you see the time played stat increase then they're still playing.

[DemitronPrime]

By the way would firing a tow through a building be considered a cheat?

 

And take out 585 hit points with one shot?

 Umm yeah that is fairly obviously cheating....

 

 

P.S

 

Here is a video of a guy I THINK may have been one of these " CLEVER " Cheaters that use partial bits and smoothing aimbot, maybe even pred vision on a non pred mech possibly

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=7Rn9Hy9hZlI

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

When the Moon is in the 7th House, and Jupiter aligns with Mars,

Then the Mods will rule the Forums

And threads disappear into the stars!

[StubbornPuppet]

 Umm yeah that is fairly obviously cheating....

 

 

P.S

 

Here is a video of a guy I THINK may have been one of these " CLEVER " Cheaters that use partial bits and smoothing aimbot, maybe even pred vision on a non pred mech possibly

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=7Rn9Hy9hZlI

I think there's something wrong with your video... cuz it's still 'processing' a day later.

[ATX22]

I think there's something wrong with your video... cuz it's still 'processing' a day later.

Because HAX.

[mittens800]

I play West Coast NA.  Been playing since pre-steam.

 

I still cannot understand the haccusations... where are all these aimbots?  

There were two high profile hackers I know of, that's it.  Those accounts were banned.

I've run across a few obvious aim bots, but that's like 0.5% of all matches.

 

I played so much Hawken but it's getting old now.  Hard to revamp an FPS without updating the engine at this point.

I still think it's fun and a great game but I can't blame others for not wanting to get into it at this point.

Hoping for the best though!

[TheButtSatisfier]

I played so much Hawken but it's getting old now.  Hard to revamp an FPS without updating the engine at this point.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a laundry list of things that can be done to this game that would breathe new life into it without having to significantly update the engine.

 

If hacking reports aren't being taken seriously by Reloaded then that's disappointing. Ideally there'd be some sort of communication regarding review status and conclusions, and you could probably crowdsource the reviewing process for cheap if they considered it a high priority. Then again, if you're only concerned about dollars and cents, then they may not view hackers/cheaters/exploiters to be a significant threat to their revenue stream given Hawken's current state.

 

Everything I've just written is wild speculation, of course.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 05 January 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I'm pretty sure there's a laundry list of things that can be done to this game that would breathe new life into it without having to significantly update the engine.

 

If hacking reports aren't being taken seriously by Reloaded then that's disappointing. Ideally there'd be some sort of communication regarding review status and conclusions, and you could probably crowdsource the reviewing process for cheap if they considered it a high priority. Then again, if you're only concerned about dollars and cents, then they may not view hackers/cheaters/exploiters to be a significant threat to their revenue stream given Hawken's current state.

 

Everything I've just written is wild speculation, of course.

 

I think it's pretty much spot on speculation

[DallasCreeper]

I remember someone on a server with me got into the coding and screwed around. he successfully got his zerker to have unlimited ability, removed the turning cap(though this might have been true since he was using an Xbox controller) and he got his scout unlimited fuel. he wouldn't tell us how he did but it was fuzzy bunny hilarious. Without the turning cap, his brawler looked like it was having a seizure!

Spoiler

the he is a she and the she is Sassaflash

Edited by DallasCreeper, 17 January 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[gArphEus]

Faced a guy playing a standart assault a few minutes ago, that achieved a score of over 750 - in LESS than 3 minutes playtime! I managed 2 kill him with an EOC longshot, so he clearly wasn't indestructable, but ALL of his shots were perfect hits, and his speed ridiculously fast. I also noticed, he was able 2 dodge without cooldown time - even in the air. Funny thing was, he didn't had an air compressor in his loadout! No 3 slot internals at all. His movement showed a lot experience and combat knowledge, but against his "performance" even the top ten EU professionals looked like absolute beginners blindfolded. 2 those here that still believe there r no cheaters among us, i commend 2 just open their eyes and wake up. It seems, even some of the better players tend 2 use cheatware 4 even moa "success".

 

BTW - the 2nd best player of both teams had a score of only 140+ the same time. No single player showed a conspicuos high ping, and the gameplay on the server was relatively smooth - no lag, no teleporting, no hitreg issues. 

[StubbornPuppet]

On this topic, it seems like everyone should probably just save their breath.  Not one single person has ever changed their opinion on this topic and they never will.  We humans are inherently bound to our ego - once we take a side on anything, we will defend it to the bitter end and no amount of evidence one way or the other will ever sway us.  We see what we want to see...

[Hyginos]

On this topic, it seems like everyone should probably just save their breath.  Not one single person has ever changed their opinion on this topic and they never will.  We humans are inherently bound to our ego - once we take a side on anything, we will defend it to the bitter end and no amount of evidence one way or the other will ever sway us.  We see what we want to see...

 

The opinions of the people in the thread are irrelevant. The important thing is that the discussion is visible so the Devs know that the community cares about the topic.

[ATX22]

The opinions of the people in the thread are irrelevant. The important thing is that the discussion is visible so the Devs know that the community cares about the topic.

 

May only matter if Reloaded sees hacking negatively impact the Hawken player base to the point that they should actually care from a financial standpoint.  These guys are not working for free, this game and their efforts are driven by money, that's the whole point of F2P, to milk gamers for as much $$ as possible for as long as possible.

[DieselCat]

I just spent $30 for some MC 

[Kamile]

I remember someone on a server with me got into the coding and screwed around. he successfully got his zerker to have unlimited ability, removed the turning cap(though this might have been true since he was using an Xbox controller) and he got his scout unlimited fuel. he wouldn't tell us how he did but it was fuzzy bunny hilarious. Without the turning cap, his brawler looked like it was having a seizure!

Spoiler

the he is a she and the she is Sassaflash

 

Is this basically a Sassaflash hacker confirmed call out post?! Was this already known and I'm just finding out? We need confirmation on this. I hope it's not true but it just sounds like the attention seeking things we've seen before.

Idk how to celebrate the hilarity of this..
 

Edited by Kamile, 19 January 2016 - 05:54 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Id have to see some proof before I'd believe Runa is cheating.
Or that Hawken was bought for ~$30,000.00.

Edited by CraftyDus, 19 January 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[kinhdoanh10001]

great

Play Tiny Tanks now

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Shi-it.

First, Runa is many things - flashier than me amongst them - but I'm reasonably satisfied, like Dus, that she's not hacking stats.

Second... *I* could have bought Hawken and started development for that price. If I had only known.... "Kids, you'll have to join the army for the GI bill, I'm spending your college fund"

[StubbornPuppet]

Runa may not use 'hacks', but she is a cheater and exploiter - constantly getting outside of map boundaries and knowing spots where one can stand and kill other players from behind walls where opponents cannot shoot back.  She's been doing this since the very first time I encountered her back in closed beta.

[PoopSlinger]

Crafty, look at the video posted to the subreddit. Its one of runa's alts going super saiyin.

[CraftyDus]

ugh, I'm thoroughly disgusted

[m0bieduck]

I just played on a 2000 mmr alt account and there was a lot of haccusations. Don't know why, the person didnt look to be that good