204 replies to this topic

[z121231211]

[ADH]HUGHES, on December 11 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Hey Everyone

Countermeasures are indeed new but I encourage you to give them a shot tomorrow and see what you think. Players will equip them before spawning (if they so choose) in the staging area and are automatically activated during gameplay when the defined condition arises. Think of them as small safety nets for specific situations that can only be used once per life. Believe me, we'll be paying attention...

Thanks!

I would say 3 countermeasures per match, and limit to one from each category. One equipped at a time per life.

Also what do you have to say against this_ Or is that what you're testing out_

z121231211, on December 11 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

countermeasures would end up just making items useless, causing less people to use them, which ends up with less people buying items in the first place and less people buying countermeasures because they don't need them as much.

[QuanZen]

Conquistador, on December 11 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

[ADH]HUGHES, on December 11 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Hey Everyone

Countermeasures are indeed new but I encourage you to give them a shot tomorrow and see what you think. Players will equip them before spawning (if they so choose) in the staging area and are automatically activated during gameplay when the defined condition arises. Think of them as small safety nets for specific situations that can only be used once per life. Believe me, we'll be paying attention...

Thanks!

You do realise I can chain the overheat countermeasure to the assault mech's ability to fire my weapons for triple the time I could before, yes_

Let me guess. You probably also included the Vulcan as the assault mech's level 25 unlock. So I can fire the vulcan for essentially... let's see. 27 seconds. Non-stop. Per life.

I'm trying not to be snide here, but someone please tell me how this is even remotely balanced.

Hush!!! Your ruining all my plans!!!

[Leaders]

I can't say I'm surprised, I expected something like countermeasures to pop up. However, until I test them and see their cost and over all functionality in a real game setting I cannot be completely against them. I understand the need to broaden the revenue market but I can also see this being a typical case of a great dev team shooting themselves in the foot.

My hope is that after a week or so of the OB, and everyone has their say that the devs make a decision based primarily on the community input. At first glance this does seem like the type of thing that will drive your existing player base and discourage the many Play to Win naysayers even further..

[Coot]

[ADH]HUGHES, on December 11 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Hey Everyone

Countermeasures are indeed new but I encourage you to give them a shot tomorrow and see what you think. Players will equip them before spawning (if they so choose) in the staging area and are automatically activated during gameplay when the defined condition arises. Think of them as small safety nets for specific situations that can only be used once per life. Believe me, we'll be paying attention...

Thanks!

What I don't like about the automatic use is since they are charges which we must pay for (either in-game money or real money), charges can be used in situations which aren't needed, therefor;

1. Wasting your 1-time use per death
2. Using up a charge (which is a cost)
3. This should atleast be an on-use effect

An example is killing a mech right as they EMP you (this happens alot). This uses a charge which you could care less if you sat through the EMP duration.

From the information collected from posts it seems we know how these work, and can safely say these should be re-worked.

Edited by Coot, December 11 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Cepphei]

This counter measures are bad. If you want money, get it with something that DOES NOT afect the game balance and game play experience. We would gladly pay for things like that. Or even make it P2P. I hate F2P games because they're all P2W, and that sucks.
EMP is amazing, really cool, making it useless is just ridiculous. And as Conquistador said at #58, that heat thing is completly NOT balanced.
Edit: And you don't have even to think to use it. lol.

Edited by Cepphei, December 11 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[h0B0]

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on December 11 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Wow.
Countermeasures are extremely lame.

We'll be looking for constructive community feedback on the new elements of this build, please feel free to voice it (after trying it out for a bit).

http://community.pla...notes-feedback/

Constructive feedback provided. admitedly i have not tried them yet, but it doesnt change the fact that they are still gamebreaking. and by gamebreaking i mean they are required for competitive play and they remove game mechanics that provide depth to the game.

[Decoy101x]

Leaders, on December 11 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

My hope is that after a week or so of the OB, and everyone has their say that the devs make a decision based primarily on the community input. At first glance this does seem like the type of thing that will drive your existing player base and discourage the many Play to Win naysayers even further..

but its not pay to win. you can buy it with HC or MC.

Edited by Decoy101x, December 11 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[BLTasty]

I like what I see here. The countermeasures is an interesting idea, especially if a fire extinguisher is dangling from my wall and I rip it off to spray my engine. But it makes some sense, looking forward to how it all plays out. Keep up the good work

[Phaaze]

I personally think that counter measures as is (from my assumptions) are a very rough step in the right direction.

