48 replies to this topic

[hestoned]

from the xbox forum. a thread complaining about lack of content

forum user 1
"This saddens me, I'm all about customization. I love to get those items that give no bonus or anything, they just look different, I collect stuff like that."

forum user 2
"As a console player, my first impressions of this game are awful. The lack of customization is what really irked me. I was under the impression that I could practically build my own meg with different parts and weapons. I will not be returning to play it."

forum user 3
"I am going to say this game is a 95% FAILED Port-Over attempt, consoles players like customization too were not just mindless drones that want 0 customization and just another stereo-typical game thinking consoles players hate choices/options (This is NOT a rant post). I truly want to know WHY the Devs. thought giving 0 items & 0 Weapons were a good idea?"

[KejiGoto]

I'm going to laugh so hard if Reloaded ends up reverting the mechs back to how they currently are on the PC because this new setup isn't going over well.

 

In fact I really hope that's what happens and then Hawken takes off.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I'm going to laugh so hard if Reloaded ends up reverting the mechs back to how they currently are on the PC because this new setup isn't going over well.

 

In fact I really hope that's what happens and then Hawken takes off.

 

actually I'd just shed a few tears of joy

[ArchMech]

i was somewhat intrigued by the thought of no freedom of choice "howken", i figured it would have potential since just about all of hawken is still there, but i figured it would need to be its own game mode separate from "hawkens" freedom, it would also have to of been based on prosk/sentium being more strict with their manufacturing/mass production guidelines and their pilots in a lore sense that wouldve made things marginally excusable 

 

whatever its fixable and as i heard options are still on the table for the way "hawken" is going forward i gotta ask devs more questions (btw the devs are answering questions now) 

just gotta know how to reach out to them

Edited by ArchMech, 02 July 2016 - 09:50 AM.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

I still don't understand why they set up the mechs the way they are now on the consoles. Seems to me to have been a lot more work doing like this rather than porting over the existing format. Hopefully the devs will learn the error of their ways on this one and come around as the console roar gets louder.

[Nov8tr]

Don't forget Wm............people buy grey cars, clothes and furniture. The most boring color on Earth. So yeahhhhhh.............

[Hyginos]

This was completely avoidable on so many levels.

[MomOw]

items and internals weren't that imbalanced, beside AC and orblording ...

It really seems that keeping orblord brawler and removing items/internals costumization was not a good move.

[Anichkov3]

In reality the game does not need mechs and camouflage. We need new exciting and unique game modes. 

I hope the developers seriously think about it and ask for help from the community.

 

It seems to me that none of the developers is not a good player console. And that's why I thought so. And that is why we hear the unflattering reviews of the new XBox players: On consoles there are excellent simulators mechs - Armored Core, Front Mission. They are very different from Hawken. Because these games TTX mech depends on a variety of details that players can change. So no need to even try to compete with these games - you need to more persistently and qualitatively to work on the Hawken.

[Flifang]

I have a feeling quite a few of these decisions were made because people at microsoft and sony playtested the builds, didn't like them how they were, and gave them an ultimatum. I've explained hawken's situation to a few friends and their literal first conclusion they came to even before I finished explaining was that it must have been the big sign on's doing the tweaking decisions.  

[TheFrostnessMonster]

They aren't going to revert anything, they are most likely going to plod along, doing whatever they want, until they suddenly realize that they have almost no players and a horrible reputation, then they will wonder what went wrong.

 

By then it will probably be too late.  Again...

[DallasCreeper]

There is a spark of customization hope. While the upper "head" parts of mechs are locked, arms, torsos and legs are not. So while you can't have a tiger raider and an edgy nemesis Assault with all the special parts, you can have a tiger assault or edgy nemesis raider. 

[teeth_03]

I made a PSA post in Xbox general pointing out that you can't customize (people were asking how to do it, pointed out that some of the ingame and website text said you could), and it got deleted.

[DingdongJR]

They aren't going to revert anything, they are most likely going to plod along, doing whatever they want, until they suddenly realize that they have almost no players and a horrible reputation, then they will wonder what went wrong.

