173 replies to this topic

[NoJustice]

IDReaper, on January 14 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

NoJustice, on January 14 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Never said I wanted it to be Pro. I just want people to not leave your team in a 2 v 5 or 3 v 5 situation because "I want a sandwich."  This isn't a soccer pick up.  These are people trying to earn points, exp, and practical experience which is severely hampered when you run off because you "Want a sandwich.".  Do you understand that the slot on your team may not be filled_  Do you understand that that 4 v 5 situation you leave your team with might become a 2 v 5_  Also, keep in mind probably at least 50% of people who quit do not have legitimate reasons.  They are just rage quitting. This wouldn't be so bad if this didn't happen in 3/5 games I take part in. "Enemy team has all three missile silos_  fuzzy bunny.  *checks scoreboard*  Well, I'm the only one left on my team.  Great." So now my options are to A) Try and find another game and hope it doesn't happen again or B ) stick it out, get destroyed due to numerically superior forces and get much less of a reward had everyone else just stayed and played the game.  Thank you for wasting my time.

And anyone who DOES join my team in that situation, they don't stick around.  Why should they have to fight their way out of a situation they didn't create or that might be difficult_  So Hawken's player base leaves when they do poorly, justify it, then believe they should have no penalty for leaving their teammate's ass in the breeze.  Nice.

Well you see I used the soccer example because you compared it to sports. I understand you completely, it's frustrating to get left on a team of 2 v 5. But this is still a game not matter what you may be earning towards it. Nobody needs to be subject to an obligation to play. As I said if you want a strong team based environment with stable and fair matches I suggest joining a clan and avoiding pubs. As I said before invoking a timed ban penalty on pub games where presumably people are playing casually or for fun is wrong. It is not as serious as you are making it out to be.

BUT continuing to argue you point now does not make too much sense because it isn't the solution, fixing matchmaking, adding in the missing server browser and community coordination is the solution. I stopped playing in clans a long time ago because I can't afford the luxury of scheduling playtime. There needs to be a place for me and everyone else who plays casually, and a place for people like you who take things more serious. We don't need to alienate a fairly large demographic of the player base here.

Just trying to put things in perspective, there is a reasonable way to solve your issue, I don't think your way is how it should be done. Honestly though I mean this with the best intentions, give a clan here a try. Hit one up in the sub-forums. I really do think this will make for a better experience for you.

So let me get this straight.  There is an obligation for you to play when you can't quit_  Is that what you think_ Where's the logic there_ No there's not.  Obligated means you are FORCED to play.  STOP USING THAT WORD.  The matches last just as long as they always do.  The ONLY obligation is for you to stick with your team and not leave them out to dry and rage quit because you can't hack it.  Besides, what do you think these people do when they quit_  Go into another game in Hawken.  So what you're saying is "You shouldn't be obligated to play if you're losing."

No one's going to put a gun to your head and say "YOu have to play hawken because we implemented these rules."  That's like saying I HAVE to play LoL because I can't quit.  I don't HAVE to play LoL.  And I can quit if something serious comes up, just like I've suggested.  However, if I quit all the time, leaving teams uneven and messing up everyone ELSE's game experience, THEN I can be banned from the game for a few days.  Did you read the part where I said you could quit between matches_  Some where you read "Once logged into Hawken, you can't stop playing.  Ever."  I don't know where, but it wasn't in anything I wrote.

I never said anything about scheduling play time either.  Apparently you don't understand the difference between not quitting a match until it's over (15-30 minutes average) and playing for hours on end.  And again, like I've said numerous times, if a 15-30 min block is too much to ask from you, don't play, because you seem to be trying to tell me that you just can't play a game for 15-30 minutes without quitting out.  It seems to be too much for you.

Also, you think it won't work when it works for LoL with boundless success_  Really_  I can get a game there and 9/10 times, people won't drop.  People value and appreciate teamwork there.  So you really don't have a very good argument because your argument is basically "Well it works so well there, there's no reason we should try it and see if it works well here.  We'll just continue letting people to drop out whenever they feel like it."  

