119 replies to this topic

[Superkamikazee]

Right, I said you're entitled to your opinion.  However, I also demonstrated that you supported your opinion through confirmation bias.
 
 
[14:27] <Crafty> kamikaze
[14:27] <Crafty> just no
[14:28] <Crafty> thats one turn it would have done well to avoid
[14:29] <Crafty> hes equating originality with success
[14:29] <Crafty> thats super flawed
[14:29] <Crafty> in my life Ive sen originality in art and music die on hills all over to the delight of generic successes
[14:30] <Crafty> thats the way of mass consumption

[14:31] <Crafty> orginilaity needs patrons who protect it from the genericizing effect of wider public appetites
[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

Wait, so is the point that Hawken is just some misunderstood art piece few people understand and not some failed attempt at making a lucrative E-sport arena FPS?

Dismissing the "publics" reception to Hawken over the years as simply, "they don't get it" is a fools errand. I'm fine calling a spade a spade, but you guys apparently can't, or simply won't.

[DeeRax]

-snip-

 

Do not, do not, DO NOT try to defend G2s being straight upgrades to G1s. Just don't. DO NOT.

[DieselCat]

i always called "game critics" as "nubs", because they play in game 5 min and write some bullsh!t in reviews. but this is first time when they actually right, and this is the honest rewiev. it is sad.

 

Some of his points were correct in relation to the current console version, but is way off base of his assessment of PC Hawken. He doesn't seen to have his facts straight about the history that has put Hawken in the position it's in today.  

[Superkamikazee]

Some of his points were correct in relation to the current console version, but is way off base of his assessment of PC Hawken. He doesn't seen to have his facts straight about the history that has put Hawken in the position it's in today.

Not to sound snide, but does anyone really expect someone outside the forums to know exactly wtf happened to Hawken over the past 4-5 yrs? It's been a fuzzy bunny show.

[DemitronPrime]

-SNIP-

 

THOUGH!!! I would like to add...

By the end of the review I could tasty the SALTY EX PC Player taste in my mouth...

 

 

reposted for relevance...

[Flifang]

Do not, do not, DO NOT try to defend G2s being straight upgrades to G1s. Just don't. DO NOT.

I'm not trying, evidently I'm succeeding because you're the only one to challenge me directly. 

 

I'm all for discussion on this if people start throwing their perfect world scenarios out the window. This is a game that utilizes all 3 axis's very well, is fast paced, and has an extreme amount of technique and skill involved compared to many games that are out there right now.

 

Give me a REAL scenario with details in which you think a G2 mech is guaranteed to win against its normal counterpart every time and I will counter it. Every time. Try me ass holes.

[DeeRax]

The G2s have better stats, period. PERRRIIIOOOOODDDD. And you have to unlock them with (what appears to be) a horrific grind, or real money.

You have no argument here. You literally have no argument.
Hypothetical scenarios of "Yeah but piloting and stuff" is completely besides the point and does not an argument make. I don't CAAAAAREEEE if 30-100 extra health won't save you from a direct TOW to the face. You're not wrong, but it's not the point, AT ALL.

You shouldn't be grinding or paying money for a version of the exact same mech you already have, that has 30-100 extra health and a bunch of other improvements, in the first fuzzy bunnyng place. IT IS P2W. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 25 July 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[DieselCat]

Not to sound snide, but does anyone really expect someone outside the forums to know exactly wtf happened to Hawken over the past 4-5 yrs? It's been a fuzzy bunny show.

 

And anyone that attempts to write a review about it should know all the facts about what got Hawken to where it is today. 

[Superkamikazee]

And anyone that attempts to write a review about it should know all the facts about what got Hawken to where it is today.

Or, or someone could just play the game, then write and share their experience with how the game is currently, because you know, that's the version we have to play today.

[ATX22]

And anyone that attempts to write a review about it should know all the facts about what got Hawken to where it is today. 

 

You don't want people writing reviews from the point of view of a die-hard long-time Hawken regular with "mad skillz" and an already cemented set of expectations for this game.  I read these reviews as something written by someone who isn't necessarily an expert at this game, but rather someone who's going to give you an idea of what the first impression will be that Hawken is going to give to new players.  It's people who haven't played this game that are going to benefit most from these reviews anyway, most of us here already know what Hawken is about.

 

The morbid history behind this game; frankly doesn't matter.  Especially if Hawken turns out to be a pile of **** or a work of art.

Edited by ATX22, 26 July 2016 - 03:54 AM.

