119 replies to this topic

[Flifang]

The G2s have better stats, period. PERRRIIIOOOOODDDD. And you have to unlock them with (what appears to be) a horrific grind, or real money.

You have no argument here. You literally have no argument.
Hypothetical scenarios of "Yeah but piloting and stuff" is completely besides the point and does not an argument make. I don't CAAAAAREEEE if 30-100 extra health won't save you from a direct TOW to the face. You're not wrong, but it's not the point, AT ALL.

You shouldn't be grinding or paying money for a version of the exact same mech you already have, that has 30-100 extra health and a bunch of other improvements, in the first fuzzy bunnyng place. IT IS P2W. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

K, well I don't know how many changes or additions to the game you have been around for but all of this attitude from everyone is not new. It's literally just an echo that took since right when the incinerator was released to come back. Literally the only thing people care to bring up a year or more later is how little or how much the devs interact(ed) with us. Almost everything about mechs and balance either gets worked out in a patch and forgotten, or when people figure out how to use something the way it was intended. Remember when the pred was introduced? Remember when the bby bear was the weapon of choice right after the incinerator was released because people were still floundering with the technique required to use the papa? If you don't then my point has already been proven, assuming you've been here for both of these events. If not I don't know why I'm even responding to you anymore.

 

Edit: excuse the provocative use of the word literally

 

Edit2: On hawken "make sure that they fear me in lobbies" list. Check.

Edited by Flifang, 26 July 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[crockrocket]

I've been trying to explain how I feel about Hawken for years, and all this time Crafty put it best.

 

I might even steal that Crafty quote for my sig

[DeeRax]

If not I don't know why I'm even responding to you anymore.

 
Must be my charming personality and lovable face(beard).

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 26 July 2016 - 12:04 PM.

[Flifang]

Alright. Who else want's their argument neutered? 

[TheButtSatisfier]

Just as a quick education, you're using the word "literally" incorrectly. Literal means "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory." For example:

 

It's literally just an echo that took since right when the incinerator was released to come back.

 

The sentiments you are referring to when the Incin was released were not "just" a series of air pressure waves reflecting off an object for us to hear again.

 

Literally the only thing people care to bring up a year or more later is how little or how much the devs interact(ed) with us.

 

Saying that the only thing that anyone was bringing up a year+ later regarding those changes is how little the devs interacted with the community is categorically false. There were other unique comments on the matter. Don't oversimplify the issue to reinforce your narrative.

 

 

Remember when the pred was introduced? Remember when the bby bear was the weapon of choice right after the incinerator was released because people were still floundering with the technique required to use the papa? If you don't then my point has already been proven, assuming you've been here for both of these events. If not I don't know why I'm even responding to you anymore.

 

Being witness to a few developer changes that had initially misguided reactions doesn't make you an expert on the matter of critiquing development changes, and not being witness to those changes doesn't mean that someone can't provide constructive criticism.

 

If that's the way you're going to frame your arguments then you'd probably be doing DeeMRax a favor by not respond anymore.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 26 July 2016 - 12:38 PM.

[DeeRax]

Alright. Who else want's their argument neutered? 

I still do, I guess. I don't believe you actually addressed G2s being straight upgrade versions of the exact same G1s you get, and why that's problematicscummy (Even if the upgrades are perceived to not be "that big a deal" by some). I don't believe you can, actually. But it was a scummy, lazy move on the dev's part (And it doesn't take a "legit" alpha player who has been around forevs to see that). I'm not sure why you're trying to vehemently defend it, it's weird to me, is all.

EDIT: And I'll repeat, odd hypothetical situations of "Choose a time, place, and mecha, SUCKA!!" don't actually have anything to do with this at all.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 26 July 2016 - 12:22 PM.

[DeeRax]

 DeeMax

BTW, just throwing it out there, everyone in pubs thinks I'm a DerMax smurf
(I'm like, "lol nah; I don't know how I have you fooled by my scrubby gameplays.")

