136 replies to this topic

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Josh,

Please consider anti-cheat as a development priority. 

 

Thanks,

 

Luna

[DerMax]

Because a gaming industry veteran cannot possibly know that. No way. Yep. Uh-huh. Totes.

 

/s

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

REJOICE DEAR ROBROS!! FOR THE ALL MIGHTY EOC SHALL BATHE CHEATERS IN THE WRATH OF THE BLINKING RED LIGHT ! PUT DOWN YOUR SMGs, YOUR SNIPER RIFLES - EQUIP THE GLORIOUS EOC - AND BRING EXPLOITERS TO THEIR ROBOTIC KNEES !!! FOR LOOO THE GREAT PUCK IS WISE AND UNMERCIFUL TO THE BOT ! THE CULT OF EOC ALWAYS PREVAILS!!! MUAHAHAHA

[TAZ_]

No one can't stop cheater...

kill them before they lay an egg..

[Aelita]

Just read through all the reviews on Steam. From all the negative Reviews it shines out that balance issues and cheaters are the biggest let down. I am sure ze Josh knows. God i hope he knows.

[crockrocket]

REJOICE DEAR ROBROS!! FOR THE ALL MIGHTY EOC SHALL BATHE CHEATERS IN THE WRATH OF THE BLINKING RED LIGHT ! PUT DOWN YOUR SMGs, YOUR SNIPER RIFLES - EQUIP THE GLORIOUS EOC - AND BRING EXPLOITERS TO THEIR ROBOTIC KNEES !!! FOR LOOO THE GREAT PUCK IS WISE AND UNMERCIFUL TO THE BOT ! THE CULT OF EOC ALWAYS PREVAILS!!! MUAHAHAHA

Careful now, you're gonna get hit with the poopslinga bat

[nepacaka]

cheaters have 3 cathegory
1 - mostly cheaters live in low-tier lobby, they create new account and kill some nubs. not lvling account and always create smurf

2 - cheaters who play in higher lobby, they have many mech on account and use stupid cheats like aimbot, when people see it, they actually can focus cheater a easily kill it 6vs1. just for lulz

3 - clever cheater. who use cheat very accurate. but everyone can mistake. then they have a "cheater label" and players start offense "it" in battle.

here also exist a 4th group. ppl who actually not use cheats, but nubs always blame you in cheats without any prove :D

 

most dangerous are cheaters from 1st group. because nubs can't counter cheaters. if cheater play in high-tier lobby he can meet enemy group which have 6 C-class and everyone start focus him, because their understand that he use cheats, and just start kill him 6vs1. hawken burst weapons actually can takedown cheaters, but most of problem not in cheater (good player can beat him with flak, or eoc, etc. in 1vs1), but his teammates can beat you while you trying takedown a cheater :P)

 

hawken cheats based on unreal 2007, i actually don't know, exist anti-cheat for U3 or no, but probably hawken should have the same anti-cheat like U3 have (sure, if it exist).

baba-ji cheater solution company = solved problem with smurfs (made account verification, and other the-mail.ing which required more time to create new acc), if player have a video with 100% speed hack/aimbot and send it to support, ban him without any question. obviously, if you ban cheater, he create new acc. but if you ban him several times, they probably lose interest to game, because he need everytime create new e-mail, making new acc, verification it, etc. after 5-6 times they probably don't want create another mail (cuz he know that he will be banned again)

 

baba-ji cheater solution required:
1) conscious and active players
2) conscious and active  tech-support

3) demo-record mode (when you can use fps-cam from cheating eyes and see how he play to have a 100% aimbot solution)
maybe all of this just impossible, have no idea how it working :C

Edited by nepacaka, 26 December 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[GalaxyRadio]

You forgot 1 group.

 

- using Aimbot only in middle/far distance (Sniper/Pred) 

- use only wallhack/2D map, prediction lines but not aimbot

- use smoothing aimbot that can't snap around from mech to mech, you can't tell by videofootage

- damage boost/slightly speedhack/infinite fuel/more def if HP gets low

 

Those are hackers you can't catch with a video.

