125 replies to this topic

[harmless_kittens]

Sorry to bring this up again, but for the past couple nights this has been bothering me.  I keep hearing so many "smurf" players saying that they "had" to start a new account because they couldn't find any matches in their skill bracket - i.e. their MMR was too high.  This statement gives the impression that there are/were a lot more new players than veterans.  Perhaps this was once true.  I don't know because I've only been here a few months.

 

But in the last week I have noticed that it is I, and players like me, who cannot find matches at our skill levels.  I am still sub-1600 MMR, and I am lucky to find ONE "3 Star" match over the course of 3 hours.  I found 2 over 3 hours last night, and one was in Asia or Europe.  In fact I am far more likely to find 2 and 3 star matches outside the US :(  At one point last night I was encouraged to see 8 TDM matches that I could choose from in the US going on at one time, but SEVEN of them were 1 Star matches, and the other was a 2 Star.  This was extremely discouraging for a weaker/casual player like myself.

 

Now, if I understand the Star System correctly, this is telling me that there are a ton of 2200 MMR + players out there, and not many of us sub 1600 players.  It seems that all this talk of updates and the release on PS4 and XB1 has brought some old veterans back for a while too.  That's terrific, and I'm not complaining about that.

 

What I AM complaining about, again, are the smurfs in those very rare 3 Star Matches.  Yes, they/you are STILL there stomping on the rest of us.  Many of you are even sarcastic enough to name your new account "smurf" just to rub it in our faces I guess.

 

What I am humbling requesting, again, is that you simply stop playing the smurf accounts and let us "lower tier" players have our fun.  You cannot make the argument that no one at your main's MMR is playing any more.  But I CAN make the argument that hardly anyone at MY skill level is playing anymore.  Do you have any idea what it feels like for a player like myself to enter a match that the game tells me should be on my skill level, and have a final score of 40-5, with someone on the other team with 20+ kills and over 600 points, leaving the rest of us in the dust?  Then I run an "srd" and everyone here is SOMEHOW under 1650 MMR.  Yeah, you're awesome.  You can beat up newbies.  Congratulations.  Now go play with "the big boys" again and let me know how that works out for you.  Do you not care that you are ruining new players' enjoyment of the game?

 

I just issue this as a warning before the death of this game (on the PC) occurs.  It seems we have one last chance in a couple months to get a good influx of new PC players, when the update occurs.  And if those brand new players have the same experience that I have had of late in their "3 Star" matches, I weep for the future of this game on the PC.

 

I'm taking another break for a while until this situation improves and I can find more "3 Star" matches, and pray that they are actually legit.  As always, thanks for listening.

[StubbornPuppet]

It wouldn't matter anyhow.  At any MMR level, you can queue up for a game type and it will eventually put you in a match, regardless of your "fitness rating" for that match.  This applies to both the upper and lower MMR range.

 

People who say that they cannot find a match at their normal fitness range, so they had to create an alt account either don't know about using the queue... or they're lying.

[Amidatelion]

Electricity first came to Venezuela in an industrial capacity the 1880s and was widespread in urban centres by the 1910s. But full penetration of the country was only accomplished after World War II and the oil sector was nationalized in the 70s, leading to ups and downs in the energy sector for the next three decades. By the 1990s however, the majority of the country's electricity was from hydro, making it one of the most ecologically sound and advanced nations in the world.

 

In the 1990s first person shooters were represented by Doom and Doomclones. Matchmaking was done by IP - you literally had to know the address of the server you wanted to connect to. Server browers were websites. Those eventually made it into the games themselves and slowly we entered into the golden age of FPSs: Quake 3 Arena, UT, etc. Games where the only way to tell your true skill was attending and getting owned at tournaments, LANs and ladders. The advent of console shooters and the massive popularization of videogames through the consoles themselves brought playlists and matchmaking. The popularization of ELO and MMR from League of Legends has lead to the recent standardization of matchmaking by questionable/inaccurate/highly suspect algorithms that rely on large quantities of statistical data.

 

These days, due to poor economic decisions and bureaucracy, Venezuela's once massively advanced energy industry cannot be brought to bear to expand its infrastructure to meet growing modern needs. Rolling blackouts in urban centers are common and whole villages have been without electricity for years. Citizens light their homes with candles or pool resources to buy gas generators for what electricity they can manage.  