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 26 July 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[Flifang]

Thank you, TheButtSatisfier for correcting me on the use of the word literally. I try not to carelessly throw words around and this just tells me that I'm reaching again with my arguments. I have a big ego and I most genuinely appreciate when people are kind enough to bring me down a few pegs (because it's my worst character trait in my opinion and I despise it).

 

Yes, you are correct in that just because I was here for many examples of overreaction by the community on content updates, it does not make me an expert on these events now.

 

As for you, DeeRax; I hope you don't take any of this personally. Arguing is a passion of mine and I have a tendency to take the middle-ground on any issue I'm not really affected by opinion wise and defend either side when a large group moves in to break down the other. I don't know where this comes from. It's either some sort of sense of justice mixed with the indifference I often have with things, or it's just me wanting to pick a fight. At this point in my life I really don't know. I would like to think that I'm justly defending things, but I might just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm grateful you, along with TBS took the time to respond to me in a way that just brought me to my senses without me becoming baited.

 

It's pretty obvious to some observant folk that my opinion on a subject here will change given enough info. I'm sure all things considered many of you think I'm still just kissing up to everyone, and that's okay. Maybe I am. I certainly don't want to believe that I am, but I also know that I value this community a lot and if I ruin my still pretty limited reputation here I won't be able to fully enjoy this game's community as I always have.

 

Regardless of whether or not all this fuss is fixed with a patch or just blown over as more issues or hype for new content drowns it out, all I'm managing to do is make a fool of myself here. No point arguing about something that I can't prove will happen for many months, when a good 80% of the people here disagree with me.

 

I'll just refrain from posting on anything that will get me riled up again until I think I can handle it. Have a nice day, and maybe I'll see you all on the battlefield. 

[DeeRax]

As for you, DeeRax; I hope you don't take any of this personally.

Hey man, not at all. And I totally get where you're coming from with wanting to defend the middle ground, it's a good place to stand most of the time. Likewise, sorry if my posts often come off as pretty brusque; it's mostly internet smarm mixed with, well, brusqueness. But my bark is worse than my bite, I'm just a laid-back southern boy, I promise.
 

 

Have a nice day, and maybe I'll see you all on the battlefield. 

Where I'm sure I'll get rekt, 9 times out of 10.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 26 July 2016 - 12:50 PM.

[DerMax]

Thank you, TheButtSatisfier for correcting me on the use of the word literally. I try not to carelessly throw words around and this just tells me that I'm reaching again with my arguments. I have a big ego and I most genuinely appreciate when people are kind enough to bring me down a few pegs (because it's my worst character trait in my opinion and I despise it).

 

Yes, you are correct in that just because I was here for many examples of overreaction by the community on content updates, it does not make me an expert on these events now.

 

As for you, DeeRax; I hope you don't take any of this personally. Arguing is a passion of mine and I have a tendency to take the middle-ground on any issue I'm not really affected by opinion wise and defend either side when a large group moves in to break down the other. I don't know where this comes from. It's either some sort of sense of justice mixed with the indifference I often have with things, or it's just me wanting to pick a fight. At this point in my life I really don't know. I would like to think that I'm justly defending things, but I might just be arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm grateful you, along with TBS took the time to respond to me in a way that just brought me to my senses without me becoming baited.

 

It's pretty obvious to some observant folk that my opinion on a subject here will change given enough info. I'm sure all things considered many of you think I'm still just kissing up to everyone, and that's okay. Maybe I am. I certainly don't want to believe that I am, but I also know that I value this community a lot and if I ruin my still pretty limited reputation here I won't be able to fully enjoy this game's community as I always have.

 

Regardless of whether or not all this fuss is fixed with a patch or just blown over as more issues or hype for new content drowns it out, all I'm managing to do is make a fool of myself here. No point arguing about something that I can't prove will happen for many months, when a good 80% of the people here disagree with me.

 

I'll just refrain from posting on anything that will get me riled up again until I think I can handle it. Have a nice day, and maybe I'll see you all on the battlefield. 