I think that it should be an item slot on your mech offensive item, defensive, counter item with plenty of balancing and tweaking.

I think that being able to counter 1 thing of your choice on your mech is a good addition but it should be 1 time buy and equip on your mech not buy as you go.  Also have 1 pre assigned free one per mech.

counter measure reduce weapon heat: plausably balanced but very dangerous line to walk.
others are good

Some (half arsed) examples may include:

Things like intercepting fire to stop 1 incomming explosive(s)

The anti emp

Anti radar scrambler

Turret/Turret mode disabler

Seeing invis

Something that shows bullet trajectory for a few secs

Instant mini baracade wall (destructable, but something to slow down someone chasing you.)
lol even an oil slick to slow someone down....could make it burnable too
Etc. ....Devs I love you for this one....

Edit: some typos

Edited by Phaaze, December 15 2012 - 08:32 PM.

[Leaders]

Decoy101x, on December 11 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Leaders, on December 11 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

My hope is that after a week or so of the OB, and everyone has their say that the devs make a decision based primarily on the community input. At first glance this does seem like the type of thing that will drive your existing player base and discourage the many Play to Win naysayers even further..

but its not pay to win. you can buy it with HC or MC.

It all really depends really. I'm still unsure of the exact details, but if it is going much like I (and others) seem to dread.. these items will become a necessity for competitive play and if this is the case and stockpiling them with HC + MC will happen. People will have to play quite a long time to grind out HC to stockpile.. and if this is something which will be allowed in clan matches or any sort of league its buy or fall behind due to a disadvantage.

There is a lot of assumptions there, but this can be potentially game breaking.

At the moment I hope this won't lead to a P2W format, however no one can be sure at this point.

[Conquistador]

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Assault Mech

All players will start with the Assault mech with the following loadout.

• Name: Assault
  
• Class: Medium (Class
  
• Chassis: Fred
  
• Ability: Weapons Coolant
  
• Primary Weapon: Assault Rifle
  
• Alternate Primary Weapon: Submachine Cannon
  
• Secondary Weapon: TOW Launcher
  
• Unlockable Prestige Weapon: Point-D Vulcan
  
• Support Item: Shield
  
• Offensive Internal: Radiator (Rookie Offensive Internal)
  
• Defensive Internal: Cage (Rookie Defensive Internal)
  
• Functional Internal: Regulator (Rookie Functional Internal)

Am I the only one who thinks this is an EXTREMELY BAD decision_ I'd rather slog through twenty-five levels to get the Point-D Vulcan + TOW + Coolant ability combination than buy the bruiser. In a single fell swoop, Adhesive has managed to completely decimate one of its mechs (Bruiser) to the point where its performance in one role is completely overshadowed by another mech (Assault).

That is, unless, the Bruiser gets a really good level 20 prestige unlock. Fingers crossed for FLAK cannon.

Edited by Conquistador, December 11 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[Phaaze]

accident double post-

Edited by Phaaze, December 11 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[Tetsuro]

ReachH, on December 11 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Since everyone is politely giving Adhesive/Meteor the benefit of the doubt, I will play devils advocate and read aloud for everyone the subtext of these patch notes.

Lets not kid ourselves, the countermeasures are a sly attempt to implement a soft pay-2-win system. They are not about balancing item usage, they are about creating an in-game economy of consumables to encourage people to spend money to be competitive. The fact that they switched from a limited item use to a cooldown mechanic in CB3 is just more evidence of their intentions.

EMPs will see a short drop in usage during the first player surge of OB, when people still have countermeasures, but will then increase and stabilize  encouraging people to get more countermeasures. When you now have to choose whether to spend HC on maintaining your counter measures or saving up for a new mech, MPs suddenly seem a little more necessary.

So well played for toeing the line with P2W. We can't accuse you outright of it yet, but lets not pretend this wasn't a subtle motioning toward a money grab.

So why don't YOU see how much would show our support for skins and the like (and we would for such a well made game), before introducing this rather transparent ploy to ensure continuous revenue, rather than suggesting we trial your duplicitous offering.

Please, I invite anyone from Adh/Met to tell me that I am missing something here. Just don't confirm my fears with silence or try and feed me the usual community damage control garbage, because that would make me very angry.

