61 replies to this topic

[m0bieduck]

YEeeeeees. Coming back to the game and stuff i am so confused by all the internals. You need to simplify them. I hate to give WoT as an example, but their internals are so much more simple but they all have different functions. Also the buying menu for the interals/expendables whatever theyre called is way too clunky and not ergonomic. there should be boxes for each internal and in those boxes a list of what MK you want. 

[m0bieduck]

IF you guys delete the option to selfrepair, death orbs and healing items, you will ruin the whole balancing of this game instantly in a really really bad way, cause the team with technician would win 100% for sure. And i say this as a techlover, cause i play that mech most of the time.

 

Really bad idea.

 

Galaxy Radio

hey who doesnt like another COD

[HubbaBubba9849]

What if, instead of having it available upon spawn, the tech's green beam could only be used each time after a tech got 2 kills or 4 assists?

And what if tech's ability allowed it to heal 2 teammates at the normal rate instead of increasing the repair rate to a single target?

 

I don't really get why so many folks want to see the tech get nuked. The only big issue with the tech is the green beam, which ties back into my point earlier about reducing the availability of super fast repairs.

[Sylhiri]

 

I don't really get why so many folks want to see the tech get nuked. The only big issue with the tech is the green beam, which ties back into my point earlier about reducing the availability of super fast repairs.

 

The game was not made with the Technician in mind, the design is flawed. It's mechanics just existing means that most things need to be created with the Technician in mind. That's the big problem with our current health situation where any removal or large changes to health items, internals and mechanics require that the Technician be changed to fit the new health changes or the health changes to be balanced around having a Technician. Even the release of new mechs is taken into consideration (or should have been), example being the Incinerator.

 

The technician shouldn't get nuked, it should be designed for Hawken. No other game, just Hawken.

[GalaxyRadio]

The game was not made with the Technician in mind, the design is flawed. It's mechanics just existing means that most things need to be created with the Technician in mind. That's the big problem with our current health situation where any removal or large changes to health items, internals and mechanics require that the Technician be changed to fit the new health changes or the health changes to be balanced around having a Technician. Even the release of new mechs is taken into consideration (or should have been), example being the Incinerator.

 

The technician shouldn't get nuked, it should be designed for Hawken. No other game, just Hawken.

 

I don't have a problem witch a technician, i love that thing as i love support roles in every game in hawken is no exception for it, it works perfectly fine with it, there is always the option to counter another tech with getting yourself 1 in a team, the gamemechanics should just be modified.

 

1. Technician is fine as it is right now, maybe just "minor" changes needed

2. it shouldn't be possible that everyone can use the same mechs as everyone can (with goal in mind for a well balanced team)

3. matches don't start with full teams

4. EVERY MECH AND INTERNAL&ITEMS MUST BE accesable from beginning, so that everyone can play what they want (like in overwatch for example)

6. we need IN THE GAME some very short videos explaining the Pro&Cons for every mech

7. we need IN THE GAME some short videos to explain how the different mode works

8. it would be nice, if we can get rid of those coop bots dextruction stuff, cause they cut off possibly player for human vs human matches, the only thing that should stay is human vs bots matches for training only to test new mechs/internals/items

9. server brwoser should be managed within PINGRELATED not regions, because of that we lost already some nice server, where us&eu player were able to play together, but noone did, cause they stayed in US or EU Regions, so server were removed

 

We have MUCH more general problem in the game then minor issues you are talking about, that are

 

- Playerbase

- Balancing

- new Maps/Mechs/Weapons/Items/Internals/Cosmic Stuff

- Explanation for every mode/weapon/mech in short videos

- marketing marketing marketing marketing marketing

- hacker/glitcher/smurfs/trolls

- more support mechs like technician to mix stuff better together

 

Right now there is not much to talk about, because we have to wait for reloaded to make some steps forward, otherwise its completly waste of time here.

 

Galaxy Radio

Edited by GalaxyRadio, 27 January 2016 - 05:12 AM.

[Hyginos]

The technician shouldn't get nuked, it should be designed for Hawken. No other game, just Hawken.

 

Care to elaborate? It's not clear to me what this would entail.

 

I, for one, think tech is mostly fine. Much like the incinerator, it has only gotten weaker as players have slowly added to the list of things that can be used to counter it.

