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This topic is locked
rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 28 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:
the idea isn't outlandish.
In your opinion.
i design game mechanics for a living.
I can state I'm a rocket scientist for NASA, but that doesn't make it so. Do try to back your arguments with solid reasoning, and not by the whole "I'm a professional and you're not" thing. I mean, first off, if you are a game design professional as you claim to be, you should have absolutely no trouble backing your design ideas with logic and reason, rather than "It's cool so obviously it would make the game better." And secondly, professionals don't use "I'm a professional" as a way to say "I know better than you", they would use it in the sense "I'm a professional and this is my perspective on the matter" shortly followed by backing that opinion with solid evidence, which you have not done. And considering your general attitude, skill in describing your ideas and general poor typing habits, you don't strike me as a professional.
and im upset that you are a rude arrogant troll on the forum.
Take a close look at how you act and treat people. Why are you surprised that they treat you poorly_ You do no favors for yourself when you act so spiteful and arrogant. And it is not our fault when you fail to back your reasons with solid points. That is your failure, and you shouldn't be getting upset that people then point out holes in your reasoning.
i could show you videos of me kicking arse on armored core 1-4 as well but there is no point.
You right. There is no point, because while it shows you may be a competent gamer in general, it does not prove that you have a good idea of how Hawken mechanics work, or your skill as a Hawken pilot.
end of the day you have an attitude problem, and stepped on a land mine when tried to bully me on a forum, without knowing who i was, what my skill level is.
if i was some scrub you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself.
And you say he has the attitude problem.
so here i am AGAIN dragging the topic of conversation back AGAIN onto what matters, which btw, isn't your 'opinion'.
So now, for some arbitrary reason, your opinion somehow matters and his doesn't_
dual wielding primary weapons
Would that make the game better_ more money for this start up company_ more fun for the players_ better reviews_
HELL YES
I would like to provide solid empirical evidence that implementing dual weapons would Hawken any more profitable and fun than if it didn't have them.
why_
its simple, the different primary weapons have inbuilt strengths and weaknesses. having teh player FORCED to take a missile launcher FORCES them to play a certain style.
it FORCES them to have certain strength , the High alpha and accuracy/ range of the TOW for example.
If they had the FREEDOM OF CHOICE to take 2x SMG. then they LOSE the TOW.
get it_ you are SACRIFICING THE TOW FOR MORE SMG BULLETS.
This means that although you throw words like 'balance' and 'game-play mechanics' around, you don't actually understand them.
Now that I'm actually doing the math, it shows that you actually don't understand what balance means.
Let's take the example of your favored double SMCs. They could deal 1175 damage in 6.75 seconds, at which point they overheat. A SMC/TOW combo does 1220 damage in 9.8 seconds (overheat time).
A double SMC combo would deal 28% more damage in 6.75 seconds. Do you realize how ridiculous that is_
The loss in of utility isn't so much of a drawback that you would give it up for killing power that superior. You just get in your enemies face, and shred them. Hell, you can even mitigate your inability so hit someone behind cover just by taking an HE Charge.
dual TOW for example wouldn't be overpowered, it would be similar to fighting someone in quake 3 or unreal who is using a rocket launcher.
i killed plenty of fools using a rocket launcher.
i wouldn't feel at an unfair disadvantage if i was using 2 smg's vs a dual TOW or dual Heat Cannon.
First off, that is a terrible comparison. The mechanics and movement in those games is dissimilar enough that trying to draw a direct comparison to Hawken in those particular regards is absurd.
Secondly, combos like the TOW/TOW would be incredibly gimped. because you can only fire a TOW once every 3 seconds. That would give plenty of time for an auto/auto user to get in and start shredding them. On the other hand, a HEAT/HEAT user would never even be seen, likely only popping out of cover to knock massive amounts of health off targets from a range. Dual Sabot's would effectively be 2-shotting everything. I really feel like you haven't though out what would happen with every dual weapon combo, how the DPS works out, and how some combo's are vastly better than anything else you could take.
it would be one hell of a adrenaline rush.
It would be a cluster!@#$ of bad balance.
see... most of combat isn't the guns, the guns don't win the game for you.
accuracy, speed, movement, tactics, map control, carefully selected mech-upgrades. THESE are the things that result in the win.
But winning requires fighting (broken Siege mode aside), and obviously the guns are a huge part of fighting.
In your opinion.
i design game mechanics for a living.
I can state I'm a rocket scientist for NASA, but that doesn't make it so. Do try to back your arguments with solid reasoning, and not by the whole "I'm a professional and you're not" thing. I mean, first off, if you are a game design professional as you claim to be, you should have absolutely no trouble backing your design ideas with logic and reason, rather than "It's cool so obviously it would make the game better." And secondly, professionals don't use "I'm a professional" as a way to say "I know better than you", they would use it in the sense "I'm a professional and this is my perspective on the matter" shortly followed by backing that opinion with solid evidence, which you have not done. And considering your general attitude, skill in describing your ideas and general poor typing habits, you don't strike me as a professional.
and im upset that you are a rude arrogant troll on the forum.