 

By then it will probably be too late.  Again...

 

[Bergwein]

I made a PSA post in Xbox general pointing out that you can't customize (people were asking how to do it, pointed out that some of the ingame and website text said you could), and it got deleted.

 

Well then, ladies and gentlemen.

 

...

 

[Shade__]

Well then, ladies and gentlemen.
 
...
 

I shed a single tear... For all that is going on devs and community, console launch and pc update. I'm waiting but sad and fearful.

[LadyTiggs]

We never said that we wouldn't have customization on consoles. It will return down the road after it gets an overhaul.  

[Miscellaneous]

We never said that we wouldn't have customization on consoles. It will return down the road after it gets an overhaul.  

 

Can you expand on this?

 

What will be returning? Item customisation? Internal customisation? Weapon customisation? Mech torso customisation? I think most of us would prefer it if all four came back. 

 

What does the overhaul entail? I can understand if you can't give us specifics right now, but a vague idea would be nice.

 

Regardless, thanks for at least talking to us. It is greatly appreciated. 

[KejiGoto]

We never said that we wouldn't have customization on consoles. It will return down the road after it gets an overhaul.  

 

This is the kind of information that goes a long ways in keeping people in the loop and generally okay with changes that are going on.

 

Not sure why this is hard to understand...

 

All everyone is seeing is Hawken getting released on consoles with far less options and customization. We can't use our Professor Xavier mind reading powers to figure out that what is currently available is a very basic setup that will be expanded upon as other systems are overhauled. How are we to know customization was gonna come back when there is no sign or hint of it anywhere in the current console build?

 

It's great that you guys released stats and stuff after being begged for that information but this kind of stuff goes a long ways as well. Not just PC players but consoles players as well who clearly want to see these options. Giving your ENTIRE AUDIENCE an idea of where things are heading with this neat thing called a ROAD MAP does a great job at ensuring the development team and the community are all on the same page or at the very least in the same book so people can easily be pointed to where things currently are.

 

Right now it feels like the blind leading the blind over at Reloaded but you're expecting everyone to have faith in you yet you've given us no reason to have faith in the changes that we've seen. 

 

Quit hording this kind of information and let everyone know with official updates. Stop waiting around for Josh to type something up, get it approved, and then post it a day later. Quit dropping teases and updates in Twitch stream chats. Quit going on TS to correct information. You've got an official website with official forums where you can make official announcements so how about ya start using it instead of getting harassed into releasing information by an angry community that clearly doesn't understand the plans that Reloaded has in place because Reloaded is playing the internet version of the game Telephone where information starts on Twitch, goes to TS, gets reposted on the IRC, someone updates Reddit with this news, and by the time it gets here or anywhere else people aren't sure if it's real, a joke, or what to think.

 

I'm seeing this everywhere too, not just on here. On Steam people are confused, on Reddit people are confused, in Twitch streams people are confused. Instead of running around a burning house with a small bucket of water trying to fight this out of control fire just grab the hose and drown it cause clearly the currently approach isn't working and is only gonna hamper Hawken in the long and short run.

 

In other words you guys are blowing your first impression and you only get one of those.

[TangledMantis]

Sorry, kindof out of the loop..

 

So I knew they were going to port hawken to console. Cool I guess. But they actually dumbed the whole game down? Why? Did they think somehow it was going to be better that way? I wish I was in the room when that conversation happened. Does it have to do with processing and memory usage on the consoles? I would assume they can handle it now. Maybe it was just for beta testing on the platform (which is dangerous with the rabid console peasants) 

 

Be it official launch or beta - if you put something out there, its your official launch. Im not looking at the PC Hawken relaunch as the "First".. only as an update and bug fix. 

 

As Keji implies - handling of the PR and progress on this game has been very messy. Being organized isnt really that hard. Whos running the show up there?

[talon70]

We never said that we wouldn't have customization on consoles. It will return down the road after it gets an overhaul.  

