76 replies to this topic

[CoshCaust]

Unfortunately Shadowplay pooped its pants along with the footage, but let me lay out exactly what happened:

 

Game had just started on Wreckage, i run on the catwalk to the other side, enemy standing still showing up on radar, clearly laying mines, wait til he/she's done, fly above them, see a full trap of mines on the ground just after the flat ground angles into a slope, smooth ground there for the most part if you're unaware; i shoot TOW after TOW, Flak after Flak, air det, direct hit- NOTHING will destroy these mines. Nothing.

 

They're so ungodly broken, and that's on top of the Pred's damage being too high already. *preds everywhere being triggered*

 

I didn't see this thread on the front page where it belongs, so i'm putting it there.

FIX THE MINES FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE IT'S RIDICULOUS THEY CREATE IMPASSABLE BLOCKADES.

[HubbaBubba9849]

Yes. Very much so. Pred mines are often indestructible and it is a can of mashed fuzzy bunnies.

[Amidatelion]

Unfortunately Shadowplay pooped its pants along with the footage, but let me lay out exactly what happened:

 

Game had just started on Wreckage, i run on the catwalk to the other side, enemy standing still showing up on radar, clearly laying mines, wait til he/she's done, fly above them, see a full trap of mines on the ground just after the flat ground angles into a slope, smooth ground there for the most part if you're unaware; i shoot TOW after TOW, Flak after Flak, air det, direct hit- NOTHING will destroy these mines. Nothing.

 

They're so ungodly broken, and that's on top of the Pred's damage being too high already. *preds everywhere being triggered*

 

I didn't see this thread on the front page where it belongs, so i'm putting it there.

FIX THE MINES FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE IT'S RIDICULOUS THEY CREATE IMPASSABLE BLOCKADES.

 

 

Maybe if you played anything other than scout this wouldn't be a problem.

[Coboxite]

Maybe if you played anything other than scout this wouldn't be a problem.

 

Nah, they're still busted with B class mechs.

 

The issue is the shear amount of damage they do. They would be above the curve with out pred vision, but having it takes them from "Good" to "Literally the best non C class mech in the game"

[Dew]

Nah, they're still busted with B class mechs.

 

The issue is the shear amount of damage they do. They would be above the curve with out pred vision, but having it takes them from "Good" to "Literally the best non C class mech in the game"

 

This is laughable.

[Coboxite]

This is laughable.

The way on how broken they are? Yeah, they're pretty funny :)

[Amidatelion]

The way on how broken they are? Yeah, they're pretty funny :)

 

Ok, in the interests of providingactually constructive feedback, let me break this down:

 

If you're playing a trap-laying pred, they are sub-optimal. I'm talking, like, 2 steps above G2A. (And YES LE I'm including you because 99% of your kills on me are straight up duels). You can usually identify likely points and the vast majority of them do not hide the tell-tale red glow. And right there is the hard counter to a trap-pred. Don't fuzzing engage them! See traps, laugh, walk away and spam a macro.

 

Furthermore, an assault with deflectors can boost through 75% of the traps a pred can lay without problem because it has the HP to do so and, if its good enough, kill the fuzzy bunnyng pred on the other side.

 

A trap-laying pred gives you the initiative. If you wanna blow it on walking through its traps, you are at fault. If you die to pred traps more than twice a map, you need to review your footage and learn. A good pred does not give you the initiative and kills you with breacher + mines in a 1v1 it set the terms of.

[Shade__]

 

SHHHHHHHH there is no need to be upset, This will be addressed at some point

[EM1O]

Breecher. Mines. cloak, kill.

kill.

kill.

 

simple.  kill Pred, problem solved.

bwoohahahahha

OR

i used to not have respect for pred. after 2 years i finally bot one (intentional pun).

favorite map: Bunker. believe it or not. kill-fest.

 

get a Pred. then revisit this thread.

aaayyyyy. poetic!

[CraftyDus]

TIL outside of C-Classes, the Predator is the most OP mech in the game.

[JackVandal]

Cant speak to it being OP or not, though its a scary bunny on par with a turkey when played right, but the issue where mines cant be detonated by anyone not the pred should be fixed,

[CoshCaust]

Maybe if you played anything other than scout this wouldn't be a problem.

>me playing anything other than Scout

>pred is fine

 

If this game had the population and interest CS:GO has, top 1% players would only be using Pred, something with Heat, and maybe Assault.