And lastly, playing with a clan would only alleviate the issue on my side.  The pub scrubs on the other side would still all quit the moment they saw a missile head their way or a point get capped.  And there, alone, would be the one guy left on their side who actually came to play the game and not keep quitting until he gets tossed into a match where he's ahead.

Edited by NoJustice, January 14 2013 - 10:20 PM.

[Ryuronin]

IDReaper, on January 14 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

NoJustice, on January 14 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Never said I wanted it to be Pro. I just want people to not leave your team in a 2 v 5 or 3 v 5 situation because "I want a sandwich."  This isn't a soccer pick up.  These are people trying to earn points, exp, and practical experience which is severely hampered when you run off because you "Want a sandwich.".  Do you understand that the slot on your team may not be filled_  Do you understand that that 4 v 5 situation you leave your team with might become a 2 v 5_  Also, keep in mind probably at least 50% of people who quit do not have legitimate reasons.  They are just rage quitting. This wouldn't be so bad if this didn't happen in 3/5 games I take part in. "Enemy team has all three missile silos_  fuzzy bunny.  *checks scoreboard*  Well, I'm the only one left on my team.  Great." So now my options are to A) Try and find another game and hope it doesn't happen again or B ) stick it out, get destroyed due to numerically superior forces and get much less of a reward had everyone else just stayed and played the game.  Thank you for wasting my time.

And anyone who DOES join my team in that situation, they don't stick around.  Why should they have to fight their way out of a situation they didn't create or that might be difficult_  So Hawken's player base leaves when they do poorly, justify it, then believe they should have no penalty for leaving their teammate's ass in the breeze.  Nice.

Well you see I used the soccer example because you compared it to sports. I understand you completely, it's frustrating to get left on a team of 2 v 5. But this is still a game not matter what you may be earning towards it. Nobody needs to be subject to an obligation to play. As I said if you want a strong team based environment with stable and fair matches I suggest joining a clan and avoiding pubs. As I said before invoking a timed ban penalty on pub games where presumably people are playing casually or for fun is wrong. It is not as serious as you are making it out to be.

BUT continuing to argue you point now does not make too much sense because it isn't the solution, fixing matchmaking, adding in the missing server browser and community coordination is the solution. I stopped playing in clans a long time ago because I can't afford the luxury of scheduling playtime. There needs to be a place for me and everyone else who plays casually, and a place for people like you who take things more serious. We don't need to alienate a fairly large demographic of the player base here.

Just trying to put things in perspective, there is a reasonable way to solve your issue, I don't think your way is how it should be done. Honestly though I mean this with the best intentions, give a clan here a try. Hit one up in the sub-forums. I really do think this will make for a better experience for you.

+1 everybody happy

[Xuande]

Your system is too harsh and your wording sounds so very condescending, that it makes me almost unsympathetic to your cause. Lost Saga has much better penalty system in play. It's simple really. If you quit a game early, you pay a early quit fine. In LS it's 500 in-game currency. Three to four hundred sounds reasonable in this game. The system is flexible as well. You have a small window to exit when the game begins. I believe it was 30 seconds. After that, pay the fine.

[NoJustice]

Xuande, on January 15 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Your system is too harsh and your wording sounds so very condescending, that it makes me almost unsympathetic to your cause. Lost Saga has much better penalty system in play. It's simple really. If you quit a game early, you pay a early quit fine. In LS it's 500 in-game currency. Three to four hundred sounds reasonable in this game. The system is flexible as well. You have a small window to exit when the game begins. I believe it was 30 seconds. After that, pay the fine.

That sounds pretty reasonable, but what if they no longer have credits to take_  What then_  Where do you go from there_  That's the point I was trying to make when they suggested HC penalties earlier, which devolved to them saying "Well at 0 HC you just can't quit." Which basically means you can buy yourself out of punishment, making matches imbalanced for everyone else without HC, causing everyone else to lose exp and hc as long as you have the money to buy yourself out of trouble and continually quit.