 

These days, due to poor economic decisions and lack of advertising, communication and you know what this is getting tl;dr etc., Hawken's once perfectly functional matchmaking algorithm cannot be brought to bear on the game because there are approximately 300 people playing, globally. MMR means nothing. Stars mean nothing. There are no lights and the only candle is your own skill.

 

You are mad because you are getting stomped. If Luna or Crafty or Imaginary or some other endemic smurfer/alter/whatthefuzzever showed up in your game on their mains, and they would still be showing up, you would still be mad. But if you're going to make the argument that no one at your MMR is playing anymore, you don't get to wag your finger. In the past three months I have personally watched three new players worse than you, improve to 1800 and beyond and they did that because they were willing to learn, die and improve. You have stated you don't want to do this, fine and well. That is your choice and no one can take it from you. But you don't get to complain when others surpass you and leave you behind in skill. Hawken, no matter what kind of category we try to place it in, eventually distills into a competitive FPS. And when all else fails (and let's not kid ourselves, all else has failed) the only thing you can rely on is your own skills. 

 

So light a damn candle, pool your resources and make a lowbie community group to play with, or well...

 

Welcome to the third world, kittens. Want luxuries like a functional matchmaking system and "fair" games? Emigrate.

[harmless_kittens]

Yeah, I see I am definitely right to take a break now.  Sorry that my improving from 1400 to 1600 isn't good enough for your standards.  Gonna bite my tongue on all the rest.  Bye guys.

Edited by harmless_kittens, 06 July 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I played you in my main, kittens. All my matches as Ishmael last weekend were 0-star MM specials.

[Stormwalker42]

 

So light a damn candle, pool your resources and make a lowbie community group to play with, or well...

 

Good point.  Why can't you do the same?   If a couple of higher MMR players join a server, wouldn't that server be open to more higher MMR players?

 

Not everyone has the time or urge to learn a game to that level.  They just want to play among people of their own skill.   They are casual gamers and will never be anything but.  

The lengths you went to prove your point, shows me that all you care about is your own ability to play.   One of the reasons there are "only 300 players globally" is because people like you, keep chasing new and casual players away.

Another point is, the game is NOT finished.  Perhaps there are people out there that (aside from being casual players in the first place) don't want to spend more than a little time to learn a broken, unfinished game.   They will only have to learn the new rules and balances once the game is updated and released.   This is one thing most of the vets seem to gloss over, you have learned a extremely high skill level at a broken game.  Kind of meaningless if you ask me.  

 

I would much sooner believe that the higher MMR players don't play among themselves, because they want these ridiculous K/D ratios and other worthless numbers like that.   They know for a fact that if they are playing among people of their own skill, they won't be able to get 20 to 1 K/D ratios and show off among the other high MMR players.

The OP is correct, there are more smurfs and more higher MMR players appearing since the announcement of the upcoming changes.   I have seen them dominate and chase away a number of new players with comments like "Why do you even bother playing?".  Or rage quitting with a comment like "newbteam".  It is interesting to note that there are during the peak times, usually about 7 or 8 servers, each with 3-4 high MMR or smurf players.  If you do the math, that is more than enough for two servers at the higher levels.   Yet you choose to play among the low MMR servers anyway.

The problem is not that there are just 300 or so players.   The problem is that there are just a handful of REALLY good players.  If most of the higher MMR players played among those few on a regular basis, it would negatively effect those numbers that are oh so important to their ego. 

 

This attitude has already had a major negative influence on the player base for the past couple of years.  The OP is right, if we do not create an environment for those casual players to come and enjoy and want to spend money on the game, the servers won't be profitable and the devs are just going to close the PC servers.

That's one point that the vets don't seem to get.   There are a lot more casual players out there, then there are people like you.   If you let them, they will be happy to play the game, put in money and keep the game alive so you can run around and dominate each other all you want.    Your negative, domineering attitude is not going to make them anything but casual players.   They will not suddenly want to learn to be on your level.  That's not why they play these games.  They will take their money elsewhere and unless the 150 or so higher level players are going to put in a boat load of money, you won't have the game to play anymore.   Is that what you want?

[TheButtSatisfier]

I'm taking another break for a while until this situation improves and I can find more "3 Star" matches, and pray that they are actually legit.

