49 replies to this topic

[Rei]

^^^

It ruins all the games.

[Hyginos]

I don't think it would be as persuasive as at 10 minute lockout.

[claisolais]

loose mmr? Really? Enter-quit-enter-quit-enter-quit.................................. enter one star server and pubstomps!

 

NO.

 

maybe 10-15 mins lockout, but, wait, what if we want one noob to quit? That noob might be ruining the game already

[Amidatelion]

loose mmr? Really? Enter-quit-enter-quit-enter-quit.................................. enter one star server and pubstomps!

 

This happens already.

 

It's called a queue.

 

The only thing that will fix matchmaking at this point is courtesy and basic human decency, which large portions of this community distinctly lacks.

[HOHOHOSANTA]

mmr doesn't really matter at this point of the game since even when we queue up we get put with 1200-1800 mmrplayers regardless so it kinda of defeats the purpose of a mixed match making. I'd agree on a lockout, also maybe a Surrender Vote system when the match is super one sided like 40-10 before u get to that point though, the team can vote on surrendering so it can roll over automatically, without losing mmr [if it really matters that much].

[TheButtSatisfier]

Am I reading this right? Have Reloaded use $ to write code that will punish leavers by lowering a magic number whose visibility isn't officially supported in the first place?

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 08 April 2016 - 08:33 PM.

[crockrocket]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but let me reiterate my position on this again. I think the solution should reward players for doing the right thing, rather than punish those who do wrong.

As usual, I'll link my suggestion on this matter next time I have computer access (on mobile now).

[ticklemyiguana]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but let me reiterate my position on this again. I think the solution should reward players for doing the right thing, rather than punish those who do wrong.

As usual, I'll link my suggestion on this matter next time I have computer access (on mobile now).

https://community.pl...vidual-lobbies/

 

Just as baller as the day it was posted.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 08 April 2016 - 09:51 PM.

[SS396]

^^^

It ruins all the games.

 

[CrimsonKaim]

Yes. So I can intentionally lower my MMR more to get into these noob matches. Pubstomping with ease!

 

 

Sidenote: Get rid of MMR restrictions as long as Hawken isn't released and make a closed beta. 

[KarlSchlag]

Spoiler

[ATX22]

^^^

It ruins all the games.

 

Losing double MMR for leaving ruins all the games?  Yes.. yes it would. 

[Darktim300]

You make the assumption that all people know/care about MMR. If i have to leave during one, i'm usually being talked to sternly to get to practice. Locking you out of games would make getting to said practice hard <.<

[StubbornPuppet]

I remember all the good ole' times when this conversation was about losing XP and/or HC.  What once was said to be "too strong of a suggested penalty", is now a complete joke - as most of us have enough XP and HC to buy every single mech, weapon, internal and item for 5 new players.

 

And it still comes back, after all this time, to the better solution being to disincentivize quitting by INcentivizing STAYING.  Hawken needs to find ways to make it worth sticking around in the same server for as many matches as possible.

[ATX22]

I remember all the good ole' times when this conversation was about losing XP and/or HC.  What once was said to be "too strong of a suggested penalty", is now a complete joke - as most of us have enough XP and HC to buy every single mech, weapon, internal and item for 5 new players.

 

And it still comes back, after all this time, to the better solution being to disincentivize quitting by INcentivizing STAYING.  Hawken needs to find ways to make it worth sticking around in the same server for as many matches as possible.

 

Here's to hoping that Reloaded slaps boat-loads of "end-game" style credit sinks into Hawken to deal with the devaluation of XP/HC/MC among the long-timers here... 

 

Also, trying to reward people for doing what you want them to do doesn't give certain people the same warm fuzzies as running people off with draconian punishment schemes.. especially for new and casual gamers.  It's not like we all had to fork over $60 just to be here.. 

[DallasCreeper]

  It's not like we all had to fork over $60 just to be here.. 

Was this for the Alphas? I didn't have to pay $60 

Edited by (TDM) DallasCreeper, 15 April 2016 - 03:13 AM.

[The_Silencer]

Just as side note:

 

What if the dude who is leaving a match had to attend a phone call, was in a hurry and had to move out, connection was lost, ... long non-negative et cetera here..?

 

IMHO, would not be fair inflicting such a penalization there.. no matter if we talk about MCs, MMR or HCs

[Amidatelion]

Just as side note:

 

What if the dude who is leaving a match had to attend a phone call, was in a hurry and had to move out, connection was lost, ... long non-negative et cetera here..?