What a brilliant post.

[Flifang]

Where I come from, we call this being where I come from.  

FTFY

[DM30]

Finally! Somebody who kind of wants to theory craft.

 

Give me a pair of mechs, a gamemode, a map, and staging of the mechs. That's a start.

 

I'm not really sure how that's relevant to a discussion on G1 vs G2 variants, and I'm not saying that just to bail out of a debate. I'm legitimately confused. Regardless of gamemode or situation, a G1 and a G2 version of the same mech are going to fill the same role and play the same way. The only difference is that the G2 is going to do it better because of the combination of its better stats (less important IMO) and its better gear (the real problem).

[ARCH3TYP3]

Hey man, not at all. And I totally get where you're coming from with wanting to defend the middle ground, it's a good place to stand most of the time. Likewise, sorry if my posts often come off as pretty brusque; it's mostly internet smarm mixed with, well, brusqueness. But my bark is worse than my bite, I'm just a laid-back southern boy, I promise.
 

 

Where I'm sure I'll get rekt, 9 times out of 10.

By the way...I never see you in-game, DeeRax, but you strike me as someone I would like to play with.

In fact, now that I think of it, there are quite a few forum members who I never really see. It's surprising to me, especially now that our forum names are supposedly identical to our in-game names....

 

I do see DallasCreeper, Talon, Demitron, and others.. But so many of these forum names are names that I only see here.

*Shrug*.

[Shade__]

By the way...I never see you in-game, DeeRax, but you strike me as someone I would like to play with.

In fact, now that I think of it, there are quite a few forum members who I never really see. It's surprising to me, especially now that our forum names are supposedly identical to our in-game names....

 

I do see DallasCreeper, Talon, Demitron, and others.. But so many of these forum names are names that I only see here.

*Shrug*.

welp quite a few of us hardly play, i'm waiting for everything to roll over and calm down then yall will see me in pubs more.

[CounterlogicMan]

I'm not really sure how that's relevant to a discussion on G1 vs G2 variants, and I'm not saying that just to bail out of a debate. I'm legitimately confused. Regardless of gamemode or situation, a G1 and a G2 version of the same mech are going to fill the same role and play the same way. The only difference is that the G2 is going to do it better because of the combination of its better stats (less important IMO) and its better gear (the real problem).

 

See, DM gets it. Everyone is really missing the part that really matters and completely overreacting to other parts of the situation at hand.

 

The only thing that makes the G2s definitely better overall are their extra use of certain mk2 items and the much stronger advanced internals. The minor differences in stats between G1 and G2 is a complete non issue. The real issue is the much better item and internal slots. 

 

A g2 Brawler repair kit, extractor, repair orb mk2, and shield mk2 (really think they should have given it blockade) is better than the g1 brawler with the same internals/items marginally on paper (roughly 5-8% in 3-4 stat areas for most g2s).

 

Brawler                      G1                    G2                  %     

Armor                        850                  900                  5.8%  (50 hp is the largest hp difference I have seen of any g2 versus its g1 counterpart.)

Fuel Tank                  120 L               126 L                ~5%

Boost Speed              24.32 m/s        24.32 m/s

Fuel Regen                8.51 L/S          8.51 L/s

Ground Speed           14.5 m/s          15 m/s             ~3.4%

Air Speed                   25 lol/s            25 lol/s

Radar                         97.5 m            97.5 m

Overheating                6 s                  6 s

Dodging                     1.8 s                 1.7 s               5.8%

 

In practice, the difference is negligible. With the brawler in particular, I will admit the hp bonus of the g2 brawler is noticeable sometimes. With other G2s that have more hp I have not found the difference to be noticeable at all. Now that being said, when you have a g2 brawler that has adv repair kit, adv extractor, repair orb mk3, shield mk3 vs a g1 brawler that can only have repair kit, extractor, mk2 items. The difference can be pretty big depending on the situation. The situation being whether or not the g2 brawlers internals can be activated. That is the problem I personally have with g2 mechs in the current console iteration.