Why tell us? Let the players know now that are leaving the consoles never ever to return to the hawken universe.

 

So the plan was a money grab on the console releases and then an overhaul? Thats what I just read

[DieselCat]

Why tell us? Let the players know now that are leaving the consoles never ever to return to the hawken universe.

 

So the plan was a money grab on the console releases and then an overhaul? Thats what I just read

 

You may be onto something there talon...

 

And I was under the impression that all this super secret work on porting the game over to console was the overhaul...what have the folks at RLD been doing for the past year and a half ?  (besides [imo] mucking up things)

[Tac_Spoon]

I have to say, as a console player myself, I was excited too see the game be released on Xbox, Unfortunately we got a gutted game per-say. The coming days before the launch I spent hours watching  videos of all the mechs and weapons to figure out which one I would try to obtain first. I decided the reaper was the mech for me, I liked the idea of a light mid range mech, so I bought it with MC. When I reached mech level 3, which was not easy do too the sever issues, i was ecstatic to finally get my Hawken-RPR. This was not the case and after hours of searching I found out that there is no customizing my mech to my play style. I informed my group of friends that I played with and I am sad too say that the general census is there is no real reason to play because progression is not rewarded. We are all really disappointed and highly confused as to why they took this out. Hope they give us the ablity to build to our liking otherwise the longevity of this game is limited.    

[Duralumi]

We never said that we wouldn't have customization on consoles. It will return down the road after it gets an overhaul.  

But why does the system already in place on the PC need an overhaul in the first place?

[Superkamikazee]

Of there's going to be customization down the road, why release he game without it? Ruining the games reputation and reception, then release improvements.

[crockrocket]

I'm guessing the new UI is at least part of the reason customization was removed for the time being. I'm sure Jay's untimely passing was a major setback in this regard.

[DemitronPrime]

I'm guessing the new UI is at least part of the reason customization was removed for the time being. I'm sure Jay's untimely passing was a major setback in this regard.

 

I tend to agree here

 

though im slightly more inclined to think it has to do with the weird weapon swaps etc etc

 

I mean atm the Incin on the web page is armed with an SMC and a B4by lol

 

36m has 2 papas...

 

I mean they have shuffled so much that it has NO DOUBT broke fuzzy bunny

[Sylhiri]

Of there's going to be customization down the road, why release he game without it? Ruining the games reputation and reception, then release improvements.

 

They have to learn how to make videa gaems somehow. 

[DemitronPrime]

 

Well apprently we can put a SMC on an incin LOL!!!!1

[obliviondoll]

The issue with lacking customisation is that console mech gamers are used to Armored Core.

 

It's a series of console-exclusive mech games with a HUGE emphasis on customisation to the point that even the most simplistic games in the franchise put the lie to the whole concept of console games being dumbed down for their platform.

 

Coming from those games even to the most flexible of PC Hawken builds will leave players feeling like they're missing out. I know that as a long-time Armored Core player, Hawken always felt like a more basic game. And I also want to know more about the future customisation that will be added (or brought back) for console and the future of PC. Because customisation is really, REALLY important.

[DemitronPrime]

-snip-

 

 

To be honest its a completely different style but the options seem almost in line with current hawken...

 

this new Hoarken However has much less

[obliviondoll]

 

 

To be honest its a completely different style but the options seem almost in line with current hawken...

 

this new Hoarken However has much less

 

AC Customisation is MASSIVELY more intricate than Hawken's has ever been.

 

I'll just use the example you picked up, from the 5th-gen games (ACV and Verdict Day), which are comparatively simplistic as the series goes.

 

Hawken: Every machine has precisely 1 primary weapon, no more, no less, and precisely 1 secondary weapon, no more, no less. Mechs can also equip a limited number of equipment items which can act as support for weapons (but rarely as weapons in their own right). Weapons available are limited by the chassis selected, with "legacy" Mechs having up to 3 primary weapons available and rarely (if ever) get to change their secondary.