Also, nothing condescending was directed at you, so why you would take offense, I have no idea.  And if I came off as condescending to earlier posters, I appologize.  I meant to come off as irate that they would defend people who routinely ragequit.  I'm all for having warnings first.  Then moving on to HC penalties.  And if that doesn't get the message through their head, ban em for a day.  And if they KEEP doing it, ban them longer.  Other people's game should not have to suffer.

Edited by NoJustice, January 15 2013 - 12:58 AM.

[Coldbound]

I suggested this already but here I go again. Quitters should play against other quitters. If you exit games enough times, you are put in a pool with other quitters to play with. There could be a problem though because the playerbase is so small

[robotico]

Something must be done

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

NoJustice, on January 14 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

There are already posts about those.  Also, if a person isn't having fun doesn't mean you just leave.  It's 15-30 minutes.  Stick it out.

To Hell with that.
I get it often enough that i walk into matches that are almost done and i'm on the losing side (think 5 minutes left, or less my team on 12 kills, the other one over 30-40)
With your 'solution' that means i either stay and endure the loss, or i risk getting banned.
And that SIMPLY ISN'T FAIR TO ME.
End of story.

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, January 15 2013 - 04:17 AM.

[Subdivision]

NoJustice, on January 14 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Subdivision, on January 14 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

...

Please read the beginning post.  I addressed this.  This is exactly why you don't get hammered for one or two infractions and are also able to switch between matches.  Maybe adding separate tallies for each game mode would help as well.  Also, it wouldn't be as bad as you fear.  LoL has a similar system and their matches last twice as long.  And every once in a while yes, someone has to leave, but what the system does is prevent people from just up and leaving because "Oh, my team isn't winning" or "I'm getting stomped, better bail." and leaving your team at a disadvantage.

I did and my reasoning for not wanting such a penalty system is all reasons you swiped away under the carpet. Those circumstances are always going to happen. Asking people to completely arrange their lives and time around accommodating time to play Hawken just isn't good for the game in my opinion. Plus 'get your internet fixed' is no way to help the situation. That can often be and is largely something out of most people's control. The majority of the time as I said this isn't going to happen and there is a minimal amount of people intentionally doing this to spoil a game. In the instances a game is being dominated by one side, people shouldn't be discouraged from leaving to find a more entertaining game. I feel they should be allowed to leave without penalty so they can go have fun and enjoy the game. If matchmaking is working correctly (pure speculation it will improve!) it shouldn't take too long for people to find a suitable game. Repeat offenders could be reported in some manner but once they've left your game there isn't much point in fretting about them any more. I'm sorry but I honestly don't see this as a viable solution.

Edited by Subdivision, January 15 2013 - 06:38 AM.

[Mech__Warrior]

NoJustice, on January 14 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Zeshi, on January 14 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

I'm in favor of the idea in general, but 3 days is just insane lol.

Well right, it was just an example.  : 3

Well, the punishment has to act as a deterrent, rather than a tiny slap on the wrist.  I don't think 3 is bad at all.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Mech__Warrior, on January 15 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Well, the punishment has to act as a deterrent, rather than a tiny slap on the wrist.  I don't think 3 is bad at all.

And then a majority of the playerbase decides to call it quits, and Hawken dies.
Yeah, seems like a grand idea to me

[Xuande]

NoJustice, on January 15 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

Xuande, on January 15 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Your system is too harsh and your wording sounds so very condescending, that it makes me almost unsympathetic to your cause. Lost Saga has much better penalty system in play. It's simple really. If you quit a game early, you pay a early quit fine. In LS it's 500 in-game currency. Three to four hundred sounds reasonable in this game. The system is flexible as well. You have a small window to exit when the game begins. I believe it was 30 seconds. After that, pay the fine.

That sounds pretty reasonable, but what if they no longer have credits to take_  What then_  Where do you go from there_  That's the point I was trying to make when they suggested HC penalties earlier, which devolved to them saying "Well at 0 HC you just can't quit." Which basically means you can buy yourself out of punishment, making matches imbalanced for everyone else without HC, causing everyone else to lose exp and hc as long as you have the money to buy yourself out of trouble and continually quit.