 

         G1                                                     G2                 

Extractor = 30% faster                    Adv. Extractor = 45% faster (possibly more haven't unlocked yet but this would match the trend from basic to regular)

Repair Kit = 20% more                   Adv. Repair Kit = 30% more

 

1x mk2 shield (?roughly 2 tows of hp?)     2x mk2 shield

1x mk2 repair orb (170 hp)             2x mk2 repair orb (170 hp each)

 

The prices of g2 mechs is not an issue.   

 

G1 CRT = Free (3rd best mech in the game imo)

G2 CRT = 5k HC (tied for best mech in the game imo)

G1 Zerk = 5k HC

G2 Zerk = 9.8k HC

G1 Infil = 7k HC (tied for best mech in the game imo)

G2 Infil = 15k HC (2nd best mech in the game imo)

G1 Assault = 5k HC (actually a beast, don't believe the naysayers)

G2 Assault = 9.8k HC

G1 Grenadier = 9.8k HC (plz buff)

G2 Grenadier = 25k HC

G1 Brawler = 7k HC 

G2 Brawler = 15k HC (so cheap for such power)

Nief = free

 

My total play time is 27:14:08 with 74,346 HC earned. That is enough to get a few G2 mechs and fully upgrade them. Now there is the whole part where you need to get the mech of choice to mech rank 6 before you can purchase a g2 mech. That is the truly rough part. That being said I have played a lot of G1 mechs and haven't really focused on leveling one mech in particular. Yet still have the G1 infil almost rank 6 (1.4mil exp away after 8 hrs in the mech). One thing I think they could do to alleviate this is either slightly increase the exp gain, do bonus exp weekends, or allow for the purchase of exp and hc boosters. Yep that's right you currently cannot get them on the console. I thought this was a f2p model game, aren't purchasable boosters a standard thing amiright?

 

I think I have painted a clearer picture for some of you. There are some really good mechs with G2 variants that are very cheap compared to other G2 variants and even some G1 mechs. 

 

Let me preface this last bit with a disclaimer: I think Hawken has some of the finest core gameplay of any shooter ever made.

 

From my perspective arguing about the decisions made in terms of G1 vs G2 progression is pointless compared to the decisions (or lack of) made in terms of aspects of the game that really effect player retention. After a few days of playing I was seeing people with all sorts of mechs from every part of the tree. I don't think that the mech web itself is an issue. I do think that the mechs on the web could use a lot more showcasing in terms of what they do, instead of a dinky little tooltip that pops up when you press square. Only to find that it still doesn't tell you fuzzy bunny about the mech in terms that a new player would understand. Another thing, the tutorial is still the same uninformative mess when compared to what is expected of players to do for the team in the game. The UI in game is still lacking when it comes to directing the player to the action, alerting them of teammates in need, conveying information about the status of teammates, and not nearly in the player's face enough about the objectives of MA and siege (the source of a lot of frustration for new players and old players). Lack of information about what things in the game do (mechs, weapons, internals, certain stats) is a real buzzkill for new players. Large confusing maps is another big turn off (really need to guide new players through these areas to the action). Not having bots to fill in empty spots on servers.

 

On the whole filling in empty spots with bots....SERIOUSLY F'ING DO THIS ALREADY, SHOULD BE PRIORITY 1, MAKING SURE GAMES ARE 6v6 NOT 5v4 3v2 6v5 1v2 etc. BIGGEST COMPLAINT ABOUT HAWKEN I HAVE HEARD EVER SINCE I STARTED PLAYING. BIGGEST REASON WHY I HEAR PEOPLE QUIT. IT IS ALREADY DONE IN BOT TDM PORT THAT fuzzy bunny OVER TO ALL PVP GAME MODES. Sorry, really passionate about that one.

 

Anyways there is my opinion on the discussion thus far.

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 27 July 2016 - 01:00 AM.