 

3-star matches are a brief snapshot in time of a server's average MMR. It only takes a few people leaving or joining to rapidly shift a 3-star (for you) to a 2 or 1 star. Put another way, if your measure of pleasure is by how many 3-star matches you see when you lock eyes with the server browser, then you're gonna have a bad time.

 

I understand your call for the community to stop smurfing. You've posted a number of times on the topic, and you've stated your position on why it's bad in those posts. But making another post asking people to stop smurfing isn't going to change anything, and I can deduce that because your previous posts asking for the same didn't have a measurable impact on the issue - so why should it have an impact now?

 

As Amid also pointed out, assuming we have a relatively static number of Hawken pilots with little turnover, it's possible that more pilots are moving out of your skill bracket than new ones are entering it.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 06 July 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

it's possible that more pilots are moving out of your skill bracket than new ones are entering it.

This is what Amid suggested, if no one wanted to read the wall of text.

[TheButtSatisfier]

UGH 

 

Okay I'm going to use this accidental post to muse a bit.

 

The number of stars a player sees in a server browser reflects the distance between the player's MMR and the server average MMR, right? If I recall correctly, doesn't the star rating appear the same regardless if that MMR difference is positive or negative?

 

Put another way, wouldn't a server average that is 300 MMR below my account have the same star rating as a server with an average that is 300 MMR above my account?

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 06 July 2016 - 01:20 PM.

[TheButtSatisfier]

This is what Amid suggested, if no one wanted to read the wall of text.

 

I did see that, and I've edited my previous comment to give due credit.

[ARCH3TYP3]

Some of you may know me, others, not. My MMR is 2250, for what it's worth.

I have had PLENTY of matches where I am teamed up with 2 other 1600 MMR players and we are going against 4 1800 players who stomp us 40-15, or worse. It happens quite often.

As to the suggestion that higher MMR players are avoiding high MMR matches, it is pure nonsense.
In my case:
1. I always simply enter the TDM queue and wind up wherever...unless it times out, in which case
2. I go to the server browser and guess what? There are ZERO three star matches available. Every server will be 1 or zero stars with 12/12 players. It's pretty much always been this way for me since surpassing 2150 MMR.
For high tier players (what I consider those in the 2300+ range) the situation must logically be even worse.

To top it all off, when I'm dumped into a game at 5 minutes with lower MMR players and we're losing 17-4, and we come back to win 30-27, I get called a botter, game killer and speed hacker.

Be open to the possibility that the perspectives of others are just as valid as your own.

[EM1O]

i'm not good, and likely never will be.  but if i find myself in a match with a vet or a smurf i recognized, it's game-on!  nothing beats the exhilliration of a rip fest.  and occasionally i'll vulture a couple of solid kills on high-tier players, get my butt soundly thumped, end with a 2 11 8 score, maybe upped my MMR a couple points, learned by fighting someone 1000 MMR higher than me, and absolutely had a smashing good time.

it is what you make it, Kittens.

[StubbornPuppet]

UGH 

 

Okay I'm going to use this accidental post to muse a bit.

 

The number of stars a player sees in a server browser reflects the distance between the player's MMR and the server average MMR, right? If I recall correctly, doesn't the star rating appear the same regardless if that MMR difference is positive or negative?

 

Put another way, wouldn't a server average that is 300 MMR below my account have the same star rating as a server with an average that is 300 MMR above my account?

 

I do not know the actual MMR separation values... but here's what I do know:

 

3 stars is a very close match.
2 stars could either be that the match is a little above your range OR a little below your range.
1 star could either be way above your range OR way below your range.

 

The biggest problem is the total ambiguity of the 2 and 1 star matches.  You have no idea, until you've been in the match for a while, whether you're the top dog or in over your head.

 

And this idiotic Star system is baffling to new players.  Someone literally has to explain it to them personally, like 3 times, before it makes even a little sense (which is giving the system more credit than it deserves).

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 06 July 2016 - 02:33 PM.

[ATX22]

Yeah, I see I am definitely right to take a break now.  Sorry that my improving from 1400 to 1600 isn't good enough for your standards.  Gonna bite my tongue on all the rest.  Bye guys.

 

That's how it starts... then you find another game, eventually uninstalling Hawken and moving on... 

[talon70]

 If a couple of higher MMR players join a server, wouldn't that server be open to more higher MMR players?