[CraftyDus]

On the brighter side, the geniuses at destructoid gave Hawken a better score than Pokemon:Go

[Superkamikazee]

On the brighter side, the geniuses at destructoid gave Hawken a better score than Pokemon:Go

 

To be fair the Giantbomb (podcast Jeff Gerstmann) guys aren't exactly raving about PokemonGo as a game either. But that's neither here nor there. 

[CraftyDus]

The G2s have better stats, period. PERRRIIIOOOOODDDD. And you have to unlock them with (what appears to be) a horrific grind, or real money.

You shouldn't be grinding or paying money for a version of the exact same mech you already have, that has 30-100 extra health and a bunch of other improvements, in the first fuzzy bunnyng place. IT IS P2W. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.
 

 

It is my consideration that the g2 tier of mechs are not a remarkable change.

I see that much larger differences between baseline mechs existed already.

For example zerker--->fthermometer--->brawler, infil---->vanguard, reaper---->ss.

I should also mention that Hawken also had unlock routes previously where you had to level such and such a mech in order to buy whatever with hc.

 

If the introduction of the g2 market is the example that all of a sudden hawken is p2w, then it could have been made at any time in the past 3 years.

Instead, the community jumped on every p2w steam thread after steam release explaining how it is pay to not grind.

Either It is still pay to not grind in the present console build.

Or it was p2w all along.

 

Acting like the new market is so different is disingenuous.

As an ingenue to f2p myself (Hawken is my 1st foray) the differences are window dressing.

 

If I would argue for a marketing change it would be to discard f2p entirely.

Sell hawken for $15 or so retail, include every mech , item, and internal.

Charge jacked prices for tradeable skins, taunts, and custom parts.

Release the complete server suite.

 

Barring that, start grinding like the good little grinders you are, or get out your wallets and impulse buy your way to enlightenment.

Like we always have in Hawken.

[CraftyDus]

To be fair the Giantbomb (podcast Jeff Gerstmann) guys aren't exactly raving about PokemonGo as a game either. But that's neither here nor there. 

 

to be fair pokemon go is obviously rad af

Just

Like

Hawken

[coldform]

To be fair the Giantbomb (podcast Jeff Gerstmann) guys aren't exactly raving about PokemonGo as a game either. But that's neither here nor there.

And yet, Pok�mon go is a huge hit, despite scathing reviews. I think that's the point crafty is trying to make.

[Superkamikazee]

If you are looking for the next groundbreaking first-person shooter on PlayStation 4, Hawken is probably not going to live up to your expectations. The game does deliver an initial burst of exhilaration, but this is unfortunately unsustainable beyond a few outings. When the dust settles, what remains is a run-of-the-mill class based shooter, set in a series of drab environments. This is a genuine case of getting what you pay for.

http://www.playstati...-down/#/slide/1


There are more reviews on Metacritic (not many obviously), but the scores all appear to be pretty similar atm.

[CraftyDus]

http://www.playstati...-down/#/slide/1


There are more reviews on Metacritic (not many obviously), but the scores all appear to be pretty similar atm.

 

"At least in my time with the game, there were no instances of paywalls or premium content that broke the game�s balance"

 

thank you Blake Grundman

[coldform]

Aaaaaaaaand he's not hearing it.

Kthxbai.

[Superkamikazee]

And yet, Pok�mon go is a huge hit, despite scathing reviews. I think that's the point crafty is trying to make.

The only point to be made is really, that there is no point. PokemonGo is riding off the coat tails of 20 years of nostalgia, was released on the most mainstream device in existence with a gameplay loop that encourages exploring and social interaction and what could be the lowest barrier of entry a "game" could have. If there's ever been someone reaching for straws, it's Crafty comparing PokemonGo to Hawken lol. 

[Superkamikazee]

to be fair pokemon go is obviously rad af

 

 

I get it for sure, and a ton of people agree, so there must be something there. Wish the same could be said for Hawken. I'm hoping Reloaded can make the changes they need to make, but I'm not hopeful. It appears that Reloaded's development is the equivalent to me changing a few values in an .ini file. 

[CraftyDus]

The only point to be made is really, that there is no point. PokemonGo is riding off the coat tails of 20 years of nostalgia, was released on the most mainstream device in existence with a gameplay loop that encourages exploring and social interaction and what could be the lowest barrier of entry a "game" could have. If there's ever been someone reaching for straws, it's Crafty comparing PokemonGo to Hawken lol. 

 

Let me explain it to you as simply as I can. Because you are clearly having trouble keeping up.