 

IMHO, would not be fair inflicting such a penalization there.. no matter if we talk about MCs, MMR or HCs

 

Take the hit and move on. If you took a call running a marathon, you wouldn't complain about losing.

[The_Silencer]

Take the hit and move on. If you took a call running a marathon, you wouldn't complain about losing.

According to what the OP said:

 

^^^

It ruins all the games.

 

I thought we were talking about "all games" thus not about any marathon and/or tournaments.. but is Ok

[Amidatelion]

According to what the OP said:

 

 

I thought we were talking about "all games" thus not about any marathon and/or tournaments.. but is Ok

It was a metaphor.

 

i.e. suck it up

[StubbornPuppet]

Was this for the Alphas? I didn't have to pay $60 

 

He was being facetious.

[The_Silencer]

.. nevertheless...

 

beyond some fair number of abandons per pilot's profile.. something like that might decently work at some blatant cases in relation to this

[MomOw]

Already discussed but you may have fair reasons to leave : 

- your team has more members than the ennemy team (and balance is bad)

- you have connexion issues

- you have something to do IRL

 

other points are that :

- unbalanced games that last for long and painful minutes are boring

- when their is no available server the quickmatch put you in a random server, which can lead to uneven teams...

- you may enter in an already started game that is unbalanced.

- you may ragequit with idlekicking.

 

So HC / XP / MMR loss have to be handled with care.

 

I do agree that when the MMR spread is low, the teams are even, and all the players started the match, frequent leavers should be punished.

Same for MM abusers who leave the losing team to try to join te winning team. 

 

Some solutions before punishing ragequiters

- server lock when spread is low and teams are balanced

- spectator mode when teams are uneven

- winning conditions based on score difference (more than 15 kills in TDM, more than 500 in MA, etc)

- a smart MM which could create balanced servers based on connected players (when I watch herokuapp, I often see several 1800 servers in EU with a 2k+ player in each one)

- ask if you want to join or not when the MM put you in a server out of your fitness range.

 

Then allow to leave once per ... hour (?) (per game mode ?) without penality and then punish leavers in some way (can't join for 2 min ? HC loss ? MMR loss ?), and consider idlekick the same as leaving.

[StubbornPuppet]

Rocket League imposes a 15 ban from matchmaking for players who quit mid-match.

That move was put in place in December, I think, and it has been met with mixed opinions.  Mostly heralded as a good thing because it is a step in the right direction and made an immediate and very noticeable reduction in the number of rage-quit incidents.  But it was not without it's negatives and detractors.

 

The majority of the detractors were people saying, "It's a game and I should be allowed to quit for any reason at any time without penalty."  But, those were the people that were causing the problem the 15 ban was intended to aggravate... so those cries were ignored.

 

The realistic detraction was people who get disconnected because of network issues - so the next update put in a feature where, when starting the game, the first thing you get is a popup message that asks if you would like to avoid the 15 min. ban by automatically rejoining the match you just left - if you accept, you get put right back into the match on the same team you left and you carry on.  If you decline, you are banned from matchmaking for 15 minutes.  That resolved a good portion of those complaints, but there were still people who would say they were disconnected too close to the end of the match and that the match wasn't available when they got the game restarted.  That's a conundrum.

 

So, it didn't solve all of the quitting, some people still do it and are willing to deal with the ban to be able to show their convictions about how much they hate losing.  And it did create a problem for those players who have unstable connections... but the consensus is that it made the game better overall.

[ATX22]

Was this for the Alphas? I didn't have to pay $60 

 

Huh?  I dunno, I came in in CB2.  Just comparing Hawken (F2P) to old traditional retail model.   

 

Anyway, at this point, I'd be interested to see what any change would do.  Temp bans or MMR drains would could either help the situation or empty out the dozen or so servers left that actually aren't empty.

Edited by ATX22, 15 April 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[Hyginos]

I'd like to add that, while I think a lockout for leaving games mid way would be nice, I don't think it should lock you out of rejoining the game you left.

 

Rather, the "launch" button should be replaced with a "reconnect" button until the match concludes. This is purely to give players who crash or disconnect some recourse.

[ATX22]

I'd like to add that, while I think a lockout for leaving games mid way would be nice, I don't think it should lock you out of rejoining the game you left.

 

Rather, the "launch" button should be replaced with a "reconnect" button until the match concludes. This is purely to give players who crash or disconnect some recourse.

 

If you're going to lock players into a game, then also to keep that spot open on the server, Hawken should no allow any late joiners once a match starts.

Edited by ATX22, 16 April 2016 - 05:02 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I'd like to add that, while I think a lockout for leaving games mid way would be nice, I don't think it should lock you out of rejoining the game you left.