No. It does not work that way. In fact I am pretty sure when the server matchmaking gets really messed up and the spread is 1300-2900, It may be zero stars for everyone, high or low. It is just not good for anyone and should shut down and  everyone thrown back to queue to be rematched.

 

It doesnt take much before there are no servers you can manually join. Many players have no choice but to let match maker put them wherever it feels like at the moment. That is the problem. I think there should be a level where you can not join down. Maybe 18-1900. Let lower mmr level be restricted. You should be able to join up in level but not down.

 

Matchmaking got messed up to accommodate top players so they wouldn't have to smurf and could find a match FAST and that was wrong and never undone for some reason. 

 

 

edit: other games have a feature where instead of waiting, you get thrown into a scrimmage type server until you can be matched. THAT is what herken should have!

Edited by talon70, 06 July 2016 - 03:06 PM.

[crockrocket]

What time of day do you normally play kittens? I know I've seen you on outside of peak hours before and when that's the case there are at best a handful of matches in NA, but quite often there are only one or two active matches outside of peak hours. That means every single person playing in that region is going to end up in one of those two matches.

 

Besides that, even during peak hours the population is no longer active enough to support proper matchmaking. The issue at this point isn't even smurfs, all though those don't help. (2300 + 1800 + 1500 + 1500 +1600 +1600) / 6 = SRD 1500, and you can extrapolate that to a full server. The 2300 obviously is going to stomp, and even the 1800 will probably still be skilled enough to seem like a smurf, even if that is their legitimate mmr.

[DieselCat]

I would quit worrying about whether a match has 1,2 or 3 stars.....if possible look for the servers you know you get good performance on and just play...also, have noticed you leaving matches early or not staying around when that match has completed. Stay at least for a few rounds so teams get a chance to balance out a bit better. You know as well as anyone that these issues won't change till we get many more players (if that's even possible)

Chin up dude...and play hard 

[6ixxer]

The number of stars a player sees in a server browser reflects the distance between the player's MMR and the server average MMR, right? If I recall correctly, doesn't the star rating appear the same regardless if that MMR difference is positive or negative?

Yes. a 1600 player will see a 1300 server as 1 star. Use Herokuapp to see which way it is, or join the server and ask Scrimbot for SRD.

Yeah, I see I am definitely right to take a break now.  Sorry that my improving from 1400 to 1600 isn't good enough for your standards.  Gonna bite my tongue on all the rest.  Bye guys.

 If not for timezone I'd come play. and maybe the stupid number of hours I've been working.
My rating is above yours, but I'd be held back somewhat by 200-300 ping.
Same as when CrockRocket came to play in Oceanic.
What time and zone do you play so I can work it out in my local time.
Cheers,
6ixxer

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Yes. a 1600 player will see a 1300 server as 1 star. Use Herokuapp to see which way it is, or join the server and ask Scrimbot for SRD.

 

 

!qs <region> <mode>

 

for example:  !qs na tdm

 

Will list the active servers, player count, and the rating in an integer number, such as -85.  That's a 1-star below my MMR.  A match with a score of 80 is actually above my MMR, and I'll have a challenge.

[Hyginos]

I would much sooner believe that the higher MMR players don't play among themselves, because they want these ridiculous K/D ratios and other worthless numbers like that.   They know for a fact that if they are playing among people of their own skill, they won't be able to get 20 to 1 K/D ratios and show off among the other high MMR players.

 

By my estimation Hawken has lost twice as much talent as it even has right now. There are no longer enough "high MMR" players to fill servers.

 

Funny really, because people used to complain that these players were inflating their MMRs by playing together, saying that they must not really be that good, and that the high MMRs they got only existed because they played with the same people all the time. That was probably at least a little bit correct, but nowadays War Wednesday, TPG events, Funtime Friday, and SSSDM just don't have the same population.

 

So what is one of these player with astronomical MMR to do? If some of the leet milges that are still around log in to Hawken they will almost without exception be the highest MMR players in the region, if not the world. If you're a 2600+ MMR player and the highest rated server on earth has an SRD that barely scrapes 2K do you expect that player to just GTFO? That player is just going to auto-queue and play the first server they are dropped in to.

[Amidatelion]

Good point.  Why can't you do the same?   If a couple of higher MMR players join a server, wouldn't that server be open to more higher MMR players?

