47 replies to this topic

[QuanZen]

Snoof, on November 28 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

I've already posted a topic about the bruises getting "bruised" with the nerf bat at the start of this beta, quit reposting my opinions

I actually have seen a lot of threads concerning the Bruisers short comings. This one however is becoming the most popular. Doesn't make since to get jealous over that...simply join in on the conversation, and provide us with a link to your own thread so we can put our thoughts there as well. No reason at all to become hostile.

[PiVoR]

Conquistador, on November 28 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm getting conflicting views on hellfires, but since I didn't ask for them to be changed in this thread, perhaps this is the wrong thread to discuss hellfire balance. I will, however, say that smart players seem to be able to dodge hellfires with almost no effort.

Regardless of Hellfires, bruiser seems to be currently made or broken by the Vulcan, so I'm glad we agree on that much, at least.

IMO there is correlation between those two weapons, at last in Bruiser example. Helfire missiles are very weak in close range so you can only relay on Vulcan, in contrast to A mechs that can pump alot of dps from their both weapons. I can propose to make Helfires launch in staright line when fired without lock-on, this could give it some edge in CQB.

[Conquistador]

PiVoR, on November 28 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Conquistador, on November 28 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm getting conflicting views on hellfires, but since I didn't ask for them to be changed in this thread, perhaps this is the wrong thread to discuss hellfire balance. I will, however, say that smart players seem to be able to dodge hellfires with almost no effort.

Regardless of Hellfires, bruiser seems to be currently made or broken by the Vulcan, so I'm glad we agree on that much, at least.

IMO there is correlation between those two weapons, at last in Bruiser example. Helfire missiles are very weak in close range so you can only relay on Vulcan, in contrast to A mechs that can pump alot of dps from their both weapons. I can propose to make Helfires launch in staright line when fired without lock-on, this could give it some edge in CQB.

Doesn't that create balance for the class, though_ Hellfires are excellent at long range but are terrible up close. Vulcan is terrible at long range but excellent up close. The overlapping fields of fire provide complementary situations where one weapon will offset the other's weaknesses... so long as there's no cover around. Both weapons thrive in open terrain which means the bruiser is weak in heavy terrain situations against burst damage weapons. I have no problems with this weakness, since it balances out the bruiser somewhat.

I don't want them to make the bruiser a powerhouse with no weaknesses in all situations. I'd rather they make it situationally strong and situationally weak depending on environmental factors. To do this, it's paramount that they correct the Vulcan.

Edited by Conquistador, November 29 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Karaipantsu]

The problem is the Vulcan isn't excellent up close yet.  It's overheat issues and relatively minor Damage mean you get less DPS per heat than you get out of an SMC, which is also ostesibly a CQC weapon.

[Conquistador]

Karaipantsu, on November 29 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

The problem is the Vulcan isn't excellent up close yet.  It's overheat issues and relatively minor Damage mean you get less DPS per heat than you get out of an SMC, which is also ostesibly a CQC weapon.

The tooltips promise us 9 seconds of sustained fire time based on heat buildup. Currently we only get seven. SMC is intended to be the superior CQC weapon, but Vulcan is supposed to punish enemies in open terrain, so this change will help push it towards that goal.

Edited by Conquistador, December 01 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[Karaipantsu]

I don't see how the SMC could be the superior CQC weapon with a lower fire rate and lower damage.  It certainly overheats much MUCH slower, but when there's a little bastard scout up in your grill wanting hugs, I'll take the more damage faster option over the more damage overall option.

[Jagdwyre]

Karaipantsu, on December 01 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

I don't see how the SMC could be the superior CQC weapon with a lower fire rate and lower damage.  It certainly overheats much MUCH slower, but when there's a little bastard scout up in your grill wanting hugs, I'll take the more damage faster option over the more damage overall option.

Uh, have you really used either weapon extensively_ In actual firefights the Vulcan almost always has a heat problem, regardless of whether you think that little bit of extra dps is worth it in 7 seconds or not. The SMC is a much more reliable weapon and in so many circumstances is able to keep firing when you need to stop with the Vulcan. Which yes, makes a pretty big difference.

Also, the SMC doesn't have lower rate of fire.

[Karaipantsu]

Vlucan's 8.7 vs. SMC's 8.3, so the Vulc does have a (slightly) higher ROF, and the Vulc does 2 whole damage more than the SMC (20% damage increase, comically) per shot.  But in reality, my point is that the weapon that deals out the most damage in the shortest amount of time is the superior CQC weapon, and that SHOULD be the Vulcan, because it's midrange is miserable compared to the SMC.  Currently, yes, the SMC is superior in nearly every curcumstance because it's heat management is superior and it's DPS is comparable, but I'd rather have the Vulcan be the superior CQC weapon and the SMC be the better mid range choice.