74 replies to this topic

[Taerkasten]

Hmmm, melee weapons, c'mon, we know than the game dont need a coditization process or blackops process for something of melee weapons, I was thinking more akin to Ut99 like Assault mode, if is a horde mode like gow theres no problem, just personal opinion am tired of games handles zombies mechanics or modes than is bases on Zombies.

Edited by Taerkasten, January 22 2013 - 08:53 PM.

[superbank]

Beemann, on January 22 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Because it's much easier to close in than it is to escape in Hawken. It's actually worse if it's spike damage, as you remove the need for predictive movement in CQC (because dodge cooldowns)
If you ask me, the Flak Cannon on the scout is already problematic, for the same reasons

Also what would the primary be_ The Flak and TOW combo has a bit of a range trade-off in terms of not wanting to eat your own rockets, but there aren't that many explosive primaries to provide the same dilemna (and they don't do as much damage)

So what if it was a weapon that does more damage the longer it's in use_ Like a buzzsaw weapon. You start it up and at first doesn't do too much damage but the longer it spins the faster it goes dealing more DPS. Not saying I approve but this should be the opposite of first strike damage.

[Ollie]

Garpike.

[Dread_nought]

I was thinking something along the lines of Timesplitter's 2 (or was it 3/Future Perfect_) Dispersion Cannon would be a great melee weapon with a very telltale audio effect.

Too see what it's like just search for Timesplitters Dispersion Gun on Youtube.

Honestly melee should only be an option on a select few B and almost all C-class mechs if it does get added in. A Pile Bunker on a vulcan Brawler would be interesting

[erathic]

Yes there is many possibilities for balanced "melee" weapons or items,
and Hawken features many options to tweak theme right, such as :

• Cooldown
  
• Heat generation
  
• Projectile speed
  
• etc..

theses have to be dodgable the same as any high dmg/weapons

example :

Deffensive item :Magnetic Hook.
Range same as an-uncooked HE charge / dmg:very low, cool-down 5sec overheat over 3 continuous uses.
ability : -if hit- it pulls the target closer from half the range, dodges are not cancelled, but the firing player with be always aligned with it's target: duration 1.5 sec. / it's a bit slower than a TOW

Offensive item : Wall buster.
Twice the range of MH (above) half damage as a HE charge on-hit cool-down 10sec, heat generation, medium
ability : Push the hitted enemy, if it hit a wall the damage is x2. Speed : slower than the MH.


theses two can be very fun to play  for people who would like to and has little to none effect on the "regular" gameplay mechanics besides make it smarter/diversified.

Edited by erathic, January 23 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[Guiotine]

erathic, on January 23 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

the firing player with be always aligned with it's target

This sounds just like an aimbot to me, idk maybe I just read it wrong.

[erathic]

hmm you are right in a way that this feature its bassically an aiming assisting system but with huge counterparts such as :

short duration (1.5 sec or lower) it would help to "secure" one -decisive- shot
heavy heat generation and very low firerate (to avoid any spamming)
easy to dodge projectile at least for skilled players
and of course close-quarter only range

It will require as much skill as handling Hellfire-locks but ported to close range fights.
seems a fair/viable no _

Edited by erathic, January 23 2013 - 02:01 AM.

[Guiotine]

erathic, on January 23 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

short duration (1.5 sec or lower) it would help to "secure" one -decisive- shot

While I agree that normally the penalties would be good, this point right here breaks the item for me. 1.5 seconds is plenty of time for, as you say, a decisive shot, and that could be near game breaking depending solely on the weapon and circumstances. At the right range, this could guarantee all EOC pucks hit, or for someone to eat every vulcan bullet at close quarters, or take a perfect flak or two. Skilled players might be able to do this normally, but having perfect aim for 1.5 seconds certainly couldn't hurt. Despite this one thing, it would certainly be an interesting item for classes with the flak.

[Decoy101x]

melee will break the feel and style that the game has.

not every game is call of duty. keep it that way please

[erathic]

Guiotine, on January 23 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

erathic, on January 23 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

short duration (1.5 sec or lower) it would help to "secure" one -decisive- shot

While I agree that normally the penalties would be good, this point right here breaks the item for me. 1.5 seconds is plenty of time for, as you say, a decisive shot, and that could be near game breaking depending solely on the weapon and circumstances. At the right range, this could guarantee all EOC pucks hit, or for someone to eat every vulcan bullet at close quarters, or take a perfect flak or two. Skilled players might be able to do this normally, but having perfect aim for 1.5 seconds certainly couldn't hurt. Despite this one thing, it would certainly be an interesting item for classes with the flak.