Edited by CoshCaust, 07 February 2016 - 11:23 PM.

[DerMax]

TIL outside of C-Classes, the Predator is the most OP mech in the game.

In hands of a top-tier player, it is only marginally worse than the Assault. But you wouldn't know that.

[Morquedeas]

People in this thread are getting way off topic.

 

Issue: In some cases pred mines cannot be shot to detonate them when they should be.  This should be fixed.  This has little to do with the balance of pred overall.

 

ALTHOUGH, I personally think a bigger issue is when pred mines are planted underneath certain floor textures (origin comes to mind) such that they are completely invisible.  Super messed up.

[CraftyDus]

Get a clue dermax. I'm CraftyDus

I played season 2 of tpg in a pred on RATA with merl, tickle, mr high et al.
I've forgotten more about being a "high tier pred" than most will likely learn.

Edited by CraftyDus, 08 February 2016 - 12:30 AM.

[HubbaBubba9849]

ALTHOUGH, I personally think a bigger issue is when pred mines are planted underneath certain floor textures (origin comes to mind) such that they are completely invisible.  Super messed up.

Yeah, on Origin, if pred mines are placed on a jump pad, they're completely hidden and likely unavoidable since you HAVE to use the jump pads on Origin.

Spoiler

There's 8 pred mines here. Can you see them?

[DerMax]

Get a clue dermax. I'm CraftyDus

I played season 2 of tpg in a pred on RATA with merl, tickle, mr high et al.
I've forgotten more about being a "high tier pred" than most will likely learn.

Well, yeah, but I was talking about top-tier, not high-tier.

[CraftyDus]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[DerMax]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

How cute xD

[HubbaBubba9849]

This thread is about pred mines being indestructible, soooo.....

or you two could go have your meaningless banter in pm's if you wish.

[CraftyDus]

I am cute in a pred, unlike most people relevant to comp hawken, you've just never seen it

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCTKPNPjVKc

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E81YP501GAo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjHItduvEQ

 

it wouldn't hurt my feelings if pred mines were destructible, having played one for many hundreds of hours at the highest level

Someone tell dermax

[DerMax]

Man, come on now. Two of those links are identical, two others lead to videos of you playing the Zerker (?), one is a goofy match where your team consists almost entirely of preds, and the last one on Wreckage is you playing against riff-raff (except Third). Do you have a video of you performing against 2800+ guys?

[CraftyDus]

but ya 2 decent tpg matches in there as well, try and keep up

The fun one with friends at the top was entirely preds, some notable top-tier ones, in fact

Most of which would be good enough people to vouch for my performance in a pred

but you wouldn't know anything about that

Keep running your mouth though

 

On Topic----->pred mines can blow up pred mines for what it's worth op

[CraftyDus]

Do you have a video of you performing against 2800+ guys?

 

I'm sorry, I think I understand what you need.

That match making rating thingie seems important to you.

 

I don't have any other footage of season 2 when I played a pred with RATA in 2014.

 

Best I can do is one of many hundreds of hours of friendly scrims with my dear friends from last season.

We'd do this for 3 or 4 hours a few times a week in preparation for matches.

From around the time when I decided to be the worst reaper, NA.

 

[LaurenEmily]

Crafty where is your Breacher ? 

[Aregon]

Why must every damn thread turn into a bloody e-peen competition/useless discussion. Nothing productive except blocked threads come out of it.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

>me playing anything other than Scout

>pred is fine

 

(e^ix - e^-ix) / 2i,

 

I'm with you.  Scout Uber Alles!

 

 

 

 

 

(edited to remove the pic from the quote, too much realestate)

Edited by Lunatic, 08 February 2016 - 04:39 AM.

[CraftyDus]

I want to defend where the pred is, despite op's frustration with the indestructible nature of it's  secondary eoc pucks.

It's in a nice place balance-wise.

 

Though comic and shamed me into leaving off the pred during sssdm back when I was always in one. "Dirtbaggin' it"

It's a great way for a niche cache of players to excel with an unorthodox and unique combination of strengths and weaknesses.

Most of whom would shine in any other class anyway.

You know who you are.

 

I will reiterate pred mines kill pred mines, and preds are a good counter to preds

Pro Tip

[Dew]

Pred is decidedly un-fun when the other team has a Pred. It is decidedly thrilling, on the other hand, when nobody can see you and you can see everything.