 

Destructoid reviewer gives Hawken a 4.5/10

Destructoid reviewer gives Pokemon:Go a 3.5/10

 

I do not care what destructoid reviewers say about either game.

 

Do you understand me now?

[Superkamikazee]

Let me explain it to you as simply as I can. Because you are clearly having trouble keeping up.

 

Destructoid reviewer gives Hawken a 4.5/10

Destructoid reviewer gives Pokemon:Go a 3.5/10

 

I do not care what destructoid reviewers say about either game.

 

Do you understand me now?

 

 

No trouble keeping up. 

 

Did you actually read the pokemonGo review? lol

[CraftyDus]

No trouble keeping up. 

 

Did you actually read the pokemonGo review? lol

 

ya, I did

 

now have someone read it and explain it to you

[Superkamikazee]

ya, I did

 

 

now have someone read it and explain it to you

 

Well then if you really did, maybe it's you who needs help because apparently you don't understand why it received the score that it did, and why its been as successful as has been with the masses. lol 

Edited by Superkamikazee, 26 July 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Well then if you really did, maybe it's you who needs help because apparently you don't understand why it received the score that it did, and why its been as successful as has been with the masses. lol 

 

Moving on from the destructoid review scores where they put hawken higher than pokemon go, because you are not likely to understand why I linked it for you anytime in the very near future.

 

Here's another destructoid article on why game reviews suck.

Please have an adult in your home explain the article and why I might have made this link available to you.

 

https://www.destruct...one-30369.phtml

[Superkamikazee]

Moving on from the destructoid review scores where they put hawken higher than pokemon go, because you are not likely to understand why I linked it for you anytime in the very near future.

Here's another destructoid article on why game reviews suck.
Please have an adult in your home explain the article and why I might have made this link available to you.

https://www.destruct...one-30369.phtml

You're preaching to the choir. Everyone worth a damn knows it's not just the number in the review, but the number is all the masses see. The reviews I've been reading, key word there, have plenty of valid issues with the game. Now if those issues and opinions meet up exactly with the review score is up, well that's up to the reader I suppose.

You're trying your best to prove Hawken is more than what these reviews are suggesting, and I think that's something that can happen when you're too invested. You can get confused and lost in protecting that thing, when in reality it's broken, and not well received by reviewers and for YEARS now, the general public. I don't know what else to tell you, if Hawken was more than the sum of its parts, it would have been more successful, and well recieved.

[CraftyDus]

You're trying your best to prove Hawken is more than what these reviews are suggesting

 

I am not.

I am saying that I don't care what they say.

I have said it many different ways.

Then I said that you are having great difficulty understanding that.

I am repeating myself in order to make myself plainly understood for you.

I don't think it's working.

[coldform]

I don't know what else to tell you, if Hawken was more than the sum of its parts, it would have been more successful, and well recieved.

But that's just it. Take a look at the amount of time and effort invested in this game by the core community. Those that see hawken as more than the sum of its parts have made deep personal investments into this game. What i also find odd is the amount of people who didn't play shooters before, find themselves making this sort of dedication to a shooter, others, like myself, avoided shooters, but found themselves developing their skillset with an uncanny dedication.

It's a numbers game. Plain and simple. To hell with the reviews, get this game in front of as many eyeballs as possible, and see what happens from there.

This game is amazing. We know that. And it's not some 5 minute review with zero understanding of the subtleties of hawken's gameplay that defined our foray into this.

And you know full well that hawken is anything but generic.

[Hyginos]

To hell with the reviews, get this game in front of as many eyeballs as possible, and see what happens from there.

 

See, I agree that exposure will make or break this game, but console Hawken already had its shot with the exposure from that launch and the corresponding E3 slot.

 

The first impression got blown, and now Hawken has to overcome a that on console and PC. 

[Superkamikazee]

But that's just it. Take a look at the amount of time and effort invested in this game by the core community. Those that see hawken as more than the sum of its parts have made deep personal investments into this game. What i also find odd is the amount of people who didn't play shooters before, find themselves making this sort of dedication to a shooter, others, like myself, avoided shooters, but found themselves developing their skillset with an uncanny dedication.

It's a numbers game. Plain and simple. To hell with the reviews, get this game in front of as many eyeballs as possible, and see what happens from there.

This game is amazing. We know that. And it's not some 5 minute review with zero understanding of the subtleties of hawken's gameplay that defined our foray into this.

And you know full well that hawken is anything but generic.

A small few think Hawken is great, and that's the problem. The game hasn't been a commercial success, nor does it appear it will be a critical one. Plenty of games over come one of those two things, but Hawken has failed on both fronts, what that tells me at least, that there is something inherently wrong with the game. Something is not clicking or keeping the attention of audiences and critics alike.