 

Do you know when the vast majority of high MMR players play? Like, me included? Community events with other high MMR players. The ones we create specifically for this purpose. Did you think I just made the lowbie group idea up on the spot? The 3v3 cup last weekend was the first time I'd played since the last SSSDM. It was the first time I'd seen some of them in literally months.

 

 

I would much sooner believe that the higher MMR players don't play among themselves, because they want these ridiculous K/D ratios and other worthless numbers like that.   

 

I believe that. Because you'd rather believe something you made up than come to a reasoned conclusion based on actual evidence and knowledge of how the fuzzing community around you works.

 

Example: my behold glorious K/D ratio that I got stomping noobs and avoiding other vets. Oh, no, wait. That's right. It's terrible. I wonder why that is. You are literally delusional and ignorant.

[Stormwalker42]

Do you know when the vast majority of high MMR players play? Like, me included? Community events with other high MMR players. The ones we create specifically for this purpose. Did you think I just made the lowbie group idea up on the spot? The 3v3 cup last weekend was the first time I'd played since the last SSSDM. It was the first time I'd seen some of them in literally months.

 

 

 

I believe that. Because you'd rather believe something you made up than come to a reasoned conclusion based on actual evidence and knowledge of how the fuzzing community around you works.

 

Example: my behold glorious K/D ratio that I got stomping noobs and avoiding other vets. Oh, no, wait. That's right. It's terrible. I wonder why that is. You are literally delusional and ignorant.

 

It's funny how you talk evidence and knowledge and than quote ONE example.  Yourself.   That doesn't exactly count as strong evidence from where I stand.

If you bothered to read my post, I wasn't only talking about you.   Your attitude shows that you really don't care despite how you attempt to come across in the forums.  Fact is there are many higher MMR players found in lower MMR servers.   They are toxic and don't care that they are chasing people away.  They are arrogant, talk down to the people who are trying to just have fun and make it difficult to play on those servers.  They spend round after round in servers they know they outclass by 1000 points.   Making nasty comments about how other people play.   There are smurfs by the dozen out there, doing the same thing.  

While you may have a group playing on servers set aside for higher MMR players.  The EVIDENCE of alot of people complaining about smurfs and higher MMR players dominating lower end servers shows you are wrong.  The OP and I, are not the only ones.   We are a couple of the few who are willing to face the toxic community that the vets have created and call them out on it.   That doesn't mean it does not exist.   Not many people care to come on these forums and have nasty comments thrown at them just because they have the nerve to come out and take issue with something you KNOW despite your attempts to say otherwise, is a very real problem.   However being one of the high MMR players yourself, you won't take ownership of the problem, because you yourself don't want the nasty, toxic side of this community to ostracize you as well.  You try to play both sides of the fence at once, and pass it off as a problem not existing.

Fact is, these people have been destroying the community for years.   It can be said that they did as much damage to the PC servers, as the lack of updates has.   The new devs had NO choice but to go to a different venue first as they have with the console release.   Because this community has already decimated the PC servers.   They needed to try a different venue in an attempt to make more profits and keep the game going.   What does this same community do? They flame them for their attempts.  They come down hard on them for making business decisions that the community itself forced them into.  Very nice.

Despite what the devs have said to the contrary, I still believe the PC Servers fate is questionable.  I don't know if they can do anything to reverse the years of damage the toxic community has done to them.  I would love to see otherwise, but I honestly don't know.

[Amidatelion]

It's funny how you talk evidence and knowledge and than quote ONE example.  Yourself.   That doesn't exactly count as strong evidence from where I stand.

 

yeah never mind all those people I was playing against in the videos linked, or those events listed

 

 

While you may have a group playing on servers set aside for higher MMR players.  The EVIDENCE of alot of people complaining about smurfs and higher MMR players dominating lower end servers shows you are wrong.  

 

what evidence

 

where is this evidence

 

i would like to see this evidence

[PsychedelicGrass]

How many times do I have to explain that the vast majority of high mmr players DO NOT INTENTIONALLY JOIN LOW MMR SERVERS



99% of the time I'm playing there's literally NOBODY else playing that has a similar mmr to mine. Therefore my choices are as follows: play another game or play in whatever server matchmaker drops me in, which is usually the highest mmr server that exists at the time. I'm not going to not play my favorite game ever simply because there aren't many people around my mmr or whatever, that's silly, and I guarantee you I get about as much enjoyment stomping people as they do being rekt.

