89 replies to this topic

[SuicideNeil]

I'll quote from my other post:

"The Tech needs to be removed or heavily nerfed- add rapid heat generation on the Repair Torch so that it is brought in line with other very powerful weapons ( it is still a weapon regardless of how you spin it ). The lock on feature is also a serious issue as it is nearly impossible to fight in close quarters and escape the dismantling beam ( or death ray... )- just pointing at someone and firing while maintaining a constant lock is far too easy and removes any skill from achieving a kill, even more so than having to obtain a proper lock like with Hellfires by pressing and holding the weapon utility button, then the separate fire button."

At present, you have a mech that can heal far too rapidly, doesn't generate any or little heat as it's doing so, heals itself as it heals others, and has a lock-on weapon that doesn't even require any skill or practice to lock onto a target- just point and fire, and it will suck the life out of an enemy player so long as you stay in close ( can't even run away as A-class mechs are too fast / equally as fast as everything else all bar a Raider that is Blitzing ).

How to fix this awful mess of a mech:

1. Rapid heat generation on the Repair torch; it is a weapon, and should generate heat like any other very powerful weapon. Doesn't matter if it is in heal or offensive mode.

2. Remove self healing feature totally- we already have the C button / Repair drone & Repair charge- this will make players using the Tech think about how they position themselves & when it's time to retreat as they heal someone else in battle, at present they don't have to worry too much as they constantly heal so long as they are healing another person... who is already at 100% health.

3. Techs can currently 'heal' someone who is at 100% health, and as a result they also self heal which negates the need to stop and use the Repair drone ( something that every other mech pilot has to think about as it exposes them to danger while they are healing)- this is clearly an error or serious oversight.

These three simple changes will bring the Tech back in line with every other mech and prevent matches turning into impossible to win fights with one team over powering the other simply due to having more Techs in play.

[HugeGuts]

Simply change it from a healing specialist to a debuff specialist by improving the Redox and Deconstructor, and make the Repair Torch only available through Amplification.

[KaszaWspraju]

1. Rapid heat generation on the Repair torch - ok. slightly increase
2. Remove self healing feature totally - no, maybe slightly reduce.
3. Techs can currently 'heal' someone who is at 100% health, and as a result they also self heal which negates the need to stop and use the Repair drone - yes, Technician should not gained anything when he cure mech up to 100% HP.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, April 21 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[tman7919]

KaszaWspraju, on April 21 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

1. Rapid heat generation on the Repair torch - ok. slightly increase
2. Remove self healing feature totally - no, maybe slightly reduce.
3. Techs can currently 'heal' someone who is at 100% health, and as a result they also self heal which negates the need to stop and use the Repair drone - yes, Technician should not gained anything when he cure mech up to 100% HP.

Dangit you beat me to it. What he said.

[Azkur]

i played a game with you and the only thing you did was complain about the techs and get killed by trying to kill the person he was healing rather than the tech it self

[Deadmen_Tim]

HugeGuts, on April 21 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Simply change it from a healing specialist to a debuff specialist by improving the Redox and Deconstructor, and make the Repair Torch only available through Amplification.

One of the elegant solutions for broken stuff. Make it real technician.

[dEd101]

tman7919, on April 21 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

KaszaWspraju, on April 21 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

1. Rapid heat generation on the Repair torch - ok. slightly increase
2. Remove self healing feature totally - no, maybe slightly reduce.
3. Techs can currently 'heal' someone who is at 100% health, and as a result they also self heal which negates the need to stop and use the Repair drone - yes, Technician should not gained anything when he cure mech up to 100% HP.

Dangit you beat me to it. What he said.

^this

An alternative is to only have self heal on deconstruction mode (simply because vamping someone to death is so much fun). At the moment I'll wade into battle without a care in the world knowing that if I keep the guy I'm healing between me and the enemy I'll be able to heal up the damage of any stray shots that might hit me. You should be able to chase techs away be landing tows next to their hiding spots so they need to disengage and heal up.

[xXHadronCutterXx]

I don't understand why it should heal itself in the first place, its job is to heal others.

[AUTOAL]

KaszaWspraju, on April 21 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

1. Rapid heat generation on the Repair torch - ok. slightly increase
2. Remove self healing feature totally - no, maybe slightly reduce.
3. Techs can currently 'heal' someone who is at 100% health, and as a result they also self heal which negates the need to stop and use the Repair drone - yes, Technician should not gained anything when he cure mech up to 100% HP.