 

And i reported 4-5 hackers with video evidence and no one of them got banned, even spelling sometimes in chat they are using hacks, or some people use hacks cause other do the same and they don't get handycapped themself not using it.

 

Dev Team dosn't care about hackers. Nobody gets banned.

 

Galaxy Radio

[Cytor]

You forgot 1 group.

 

- using Aimbot only in middle/far distance (Sniper/Pred) 

- use only wallhack/2D map, prediction lines but not aimbot

- use smoothing aimbot that can't snap around from mech to mech, you can't tell by videofootage

- damage boost/slightly speedhack/infinite fuel/more def if HP gets low

 

Those are hackers you can't catch with a video.

 

And i reported 4-5 hackers with video evidence and no one of them got banned, even spelling sometimes in chat they are using hacks, or some people use hacks cause other do the same and they don't get handycapped themself not using it.

 

Dev Team dosn't care about hackers. Nobody gets banned.

 

Galaxy Radio

 

damage is server sided, it's impossible to alter the values.

 

i've submitted numerous reports, and while their policy is to not reveal the outcome, i know what the outcome was based on the fact that the particular account has hence never seen the light of day..

[GalaxyRadio]

I did some reports with Videofootage where you can see the hacker is snapping from target to target instantly, you can't get better objective footage thgen this (cause stupid hacker).

 

Case got solved, next day i see that hacker back in game. 

 

From my point, i can't see any action againts hackers so far.

[BlackWarGreymon]

If I were an optimistic person, I'd say wait until development starts up again and we see patches/updates, and the game starts getting advertising and the player base starts to grow. Then, with some kind of real income being generated, the dev team will be able to have dedicated staff to deal with account issues, including dealing with reports of cheaters and hackers ( and exploiters... ).

This will take time of course, but by all means post your videos of cheaters like a few other guys are doing- public shaming tends to prompt the devs to take action more quickly than just filing reports ( expect the thread and video to vanish from the forum, along with the cheater hopefully... ).

[LRod]

I'm with Galaxy; it's getting worse -  maybe not quite to the same level as it was during The Great Silence, but it is definitely building in frequency. 

[nepacaka]

- damage boost/slightly speedhack/infinite fuel/more def if HP gets low

 

i'm not sure that some sort of this is exist.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I'd like to chime in cheating is getting worse. Went from playing with a cheater once every week or even less to almost daily encounters.

I see cheaters still playing that have openly admited to use cheats and who have been reported by multiple players.

Edited by ..., 26 December 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[crockrocket]

I'm still of the mindset that cheating isn't that common. Maybe I'm just bad at noticing it, but I've seen only a handful botters over the year and a half I've been playing.

 

I'm not saying it isn't a problem, and it's certainly something the devs need to take a hardline stance on. I just think it tends to get blown out of proportion (just talking about NA, not gonna speculate about what goes on in other regions).

[Epsilon_Knight]

There are a lot of cheaters.  Even some community veterans have been implicated in the recent past.  Unfortunately it is not difficult for people to understand the concepts of slow aim, trigger bots, or even just ESP without using any aim assist whatsoever.  Only the most careless aim botters set the aim angle to 360 degrees with instant snap.

 

We need robust anti-cheat.

Edited by Epsilon_Knight, 26 December 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[Silverfire]

Admittedly, I've been observing more and more suspicious players. Actions aren't conclusive imo, from what I've seen, but it's definitely something needing addressing. Not that it's an epidemic, but I've been noticing fishy business more often.

[JackVandal]

Im also adding my notice to "stuff that feels wrong", cheating with no snaps that's hard to prove, i have faith the devs know what they are doing, i think it would be interesting to see all the cheats get patched and see what players suddenly drop in skill and/or in game time.

[GreyFa1con]

I've video recorded and filed a ticket on two cheaters in the last week.