[Hyginos]

Fact is, these people have been destroying the community for years.

 

Fact is, you can't put the words "fact is" in front of anything you want.

 

Show me the data.

 

These people aren't destroying the community. These people ARE the community.

Edited by Hyginos, 07 July 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

In four years there have been many who tell me is am killing the game.

I am analytical. If I did 'five whys' on that, I conclude the are unhappy I am better than they.

And, in four years, ALL of them have been wrong. Hawken is still here to prove it.

[Nightfirebolt]

The amount of arrogance and negativity on these forums never ceases to amaze me.

 

It's no wonder that even the devs avoid them like the plague.

[Hecatoncheires]

How to get rid of smurfs (at least temporarily): reset everyone's MMR.

I actually feel like it would end up fairly well if Reloaded reset everyone's MMR right now (before the update). Yes, high MMR players would be set against low MMR players, but I feel it would be more so that high MMR players would be set more often against other high MMR players (along with low MMR players) because of the typically larger pool of skilled players over the less skilled. You would get rid of the weird bottleneck each end of the skill spectrum tries to struggle through in order to find a match and the skewing would be less persistent.

 

By doing this, you get a more genuine representation of players' skill in the time before the update and the existing player-base would be more flexible and able to handle a large influx of new players.

 

This is just hypothetical, though.

[ATX22]

In four years there have been many who tell me is am killing the game.

I am analytical. If I did 'five whys' on that, I conclude the are unhappy I am better than they.

And, in four years, ALL of them have been wrong. Hawken is still here to prove it.

Please detail what led you to that conclusion.

And yes, Hawken is still around, but you can't ignore how close it came to oblivion.

[Amidatelion]

How to get rid of smurfs (at least temporarily): reset everyone's MMR.

I actually feel like it would end up fairly well if Reloaded reset everyone's MMR right now (before the update). Yes, high MMR players would be set against low MMR players, but I feel it would be more so that high MMR players would be set more often against other high MMR players (along with low MMR players) because of the typically larger pool of skilled players over the less skilled. You would get rid of the weird bottleneck each end of the skill spectrum tries to struggle through in order to find a match and the skewing would be less persistent.

 

By doing this, you get a more genuine representation of players' skill in the time before the update and the existing player-base would be more flexible and able to handle a large influx of new players.

 

This is just hypothetical, though.

 

Alternatively, ditch MMR.

[Hecatoncheires]

Alternatively, ditch MMR.

Could work in theory as well.

I would recommend splitting servers into groups based on difficulty then. The new player can choose how skilled they are.

[Amidatelion]

Could work in theory as well.

I would recommend splitting servers into groups based on difficulty then. The new player can choose how skilled they are.

 

I'm a fan of bootcamp servers. Accounts with more than x amount of time/level/whatever are locked out of them.

[harmless_kittens]

OP here.  

Well, despite what I was accused of, I am NOT complaining in this thread about the high MMR players playing their high MMR mechs.  Yes, that's not fun for me either, when a 2500 MMR player stomps us all, but I can see how it happens.  And yeah, maybe I will leave that match.  So do many other players, some of whom are even in these forums.  So please don't act like I am the only one out there who leaves imbalanced matches.  I stopped for a while, realized I wasn't having any fun in staying, and then asked myself why I would play if I'm not having fun?  Like I said before, this is my destresser after working hard all day.  If it's just as stressful as work, which I get PAID for, why would I do this?  That, to me, is insane.  In the meantime, despite me having dozens more hours of play time than 14 year old son, Kaotic-Beaver, who is only allowed to play for one hour per day, he is now approaching 2100 MMR!  You see, he's got great reaction skills and he is good at these types of games.  I am not.  It's just that simple.