[DallasCreeper]

 list of things that can be used to counter it.

1. Burst

2. Sneakiness

3. Vulcan

4. Predator

5. Raider

6. G2 Raider

7. Infiltrator

8. Scout

9. EMP

10. Bullets

NOTE: List is not in order of effectiveness against Techs, but all are effective against Techs

ANOTHER NOTE: Feel free to expand this list.

Edited by DallasCreeper, 27 January 2016 - 07:16 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

 

 

1. Technician is fine as it is right now, maybe just "minor" changes needed

 

2. it shouldn't be possible that everyone can use the same mechs as everyone can (with goal in mind for a well balanced team)

 

4. EVERY MECH AND INTERNAL&ITEMS MUST BE accesable from beginning, so that everyone can play what they want (like in overwatch for example)

 

 

I've got to disagree with those three points.

 

1. The Technician is not "fine".  The biggest problem with it is that it receives way, way too much XP for healing.  Any match with a tech... the Tech is almost guaranteed to be at the top of the podium.  And the fact that, in high MMR matches, especially TDM, if one team chooses a Tech and the other doesn't, the team with the Tech is almost always the winner.  It needs some nerfs in some aspects... and it needs some buffs in other to offset those.  It can be a better mech, one that players can appreciate without it being OP, UP or hated.

 

2. If you make it so that nobody can choose the same mech as another player on their team, you are screwing players who only have a few mechs or who are trying to specifically either improve with or rank up a specific mech.  And it's just bad to annoy players like that - they will eventually quit if the game keeps restricting them from playing what they want.

 

4. Pertaining to number 2, I know you are trying to make sure that your thought that nobody can choose the same mech is offset by making sure that everyone has access to every mech up front.  Besides the fact that I just don't agree with number 2, I think that giving new players too many choices up front is a bad idea - it causes overload fatigue, where they cannot ever figure out what to use and can never focus on getting good with one or two mechs.  Also, you'd be removing one of the biggest incentives for keeping players coming back to the game - to earn more mechs, items and weapons.  The game NEEDS those incentives to keep the player base strong.  If there's nothing to work towards, a lot of people get bored and stop playing.

 

 

All that said, I really like number 3.  I've said forever that there needs to be more effort made to ensure that matches don't start until teams are either full or mostly full with a solid sense of team balance.

[PoopSlinger]

I've got to disagree with those three points.

 

1. The Technician is not "fine".  The biggest problem with it is that it receives way, way too much XP for healing.  Any match with a tech... the Tech is almost guaranteed to be at the top of the podium.  And the fact that, in high MMR matches, especially TDM, if one team chooses a Tech and the other doesn't, the team with the Tech is almost always the winner.  It needs some nerfs in some aspects... and it needs some buffs in other to offset those.  It can be a better mech, one that players can appreciate without it being OP, UP or hated.

Only in TDM scrims was it almost necessary to have tech.  In high tier pubs it mattered a lot less.  Having the C-class beef that the tech could hide behind will do in a pub tdm though.  C-classes OP, tech meh

[CraftyDus]

Never felt overwhelmed because of a tech.

I would like to see Hawken health pools cut and damage and speed increased.

That would make it a better game that more people who are good at games would play.

Like COD

[Sylhiri]

I don't have a problem witch a technician, i love that thing as i love support roles in every game in hawken is no exception for it, it works perfectly fine with it, there is always the option to counter another tech with getting yourself 1 in a team, the gamemechanics should just be modified.

 

I think your misunderstanding. I have nothing against support roles nor do I request that a support role be removed/banned from Hawken. Also countering a mech with the same mech is horrible design.

 

Care to elaborate? It's not clear to me what this would entail.

 

I, for one, think tech is mostly fine. Much like the incinerator, it has only gotten weaker as players have slowly added to the list of things that can be used to counter it.

 

I must apologize as it looks like I poorly worded my post. I was pointing toward the Technicians design of continuous "unlimited" healing. The power of healing isn't the issue in my eyes. All other healing methods are limited in some fashion. Manual healing allows you to heal anywhere at any time but you are vulnerable to the point where you are most likely to die or get severely injured. Death orbs can only be obtained by killing an enemy, requires you to be in a specific radius around the object and only heals you for a small set number. Repair orbs operate the same way except you have a limited amount but even then repair orbs have a history of problems due to it more or less being readily available most of the time combined with death orbs.