 

4 cheaters in total over my 3 months playing.

[HubbaBubba9849]

Spectator mode. That is all.

[MomOw]

What puzzle me most is that I can't feel the difference between playing in laggy servers with high ping players and true snapping / aimboting. And so far the best players I've played with don't cheat (or at least I hope so ^^)

 

So yes cheats are an issue but not as much as :

- laggy servers

- a 2300+MMR player in a scout in a <2K server

- a server full of smurfs (*)

- a troll in a feeding mood

- uneven teams and all it's variations :

quiters

re-joiners (quit and join in the purpose to screw the MM and get an easy win)

a lower skilled player amidst the wolves (and not leaving between matches and keep being stomped, thought I am myself a tryhard sometimes it may ruin the fun of matches that could be balanced otherwise)

a party of lower skilled players in random pub server (which put together get !rekt)

a party of higher skilled players in random pub server (on TS fer maximum stomping)

 

I've seen a botter chase once, all his teammates pursuing him with EMP, that was boring as hell past the first match. I get why they did that but it didn't make him leave.

I think that the best way to counter cheaters is to play on private servers :-/

 

(*) a smurf is an account below level 30 and with MMR lower than the player main MMR. Underdog peanuts screw the scores and too low MMR screw the MM. Beside that any account with MMR consistent with player skill and if possible lvl > 30 are OK for me.

[spr1nterJam]

GalaxyRadio paste some vids here

because you often mistaken high MMR player as ones

[nilesy]

You forgot 1 group.

 

- using Aimbot only in middle/far distance (Sniper/Pred) 

- use only wallhack/2D map, prediction lines but not aimbot

- use smoothing aimbot that can't snap around from mech to mech, you can't tell by videofootage

- damage boost/slightly speedhack/infinite fuel/more def if HP gets low

 

Those are hackers you can't catch with a video.

 

And i reported 4-5 hackers with video evidence and no one of them got banned, even spelling sometimes in chat they are using hacks, or some people use hacks cause other do the same and they don't get handycapped themself not using it.

 

Dev Team dosn't care about hackers. Nobody gets banned.

 

Galaxy Radio

 

"damage boost" this proves you don't know what you are talking about, that's why I never listen to you in game, every game I've been in with you, all you do is hacuse, no matter who the player is, if they do better than you you start cryin hax hax hax.

 

Can't take you seriously, you cry wolf way too often.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

There are a lot of cheaters.  Even some community veterans have been implicated in the recent past.  Unfortunately it is not difficult for people to understand the concepts of slow aim, trigger bots, or even just ESP without using any aim assist whatsoever.  Only the most careless aim botters set the aim angle to 360 degrees with instant snap.

 

We need robust anti-cheat.

 

This.  I am noticing a growing trend in North America, and I am simply asking Cap'n Josh & Co to include it with their first efforts.

[gArphEus]

LOL! Lunatic, in my last thread you asked me, why i'm not able to anticipate good enough to down these op Scout 'n Zerker mobs, dominating some EU servers by exploiting the lag they induce, by moving lightfast, while you can predict their movement and kill them with ease. I replied, in fact i CAN - as long as i'm able to SEE them, but i told you, they are waaay toooo fast, and i blamed it on the crappy servers. I was unwilling to believe it could be some real cheaters, because in fact, there ARE some really good Scout- and Zerker-Pilots out there. I also didn't want to start a proofless witch hunt, and now YOU are calling out for CpnJosh's help regarding cheaters?

 

...isn't that a bit absurd??? Is it possible you encountered the same "Great Flying Invincibles" i met? If so, i guess your thinking has cleared then?

 

Well.... i still (want) to believe there are just a few veterans out there, stomping incognito...