 

I'm sorry I was not more clear that my plea is for smurfs to stop smurfing so that we can encourage new players, who will hopefully be joining soon, to actually hang around.  I didn't ask for this "mantle", but for a while now I've tried to be the voice of "the little guy", the "casual dad wanting to chill out late at night after the family's gone to bed", and "Christian father who would like to see the naming and chat cleaned up a little bit", and the "guy who is terrible at FPS games but still wants to play Hawken"  I feel that players like myself are under-represented in the forums, because most of us are too timid or even too ignorant to post here.  But I also feel that there have been (past tense) many players like me.  I see them in the matches sometimes.  They're the guy sitting in the back just watching for a while. They're the guy (or gal) with 15 points despite playing for a full 10 minutes.  Most of them don't even speak/chat - they're just too scared to speak up.  When they do introduce themselves and say they are new, MOST of you, TO YOUR CREDIT, are very kind and welcoming to them.  But then there are those exceptions, shouting "Get good or go home!" (and much worse) and unfortunately just one negative experience can crush the spirits of a new player.  I also feel that some of these "casual" players will NEVER post in a forum, as they are just too intimidated to do so.  I'm not saying that fear is justified, mind you, as most of you are very kind.  But what percentage of players, and what types of players, post in the forums?  Aren't they usually FPS players who have played these types of games before and are looking for ways to improve their own skills and the game as a whole?  I doubt most casual, non-FPS players post in forums.

 

Of course, I have no evidence to back this up.  How do you prove a negative or absence, right?  I imagine that Reloaded and its predecessors have data like this, but I don't blame them for not sharing it.  Who wants to share "bad news" about their game?  But I have heard from many of you that there used to be a couple thousand players, and now we are down to a couple hundred.  There is enough blame to go around I guess, but if players are unwilling to admit that the toxic behavior of some players (the vocal minority) toward the "newbs" is a factor then I think they are kidding themselves.  I've never played other online FPS before (too graphic/violent/mature).  I've heard you guys say they are even worse, and I can believe that.  But just because we "aren't as bad as the other guy" doesn't mean there is no room for improvement.  My point in this thread is that there is no good reason, that I can see, for a 2500 MMR player to be playing their 1600 MMR smurf right now - not when there are so many other players of their skill level playing.  Why can't you just go back to playing your 2500 main with your veteran peers until after the update?  Is it because your MMR might actually drop?  (Perish the thought.)

 

Sorry to ramble, but I want to say one last thing.  All of us, myself included, find it extremely difficult to put ourselves "in the shoes" of someone totally unlike us.  This applies to online video games as well.  I fully admit that I am totally naive about what it must be like to be an elite, top 1%, "god amongst mortals" at games like this.  I will NEVER know what that feels like, and I don't really want to, frankly.  I know my lack of "ambition" bothers some of you, but my personal mindset sets my ambitions beyond the cares of this world.  (Go ahead and make fun if you must.)  But I humbly suggest that just as I can't know what its like to be so great at games like this, those elite players CANNOT know what it feels like to be bad at games like this, but STILL wanting to play them.  I can't be the only older guy/gal out there that wants to play a game where big mechs get to shoot other mechs, despite being bad at it.  Shoot, I was watching the Netflix reboot of Voltron last night (that's right, I admitted it), because I grew up watching the original and I'm just a Toys R US kid at heart.  I really want this game to succeed (we've put over $60 of our money into making that happen), and I think that getting new/fresh blood into the game, and KEEPING THEM HERE, even if they are terrible players initially, is key to making that happen.  I just hope we can all be as civil and welcoming in the game, that you guys have been of myself here in the forums.  Thanks again for all your support.  It means a lot.

[Amidatelion]

My point in this thread is that there is no good reason, that I can see, for a 2500 MMR player to be playing their 1600 MMR smurf right now - not when there are so many other players of their skill level playing.  Why can't you just go back to playing your 2500 main with your veteran peers until after the update?  Is it because your MMR might actually drop?  (Perish the thought.)

 

No it's because at any given point there are maybe three to five of us online at the same goddamn time. One gets into a match. Thirty seconds later others try to join. The match is full. Rinse and repeat, maybe with some communication, which results in "dammit, full already ;_;" or "lol not accepting players." Or, one player starts a game in a private, out-queue'd server and sends out invites that don't get read because people are in games. And then you've got enough people for... a deathmatch. If that. The only way of getting these players in the same match reliably is in community events. 

 

Also, throwing shade about people scared of losing MMR or KD or whatever has about the same effect as us throwing shade about a refusal to get gud.

 

Finally, the new Voltron is badass and anyone who gainsays me better have their pinkslip ready.