 

Right now the Technician's healing benefits most from a single B or C class since it is a targeted HoT beam. A classes do not benefit as much as B/C classes since their lower health can not mitigate the damage to allow the beam time to heal some of the damage enough to give them a bigger TTK. Basically the repair orb with the internal did a better job of this for A class. Also like I said before any major changes to lower the amount of health regen that Hawken currently has would amount to a Technician nerf or redesign anyway.

 

I would like to see the Technician as capable in battle as any other mech but a limited "burst" heal with a moderate cooldown or a more effective HoT and have only 25-50% of incoming damage (depending on class) be healed by any health regen with the exception of manual health regen which would allow you to heal to 100%. This should allow the Technician to be effective in battle while allowing other health systems to be modified without effecting it's power and lower the power of defense.

 

I do like the *Armor and Core idea though but it might be quite confusing for new players without proper tutorials.

Edited by Sylhiri, 27 January 2016 - 11:34 AM.

[PoopSlinger]

We should just disable orb drop, ban tech and play private servers only with friendly fire healing on. 

 

Choose between shooting your enemy or shooting your team.

[ShadowWarg]

Never felt overwhelmed because of a tech.

I would like to see Hawken health pools cut and damage and speed increased.

That would make it a better game that more people who are good at games would play.

Like COD

My problem with the tech is exactly as Sylhiri described, the current health system wasn't designed with the Tech in mind. Otherwise I think it would be a nice addition. I feel like the Tech is a scapegoat sometimes as it is only part of the bigger problem, it alone isn't in issue (besides is balance issues).

 

(I forgot to included the brawler's ability, but I don't know if that counts)

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As for the rest of your statement; then what would be the point in playing Hawken at all? I can't speak for others, but the reason I started playing Hawken all the way back in Beta was BECAUSE it wasn't CoD or CoD like. Don't mean to be rude, but if I wanted to play something like CoD, there are A LOT of other games to choose from include CoD. This game wont draw other players in because its like another game, it will draw people if its fun, and I don't believe making it more like CoD means it will make it fun.

 

Sorry for my off subject rant.

Edited by ShadowWarg, 27 January 2016 - 01:16 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Numbers, Numbers... and cases, cases...

 

Disclaimer: I do not have the real numbers right now while posting this..

 

My initial personal view would be as follows:

 

1.- Max. number of orbs permitted to heal one or more mechs. -> Should be limited to 1 only, IMHO.

 

2.- Death orbs and health items should be handled in quite distinct ways/cases. Are death orbs proportional in "residual" HPs to the last health amount the victim had when killed? Extractor internals revised only to work with death orbs _OR_ with health items only. Tech health beam should cancel Death Orb regeneration while working (item orb should be excluded thus allowed.. it costs slots...).

 

3.- Death orbs should probably degrade faster.

 

4.- EMPs should freeze death orbs for a short period of time. Even, making these vanish below some minimum number of health (as these degrade..)

 

5.- Only 1 Tech healing beam per mech target should be allowed.

 

6.- Health items should work a bit faster for A Class mechs (at least when not self-repairing).

 

7.- The same with the healing rate for item orbs while self-repairing. Should be proportionaly revised, IMHO, and diferentiated its healing rate per mech class.. -- BTW, sometimes you have to walk a little before you get properly working the item health orb.. that's weird and.. I don't like that much to tell ya the truth.

 

... this is a sensitive subject as you know. Gameplay: TTK, balancing and so forth.. To those asking for removing self-repairs: Don't do drugs.. or something.. :P ;)

 

Some points are more raw than the others. But hope these help to the discussion in here. Time to play, excuse me!! ;)

[Luaq]

 

Spoiler

If I had to make a suggestion for changing the health system, I would say go the style of Halo; 2 health bars, Top layer is "ARMOR" bottom layer is the "CORE". I'm not suggesting automatic regenerating ARMOR though. ARMOR can be repaired with all of the available healing methods including self repair, but the CORE cannot. The CORE can only be repaired slowly with manual/self repair and that is it, so there is no guarantee that you will always be at full health. Keeps the current items in the game (or remove them) and make manual repair have some meaning again

I once created a thread in the old forums about Pilot health and Mech health... But yeah humans would die once a bullet pierces though that cockpit because the bullets are probably big enough to just dismember them human bodies...