 

However - i HAVE recognized a really outstanding "good" player with an endscore of 800 + at the end of the TDM on a EU server recently - with a difference of over 400 to the second best, and there were a lot of decent playing pilots on that server, too. Was a Sharpy - certainly... What a surprising coincidence! He shot me out of the air several times from the other side of Frontline across the whole map, as i was cloaked, and air-boosting / air-dodging full-speed in my Infil. Always perfect Powershot hits. Just splitseconds after i showed up in his FOV. I know some REALLY good Sharpy pilots, but NONE of them has ever scored so incredibly high in all the matches i was in, too, so i am almost 99 % sure, that was a cheater. 

 

Notwithstanding i am far beyond the point to say, HAWKENS overcrowded by cheaters, but i am sure, there ARE more of them among us, as we're all willing to admit - maybe even more than once before. Sometimes it's really hard 2 tell if it's just a smurfing veteran or a very smart cheater dominating a server. The reasons for that are pretty perfect listed by Nov8tr here:

 

https://community.pl...l-with-hackers/

 

I did some researches at the beginning of the "Great Silence", to find proof of the existence of such professional cheatware, because i met a perky player, that claimed proudly to use such in open gamechat , and i was horrified how MANY different commercial cheatware i was able to find in just a single google search!

 

However - i still believe, the main reason why players complain about cheaters is, they simply get stomped by a smurfing veteran - in most cases . Period.

 

We all should keep up and wait for the next patch. Maybe - hopefully - some of the adressed cheater problems get fixed or worked around somehow. IMHO it's much more important to improve the matchmaking by increasing the playerbase enormously - and what's better for luring new or former players into this game by publishing a long awaited update, introducing some new mechs, maps, maybe new gamemodes and - of course - fixes - as announced by good old CpnJosh? He always managed to keep HAWKEN alive, and i believe he'll improve it as well, very soon. I have faith, so should you.

 

Merry X-mas to all, and a happy new HAWKEN.

 

gArphEus

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Gar.

 

I can beat most individual botters in this game, as can many other players too.  Read what Epsilon Knight wrote:

 

There are a lot of cheaters.  Even some community veterans have been implicated in the recent past.  Unfortunately it is not difficult for people to understand the concepts of slow aim, trigger bots, or even just ESP without using any aim assist whatsoever.  Only the most careless aim botters set the aim angle to 360 degrees with instant snap.

 

We need robust anti-cheat.

 

Consider that it may be prevalent enough that several of the community are commenting.  Do you want new players to face four or more in a match?

 

Edited to fix quoting issues

Edited by Lunatic, 27 December 2015 - 09:31 AM.

[Onebullit]

You forgot 1 group.

 

- using Aimbot only in middle/far distance (Sniper/Pred) 

- use only wallhack/2D map, prediction lines but not aimbot

- use smoothing aimbot that can't snap around from mech to mech, you can't tell by videofootage

- damage boost/slightly speedhack/infinite fuel/more def if HP gets low

 

Those are hackers you can't catch with a video.

 

And i reported 4-5 hackers with video evidence and no one of them got banned, even spelling sometimes in chat they are using hacks, or some people use hacks cause other do the same and they don't get handycapped themself not using it.

 

Dev Team dosn't care about hackers. Nobody gets banned.

 

Galaxy Radio

I think you are just a  little bit too paranoid.

[Pumapaw]

All they need to do is eliminate multiple accounts. And tighten the restriction on the game servers on MMR.  But I see no way to do either. To bad they went with the free to play way.

[DieselCat]

What puzzle me most is that I can't feel the difference between playing in laggy servers with high ping players and true snapping / aimboting. And so far the best players I've played with don't cheat (or at least I hope so ^^)

 

So yes cheats are an issue but not as much as :

- laggy servers

- a 2300+MMR player in a scout in a <2K server

- a server full of smurfs (*)

- a troll in a feeding mood

- uneven teams and all it's variations :

quiters

re-joiners (quit and join in the purpose to screw the MM and get an easy win)

a lower skilled player amidst the wolves (and not leaving between matches and keep being stomped, thought I am myself a tryhard sometimes it may ruin the fun of matches that could be balanced otherwise)

a party of lower skilled players in random pub server (which put together get !rekt)

a party of higher skilled players in random pub server (on TS fer maximum stomping)

 

I've seen a botter chase once, all his teammates pursuing him with EMP, that was boring as hell past the first match. I get why they did that but it didn't make him leave.

