19 replies to this topic

[Saturnine]

In the #hawkenscrim IRC, the subject of turret mode came up, and along with it the strategy of sending explosives behind the turreted mech and remote detonating them to take advantage of the reduced rear armor. Thinking about this, I wondered how advanced strategies could be taught in the game with less pressure on new players, partly as a way to improve the tutorial system, partly as a way to give players who are better at the game a more interesting challenge with a reward.

 

The first thing I thought of was the challenges that come with many of Blizzard's games - like in Starcraft 2 or Hearthstone. You are given a pre-determined set of units or cards, are presented with a unique challenge, and asked to solve it. Like "Here's 5 battlecruisers, blow up these 10 missile turrets without losing a cruiser" or something like that. Completing these challenges unlocks cosmetic stuff like avatars or skins or what have you. 

 

We could do the same thing with Hawken. Create a series of contrived challenges - some of which could be done in the VR environment like the tutorial, others could be using specialized situations within the actual maps. Or even a mix. Present players with challenges like:

• "You are piloting a Berserker. Your opponent is hiding behind cover, and you can't move to flank him. You have 5 TOW shots to kill the enemy Raider before overheating, within x amount of time; good luck."
• A turreted Vanguard is rushing your position down a corridor as an Infiltrator. Hitting it just from the front won't kill it before it kills you, but the corridor is too short and narrow to reliably get behind it, and if you did, it would just turn around. Your goal: Survive.
• An advanced Crion mech has been salvaged from the Viruses' origin point by a Sentium infiltrator. This mech is capable of remaining permanently invisible while still moving at full speed and firing. Use your radar to determine the enemies' location and destroy it before it destroys you. Prosk is counting on you: over and out.
• Etc.

You could have a set of several of these challenges, each of them either teaching advanced tactics that aren't well covered in the current tutorial, or putting the player in seemingly overwhelming odds and challenging them to come out on top. These challenges could be organized into difficulty tiers, with rewards for completing each tier, whether they be unique skins, avatars, repair drones, or any combination of the above. Similar challenges could be set up for pre-made parties of 2 or more players, upping the difficulty of the challenges and teaching players how to best work as a team in different mechs and in different situations.

 

Let me know what you think about this suggestion, and whatever horrible downfall to it there is that I've managed to miss due to my infinite lameness. Alternatively or additionally, post your own suggestions for challenges that could be included in this set!

Edited by Saturnine, 06 April 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[Miscellaneous]

capnjosh plz

[CrimsonKaim]

Yes.

[SandSpider2]

Great ideas. WE NEED THIS! Or something like it. It would be possible to do if we had somewhere like Redstone Training Facility. All of these things and more could be housed there. Take the training to the next level!

Edited by SandSpider2, 06 April 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Dr_Freeze001]

Hmm, would be nice for Saturday training. 

 

"Everyone pick a partner. Now get around the corner and try to hit him/her. Switch when he explodes."

*Approved by the Illal Education Agency.

[Guns_N_Rozer]

Yes .good idea .super like

[Hyginos]

It might be nice to have a radar tutorial that goes the other way as well:

"Much like a T-rex's vision is based on movement, this Mega Boss Brawler can only find you with radar and line of sight. Evade it for one minute"

 

Also how about:

"A wounded enemy mech is hiding in that shield. EMP it so you can kill him"

 

Lastly, there needs to be something explaining weapon utility. I see lots of players don't know that hellfires can be locked, or that sabots have a scope.

Edited by Hyginos, 06 April 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Loglino]

This would be a great amount of content to the game and it could be fairly easily implemented as long as they can figure out the AI of the bots and edit/create maps as areas for these missions. If they could already finish a large amount of bug fixes and implement a new loadout after only a few weeks, this could happen. I would personally like to see something along the lines of showdown, having you kill mechs that jump out while you have double health and the object is to survive/get to the transport waiting for you. That or maybe some sort of assault on a camp or storage site where you can do Coop and kill with strategy, maybe even as a PVP mode to work better.

[Amidatelion]

I dig the idea, but to simplify it, make all of them accomplishable in game modes without needing the tutorial, and have the first one pop up as as objective in the first game mode someone plays. Have an option to "set" them as an objective in maps via the launch screen.

 

Lastly, tie them to Steam achievements.

[Kindos7]

Eliminate 9003 enemy mechs with your Raider to unlock the ICE Beam.

[SparkyJJC]

Here's what was said in the IRC:

Spoiler

<SparkyJJC> The turret mode on some of the C-classes are a bit useless. or it could just be the brawler's. Is the vanguard's any good?

<Hyginos> this is also useful: http://i.imgur.com/RVTaae3.png

<SparkyJJC> and thanks ;)

<Hyginos> vangaurds is the only one worth using ever.

<shosca> Hyginos: where's the heat?

<Hyginos> I dunno shosca, its pulled right from the salty stats.

<shosca> i mean do one for the heat generation

<Hyginos> http://i.imgur.com/7vTzbU3.png

<Hyginos> damn I'm good.

<SparkyJJC> Is there anything special about is Hyginos? or is it literally just a "Shield front, make back weaker"?

<shosca> i should add these to stats

<SparkyJJC> Cause at least Rocketeer provies auto-locking

<SparkyJJC> provides*

<SparkyJJC> it's also faster lol

<Hyginos> vangaurd is the fastest among turrets and it also has the highest damage reduction IIRC.

<SparkyJJC> ah right kk

<Hyginos> I never use turret mode myself though. Nver been able to pull it off.

<SparkyJJC> Now I need a good C-class cosmetic loadout so I don't like walking around looking like someone jabbed a fork into an over sized stuffing-ball

<SparkyJJC> Hyginos: I find it to be most useful in hallways

<SparkyJJC> Meaning it's pretty good in Uptown

<Hyginos> And origin.