Also, nothing condescending was directed at you, so why you would take offense, I have no idea.  And if I came off as condescending to earlier posters, I appologize.  I meant to come off as irate that they would defend people who routinely ragequit.  I'm all for having warnings first.  Then moving on to HC penalties.  And if that doesn't get the message through their head, ban em for a day.  And if they KEEP doing it, ban them longer.  Other people's game should not have to suffer.

You sure do come up with a lot of "what if" scenarios. I've seen the system in play for two years now. It works. Is it going to stop everyone from quitting_ No. The duty of the system is to act as a deterrent not a "catch them all." No system will and banning is just going to piss them off. Those quitters have money, and you don't want to piss off people with money they can give you. Anywho, if they don't have enough credits, then simply leave them alone. They won't make it anywhere by excessively quitting and no HC. Most people aren't going to quit just to simply frak up your game. Those who do are in the minority and will mostly likely lose interest in the game simply because they really aren't getting anywhere.

Oh yeah, also in Lost Saga you payed a fine for going AFK, also the lobby leader had the option of autokicking people with too high of a ping. Two things that also need to be added into Hawken.

Edited by Xuande, January 15 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Votekick = abuse, especially in this sort of game.
Going AFK = kick after 3 minutes in any case, all they need to do is lower that to 1.5 minutes at most.

[Juodvarnis]

So people who crash often get penalized_

[String]

The quitting problem is endemic of a deeper issue with the game. New players come into the system and get absolutely destroyed against teams stacked with experienced players.

[Saint_The_Judge]

I don't blame those poor guys who are so motivated to play and due to zero balance + natural lack of skills quit after being slaughtered mercilessly without being able to even breath between deaths.
AFTER they fix this serious balance problem, ok, I agree with a penalty for quitting. The thing with the balance should be done in a way so "tight" that an experienced player with a new mech couldn't join a legit newcomers room.
Idk how many times I switched teams to try to even things, due to new players massive evasion.

[Mech__Warrior]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 15 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on January 15 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Well, the punishment has to act as a deterrent, rather than a tiny slap on the wrist.  I don't think 3 is bad at all.

And then a majority of the playerbase decides to call it quits, and Hawken dies.
Yeah, seems like a grand idea to me

That's only an assumption of yours, without data to back it up.
Perhaps it'll teach those 'tards to not quit so much.

[Maikeru]

What about just putting a timer after a player leaves a match early, like 15 minutes, until the player can join a new game. The wait time would get higher and higher each quit and resets every day. People don't have time to sit around and wait, so this gives more incentive to play a match unless they actually have a really good reason to leave.

Edited by Maikeru, January 18 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Mech__Warrior, on January 18 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 15 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on January 15 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Well, the punishment has to act as a deterrent, rather than a tiny slap on the wrist.  I don't think 3 is bad at all.

And then a majority of the playerbase decides to call it quits, and Hawken dies.
Yeah, seems like a grand idea to me

That's only an assumption of yours, without data to back it up.
Perhaps it'll teach those 'tards to not quit so much.

Since you dind't provide any data either, i dind't feel the need to start a poll, so yeah...
And you're ignoring situations like the one i outlined above.
Whatever solution comes up has be somewhat fair to everyone, and the suggested fix simply ISN'T .

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Maikeru, on January 18 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

What about just putting a timer after a player leaves a match early, like 15 minutes, until the player can join a new game. The wait time would get higher and higher each quit and resets every day. People don't have time to sit around and wait, so this gives more incentive to play a match unless they actually have a really good reason to leave.

Except the current generation of kiddies then goes 'What, 15 minutes _ Imma play COD instead ! Fo Shizzle Herp Derp !' (or something to that extent).
And as much as i prefer mature players...
Without the kiddies, Hawken simply doesn't have a big enoug playerbase to survive in the long run.

[Xuande]

I don't think it's fair to call someone "kiddy" because they don't want to sit there for 15 minutes. I know I sure don't. A HC fine is much more sensible and a lot less damaging to player experience overall.