 

Rather, the "launch" button should be replaced with a "reconnect" button until the match concludes. This is purely to give players who crash or disconnect some recourse.

 

That is exactly what Rocket League does... as noted in my post above.

[MomOw]

"reconnect" ....  that's what trolls do to get in the winning team, and it will be screwed if other players entered the servers, so simple reconnect won't be enough. 

[StubbornPuppet]

"reconnect" ....  that's what trolls do to get in the winning team, and it will be screwed if other players entered the servers, so simple reconnect won't be enough. 

 

In the case we're speaking of, it would reconnect you to the team you left and not allow you to change.

 

If you bail (or disconnect), and your spot on the team is taken up by a new player... "Sorry, game is no longer available."  And you get to wait for your time-out penalty to expire.

[The_Silencer]

Maybe the way would be to define some fair "abandon" instances prior to apply meassures countering apparent abuses or let's say bad looking quits -or suspicious behaviour if you wish...

 

Nevertheless whatever solution/s implemented to make things more consistant and fair must not decrease the freedom factor of those pilots who are not looking for anything negative on the matter

 

This is all of a sensitive and not so easy to handle subject, imho..

[Hyginos]

What are everyone's opinions on a match-by-match format like LoL does in which a full server's worth of players are taken and prompted to play one complete game before the lobby is disbanded?

 

It would be nice to have a "ranked" mode with this format separate from normal play (as well as a newbie queue), but we certainly don't have the population to support multiple queues right now.

[crockrocket]

What are everyone's opinions on a match-by-match format like LoL does in which a full server's worth of players are taken and prompted to play one complete game before the lobby is disbanded?

 

It would be nice to have a "ranked" mode with this format separate from normal play (as well as a newbie queue), but we certainly don't have the population to support multiple queues right now.

 

I don't like it. When I get into a match with people I like playing with, I want to stay in that lobby for a while. Maybe with a separate ranked queue, but I feel like Hawken only had the population to support that right after the steam release. 

[StubbornPuppet]

What are everyone's opinions on a match-by-match format like LoL does in which a full server's worth of players are taken and prompted to play one complete game before the lobby is disbanded?

 

It would be nice to have a "ranked" mode with this format separate from normal play (as well as a newbie queue), but we certainly don't have the population to support multiple queues right now.

 

 

I don't like it. When I get into a match with people I like playing with, I want to stay in that lobby for a while. Maybe with a separate ranked queue, but I feel like Hawken only had the population to support that right after the steam release. 

 

I'd definitely say "No" to ranked matches.  Ranked matches never lead to anything good - just a bunch of whining, b!tc#ing and flame wars.  Nobody is ever satisfied that the rankings are fair or balanced, every other person claims the ranking system is completely broken... it just divides the player base and breeds hatred and general negativity across the board.

 

Leave that out of Hawken.

[The_Silencer]

well, personally I've never been very obssessed with my own MMR nor on my statistics in general terms. Although sometimes I do abandon games upon a time due to certain reasons and/or depending what my mood is while playing the game daily..

 

However, when at the end of a match you see way too evident unbalanced scores in between teams completing a match then I find that to be pretty obvious about that team balancing internals must be tweaked a.s.a.p. Does not occur often but some times that becomes in the well known situation we're discussing from many perspectives in the forums..

 

Probably my post now fits more on the "as side note" kind of the things though ...

[Pandabaron]

I felt the need to stop playing the game when my slightly underpowered team in a pub 2100mmr+ server all didn't spawn with me to save MMR instead of fighting. so i was left alone against a five man team while my four other team mates, inspired by a high tier european players comments who i obviously cannot name, just waited until the game would kick them for idling. so by the time i'd been killed maybe 9 times, the game got a little stale.. 

The stupid thing was, the match would've been brilliant, and probably fairly close. I used to live for these high tier games, but i'll leave you guys to it for now, i'm waiting for that update with bated breath.

So just to summarize, I'm not sure I care how severe the punishment is for leaving, I only question where the honor went in this awesome game, we should probably just all change to scout and throw orbs and scanners at each other.

 

[Nightfirebolt]

The problem is not that MMR is a thing, but that everybody seems to care about it for some reason.

 

The solution? STOP CARING ABOUT IT.

 

/end thread

[Amidatelion]

/incapable of reading thread

[Nightfirebolt]

 

/incapable of reading thread

 

 

I read it.

 

Also, there's no need to be a douche.

[DallasCreeper]

Also, there's no need to be a douche.

But that's his greatest redeeming quality!