204 replies to this topic

[Timber_Wolf]

I think countermeasures would be fine as a third item slot, as well.  Once per life counter-item that further specialized and enhances your mech's role.  Whether that be offensively, defensively, or whatever.  Obviously there's not enough of them right now, but having it be an active item would add skill and another item you need for your mech.
Assault with the vulcan makes bruiser garbage, especially with a nerf to both vulcan and hellfire for no reason.  Especially with a one life item and ability for nonstop shooting.
Really disappointed that the only mechs with hellfire are the rocketeer or the bruiser who was already outclassed by the assault.

EDIT:  Bring back the defensive item category_

Edited by Timber_Wolf, December 11 2012 - 09:23 PM.

[Elix]

Guuuuuuys...

Let's actually play it before we declare it broken and Adhesive a horrible disappointment/bunch of P2W sellouts. Adhesive has made it very clear throughout the testing phases that they are listening to our feedback and incorporating it (although obviously not all of it) into Hawken. Why should this be any different_ Why should we suddenly distrust them_ Give them a chance.

Now, I can tell you that if it turns out that the Vanguard is tactically very OP and reinforcements are a transparent cash grab and even some of the other things people are assuming are going to be broken are broken, I'll be the one handing out torches and pitchforks at the head of the Angry Mob line while getting everyone to shout anti-P2W slogans in unison. (Okay, not literally.) But until that comes to pass, I think we should give Adhesive the benefit of the doubt and try the game out the way they've offered it to us. Innocent until proven guilty, my friends. If Adhesive does turn their backs on their prior "Hawken is not P2W" stance, then they deserve what they get. But I don't think you can decide that just from a bunch of patch notes that do not go into great detail about the game mechanics they mention.

TL;DR version: Keep your pants on until you've climbed into the cockpit and tried the new stuff out. If it's become evil, then come onto the forums and begin slagging off the devs for their crimes.

[145154151164145]

I think what is making most of us angry is the fact that they introduced a new element that is obviously meant as an income source (not that this is a bad thing) instead of rectifying a lot of things that have been discussed and agreed upon to be in need of change (and possibly exacerbated several problems),  along with playing with things that were for the most part fine.  The game modes and maps seem to have gotten a lot of love though, and im eager to sample the changes tomorrow.

Edited by 145154151164145, December 11 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Zeshi]

Elix, on December 11 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Guuuuuuys...

Let's actually play it before we declare it broken and Adhesive a horrible disappointment/bunch of P2W sellouts. Adhesive has made it very clear throughout the testing phases that they are listening to our feedback and incorporating it (although obviously not all of it) into Hawken. Why should this be any different_ Why should we suddenly distrust them_ Give them a chance.

Now, I can tell you that if it turns out that the Vanguard is tactically very OP and reinforcements are a transparent cash grab and even some of the other things people are assuming are going to be broken are broken, I'll be the one handing out torches and pitchforks at the head of the Angry Mob line while getting everyone to shout anti-P2W slogans in unison. (Okay, not literally.) But until that comes to pass, I think we should give Adhesive the benefit of the doubt and try the game out the way they've offered it to us. Innocent until proven guilty, my friends. If Adhesive does turn their backs on their prior "Hawken is not P2W" stance, then they deserve what they get. But I don't think you can decide that just from a bunch of patch notes that do not go into great detail about the game mechanics they mention.

TL;DR version: Keep your pants on until you've climbed into the cockpit and tried the new stuff out. If it's become evil, then come onto the forums and begin slagging off the devs for their crimes.

The thing is, even if counter measures were free (or a 1 time purchase that took up an item slot), it would still be a questionable mechanic at best.
1. Heat countermeasure- Fire vulcan for 27 seconds straight on assault/cancel out on of the things that makes hawken unique compared to other fps's.
2. Emp countermeasure- oops, i guess hes immune and i had no way of knowing that.
3. Scrambler counter measure- Why nerf an item that was already comparatively weaker_

[Omega22]

Something is better than nothing.... all hands brace for Impact !!!, Hawken is Released !!!

[SamSlade]

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

OPEN BETA PATCH NOTES

Countermeasures

We've added a new gameplay item called countermeasures. These automatic consumables activate when there is a status or condition present. Each activation consumes one countermeasure use. All countermeasures are drawn from an account-wide inventory of countermeasure uses, the pilot decides which (if any) countermeasure type to equip to a mech in their garage. Please note that countermeasures will only activate once per mech "life".