[harmless_kittens]

Amid, for reasons that should be obvious to you by now, I stopped reading after the first line or so.  It's also why my son is not allowed to read or post in these forums.  Sorry :(

Edited by harmless_kittens, 07 July 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[Hecatoncheires]

 

Sorry to ramble, but I want to say one last thing.  All of us, myself included, find it extremely difficult to put ourselves "in the shoes" of someone totally unlike us.  This applies to online video games as well.  I fully admit that I am totally naive about what it must be like to be an elite, top 1%, "god amongst mortals" at games like this.  I will NEVER know what that feels like, and I don't really want to, frankly.  I know my lack of "ambition" bothers some of you, but my personal mindset sets my ambitions beyond the cares of this world.  (Go ahead and make fun if you must.)  But I humbly suggest that just as I can't know what its like to be so great at games like this, those elite players CANNOT know what it feels like to be bad at games like this, but STILL wanting to play them.  I can't be the only older guy/gal out there that wants to play a game where big mechs get to shoot other mechs, despite being bad at it.  Shoot, I was watching the Netflix reboot of Voltron last night (that's right, I admitted it), because I grew up watching the original and I'm just a Toys R US kid at heart.  I really want this game to succeed (we've put over $60 of our money into making that happen), and I think that getting new/fresh blood into the game, and KEEPING THEM HERE, even if they are terrible players initially, is key to making that happen.  I just hope we can all be as civil and welcoming in the game, that you guys have been of myself here in the forums.  Thanks again for all your support.  It means a lot.

I'll be honest and say that I only read your last paragraph, but I completely agree with you in what you said there. I think the community has become far too callous to other's, "outsider"'s, perspectives that we ignore important opinions that do factor into the overall argument; whether they are wrong or right really doesn't matter, the opinion exists even if it's redundant. We dignify ourselves as mechanical minds, and obliviously attack genuine thoughts with pseudo-logical bickering. We need to remove ourselves from the metal and remember we are flesh. 

Edited by Hecatoncheires, 07 July 2016 - 12:37 PM.

[Amidatelion]

[DeeRax]

I'll be honest and say that I only read your last paragraph, but I completely agree with you in what you said there. I think the community has become far too callous to other's, "outsider"'s, perspectives that we ignore important opinions that do factor into the overall argument; whether they are wrong or right really doesn't matter, the opinion exists even if it's redundant. We dignify ourselves as mechanical minds, and obliviously attack genuine thoughts with pseudo-logical bickering. We need to remove ourselves from the metal and remember we are flesh. 

Uh, no. Opinions don't automatically have any inherent value just by virtue of being opinions that exist, and opinions that are obviously non-factual & wrong shouldn't factor into an argument whatsoever.

Reminds me of the whole "blablablah I can be as offensive as I want lol 1st amendment" or "Global warming is just a theory" or "You're not being PC enough, IMO, so you don't get a say" arguments, etc. Hate that fuzzy bunny.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 07 July 2016 - 12:48 PM.

[Hecatoncheires]

Uh, no. Opinions don't automatically have any inherent value just by virtue of being opinions that exist, and opinions that are obviously non-factual & wrong shouldn't factor into an argument whatsoever.

Reminds me of the whole "blablablah I can be as offensive as I want lol 1st amendment" or "Global warming is just a theory" or "You're not being PC enough, IMO, so you don't get a say" arguments, etc. Hate that fuzzy bunny.

Not what I'm saying. I'm saying the opinions exist, so we shouldn't ignore that they are there just because we've reached a limited consensus that they don't matter.

 

Edit: Following your analogy, "Global Warming is just a theory" (which it is by definition, ironically). I'm saying we have to acknowledge that there are people thinking climate change is not an issue and consider the existence of this opinion as well as methods to lessen it. We're not considerate enough of the mindset these people are following and we just dismiss them as "wrong".  

Edited by Hecatoncheires, 07 July 2016 - 01:02 PM.

[Stormwalker42]

yeah never mind all those people I was playing against in the videos linked, or those events listed

 

 

 

what evidence

 

where is this evidence

 

i would like to see this evidence

 

You ignore it, so whats the point.   This thread, among many others in these forums as well as steam forums.  Many people have come to the forums and complained about the every same thing.   You don't want to admit it.

You don't want to allow for experience with this very situation.  So what's the point of arguing it.   You admitted yourself, you don't play the public servers, so you can't see it, can you?

 

The issue exists, no matter how much you want it not to.