I think that the best way to counter cheaters is to play on private servers :-/

 

(*) a smurf is an account below level 30 and with MMR lower than the player main MMR. Underdog peanuts screw the scores and too low MMR screw the MM. Beside that any account with MMR consistent with player skill and if possible lvl > 30 are OK for me.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes...agreed...all very valid points here.

 

Oh MY ! ....Yesterday, so much this. Three players of very high skill lvl (match mmr was showing 1500-2450, will refrain from naming)  that were grouped together match after match with always the top 3 scores that were double & triple of the opposing team. Several players were questioning it and the response was predictable.

 

This aside from the other points you mentioned, for me, causes some of the biggest frustration in trying to get some sort of balance in matches with the limited player pool we currently have. It may not happen more often that the other issues mentioned, but when it does is a major PITA. 

 

As far as out and out cheating goes, I believe there will always be the opportunity for people to try and cheat using hacks...but that goes for all video games. Even if there was little to no cheats being used in Hawken, once the dev team is really fully up to speed, it should be mandatory that failsafes be put in place to deter this and all types of cheating behavior.

 

Kill the cheater...Ban the hacker Heretic !   

 

*+

 

Edited by DieselCat, 27 December 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[crockrocket]

And tighten the restriction on the game servers on MMR.

Fck no. It's already too tight. We don't have the population to support an mmr lock, and if we did have the population we wouldn't need it. Ugh. Just no.

[Pumapaw]

Your never going to get a population of players continuing doing what you all do.

[Pumapaw]

By the way would firing a tow through a building be considered a cheat?

 

And take out 585 hit points with one shot?

Edited by Pumapaw, 27 December 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[SS396]

Fck no. It's already too tight. We don't have the population to support an mmr lock, and if we did have the population we wouldn't need it. Ugh. Just no.

A 1000+ mmr spread is too tight? Pla-ease.

I wish you could of played and experienced it when you could get a lobby of 12 players all within a few MMR of each other, those were fun games, now its just who ever gets the player with the highest MMR that joined the match after it just started, that ends up stomping and wins, then everyone leaves.

I don't think you realize what you've said. Yes, the population being low doesn't help things, but there are many ways to separate players still, and bring back the quality of the lobbies. Yes the same players would constantly be playing against the same players most of the time, but at least itd be more balanced than the lameness that it is now.

[crockrocket]

A 1000+ mmr spread is too tight? Pla-ease.

I wish you could of played and experienced it when you could get a lobby of 12 players all within a few MMR of each other, those were fun games, now its just who ever gets the player with the highest MMR that joined the match after it just started, that ends up stomping and wins, then everyone leaves.

I don't think you realize what you've said. Yes, the population being low doesn't help things, but there are many ways to separate players still, and bring back the quality of the lobbies. Yes the same players would constantly be playing against the same players most of the time, but at least itd be more balanced than the lameness that it is now.

I'm not interested in having this debate again, I think we've established by now that neither of our opinions are changing.

I agree that ideally lobbies should have a tight mmr spread, I just don't think a forced mmr lock is the way to do it.

[HHJFTRU]

+1 group (in fact I suspect one particular high MMR player): that uses triggerbot for burst mechs.

[gArphEus]

Gar.

 

I can beat most individual botters in this game, as can many other players too.  Read what Epsilon Knight wrote:

 

 

Consider that it may be prevalent enough that several of the community are commenting.  Do you want new players to face four or more in a match?

 

Edited to fix quoting issues

 

No - u can't. Try to beat a Sharpy that kills u with 1 perfect shot over the whole map 5 times a match, that hides, drops a horizon full of holos and stays out of trouble the rest of time. There aren't only noobish players out there, nor only single loners that use professional cheatware, u can bet on that.