 

Also coming from one of the only people to play a Pred in actual TPG matches, it is not OP by any means. It's a good mech at best on Wreckage. On maps like Front Line and even some places where you'd expect it to shine (Origin, Facility) it's rather subpar. Especially if your team is getting run over and you aren't able to dictate your engagements.

 

I am the OG Fredator™, it's my most-played mech and I have 8500 kills with the thing. I've been around the block a few times.

 

EDIT: But yes, the bug where mines are occasionally indestructable should be fixed.

 

PS: Not that I have faith it ever will be, or any sort of faith in Reloaded at all.

Edited by Dew, 08 February 2016 - 08:44 AM.

[DerMax]

Pred is decidedly un-fun when the other team has a Pred. It is decidedly thrilling, on the other hand, when nobody can see you and you can see everything.

 

Also coming from one of the only people to play a Pred in actual TPG matches, it is not OP by any means. It's a good mech at best on Wreckage. On maps like Front Line and even some places where you'd expect it to shine (Origin, Facility) it's rather subpar. Especially if your team is getting run over and you aren't able to dictate your engagements.

 

I am the OG Fredator™, it's my most-played mech and I have 8500 kills with the thing. I've been around the block a few times.

 

EDIT: But yes, the bug where mines are occasionally indestructable should be fixed.

 

PS: Not that I have faith it ever will be, or any sort of faith in Reloaded at all.

Pred's not OP by any means, but my problem with it is that it's relevant at any range (if you play Breacher). In CQC it blasts your socks off if you're playing an A or a B, due to its huge dps; mid-range it can easily hit breacher shots and deal good damage with mines; and long-range it still does decent work. Plus, it's good both in cornerplay and open-air combat.

 

I want mechs in Hawken be niche and not jack-of-all-trades like Assault, Zerker and Hawkins Brawler are right now.

Edited by DerMax, 08 February 2016 - 09:47 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Long range breached needs a buff in top tier lobbies

[Flight1ess]

Maybe if you played anything other than scout this wouldn't be a problem.

[Dew]

Long range breached needs a buff in top tier lobbies

 

An increase in the minimum damage would be primo, doing a measly 35 damage just outside of midrange is balls.

[CraftyDus]

The word on the street is that the breacher range fall off keeps it from being that 3rd snipe class club

I'm talking breacher range, lengthen it, and play with close up accuracy like on the ss.

And while we're at it give the reaper that bad close up unscoped aim.

top

tier

[CraftyDus]

Crafty where is your Breacher ? 

 

!say 239

 

Ima bolt pred, don't judge me

[CoshCaust]

Do you have a video of you performing against 2800+ guys?

Obligatory MMR is fuzz- 2800+ is essentially unreachable right now with the highest MMRs being online at any given time ~2000. Not enough active high-MMR population to climb that high- one slip up where a mediocre tech gets lucky and scores one more point than you, goodbye 50 games worth of MMR grind.

 

This thread is about pred mines being indestructible, soooo.....

People in this thread are getting way off topic.

I triggered them hard in my OP :P

Hey this thread's main point is fact, not discussion- good to generate moderately-related discussion to keep the thread on the front page ;) ;) ;)

 

I'm with you.  Scout Uber Alles!

It's just too fun :D

 

It's in a nice place balance-wise.

it is not OP by any means

Pred's not OP by any means

I should be explicit with my claim since it really took off in the discussion.

The Pred is actually at a pretty good place balance-wise - in fact, it's really good at average level play (i think?) - but i swear to you (like i said, if Hawken had the population and competitive interest of CS:GO...), the Pred's skill ceiling is ludicrously higher than a huge majority of mechs. To put my claims of Pred OP-ness in perspective, i've only played against two or three players who've actually showed me how ridiculous the Pred can be.

I'll admit that i'm not acquainted and certainly not adept at fighting these top-tier Preds, but i know that, and my claims exist none the less- i see my flaws, but i see flaws in the balance as well.

First and foremost, if the game at hand is objective-based, then other mechs have a wide variety of attributes that provide advantages the Pred might not have, creating some fairly concrete balance. Here's the thing: A Pred (again, i'm telling you, less than ~four people exist who are capable of this that i've met - hell, could be the same person -> alt accounts - i know it isn't common, but the mech is cabale if the pilot is), post-alpha-strike via Heat Scout still has a chance to win in a 1v1 if the quarters are close enough, and is essentially guaranteed the win if you're stuck on the ground. This specifically is what's not okay- i can't rationalize that absolutely ludicrous damage output.