I don't understand then how it could be OP/game breaking, as the hellfire already tracking targets over long distance and even over walls, This would be only a -close range -only- version of it.

Decoy101x, on January 23 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

melee will break the feel and style that the game has.
not every game is call of duty. keep it that way please

Sorry but I don't see how this look in any way close to a Call of duty gameplay (i've neved played it tough)
i suppose melee in COD are insta-kill or backstabs things_ For sure i don't want that in Hawken for the same flaming reasons explained before many times.

[erathic]

Decoy101x, on January 23 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

melee will break the feel and style that the game has.

It will be the exact same gameplay as when you fight a Flak user by close range, you dodge/time your shots/use covers/etc..
nothing much new.

[Kai_Kitamura]

Taerkasten, on January 22 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Hmmm, melee weapons, c'mon, we know than the game dont need a coditization process or blackops process for something of melee weapons, I was thinking more akin to Ut99

Funny you should say that

Spoiler

I know, I know

Edited by Kai_Kitamura, January 23 2013 - 04:37 AM.

[TwiceDead]

Quote

Yes, I’d say we’re exploring the possibility of melee weapons, but in a controlled way that fits into the Hawken universe. We wouldn’t want to see every mech running around punching or swinging swords at each other, or have a long-range sniper class staying in close to melee. I’d like to see specialized mech classes or balanced weapons that incorporate melee, but at the cost of ranged attacks or something along those lines.

Yes please! Most interesting thing I have read so far.

Funny how every time this got brought up in the suggestions, the community is like NO fuzzy bunny WAY IT WONT HAPPEN EVER it won't happen in a million years since it has been discussed since alpha yada-yada-yada as if it was fact. Well! Turns out the devs has a different idea on the subject!

Turns out you guys were WRONG... :]

Still not to late to stop it if you cry loud enough though. I for one would like to see it. We already got mech stomping, melee is next. . . COULD be next, not going to state facts.

Argument:

Quote

melee will break the feel and style that the game has.

not every game is call of duty. keep it that way please

Saying that no games should have melee because Call of Duty has it is the dumbest argument in the entire fuzzy bunny universe. It's like the argument about mounts going on in the Guild Wars 2 forums, the game shouldn't have mounts because people will miss out on the great landscapes and "THIS IS NOT WOW". This is basically the same fuzzy bunny argument. It's not a REASON people, just because CoD has melee doesn't mean no other game should have it. Oh look CoD has weapons too that shoot folks, guess Hawken shouldn't have weapons either. Oh wait CoD even got missile launchers! We can't have ToW's or hellfires now... Oh there have been a million mech games in the past, guess Hawken can't be a mech game. Better make it a pogo-stick game with weapons attached to it!

Dumb argument. Move along.



This is not the end of the world people. They said they would add the melee function in a way that made sense to the Hawken universe. In the end the course of the game is controlled by the devs, and it's their vision that is our playground. We are not here to control the course.

Edited by TwiceDead, January 23 2013 - 05:49 AM.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

TwiceDead, on January 23 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Better make it a pogo-stick game with weapons attached to it!

I think I'd like to play that game!

[Taerkasten]

Kai_Kitamura, on January 23 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Taerkasten, on January 22 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Hmmm, melee weapons, c'mon, we know than the game dont need a coditization process or blackops process for something of melee weapons, I was thinking more akin to Ut99

Funny you should say that

Spoiler

I know, I know

¿and why did you miss the assault mode text in my previous comment_ the hammer is the less used weapon in  ut99, i was pointin than the assault mode like ut99 will be great.

Edited by Taerkasten, January 23 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[KyRoS]

Decoy101x, on January 23 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

melee will break the feel and style that the game has.

not every game is call of duty. keep it that way please

Yea, we really don't need some gap closer pneumatic hammer of death. COD games with their tactical knives are just about the most annoying thing going in any FPS game I've ever played.

[Noin]

[HWK]Deuy, on January 22 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Care to elaborate what you don't like about the idea_  What I was picturing is basically a secondary weapon that has the properties of an extremely close range "melee" instrument, like a spike or pneumatic hammer.  It wouldn't be terribly different from just having a flak cannon that's more effective at a much shorter range but basically has no damage potential at any other distance.  Seems like a reasonable trade-off to me, and it's a far cry from laser swords or roundhouse kicks (also in development > ).