I'd like to further add that the fact that they are automatic and not player activated indicates a clear decision to forceably drain the players stock of countermeasure faster, thus increasing the need to replenish more often.  My hope would be that they are incredibly cheap, but the ridiculously high HP prices of CBE3 don't leave me with much confidence.

As far as how I feel about them gameplay wise; nothing should be automatic when it comes to a competetive environment.  Counters are good as they add depth to the game especially when you start thinking in terms of counters to counters, and counters to those counters ect ect. But not if they require no effort to perform.

Just my 2 cents. Still can't wait for OB, and hoping you guys will lay all my fears to rest.

Edited by Tetsuro, December 11 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[Scapes]

We have a correction to the patch notes. The number of countermeasures granted to each HAWKEN account will be 15, not 25.

Apologies for the mistake.

[Beemann]

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

We have a correction to the patch notes. The number of countermeasures granted to each HAWKEN account will be 15, not 25.

Apologies for the mistake.

Inb4 ZOMG WE R BEIN PUNISHD 4 PROTESTING

[Necro]

Beemann, on December 11 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Scapes, on December 11 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

We have a correction to the patch notes. The number of countermeasures granted to each HAWKEN account will be 15, not 25.

Apologies for the mistake.

Inb4 ZOMG WE R BEIN PUNISHD 4 PROTESTING

Lol.

I think i like the idea of what they are trying to do it just needs to be poked and prodded and broken and trashed into 1000 pieces by all the player for them to refine the it.

I feel it should need to be activated and i don't feel they should have to be re-bought so many times. This obv. gives the advantage to a playing character because they can buy tons of them.

We will see in 15 hours if they will hold up.

[OdinTheWise]

i agree with the idea of a manually activated counter, but i do not like the cooling one as it will not be a good idea

[145154151164145]

Ok..... So you buffed Assault, nerfed Bruiser SOME MORE,  added items that skill-less 13 year olds will beg mommy and daddy to buy because they need to be "better",  gave everyone the best internals to start with so there is almost no reason to buy different ones,  dare I say, made SS RIDICULOUSLY powerfull in the right hands (no scope sabot at mid ranges_ LOL gonna have fun with this...),  and changed some stuff that didn't need fixing / left stuff that should be fixed.

Huh_

Seriously, there are some good changes going on, but alot of this is just WTF.


To make it worse, now that open is a go there will be more people on the forums and a lot of them will be more "casual" players whose opinions will be more biased twords ease of play and the voices of those who have a genuine care for the betterment of the game will be diluted in the crowd.  I hope you guys take all suggestions with a grain of salt until you actually look at who its coming from.

[PitViper401]

145154151164145, on December 11 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

To make it worse, now that open is a go there will be more people on the forums and a lot of them will be more "casual" players whose opinions will be more biased twords ease of play and the voices of those who have a genuine care for the betterment of the game will be diluted in the crowd.  I hope you guys take all suggestions with a grain of salt until you actually look at who its coming from.

I'm not looking for a fight, but I really find it insulting to say that casual players looking for an enjoyable time without having an extreme difficulty is a bad thing.  Everyone should get to play and have fun, not just the hardcore contingent.

[145154151164145]

PitViper401, on December 11 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

145154151164145, on December 11 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

To make it worse, now that open is a go there will be more people on the forums and a lot of them will be more "casual" players whose opinions will be more biased twords ease of play and the voices of those who have a genuine care for the betterment of the game will be diluted in the crowd.  I hope you guys take all suggestions with a grain of salt until you actually look at who its coming from.

I'm not looking for a fight, but I really find it insulting to say that casual players looking for an enjoyable time without having an extreme difficulty is a bad thing.  Everyone should get to play and have fun, not just the hardcore contingent.

Nor am I,  but bowing to certain requests for changes / perseverance of  questionable game elements can and will unbalance the game if the wrong direction is taken.  Not to make an example of anyone,  but look at all topics started by Omega22.  Those are worst case scenario, but there will be a lot of more topics that ask for change in more subtle ways that  are more likely to entertain attention from the Devs and may set the game in a more unfavorable direction.

Im not trying to attack newbies or casual players.  Im just saying.

Edited by 145154151164145, December 11 2012 - 09:23 PM.