[DeeRax]

By the way...I never see you in-game, DeeRax, but you strike me as someone I would like to play with.

I haven't played much recently until the last couple days. That said, when I do play it's usually at weird times, since my ISP and RLD's servers seem to loathe each other. Out of folks on the forums, I tend to end up in matches with Luna and TJ quite often, IME.

If you do spot me in game, I'll likely be flailing around in an EOC Raider, stomping in a Heat Gren, or maybe chillin' in an AR CRT.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 27 July 2016 - 12:54 AM.

[DeeRax]

-snip-

As much as it seems its the improved stats I'm railing against when it comes to the G2s, it really is the improved items and internals I'm mostly pissed about. Thank-you for the excellent info/clarification though.

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 27 July 2016 - 12:56 AM.

[Sp3ctrr]

Seeing everything that's happened to our beloved HAWKEN over the past few months...

 

I'm left scratching my head, repeating to myself; "...what a mess"

[Nept]

See, DM gets it. Everyone is really missing the part that really matters and completely overreacting to other parts of the situation at hand.

 

The only thing that makes the G2s definitely better overall are their extra use of certain mk2 items and the much stronger advanced internals. The minor differences in stats between G1 and G2 is a complete non issue. The real issue is the much better item and internal slots.

 

While we've some stark ANY VERTICAL PROGRESSION IS TERRIBLE posters, my main concern isn't the slight power differential between G1 and G2 mechs.  It's the pay2win perception surrounding Hawken - a perception which Adhesive didn't address, and which Reloaded has worsened.  F2P shooters often address pay2win concerns by adding variety through sidegrades while emphasizing opponent parity.  With these direct upgrades, though, console Hawken provides paying customers direct and obvious advantages.  Are they significant advantages?  Not all of them, as you've noted.  But I'm concerned that they're enough to turn frustrated players from the game.  And they're certainly sufficient fodder for pay2win reviews.

 

I recognize, of course, that everyone eventually gains access to high-rank internals, items, and mechs.  I also recognize that this patch wouldn't dramatically shift the "balance of power" within the PC community.  However, that's no comfort to ego-bruised newbies whose first reactions involve blaming their opponents' "pay2win mechs".

Edited by Nept, 27 July 2016 - 02:27 AM.

[BlackWarGreymon]

^That's a situation that is only going to get worse, considering many times I and other players have been called out as 'p2w losers' and similar charming names- baring in mind very few of us have spent a single penny of real money on the game, not even on cosmetics, let alone unlocking weapons or mechs ( faster ).  try as you might to explain that the game is 5+ years old and that you've had all the mechs unlocked for years by grinding, but they don't want to hear it; the perception of pay to win is indeed far too strong and needs to be addressed urgently. I'd suggest reviewing prices ( HC and MC ), and having regular XP and HC Boost events, like we used to have until a couple years back...

[crockrocket]

While we've some stark ANY VERTICAL PROGRESSION IS TERRIBLE posters, my main concern isn't the slight power differential between G1 and G2 mechs.  It's the pay2win perception surrounding Hawken - a perception which Adhesive didn't address, and which Reloaded has worsened.  F2P shooters often address pay2win concerns by adding variety through sidegrades while emphasizing opponent parity.  With these direct upgrades, though, console Hawken provides paying customers direct and obvious advantages.  Are they significant advantages?  Not all of them, as you've noted.  But I'm concerned that they're enough to turn frustrated players from the game.  And they're certainly sufficient fodder for pay2win reviews.

 

I recognize, of course, that everyone eventually gains access to high-rank internals, items, and mechs.  I also recognize that this patch wouldn't dramatically shift the "balance of power" within the PC community.  However, that's no comfort to ego-bruised newbies whose first reactions involve blaming their opponents' "pay2win mechs".

 

This is exactly what I'm worried about. There are a lot of things RLD can screw up that aren't too worrisome for the long term, but player retention is not one of them. Hardly anyone is going to try a game more than once. And now that we have some population numbers for console, I'm worried that we're already seeing the effects of poor player retention.