 

Armored Core: Most machines have the ability to equip 1 weapon in each hand, and 1 backup weapon for each in that arm's "bay" slot. Ultimate Weapons mount on the machine's back and lock both bay slots, while weapon arms have a built-in heavy weapon in place of their bay slots. Heavy weapons can't be swapped out (except when fitted on weapon arms) and have to be discarded before the bay weapon can be used. Also, other than tanks, ACs need to lock themselves into place in "ready position" when firing heavy weapons. Shoulder units can provide support systems and assistance weapons like Hawken's equipment, but some shoulder units are capable weapons in their own right.

 

 

Hawken: Every mech has fixed health value, fixed movement speed, fixed fuel capacity, and the ability to equip internals which can adjust some of these stats.

 

AC: Health or "AP" needs to be balanced against 3 types of defense providing damage resistance against different weapon types, and every frame part provides different amounts of AP and each defense type. The legs provide the largest amount of protection in every regard, but defenses are always heavily biased toward one type, necessitating the core, arms and legs to help cover the other defenses. The core provides a fairly significant boost to both AP and defense values, with arms providing much less, and the head typically only allows for minor tweaks to the final values. The closest equivalent to fuel is energy. Generators have different capabilities in terms of weight, energy capacity (max "fuel") and output. Every single part has an energy consumption rating which subtracts from the output to determine the final recharge rate. Boosters have a passive consumption rating, and also drain a certain amount of energy either constantly when using "glide boost" (for constant high-speed movement) or in chunks with "high boosts" (dodging). Unlike Hawken, certain weapons also deplete energy (so it acts as a hybrid fuel/heat gauge for machines using such weapons, while other weapons are limited only by ammo). Movement speed is not affected only by the booster, either. Legs have a significant effect on movement speed as well as each type providing different alterations to how movement works, and the head provides a fairly noticable modifier to movement speed as well. Alongside these, the core applies modifiers to booster energy use and the duration of high boosts. Also, every single part has a "weight" value which is used in speed calculations, making two ACs with identical frames and boosters move at different speeds based on the weight of their weapons and internals.

 

And if you want to look at something ACTUALLY complex, there's way more to worry about in the 2nd- and 3rd-gen games, which are in many places still more popular than the newest games.

[Duralumi]

The issue with lacking customisation is that console mech gamers are used to Armored Core.

 

It's a series of console-exclusive mech games with a HUGE emphasis on customisation to the point that even the most simplistic games in the franchise put the lie to the whole concept of console games being dumbed down for their platform.

 

Coming from those games even to the most flexible of PC Hawken builds will leave players feeling like they're missing out. I know that as a long-time Armored Core player, Hawken always felt like a more basic game. And I also want to know more about the future customisation that will be added (or brought back) for console and the future of PC. Because customisation is really, REALLY important.

 

Except you're forgetting that Armored Core and Hawken are two different styles of games.

You're also forgetting that Armored Core is a very niche series, and that not all people interested in Hawken may be self-proclaimed "mech aficionados".

To assume that mech game fans value complex customization above all is very biased. The depth of customization is an important aspect, certainly. But it's not the end-all of things.

Hawken is an arena shooter first. Multiple damage-types, 10 different customization slots (multiple weapon bays, internal CPU, generators, etc.), like 30 different variables (many of which are affected by multiple of aforementioned slots), all of those things have no place in a game that hopes to be balanced.

One of three primary weapons, a couple of deployables, a couple of internal "perks", and decent cosmetic customization was all that was needed for Hawken.

 

I like Gundam EXVS and I like Front Mission, but I don't feel like I'm "missing out" just because the former has literally no customization, while the latter has a decent amount. Because one is a fighting game and the other is an SRPG.

Edited by Duralumi, 04 July 2016 - 12:40 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

I think it's always a bad move to release a game that is unfinished.  "Unfinished" doesn't mean "no future updates" or "no new features"... but it does mean don't release a game (or any product) which is lacking in basic, expected functionality or which may not provide the best first impression - an impression which will overshadow any and all future potential.