• Extinguisher: Reduces weapon heat upon overheat.
  
• Battery Charge: Reactivates systems disabled when affected by EMP effect.
  
• Descrambler: Renders mech immune to the Radar Scrambler effect.

Team HAWKEN likes to get this party started right, so each HAWKEN account will start with 15 countermeasure uses pre-stocked!

What a shock... Open Beta arrives and so does Hawkens first 'gold ammo'...

[bac9]

Sound awesome, although I'm very skeptical about the decision to keep infinite EU trees. EU tree depletion removal in CBT3 killed most of strategic aspect in gather stage of Siege matches. I'll try how Siege plays out with new changes before voicing concerns in a full thread though.

Congratulations on reaching Open Beta!

[PitViper401]

Elix, on December 11 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Guuuuuuys...

Let's actually play it before we declare it broken and Adhesive a horrible disappointment/bunch of P2W sellouts. Adhesive has made it very clear throughout the testing phases that they are listening to our feedback and incorporating it (although obviously not all of it) into Hawken. Why should this be any different_ Why should we suddenly distrust them_ Give them a chance.

Now, I can tell you that if it turns out that the Vanguard is tactically very OP and reinforcements are a transparent cash grab and even some of the other things people are assuming are going to be broken are broken, I'll be the one handing out torches and pitchforks at the head of the Angry Mob line while getting everyone to shout anti-P2W slogans in unison. (Okay, not literally.) But until that comes to pass, I think we should give Adhesive the benefit of the doubt and try the game out the way they've offered it to us. Innocent until proven guilty, my friends. If Adhesive does turn their backs on their prior "Hawken is not P2W" stance, then they deserve what they get. But I don't think you can decide that just from a bunch of patch notes that do not go into great detail about the game mechanics they mention.

TL;DR version: Keep your pants on until you've climbed into the cockpit and tried the new stuff out. If it's become evil, then come onto the forums and begin slagging off the devs for their crimes.

I agree with your general point but I'll damned if you're going to tell me how to pilot a mech!

“charge into battle, naked, like the Celts!”

[h0B0]

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

We have a correction to the patch notes. The number of countermeasures granted to each HAWKEN account will be 15, not 25.

Apologies for the mistake.

if they are meant to be tested in game, and were not implemented solely for economical purposes ( stoopid paranoid conspiracy theorist brain) would you mind allowing us access to all 25 of them. Considering they are limited in number and i can not controll when they are used it will be hard to do the proper testing/recording with the limited amount i am provided with.

Certainly i could buy them with HC but that would stunt my(and anyone else putting in the effort to test it out fully) personal progress in the game for the purpose of providing an educated forum reply that might get no recognition.

[Tzukasa]

Read through the notes and was loving it except for a few things. The assault doesn't have an offencive item anymore_ Or doesn't start with one_ Or just an accidential oversight in your post_ Was detonator same as whats listed on the vanny.

When I read the post and got to the counter measures I though hmm sounds 'ok' until I re-read it and saw it was auto and not activated. I also assumed that it would be ingame currency Only. So I read through All the posts and found this...

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Elix, on December 11 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Nowhere in the patch notes does it say that countermeasures require Meteor Points. If you can buy them with HC, it's not P2W.

Countermeasures are purchasable using either HAWKEN Credits or Meteor Credits.

I'm sorry but that is NOT acceptable. Being able to purchase them with Meteor creds is NOT cool At All. Sorry but I'm gonna have to draw a hard line here despite how they might work ingame, having them able to be bought with MC is simply breaking your promises imo. If we are gonna have them in game I'm 'ok' with that given that they be restricted per match to 1-3 uses (Not one per life but Per Match Total) and the kicker is they MUST be activateable. Auto use is fuzzy bunny and will lower the skill lvl. Plus it will simply make me mad cause I know that 90% of the time it will go off when I don't need it to/don't want to use it yet and make it feel like it was wasted & I had no control over it being wasted!

Like I said I'm all down for giving them a try and working them into the game but they can't, can't be purchased with MC guys idk how you could think that's not a direct breaking of your promises for core competitive ftp.

Edited by Tzukasa, December 11 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[OverWolf]

While I'd make a post addressing counter measures myself, I'd only be repeating what's already been said.