Edited by crockrocket, 27 July 2016 - 10:39 AM.

[ATX22]

This is exactly what I'm worried about. There are a lot of things RLD can screw up that aren't too worrisome for the long term, but player retention is not one of them. Hardly anyone is going to try a game more than once. And now that we have some population numbers for console, I'm worried that we're already seeing the effects of poor player retention.

If it plays out in any way similar to the steam launch for PC; we'll know in a month.

[StubbornPuppet]

I'd like to disagree with CounterLogicMan's above statement that says that a 50 point difference in armor is a complete non-issue.  Sorry, but 50 points of armor is a big difference between life and death in a direct skirmish.  And even if a player is just corner-poking or sniping, 50 armor points is enough to make the difference between "one more shot" and "run for your life".

[nepacaka]

I'd like to disagree with CounterLogicMan's above statement that says that a 50 point difference in armor is a complete non-issue.  Sorry, but 50 points of armor is a big difference between life and death in a direct skirmish.  And even if a player is just corner-poking or sniping, 50 armor points is enough to make the difference between "one more shot" and "run for your life".

He probably mean (like i understand) that only brawler have such big HP bonus, all other G2 is less (but +/- 10% stats buff any way, the same like tuning or skill-tree), and it is mostly working only with first encounter. it is actually get you a "last chance" and can safe you from one deadly rocket in face, which kill can assault, but not kill a brawler.

It is not a big deal if 1-3 people focus on you, but still can be good at 1vs1.
but... there is no duel in hawken �\_(?)_/�

Edited by nepacaka, 27 July 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Flifang]

I suppose I didn't consider the item/internal upgrades to be that big but after thinking about it a little more I can clearly see that's the issue. I think some of the disadvantage newer players have can be somewhat mitigated if we have like daily or bi-weekly events where you can get a free upgrade on a single thing on one of your mechs, or maybe have a specific upgrade pop up for a specific mech that you can grab once for free. I remember back in the spring of summer 2013 when I first started playing there was a double xp weekend like 3 times a month for a few months. It was a huge incentive to play, even though it was my first ever fps and the game was brand new to me. I also remember that the crt came with its own internals till you reached a certain point in the progression. Those internals were pretty good and unique if I remember correctly. That was a loooooooong time ago though. Maybe somebody else with info written down or somebody who remembers and is willing to can bring more info of this to the table?

Edited by Flifang, 27 July 2016 - 04:30 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

No, the point is that being unique/non-generic doesn't guarantee popular success.  Which is what you claimed here:

 

Good games can be critically successful but not commercially successful, commercially successful but not critically, or both commercially and critically successful. Hawken is none of those things. 

Edited by Superkamikazee, 28 July 2016 - 10:39 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

Host tournaments every three months with cash prizes of at the very least $1k/500/250 and optionally run separate amateur ones, hold periodic events with double XP and one or more free mechs after x matches played, communicate with us, and get people streaming and you've got both player retention and new interest on the cheap if you can keep the meta fresh with occasional new mechs and thought-out stat adjustments when strategies become too dominant. Consistently pump out easily-created cosmetics between content patches so people have something shiny to spend money on while gitting gud. Stop coming up with transparent borderline P2W mechanics and focus on fundamentals that keep players enjoying Hawken while also improving its image among the broader gaming community. It's really not that hard lol. It's absolutely baffling to me that Meteor never held seasonal tournaments with at least 20k prize pools after closed beta when Hawken had over $10m in funding and instead chose to blow their capital on stupid fuzzy bunny but I'm sure you can come up with a minimum of $7k annually if you give people reasons to play your game and make purchases.

Edited by JeffMagnum, 28 July 2016 - 02:26 PM.