 

 

Spoiler blood violence:

Spoiler

Half opened skull:

Spoiler

You know.... stuff that will leave you post traumatized after playing hawken.
Such splatter. Much real.



But I would NOT actually wish for human 3d models to be dismembered and split in 3 and two parts still sticking together just by the skin because that's not hawken...(making my whole post almost useless)

THough making us players  feel the pilot inside the cockpit is actually having trouble with some "interior" damage by featuring effects such as having steam coming of the dashboard and electrical discharges in the cockpit would make the game more stressful. More hawkensque. 

"Holy fuzzy bunny I almost died and I can't repair now unless I return to base and repair the interior of the cockpit"
Speaking about the base which only has a role for EU... There could be a TDM game type where we could go back as a team and heal while other defend the damaged mechs trying to repair. (Where each teams base can be destroyed so players cannot repair.. only respawn.)

But I'm going off topic because this idea is barely made out on the fly and hawken isn't ready to add new modes anyways.

(this post was actually useless till the end, thanks for reading.)

Edited by Luaq, 27 January 2016 - 04:16 PM.

[DallasCreeper]

(I forgot to included the brawler's ability, but I don't know if that counts)

 

 

Brawler's turret is more or less useless exept for one common situation. The 10% damage mitigation and measly heals from Brawler's turret only provides a use when dumping some orbs for a quicker heal. The regen form the orb and Turret stack and provide quick healing, especially if you're running an orblord. Which is a serious problem when you put in Brawler's huge health pool and how quickly it can get it back. 

[m0bieduck]

F***K TECH

also we should have the tuning system back so we can max out boost speed for giggles on the raider

[Nept]

The game was not made with the Technician in mind, the design is flawed. It's mechanics just existing means that most things need to be created with the Technician in mind. That's the big problem with our current health situation where any removal or large changes to health items, internals and mechanics require that the Technician be changed to fit the new health changes or the health changes to be balanced around having a Technician. Even the release of new mechs is taken into consideration (or should have been), example being the Incinerator.

 

The technician shouldn't get nuked, it should be designed for Hawken. No other game, just Hawken.

 

Honestly, the tech's fine.  I agree with orbs + orb-related internals requiring a rework, but the technician's easily nullified.

[Oldcrankypants]

This is not COD. It was not made as COD. And I hope to god it never is. There already is a game of COD and multitudes of copy cats.

[ShadowWarg]

I said it in the beginning of the thread, all of these health options, they have to go, not nerfed, not tweaked, I mean completely removed. The original health system wasn't broken, yeah there was a balance issue between classes' health, but it was simple and worked. Then they started adding in more and more things that changed health without really making the proper adjustments to the original system, that is not even taking into account that the original system didn't even have most of these health variables in mind to begin with (they scrapped and completely redid internals) That is why the current system just doesn't work, these additions, they didn't synergize together even after adjustments were made, no it clear that no amount of tweaking is going to fix them.

 

Maybe they can be added in again later IF the health system is worked to fit around them, but at the moment, they just don't fit and will make balancing health more trouble than it needs to be in the future.

 

~post~

Um..... Thank your Luaq for the.... "Colorful" description  of a new health system.

[ATX22]

This is not COD. It was not made as COD. And I hope to god it never is. There already is a game of COD and multitudes of copy cats.

 

It's been said that Hawken is a clone of CoD.. but with mechs.   

 

Then again, isn't the tech more of a TF2-medic rip-off?  I really wish they never introduced that mech, it adds yet another layer of redundancy to a game that gives you so many ways to heal.  IMHO, they need to make Hawken more like the old-school games before all this hand-holding started to become popular, with finite health and ammo that doesn't auto-generate or regenerate simply at the press of a key.

[JeffMagnum]

Tbh the "Tech is OP/broken" meme has possibly eclipsed "Scout is OP" when it comes to historically-correct-but-long-inaccurate statements on balance that are still commonly repeated as if objectively true. Orblording and, to a lesser extent, the orb-centric meta in general are the main health-related issues currently in Hawken by a significant margin