What it all comes down to is, do you want your Hawken, or do you want Hawken to be successful? At this point I don't think we can have it both ways.

[CraftyDus]

I have been playing Hawken for three years straight.

Looks like I have been having it my way all along.

[Superkamikazee]

I have been playing Hawken for three years straight.
Looks like I have been having it my way all along.

Which is fine, but to ignore that the game has a lot of problems or how some have suggested that other people "just don't get it" is to be in a serious state of denial.

[CraftyDus]

Which is fine, but to ignore that the game has a lot of problems or how some have suggested that other people "just don't get it" is to be in a serious state of denial.

 

To call uninterrupted enjoyment of a living game with a comp scene over several years a failure,

is to be in a serious state of

NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT PEOPLE POST IN THIS THREAD.

You are not keeping up.

I give your grasp of the topic 3.5/10

Edited by CraftyDus, 26 July 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[Superkamikazee]

To call uninterrupted enjoyment of a living game with a comp scene over several years a failure,
is to be in a serious state of
NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT PEOPLE POST IN THIS THREAD.
You are not keeping up.
I give your grasp of the topic 3.5/10

Um, it's like 200 people, but ok, we can call it a success if it helps you sleep at night.

I'm fine to agree to disagree, because you're in too deep to reason with.

[CraftyDus]

All games die. It doesn't equate with failure.

Just look at all the games that were going to kill hawken in the past.

Nosgoth

Strike Vector

Toxxic

Titanfall

and on and on and on....

All games die. All things in the universe die and are reborn.

The universe is indifferent to your desires.

Your desire to assign reasons for a natural ebbing of popular interest in a thing.

 

And pretending only 200 people are playing Hawken 4 years after launch is to ignore the xbox and ps4 populations.

 

You have chosen to misinterpret my plain language numerous times.

I believe its unintentional, because you seem like you misunderstand much of what is said to you.

 

But the bottomline is that I don't care what reviews say about a game, movie, book, or whatever.

 

I think some people are 1 and 4 in a reaper and just won't get it.

 

People like Nic Rowen.

[TheButtSatisfier]

 I'm fine calling a spade a spade, but you guys apparently can't, or simply won't.

 

I'm fine to agree to disagree, because you're in too deep to reason with.

 

Is this a riddle? Are we supposed to guess the next submission?

 

"I'm fine to act like the Truth speaks to me directly, and that it has also conscripted me to tell you all how ignorant and self-absorbed you all are."

 

That's my guess, and I rate it 3.5/10.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 26 July 2016 - 08:52 AM.

[Nept]

Wait, so is the point that Hawken is just some misunderstood art piece few people understand and not some failed attempt at making a lucrative E-sport arena FPS?

 

No, the point is that being unique/non-generic doesn't guarantee popular success.  Which is what you claimed here:

 

You can take objection with whatever you please, but the fact remains, Hawken is generic no matter what your opinion is, or how long of a list you post. If it wasn't, it would have been even a moderate success, as opposed to it being the monumental failing that it was and is today.

Edited by Nept, 26 July 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[DM30]

Give me a REAL scenario with details in which you think a G2 mech is guaranteed to win against its normal counterpart every time and I will counter it. Every time. Try me ass holes.

Once upgraded, a G1 Brawler has the top orblord internals available on PC right now and a single orb. On top of its better base stats, a G2 Brawler gets orblord internals that are I believe around 15% stronger than the G1's (I'll check the number when I get home), and two orbs. In a duel between similarly skilled players, I would be shocked if the G2 didn't win a decisive majority of the time.

[DeeRax]

If I would argue for a marketing change it would be to discard f2p entirely.

Sell hawken for $15 or so retail, include every mech , item, and internal.

Charge jacked prices for tradeable skins, taunts, and custom parts.

Release the complete server suite.

I would love this, actually, and I think Howken would be better served by it.

[Flifang]

Once upgraded, a G1 Brawler has the top orblord internals available on PC right now and a single orb. On top of its better base stats, a G2 Brawler gets orblord internals that are I believe around 15% stronger than the G1's (I'll check the number when I get home), and two orbs. In a duel between similarly skilled players, I would be shocked if the G2 didn't win a decisive majority of the time.

Finally! Somebody who kind of wants to theory craft.

 

Give me a pair of mechs, a gamemode, a map, and staging of the mechs. That's a start.

Edited by Flifang, 26 July 2016 - 11:08 AM.