Yeah. While the amount of work JeffMagnum put into compiling all this data is impressive, I don't believe it accurately reflects the entire playerbase. 42 people isn't the greatest sample size, especially since the game normally has 400+ people in-game at all times.
Another thing that might've helped your poll was if you had left it up for more than three days. I didn't get a chance to weigh in, and I bet a lot of other people didn't, either.
the method that jeff chose to compile his data limited him to working with a small sample size. also 40-50 out of 500 is considered a decent sample size
the method that jeff chose to compile his data limited him to working with a small sample size. also 40-50 out of 500 is considered a decent sample size
But that doesn't reflect the entire playerbase. That only reflects the amount of people that are usually in-game at the same time.
How many accounts are there in total? Do we even know?
I just think that before we title a thread "The Hawken Community's Collective Opinions" we should - perhaps - represent more than 42 of us.
Edited by Nightfirebolt, 29 March 2015 - 07:44 PM.
But that doesn't reflect the entire playerbase. That only reflects the amount of people that are usually in-game at the same time.
How many accounts are there in total? Do we even know?
we do, and lots of them are smirffs probably, the people who voice their opinions are the people who get counted. most people who are fine with the game as is, dont usually say anything untill they are unhappy. that is how the world works.
we do, and lots of them are smirffs probably, the people who voice their opinions are the people who get counted. most people who are fine with the game as is, dont usually say anything untill they are unhappy. that is how the world works.
I didn't get to voice my opinion because the poll in question was only available for a few days. I also think it's also reasonable to assume that there are probably a lot of regular players - and casual players - who haven't even checked out the new forums yet, or were simply busy during the limited time frame that the poll was open.
And you're saying their opinions are somehow less valuable?
Guess we'll agree to disagree.
Edited by Nightfirebolt, 29 March 2015 - 07:53 PM.
If players in a low MMR range do not typically fully understand what they are talking about, it should be relatively easy to deconstruct their arguments. I hope no one falls into the dishonest practice of belittling an argument through MMR (which is ultimately irrelevant).
I was think more in terms of interpreting the poll when I wrote this, where people are checking boxes, rather than writing out full arguments and explanations.
Yeah. While the amount of work JeffMagnum put into compiling all this data is impressive, I don't believe it accurately reflects the entire playerbase. 42 people isn't the greatest sample size, especially since the game normally has 400+ people in-game at all times.
Something that might've helped his poll is if he had left it up for more than three days. I didn't get a chance to weigh in, and I bet a lot of other people didn't, either.
But that doesn't reflect the entire playerbase. That only reflects the amount of people that are usually in-game at the same time.
How many accounts are there in total? Do we even know?
I just think that before we title a thread "The Hawken Community's Collective Opinions" we should - perhaps - represent more than 42 of us.
That's not really how statistics works. The sample:population ratio is far less important than making sure participants are selected randomly from the population (which my poll failed at pretty badly) and that a decently large number (which I failed at to a lesser extent) of people respond. 42/500 is hardly less accurate than 42/50000. Population isn't even usually a factor unless it's small, which is unfortunately the case with Hawken.
Why did you split UK and EU into different groups?
Originally I was going to see the effect that ping had on opinions as I assumed that a lot of people would be reporting US-E pings regardless of where they lived, but since almost everyone reported what they got on local servers, I couldn't get much from it.
UK and EU are in fact the same region called Europe in the server browser.
Talking about statistics, ashfire site is great to sort out data :
~50 players in-game in EU servers (peak)
~400 players in-game in USE servers (peak)
-> the results showed 22% of anwsers from EU (to be compared with 12.5% peak to peak), so either ~10% of EU players use USE servers or EU players are over represented on the forum (or a little of both).
Maybe if EU servers could be selected first and if population increase we will have more mixed players between USE and other regions.
Then other significant data are which games are played :
1st. TDM 63%
2nd. Siege 19%
3rd. MA 8%
4th. Coop 6%
5th. DM 4%
I would have love to be able to check the average MMR of the servers but I feel that good players play mostly both TDM and Siege, and sometime duels in DM.
So in terms of balance this means that TDM is the major concern, then Siege and in term of server set up I wonder why there is so much MA, DM or CoopBotDestruction.
I remember seeing servers like "-server-UK" and servers dedicated to the rest of Europe, but that could be outdated info.
They called some AWS servers UK even though they were hosted in Ireland. They later renamed the region to Europe and experimented with i3D servers hosted elsewhere but those were always in the same region in the browser. The UK players are a part of the larger EU community.
If only those things were so easy to seperate. Unfortunately it is not so, and thus, the controversy over what is "right" between higher and lower MMR players.
Which leaves me of the opinion that the devs simply need to make a decision that they feel is the "right" direction for Hawken. ADH couldn't make up their minds and stick with anything, instead they kept mucking things up. Hawken was a solid game out the gate, at that point it would have been perfectly acceptable to consider input from high tier players regarding balance. Instead ADH made sweeping change, after change, and here we are now.
What Hawken is now, is this what was originally envisioned Hawken should be, is this the Hawken that got everyone excited at E3 2012?