Whether or not their usage will be "game breaking" once OB begins, or if the Devs modify them in a way that pleases the overall community, I stand on the same line Tzukasa draws:

It doesn't matter even if they can be bought with Hawken Credits.  Enabling them to be purchased using real money for how they're currently able to be utilized in a match is a HUGE no-no.  You don't have to wait until OB begins to see this.

Edited by OverWolf, December 11 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[Elix]

Zeshi, on December 11 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

The thing is, even if counter measures were free (or a 1 time purchase that took up an item slot), it would still be a questionable mechanic at best.

Leaving aside the usefulness/uselessness of the countermeasures, I think that they should be considered an item that's equipped and that's purchased just like the current offensive/defensive items. To me, that makes more sense than consumables.

[Dackstrus]

Countermeasures had best be HP only purchases.

If their available for MP, I'ma start yelling P2W.

[GREW]

Elix, on December 11 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Leaving aside the usefulness/uselessness of the countermeasures, I think that they should be considered an item that's equipped and that's purchased just like the current offensive/defensive items. To me, that makes more sense than consumables.

Yes, pilots should decide whether to have the Offensive/Defensive items equipped or these countermeasures.

[Analysis]

Quote

Countermeasures

We've added a new gameplay item called countermeasures. These automatic consumables activate when there is a status or condition present. Each activation consumes one countermeasure use. All countermeasures are drawn from an account-wide inventory of countermeasure uses, the pilot decides which (if any) countermeasure type to equip to a mech in their garage. Please note that countermeasures will only activate once per mech "life".

• Extinguisher: Reduces weapon heat upon overheat.
  
• Battery Charge: Reactivates systems disabled when affected by EMP effect.
  
• Descrambler: Renders mech immune to the Radar Scrambler effect.

This idea seems out of place. The premise behind the countermeasures appears to reward a player that got out played. Battery Charge in particular makes EMP useless. The only saving grace is the counter measure is once per life. I will have to see how they play out tomorrow, but currently I'm skeptical. Thank you for giving the seekers less homing. I'm happy that TOW has remained untouched.

I'm happy to hear about improved stability though and that the server list will appear at the actual release.

I hope to see a new light mech to test tomorrow, but I will have fun either way.

[Elix]

Tzukasa, on December 11 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Also you were saying that the van drone Was a typo and Only cmder rank gets it right_ That was THE reason I got the cmder package and if your giving that to everyone idk were to even begin explaining my outrage.

If you read the OP, Scapes has corrected the line on the Vanguard drone and it clearly states it is for Commanders. It originally read as for all three, but that's because Scapes copypasta'd the Vanguard booster rocket line and forgot to remove the reference to all three. Again. So, no, that has not changed.

[Elix]

Dackstrus, on December 11 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

Countermeasures had best be HP only purchases.

If their available for MP, I'ma start yelling P2W.

Scapes has already said they are currently available for both MP or HC. Wait until you get into game and see how they're doing it before you say anything with a "2" in the middle, at least.

[Tzukasa]

Elix, on December 11 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

Tzukasa, on December 11 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Also you were saying that the van drone Was a typo and Only cmder rank gets it right_ That was THE reason I got the cmder package and if your giving that to everyone idk were to even begin explaining my outrage.

If you read the OP, Scapes has corrected the line on the Vanguard drone and it clearly states it is for Commanders. It originally read as for all three, but that's because Scapes copypasta'd the Vanguard booster rocket line and forgot to remove the reference to all three. Again. So, no, that has not changed.

Aye I saw he changed it and edited that line out of my post

Still very curious about the assault mech's offencive item.. Still nothing there >.<

Edited by Tzukasa, December 11 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Crabbit]

Woot! So excited! I'm glad you guys decided to buff the Rev-GL. No more turret collison... how we suppose to climb around the map to ridiculous positions, my bud RL is gonna be pissed 8)

[Interrobang]

I'm going to wait to make any assumptions about the countermeasures, don't knock it till you tried it. I'm not sure why people are saying its p2w, just because they're just introducing new content available with HP. I will say I am hesitant to the change though. I realize they're trying to make it easier for newbies and more difficult for good players who know how to stay alive. Since their main goal is to attract a lot of people, I can see why they want to appeal to the newbies. I feel like they should at least make it a one-time use item that is triggered like how items used to function. Something that works automatically and takes no effort is kind of silly.