[crockrocket]

Host tournaments every three months with cash prizes of at the very least $1k/500/250 and optionally run separate amateur ones, hold periodic events with double XP and one or more free mechs after x matches played, communicate with us, and get people streaming and you've got both player retention and new interest on the cheap if you can keep the meta fresh with occasional new mechs and thought-out stat adjustments when strategies become too dominant. Consistently pump out easily-created cosmetics between content patches so people have something shiny to spend money on while gitting gud. Stop coming up with transparent borderline P2W mechanics and focus on fundamentals that keep players enjoying Hawken while also improving its image among the broader gaming community. It's really not that hard lol. It's absolutely baffling to me that Meteor never held seasonal tournaments with at least 20k prize pools after closed beta when Hawken had over $10m in funding and instead chose to blow their capital on stupid fuzzy bunny but I'm sure you can come up with a minimum of $7k annually if you give people reasons to play your game and make purchases.

 

That all depends on RLD having the resources, and judging by the numbers on console they might not.

[JeffMagnum]

Well they're sponsoring streams right now and did all the tie-ins earlier so I imagine they can easily scrounge up $1.75k within three months. They managed to significantly overhaul a lot of the core aspects of the game so they should also have the time to adjust a few numbers based on well-reasoned feedback, and they can probably outsource camo design to someone for hardly any money if they don't have anyone in their studio free to work on something that trivial. I'm almost 100% certain they could make more than they spend paying some halfway decent freelance artist to come up with skins from even just the existing community.

[ATX22]

How exactly would tournaments, even with cash prizes help Hawken's player retention and image issues?  At least within the PC scene, what new group of people would it even appeal to on the competitive / non-amateur side?

 

Until Reloaded solves the player retention issues (still waiting to see if the console ports suffer from this), IMHO, tournaments would be a waste of time and resources.  They need start adding/fixing new maps, actual new mechs, new weapons, and clan/squad/voice chat/trade functionality to Hawken, again, IMHO.

[JeffMagnum]

I was assuming they'd be pushing out patches too and not just having tournaments while leaving the game as it is currently. I think officially supporting a healthy competitive scene that includes a separate amateur league and tournaments for new players with <x hours of playtime drawn in by updates is the best solution. It'd give people a reason to stick with the game and improve without having to directly compete with others who have over four years of experience while also giving skilled players a reason to come back. That would additionally promote high-level streaming and player-made content which are necessary for the long-term survival of a game.

Edited by JeffMagnum, 28 July 2016 - 08:16 PM.

[crockrocket]

Dear developers: if you want a solid advertising platform, this is it. Find a way to implement spectator mode successfully and stream the most competitive, highest tier games that this community has to offer.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

Dear developers: if you want a solid advertising platform, this is it. Find a way to implement spectator mode successfully and stream the most competitive, highest tier games that this community has to offer.

 

Where even did you get this.

[Hyginos]

Where even did you get this.

 

Here.

 

For future reference, the little speech bubble icon in the upper right of the quote box is a perma link to the quoted comment. That one was in the tpg season 2 continuation thread.

Edited by Hyginos, 29 July 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Here.

 

For future reference, the little speech bubble icon in the upper right of the quote box is a perma link to the quoted comment. That one was in the tpg season 2 continuation thread.

Stop it with your sense-making.

[crockrocket]

Where even did you get this.

 

I was foruming drunk and somehow stumbled across it

[ticklemyiguana]

I was foruming drunk and somehow stumbled across it

Appropriate, then.

[Xacius]

Alright. Who else want's their argument neutered? 

 

 

I suppose I didn't consider the item/internal upgrades to be that big but after thinking about it a little more I can clearly see that's the issue. 

 

Whose arguments are you neutering, exactly?  Your own?  

[Flifang]

Whose arguments are you neutering, exactly?  Your own?  

Careful, if you spend too much time here and not in the game I fear you might forget how another game UI feature works. Probably another one that's been there for years too!

[crockrocket]

Careful, if you spend too much time here and not in the game I fear you might forget how another game UI feature works. Probably another one that's been there for years too!

I just can't help but laugh every time this comes up. It's just some of the pettiest ad hominem I've seen