<SparkyJJC> yep

<SparkyJJC> For one, they're not getting behind you if you see an enemy in a hallway

<SparkyJJC> and if you've got a miniflak they may as well stand there because they're not getting out of that alive.

<Hyginos> Lots of players will shoot a tow/gl over your head and detonate it behind you though.

<Hyginos> you have to push them so they can't chip you to death from a corner.

<Hyginos> I'm suprised there hasn't been a post on the forums about the leaderboards.

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<Saturnine> Has it ever been suggested to implement a Blizzard-style set of challenges to be completed either alone or with a group? As an example, think about the challenges in Starcraft 2 where you're given a set of units, and challenged to take out another set of units while taking the fewest casualties, etc.

<Saturnine> I think something like that could be really fun to do in Hawken, and would be a convenient way to teach about advanced strategies, like exploding TOWs/GLs behind turreted enemies to kill them faster.

<Saturnine> You could have challenges like "kill this with less than x tow shots" while an enemy is hiding behind cover and you have a TOW and AR, but can't come around to flank the enemy.

<Hyginos> Or "kill this invisible mech that will occasionaly boost or fire" to teach radar.

<Saturnine> exactly

<Hyginos> the radar certainly needs better tutorial

<Saturnine> I'll make a thread about it, barring an objection.

<Hyginos> do it.

<Hyginos> right now the only mention of radar in the tutorial is laila saying "use your radar to find enemies" or the like

Edited by SparkyJJC, 06 April 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[EM1O]

Tutorials to teach what many have learned over the years by practice, or by stumbling upon it by accident. How many times have I gotten raged at for snuffing someone around a corner by detonating a TOW past that corner, or 2 weeks ago, accused of "targeting" by consistently picking enemies out of the air with Infil grenade burst indirect kills. These people thought these maneuvers were hacks...unaware it was skill-based or even built into the game. ("How can you aim and hit me when you can't even SEE me??? Hacker!")

Having learning tools for aspects of weapons such as these examples would not just be a "good idea", they could be essential new-player retention factors.

Excellent proposals.

Edited by em1o, 06 April 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[Reippers]

Very good this idea, has my positive.

[AxionOperandi]

Yeah, neat idea.

 

And how about for completing all of this (or one of the major teirs) the reward would be the CR-T?

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Yeah, neat idea.

 

And how about for completing all of this (or one of the major teirs) the reward would be the CR-T?

 

Not sure if newer players would consider that much of a reward - since there was complaints about it's looks beforehand. I do understand where you are coming from though because Fred currently doesn't have a place in the Hawken world. ;(

 

I like the idea. I think the rewards should be HC - because that seems to be a problem with newer players - and that the final reward, for completing all of the challenges should be a camo. And, for the sake of lore, that these tests are training tests for new recruits for war in the "Crion Training Centre", and that the events are "holographic generated events which can happen on the battlefield". It's a rough idea, maybe more people can make it more solid and better.

 

But don't make it for only new players. I don't want to see another tour on "how to fire a TOW and blow it up mid-air to kill this mech" - yes, maybe make that one of the first, but I don't want to see too many baby-like challenges which teaches you some of the basics/more advanced features of the games. I want challenges. Put me in the middle of a 3v1, with all the opposing mechs staring me down with TOWs, GLs and Hellfires pointed at my face. Make it difficult. Make it a challenge for the older players. Make getting that camo make people filled with pride - like when you show it off, it's not about "look, I've played for xxx amount of hours, I'm a pro" but "look, I was able to pass the extreme tests which Crion had set for me and I've got this".

 

Just what I think.

[Scow2]

Tutorials to teach what many have learned over the years by practice, or by stumbling upon it by accident. How many times have I gotten raged at for snuffing someone around a corner by detonating a TOW past that corner

Amusingly... this one is in the current tutorial!

[Hyginos]

Amusingly... this one is in the current tutorial!

 

True, but putting it together with radar awareness for blind detonations is a surprisingly large step.

[AxionOperandi]

Not sure if newer players would consider that much of a reward - since there was complaints about it's looks beforehand. I do understand where you are coming from though because Fred currently doesn't have a place in the Hawken world. ;(

If thats the only place to get Fred I think it would be a pretty cool reward.  It makes Fred sort of exclusive, and fits pretty well considering Fred is supposed to be the "training mech". 

 

Sort of how Gran Turismo was (still is?) for completing the racing license tests, getting a unique car at the end of each test.  I mean throwing HC in would be good too as you go along but I think the best reward and incentive for completing scenarios/challenges should be exclusive items, camos, mech parts, or even tweaked mech variants.

Edited by AxionOperandi, 07 April 2015 - 11:08 AM.

[Saturnine]

One important aspect of this idea that some of you guys touched on is that while parts of this could serve as an advanced tutorial, the word advanced should be the primary modifier for most of these challenges. The first few could be comparatively simple challenges, but the ones farther down the line should be truly challenging. They should be reasonable challenges for even 2100 or 2200+ MMR players. The later ones especially should be genuine challenges that ought to be considered a mark of actual skill by those who are able to complete them. No half-assing these, if you want to get the top tier of rewards, you really ought to have to work for them.

 

Having said that, I do think that having these as an avenue to teach higher level strategies and smarter play, so that more people can learn to play extremely well, is an opportunity that should not be missed with this. But an implementation shouldn't make the mistake of making these into a straight tutorial that everyone is expected to complete at all levels right from the start.

[sabrehawk90]

Nice idea. This would knock out two birds with one stone - lore and teaching players the depths of the game mechanics. Maybe we could have team versions of this that emphasize teamwork / strategy on servers?