 

I agree with Epsilon Knight to 1000 %, and to you as well. Of course the cheater problem has to be pilloried openly - i was just astounded, it's you of all people to inflame the first torch, considering u was one of those doubting my encounter with the suspicious "Flying Invincibles" just recently. However, your callout is appropriate - it was just unexpected for me. 

 

And... NO! - No new player should suffer the encounter with a mob of dishonourable cheaters. We cannot afford to loose any newcomers, because our playerbase is already far too small, anyway. Fine to see we are concurring in the end.

 

 

I think you are just a  little bit too paranoid.

 

*yawns* ... go, check the link in my first post here, read what Nov8tr posted more than half a year ago, google exactly for "Cheat/Hack/Aimbot for HAWKEN", return to us, and dare to call us "paranoid" again... but i guess, u won't do that anymore after that...

 

Your never going to get a population of players continuing doing what you all do.

 

Of course not. That man is absolute right.

 

By the way would firing a tow through a building be considered a cheat?

 

And take out 585 hit points with one shot?

 

That's far beyond normality for sure, Something very similiar happened to me recently, but in my case it wasn't right through the wall - if so, i didn't notice, but a Sharpy can't take out an undamaged Infil with a single Powershot Slug / Sabot salvo over longest distance, can he? At least not to my experience...

 

 

A 1000+ mmr spread is too tight? Pla-ease.

I wish you could of played and experienced it when you could get a lobby of 12 players all within a few MMR of each other, those were fun games, now its just who ever gets the player with the highest MMR that joined the match after it just started, that ends up stomping and wins, then everyone leaves.

I don't think you realize what you've said. Yes, the population being low doesn't help things, but there are many ways to separate players still, and bring back the quality of the lobbies. Yes the same players would constantly be playing against the same players most of the time, but at least itd be more balanced than the lameness that it is now.

 

THIS - and nothing but THIS - is a perfect description of the majority of matches i joined in the last week. The spread on most servers was ridiculous high, and the outcome of the match was clearly decided after less than third of the playtime usually. We really need a bigger playerbase. A much bigger. Really...

 

Edited for many typos - i am too tired for looking further. Who finds any left, may take 'em... ;)

Edited by gArphEus, 27 December 2015 - 03:57 PM.

[BlackWarGreymon]

If it makes anyone feel better, I often get called a hacker/ aimbotter when I kill someone who is obviously of a much lower skill level- usually when they simply stand still and shoot, without even trying to evade or dodge my shots. Sometimes, I snipe someone who is walking straight towards or away from me, and I get called a botter; it seems a lot of what people think is cheating is simply a large skill gap- an experienced player who knows how to dodge, aim and evade seems like a hacker to someone who can barely figure out how to walk and shoot...

[Onebullit]

*yawns* ... go, check the link in my first post here, read what Nov8tr posted more than half a year ago, google exactly for "Cheat/Hack/Aimbot for HAWKEN", return to us, and dare to call us "paranoid" again... but i guess, u won't do that anymore after that...

 

I play Hawken since 12/12/12 and know it's history quite well.

There are cheaters in every game but many people on the forums act like cheaters are a Hawken problem only.

I know that there are cheats available for Hawken and already saw it btw.  In all those years i have played this game,

there were a handful of times i encountered a real cheater.  Once you have played against a cheater, it's very easy to

get paranoid and call everyone stronger than you one.  That's why, don't get too paranoid.

Edited by Onebullit, 27 December 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[crockrocket]

By the way would firing a tow through a building be considered a cheat?

And take out 585 hit points with one shot?

Yeah except that's not possible

[cbrxx]

Only reason I believe hacks exist is when Fancy SS who don't miss somehow shoot me the moment I respawn just after they killed me.

 

Oh, and G2 raiders that are just too goddamn good to be legit.

Edited by cbrxx, 27 December 2015 - 10:51 PM.