I can see how something like this could work. It would need to be very CQC focused.  It is currently a tactic I use to get right on top of some mechs in some situations.  It would need to have an extremely limited range.  I wonder if it would not be better as an offensive item type thing that recharges.  The only reason I say that is because I envision a limited range that is clearly less than a dodge distance, maybe half of a dodge distance.

We already have people complaining about the very specialized mechs being not good at x or y.  Giving a secondary like this would limit a mech to being only extremely CQC viable and would need to come out of the garage only situationally.  We have that today where the hellfires (bruiser and rocketeer) are most effective on the Sahara map and if you are playing Missile Assault or Siege you likely are keeping it in the garage when the Origin map comes up unless your team is really working together well and you now how to play your support role.  

I hear everyone thinking they should be able to be the top rank on the scoreboard no matter what mech they choose, and this is just not true.  You can however help your team with each and every mech if you know what role to play.  In this vein at some point you should evaluate how to reward team players a bit more xp wise as they are currently gimped to a slower progression as compared to the assassin mechs(A class)

I know everyone hates the stun lock, but I am thinking that something like this could 'push' a mech, not lock them at all, but affecting their movement in the direction I am aiming.  If I could push, giving them a sudden acceleration in a certain direction, I could throw off their timing, or push them off the top of origin by the AA tower, etc.  Maybe it is less about the damage and more about the push.  It would need to be well thought out if that we're the case, as it would need a complimentary weapon, maybe you are pushing them out of range of the splash damage of your other weapon that is also very CQC focused and very burst damage based.

[erathic]

I start to think that you not read or understand what i was saying .....
it's like whenever the term "melee" is used, peoples get blind and brag about COD lol

m e l e e   d o n ' t   n e c c e s s a r y   m e a n   C O D  

i t  w i l l   b e  f i n e , d o n ' t  w o r r y

Edited by erathic, January 23 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Decoy101x]

TwiceDead, on January 23 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Quote

Yes, I’d say we’re exploring the possibility of melee weapons, but in a controlled way that fits into the Hawken universe. We wouldn’t want to see every mech running around punching or swinging swords at each other, or have a long-range sniper class staying in close to melee. I’d like to see specialized mech classes or balanced weapons that incorporate melee, but at the cost of ranged attacks or something along those lines.

Yes please! Most interesting thing I have read so far.

Funny how every time this got brought up in the suggestions, the community is like NO fuzzy bunny WAY IT WONT HAPPEN EVER it won't happen in a million years since it has been discussed since alpha yada-yada-yada as if it was fact. Well! Turns out the devs has a different idea on the subject!

Turns out you guys were WRONG... :]

Still not to late to stop it if you cry loud enough though. I for one would like to see it. We already got mech stomping, melee is next. . . COULD be next, not going to state facts.

Argument:

Quote

melee will break the feel and style that the game has.

not every game is call of duty. keep it that way please

Saying that no games should have melee because Call of Duty has it is the dumbest argument in the entire fuzzy bunny universe. It's like the argument about mounts going on in the Guild Wars 2 forums, the game shouldn't have mounts because people will miss out on the great landscapes and "THIS IS NOT WOW". This is basically the same fuzzy bunny argument. It's not a REASON people, just because CoD has melee doesn't mean no other game should have it. Oh look CoD has weapons too that shoot folks, guess Hawken shouldn't have weapons either. Oh wait CoD even got missile launchers! We can't have ToW's or hellfires now... Oh there have been a million mech games in the past, guess Hawken can't be a mech game. Better make it a pogo-stick game with weapons attached to it!

Dumb argument. Move along.



This is not the end of the world people. They said they would add the melee function in a way that made sense to the Hawken universe. In the end the course of the game is controlled by the devs, and it's their vision that is our playground. We are not here to control the course.

Actually we are here to control it. If we don't like things they add, they don't make money.

Also i don't care if you like my argument or not. So eat me.

The game doesn't need melee. It's fine as is. The last thing we need is a bunch of herps and derps running around spamming melee.

[Kai_Kitamura]

Quote

The last thing we need is a bunch of herps and derps running around spamming melee.

Nobody hasn't even seen it yet and you already know how it will be spammable, and how its users will be herps and derps. That's a major strawman on your part. And announcing your not caring won't save you from critique.

Edited by Kai_Kitamura, January 23 2013 - 07:11 AM.