For me personally Hawken should be something closer to this, aesthetically (gritty map color pallet, dust, smoke, audio, HUD, speed, and the way flight is handled. Hawken today is not even close to what that game was, and I'm not convinced straying so far from the original was a good idea. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Balance changes could have been made, and I'm convinced the large sweeping meta changes were completely unnecessary. One could argue these huge changes nuked Hawken's player base and ultimately lead to a slow death. What we're left with now has split the community, some say the older Hawken was better, others argue the current Hawken is almost perfect. At this point it's up to the devs to make a decision, and I have a gut feeling not much is going to really change. I can't see them straying too far from the current state, because money. There needs to be a profit turned on this game, making big changes costs money.
Anyways, I can dream can't I?
Walk this same line again, sim / fast'ish shooter. This feel was just right.
Combat was much more grounded. The big thing AC, and the fuel dodge change did was pretty much break the maps. In this video the gameplay compliments the map design quite well, and I'd argue is the ideal style of gameplay for Hawken. It scratches the mech sim itch, but still maintains the ferocity and speed to satisfy more hardcore FPS fans. Nice balance.
I feel like i should put this here as people keep talking about "High Tier"
Regardless of this thing's age, its still incredibly inaccurate at the top level because we don't have 10k players anymore and those of us who broke 2k got hella better.
Regardless of this thing's age, its still incredibly inaccurate at the top level because we don't have 10k players anymore and those of us who broke 2k got hella better.
I feel like i should put this here as people keep talking about "High Tier"
*data*
That looks like its based on a statistical analysis assuming a normal distribution given the mean and stdev you have, and I think it's safe to say the mmr distribution is not normal enough for that assumption be sound. When I got data from Ashfire in early December, top 1% was 1904 mmr.
That looks like its based on a statistical analysis assuming a normal distribution given the mean and stdev you have, and I think it's safe to say the mmr distribution is not normal enough for that assumption be sound. When I got data from Ashfire in early December, top 1% was 1904 mmr.
Its the same data. And you're right about the distribution.
Again, irrelevant because the bulk of those are accounts that no longer play and probably barely played.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the play time of accounts and eliminate any under a month. Hell, a week.
*sigh*, I didn't say if it was relevant or not. I just said what the data was and when it was from. People are saying things like 'over <insert and arbitrary number> mmr is high tier' which has no basis on facts. Unfortunately this is the best data I have.
The forums are making people really argumentative.
I really hope the devs take this as seriously as the community is. I may not agree with everyones opinion on here regarding the game, but it's clear we are all passionate about Hawken and we all want the best Hawken. Only problem is the number of differing opinions regarding what makes the best Hawken. Reloaded is in a bit of a lose lose position with the forum community. They almost have to take that loss and try appealing to a broader mech or arena shooter audience to grow a bit more. We can argue all we want about the validity of the Steam chart data but those numbers need to, at the very least, double or triple for long term sustainability.
Edited by Superkamikazee, 30 March 2015 - 02:12 PM.
*sigh*, I didn't say if it was relevant or not. I just said what the data was and when it was from. People are saying things like 'over <insert and arbitrary number> mmr is high tier' which has no basis on facts. Unfortunately this is the best data I have.
The forums are making people really argumentative.
No, that's just Amid :)
Seriously, though, Ash is working on the data, I've offered to do some interesting sorts of analysis on it.
we just gotta make sure its not toooo much of an arena shooter game to turn off potential new players or if it is then at least make it an arena shooter fun enough that it can invite them. oh and for the love of all the starving children in the world would you fix the cash shop for end game players or plz give us cosmetic gun skins we can buy for hc. I dunno give us the razzle dazzle weve been promised for so long
I play this game every day... yet never noticed this Opinion Poll. I play the game daily, but I only come to the forums once in a while. How long did the poll run?
I would certainly like to see this poll run again with more inclusion, more notice and a longer time to vote.
I can hardly believe some of the results as I simply don't feel I've seen that much support for some of these "overwhelming opinions". For example, I keep seeing lots of support for returning much of the game to pre-steam and pre-ascension - which means a slower ground speed, less air time and longer dodging intervals. I'm also surprised to see so much support for ditching the "weapon raise delay".
The hi skilled players tend to play the small mechs. Without that input as to what a person plays one does not know the prudjices involved.
I would like infinite armor and I play a G2 assault and the speed of a scout with secondary lazer melting weapons ....
The tech is a great way to kill the A class off because aiming when sucking there life away is not a factor. Perhaps that is why the tech seems to be hated?
So I think a new survey with favorite mechs played and mmr should be considered.
The hi skilled players tend to play the small mechs. Without that input as to what a person plays one does not know the prudjices involved.
Most (arguably all) of the high-skilled players are comfortable with multiple mechs, A classes amongst them. Competitive play features B and C classes very heavily atm - and not simply because there are class restrictions for league play. Incinerator, Brawler, Grenadier, and Assault form the backbone of many competitive teams.
The hi skilled players tend to play the small mechs. Without that input as to what a person plays one does not know the prudjices involved.
I would like infinite armor and I play a G2 assault and the speed of a scout with secondary lazer melting weapons ....
The tech is a great way to kill the A class off because aiming when sucking there life away is not a factor. Perhaps that is why the tech seems to be hated?
So I think a new survey with favorite mechs played and mmr should be considered.
i think the mmr by mech distribution would be interesting to see.
"but the dead horse has been beaten so many times it's practically a pulpy mess in the barn by now."
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