Take a close look at how you act and treat people. Why are you surprised that they treat you poorly_ You do no favors for yourself when you act so spiteful and arrogant. And it is not our fault when you fail to back your reasons with solid points. That is your failure, and you shouldn't be getting upset that people then point out holes in your reasoning.
i could show you videos of me kicking arse on armored core 1-4 as well but there is no point.
You right. There is no point, because while it shows you may be a competent gamer in general, it does not prove that you have a good idea of how Hawken mechanics work, or your skill as a Hawken pilot.
end of the day you have an attitude problem, and stepped on a land mine when tried to bully me on a forum, without knowing who i was, what my skill level is.
if i was some scrub you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself.
And you say he has the attitude problem.
so here i am AGAIN dragging the topic of conversation back AGAIN onto what matters, which btw, isn't your 'opinion'.
So now, for some arbitrary reason, your opinion somehow matters and his doesn't_
dual wielding primary weapons
Would that make the game better_ more money for this start up company_ more fun for the players_ better reviews_
HELL YES
I would like to provide solid empirical evidence that implementing dual weapons would Hawken any more profitable and fun than if it didn't have them.
why_
its simple, the different primary weapons have inbuilt strengths and weaknesses. having teh player FORCED to take a missile launcher FORCES them to play a certain style.
it FORCES them to have certain strength , the High alpha and accuracy/ range of the TOW for example.
If they had the FREEDOM OF CHOICE to take 2x SMG. then they LOSE the TOW.
get it_ you are SACRIFICING THE TOW FOR MORE SMG BULLETS.
This means that although you throw words like 'balance' and 'game-play mechanics' around, you don't actually understand them.
Now that I'm actually doing the math, it shows that you actually don't understand what balance means.
Let's take the example of your favored double SMCs. They could deal 1175 damage in 6.75 seconds, at which point they overheat. A SMC/TOW combo does 1220 damage in 9.8 seconds (overheat time).
A double SMC combo would deal 28% more damage in 6.75 seconds. Do you realize how ridiculous that is_
The loss in of utility isn't so much of a drawback that you would give it up for killing power that superior. You just get in your enemies face, and shred them. Hell, you can even mitigate your inability so hit someone behind cover just by taking an HE Charge.
dual TOW for example wouldn't be overpowered, it would be similar to fighting someone in quake 3 or unreal who is using a rocket launcher.
i killed plenty of fools using a rocket launcher.
i wouldn't feel at an unfair disadvantage if i was using 2 smg's vs a dual TOW or dual Heat Cannon.
First off, that is a terrible comparison. The mechanics and movement in those games is dissimilar enough that trying to draw a direct comparison to Hawken in those particular regards is absurd.
Secondly, combos like the TOW/TOW would be incredibly gimped. because you can only fire a TOW once every 3 seconds. That would give plenty of time for an auto/auto user to get in and start shredding them. On the other hand, a HEAT/HEAT user would never even be seen, likely only popping out of cover to knock massive amounts of health off targets from a range. Dual Sabot's would effectively be 2-shotting everything. I really feel like you haven't though out what would happen with every dual weapon combo, how the DPS works out, and how some combo's are vastly better than anything else you could take.
it would be one hell of a adrenaline rush.
It would be a cluster!@#$ of bad balance.
see... most of combat isn't the guns, the guns don't win the game for you.
accuracy, speed, movement, tactics, map control, carefully selected mech-upgrades. THESE are the things that result in the win.
But winning requires fighting (broken Siege mode aside), and obviously the guns are a huge part of fighting.
Omega22, on November 28 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:
Why worry about the technical side of Dual wielding Primaries... i said Primaries not Secondaries.... let the Hawken Team compensate the in balance that may arise .... give the option to the player ... Do you want to equip your mech with dual primary guns in the load out screen.. have a button placed there and lets see how many clicks we would get ...
I am sure it will add to the fun factor ... so let the masses vote .... Give the player the option to decide if he wants to dual wield or not ... if he does not want to don't click that button ... but don't cry , complain, ridicule, bring down,mock or discourage... we all want have the same wish and the same goal here on this Forum ... Make Hawken The No 1 Mech Game in Gaming History in this ERA...
So please let Team Hawken decide ... BETA 4 = DUAL WEAPONS TRAIL.. Lock and Load
I am sure it will add to the fun factor ... so let the masses vote .... Give the player the option to decide if he wants to dual wield or not ... if he does not want to don't click that button ... but don't cry , complain, ridicule, bring down,mock or discourage... we all want have the same wish and the same goal here on this Forum ... Make Hawken The No 1 Mech Game in Gaming History in this ERA...
So please let Team Hawken decide ... BETA 4 = DUAL WEAPONS TRAIL.. Lock and Load
Beta testing does not just mean you got early access to the game, and to suggest whatever improvement you think is cool.
A good beta tester considers the implications and ramifications of what they are giving feedback on.
They consider whether the current mechanics are balanced and work, or if they don't. And if they don't, they think about why, and possible ways to improve it.
They consider what their suggestions of what they might like to see fits within the game, is balanced and fair and works out in a reasonable manner.
Most of all, they do their research, and see if the topic has already been addressed, and as you can see by D20's post, the devs have already considered dual weapons and rejected them.
Edited by AsianJoyKiller, November 28 2012 - 09:43 AM.