 

Some obvious ones:

 

• Only one possible, unchangeable controller setup.  Unforgivable to so many players - players who will find themselves unable to enjoy the game at the most elementary level.
• No customization of the weapons, internals, items or chassis.  This is just expected, intuitive, core functionality in this age... and has been for a long time.
• No required tutorial.  Tutorials may seem a bit annoying to those who have played a game before.  Even to some new players (who think that they are already awesome at all games by default) a tutorial feels like a nuisance.  But a good tutorial that actually lays the groundwork for getting new players up to speed with a true understanding of how the game, game modes and functions of the game work is paramount for any online multiplayer experience.  And it helps the not-so-new players as much as the newbies when it comes time for them to get into online matches - so they aren't on the giving end of throwing the team into chaos and the receiving end of a litany of hatred from teammates.

[Arkhaun]

I'm going to laugh so hard if Reloaded ends up reverting the mechs back to how they currently are on the PC because this new setup isn't going over well.

 

In fact I really hope that's what happens and then Hawken takes off.

 

                                        HOPE

 

[Arkhaun]

 

To assume that mech game fans value complex customization above all is very biased. The depth of customization is an important aspect, certainly. But it's not the end-all of things.

 

I too main assault

 

 

assault rifle assault is only assault

[devotion]

assault rifle assault is only assault

vulcan is bae, smc is good for lifting entire teams.

[Arkhaun]

vulcan is bae, smc is good for lifting entire teams.

if you must...

[N1NJ4S34N]

As a long time Hawken player on pc I have some things to add. I have been playing on the Xbox for a couple days and I don't understand this gripe fest. I am grade five on the recruit mech and it unlocks a basic customization for the mech body. It unlocks the weapons seen in the pc build. I have already seen the pay to win players in late mechs with rank five twin seekers on a light mech so I can clarify there is a small amount of customization options in the current build.

 

The game looks great, feels smooth but does have some bugs. Mostly in team balancing with a party, and connection loss, so net code issues that aren't game breaking cause they are only happening in moderate occurrences.

 

I was disappointed in the mech progression at first, however not being a pay to win player I now enjoy the feel of playing through mechs to get to the better ones. The internals can be upgraded but not switched it seems or at least I think. Most of it seems to be in consumables now. This may have been a move to make it more of class based tactical mech shooter as the consumables and internals are specific to each mech.

 

For my final say and to summarize, Mechs have basic customization options at rank five for weapons and chassis'. There is a neat progression system that gets you into all the mech class' if you are not a pay to win player. In future updates based on what I have played on the current build I would guarantee about an 80% chance of these options improving and being increased in amount of customization for each mech. It may not compare to Armored Core: Final Stand but that's the fourth or fifth installment in a series. Give it some time and a chance to improve. Hope you find this encouraging and I hope it subdues some fears you are having about customization options in the game.

[StubbornPuppet]

^But just the fact that you use the phrase "Pay to Win" three times in your post, using the term "upgrade" when talking about mechs and weapons, and  even say, "...to get the better ones (mechs)" is cause for great concern.

 

I suppose it reads more like you are considering "Pay to Win" to mean "Pay Not to Grind", which I'm not opposed to at all.  

 

I'm totally opposed to "upgrades".  Any time that any weapon or mech is better than any other, at any pilot level, creates both imbalance and obsoletion.  It also is the path directly to meta-builds - a path which ends at the intersection of boredom and stagnation.

 

But, we are living in a world where just saying "Pay to Win" in the same sentence you are talking about a game is a proverbial death knell.  "Pay Not to Grind" is simply not a phrase that people normally say (and it doesn't roll off the tongue).  So, just the fact that even a long-term Hawken player is using the phrase Pay to Win and Upgrade still imply exactly what they say, "You must spend money to get those things which are better or you will lose."

 

This is not me sounding said "death knell", I'm still very hopeful for the future of Hawken.  This is me just speaking up when I hear something/read something that sets off warning klaxons in my head.