I think the damage or healing ability of tech is fine. but the way tech gain xp is crazy. it feels like i risk my life to hunt down an enemy and just because there is a tech behind me and heal me few hp then he can gain almost the same score as mine_
i always think tech is sucking others xp.

sometimes i think a tech who spent the entire time follow me and gain more xp than me, this tech is not a tech, it is a PARASITE

[Modius]

AUTOAL, on April 22 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

KaszaWspraju, on April 21 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

1. Rapid heat generation on the Repair torch - ok. slightly increase
2. Remove self healing feature totally - no, maybe slightly reduce.
3. Techs can currently 'heal' someone who is at 100% health, and as a result they also self heal which negates the need to stop and use the Repair drone - yes, Technician should not gained anything when he cure mech up to 100% HP.

I think the damage or healing ability of tech is fine. but the way tech gain xp is crazy. it feels like i risk my life to hunt down an enemy and just because there is a tech behind me and heal me few hp then he can gain almost the same score as mine_
i always think tech is sucking others xp.

sometimes i think a tech who spent the entire time follow me and gain more xp than me, this tech is not a tech, it is a PARASITE

I think they went at the "non-offensive medic mech getting same XP gains as any other" notion with a semtex covered brick. I agree that it gains too much XP, but that's not an issue really since XP transfer is not a feature. Gaining a hell of a lot of HCredits to use on other mechs is either a problem/great outcome though. I'm undecided. When veteran players work so hard, paraphrasing AUTOAL for a moment here, I feel a Technician gaining a lot more XP is unfair. I'm sure a lot of people can agree here, but those who disagree are probably fans of the Technician.

[Xman]

Negating self repair completely would result of a useless mech, Tech get splashed all the time during the heat the of the battle. And this self repair is what keeps him up, otherwise he won't be repairing other mech for more than 5 sec during the battle.
Reduction in the self heal is reasonable in order to let the Tech rely on other method of repairing when he get a severe damage, utilizing Repair Orbs from the victims his friend killed during the battle. That is a skill a Tech must learn in my opinion, current self heal isn't helping people to learn that as a Tech. Or use Repair Charge from defensive items, his own or his friend (TF2 Sandvish style).
Self heal from healing a 100% targets should be reduced greatly but not removed completely.

Tech shouldn't repair other Tech and that is completely wrong. In ideal game you shouldn't have more than 1 Tech, so having a multiple Tech isn't so common. First week of the release is an exception, everyone is excited about the mech, so that should level down during next week or so, along with this insane exp gain that the Tech is getting, everyone would be 25.

Edited by Xman, April 22 2013 - 03:59 AM.

[Frouste]

I am of the mind that the tech is pretty good at the moment, but I do see and hear glaring issues in its design.

If, and I stress if, I were to modify it, here is what I'd change (no stats, but a general idea) on the Helix...

Deconstruction mode
   - Repair is weaker when the target is not in a repair state; healing targets mid-combat is still viable, but tagging out is no longer required as often as it has been before.

Deconstruction mode (notes)
   - I have had more trouble tearing opponents apart with this in 1v1 fights, and the range feels (in my brief experience with it) terribly short and doesn't stick very well.  I don't have a firm grasp on this side of the Helix, I am therefore not qualified to suggest changes on this as I have done before.

Edited by Frouste, April 22 2013 - 04:07 AM.

[Dinre]

Yeah, the xp gain is crazy high.  My second game with a technician netted me 11k+ xp.  Granted, some of that is because my little MG turret was adding to the assist numbers, but it still felt a little ridiculous.  Perhaps they could take a cue from TF2 and halve the assist score for healers.  Or perhaps they are just being a little too liberal in awarding assists.

I like the self-heal aspect of the technician, because this keeps the healer focused on healing others rather than healing self.  It's a good mechanic for encouraging good healers.

However, self-heal from non-healing_  That does seem cheap.  I had a teammate drop a radar jammer in the back of the AA and would "heal" it whenever I needed health.  It started to feel cheap, because I was never in repair-mode when people popped around the corner for a duel.

Regarding the heat generation, I think it's fine.  I was playing pretty aggressively, so I was overheating quite a lot at first.  When you have multiple people to heal in a brawl and are firing your weapon to help, the heat gen starts to hit fast.