In this example game (on Origin) with this top-tier Pred player, sure i was making mistakes, being too aggressive (story of my [Hawken] life), not picking the battle locations; but again, i saw my mistakes, and i also saw the ridiculousness standing next to my mistakes- i am by no means being butthurt about my own shortcomings.

Is the Pred as scary on Bazaar as Origin? No, but there are maps/game-modes where the Pred is just a mean joke- this player i'm using as example was over 100 ping (i bow to your adaptation to such sub-par conditions), and yet if i were in a pub on Origin or Wreckage with him/her, i would honestly just leave the area every time i saw them.

 

Simple solution (along with less mine damage via manual detonation):...

An increase in the minimum damage would be primo, doing a measly 35 damage just outside of midrange is balls.

I actually agree with this, the damage seems to swing too widely- nerf up close, buff far away.

 

EDIT:

Dew concisely outlines the only solid counterargument to what i'm saying- that i should avoid conflict.

I'm just on the fence as to whether or not that's a 100% successful argument against the Pred being OP. I don't want a massive nerf, but i can't help but feel the Pred is disproportionately capable of skirmishing when in the hands of the extremely talented.

But hell, what am i even saying, hardly anyone is OP in a Pred- the issue really is minute to say the least.

Edited by CoshCaust, 08 February 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Dew]

if i were in a pub on Origin or Wreckage with him/her, i would honestly just leave the area every time i saw them.

 

Extremely valid strategy. Pred has little to no chase capability. The absolute best thing you can do to irritate a Pred is to book it for your team at the slightest hint that you have been or may be ambushed. Nothing delights a Pred more than the A or B class that sticks around to fight the 1v1.

[CoshCaust]

Extremely valid strategy. Pred has little to no chase capability. The absolute best thing you can do to irritate a Pred is to book it for your team at the slightest hint that you have been or may be ambushed. Nothing delights a Pred more than the A or B class that sticks around to fight the 1v1.

but i wanna kill em

Edited by CoshCaust, 08 February 2016 - 02:27 PM.

[CraftyDus]

Obligatory MMR is fuzz- 2800+ is essentially unreachable right now with the highest MMRs being online at any given time ~2000. Not enough active high-MMR population to climb that high- one slip up where a mediocre tech gets lucky and scores one more point than you, goodbye 50 games worth of MMR grind.

 

 

it's always been rare or in dermax's circumstances, completely unavailable for most people.

But as I showed from that random tuesday practice, this was a mundane routine for like 3-5 hours a day, three days a week.

Right in the middle of the 3rd in these 15-ish match seasons of tpg.

Although I'm sensitive to the fact that he couldn't possibly understand what that means with his little to non-existent comp experience.

He begged for some information about what top tier lobbies are like.

 

What's more is  that was also simultaneously in the middle of our CEVO s8 csgo league which required nearly as much time.

All this pales in comparison to the scrim and 12-man culture of the tpg dod comp scene which we hung up to dry in 2013.

That was a huge group of former money LAN invite-level players, and it was every day for many years, with rarely ever stepping foot in a pub.

So ya "top-tier" despite his assertion that I "wouldn't know about that".

I've enjoyed a rich history of it across multiple games, and could regale him with years of anecdotes from my wealth of experience.

 

I guess there's always been farming public match making rating from pubs and the occasional decent duel or open-level scrim available to him, which I guess is good too.

 

EDIT:

Dew concisely outlines the only solid counterargument to what i'm saying- that i should avoid conflict.

 

or get in a pred

 

Pred has little to no chase capability.

 

I think that's on the individual. Eye of the tiger.

Chase them down merciless no matter what I'm in.

[CraftyDus]

but my problem with it is that it's relevant at any range (if you play Breacher)

 

nope. 

 

https://youtu.be/Wbfaj20z-ro?t=269

 

like most of us know who have played predator at the highest level,  the breacher fall-off starts at 110 and ends at 150

thats not much range compared to everything but the baby bear, the smc , and the hilarious pnuematic nailer

 

I would love to see the breacher range up there with SA-Hawkins and the AM-SAR