[SuicideNeil]

[quote name='Azkur' timestamp='1366596978' post='258230']
i played a game with you and the only thing you did was complain about the techs and get killed by trying to kill the person he was healing rather than the tech it self
[/quote]

Yes, because if you kill the person who actually has the guns that are shooting you, the Tech usually runs away or is then easily dealt with. if you concentrate on the tech you end up dead because it is constantly self healing + the person they are healing it also shooting you.

I also had very little back up most of the time as there was only one Tech on our team.

[quote name='Dinre]Regarding the heat generation' date=' I think it's fine. I was playing pretty aggressively, so I was overheating quite a lot at first. When you have multiple people to heal in a brawl and are firing your weapon to help, the heat gen starts to hit fast.[/quote']

True, but when the Tech isn't firing it's offensive weapon ( purple sh*t or Ripper ) there is little to no heat penelty- every other weapon & mech will overheat trying to kill a Tech & the mech it is healing, and if they retreat when they overheat, it was a wasted effort. That's the issue.

I'm glad most people agree on most of the issues I raised though- the Tech introduces a new style of game play, but currently it's just totally out of whack.

[SuicideNeil]

Xman, on April 22 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

Negating self repair completely would result of a useless mech, Tech get splashed all the time during the heat the of the battle. And this self repair is what keeps him up, otherwise he won't be repairing other mech for more than 5 sec during the battle.

I would be extremely happy if this was to actually happen really- the Tech is only an A-class for a reason- it is fast but not well armored, it should not be able to sustain heavy fire and just shrug it off. The idea of the Tech ( pay attention now... ) is that it supports other players and stays hidden, say behind or under the AA, or behind cover- it should not be able to just stand next to another mech on the front line of a fight and kepp them + itself alive by holding down the heal button. This is what is wrong with the Tech and why it needs to be fixed & quickly.

Quote

Reduction in the self heal is reasonable in order to let the Tech rely on other method of repairing when he get a severe damage, utilizing Repair Orbs from the victims his friend killed during the battle. That is a skill a Tech must learn in my opinion, current self heal isn't helping people to learn that as a Tech. Or use Repair Charge from defensive items, his own or his friend (TF2 Sandvish style).
Self heal from healing a 100% targets should be reduced greatly but not removed completely.

Self healing simply shouldn't happen at all- the Helix torch is a weapon you fire at other mechs- it should not be able to fire at itself nor magically transfer health points to itself- there is no mechanism for that ( unless the Dev team would like to spin some bullsh*t line and make something up to justify that feature ). You heal yourself by doing what you said- using the repair drone, using health orbs dropped by dead mechs or the repair charge. That way it makes pilots think more about how they play and reintroduces danger to the healing process.

Quote

Tech shouldn't repair other Tech and that is completely wrong. In ideal game you shouldn't have more than 1 Tech, so having a multiple Tech isn't so common. First week of the release is an exception, everyone is excited about the mech, so that should level down during next week or so, along with this insane exp gain that the Tech is getting, everyone would be 25.

I don't see an issue with Techs healing other Techs- a mech is a mech no matter what class- it's self healing and the lack of heat generation which is the issue- it should not be an endless or unlimited 'ability' with no penalty.

[SuicideNeil]

AUTOAL, on April 22 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

I think the damage or healing ability of tech is fine. but the way tech gain xp is crazy. it feels like i risk my life to hunt down an enemy and just because there is a tech behind me and heal me few hp then he can gain almost the same score as mine_
i always think tech is sucking others xp.

sometimes i think a tech who spent the entire time follow me and gain more xp than me, this tech is not a tech, it is a PARASITE

What he said. I've seen Techs with only one kill get 30-40 assists and nearly double the XP of the player on their team with the most kills.  That is just absurd- XP points should only be awarded to the Tech based on how many health points it has transfered back to an injured player, and how many health points it takes away by hitting another player ( with either the offensive weapon or the helix torch in offensive mode ).

Awarding XP simply because the Tech healed someone who then killed someone else means the Tech gets vastly more XP than it has actually earned through combat, as is the way it should be when you contribute to a kill directly.

[SuicideNeil]

dEd101, on April 22 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

^this

An alternative is to only have self heal on deconstruction mode (simply because vamping someone to death is so much fun). At the moment I'll wade into battle without a care in the world knowing that if I keep the guy I'm healing between me and the enemy I'll be able to heal up the damage of any stray shots that might hit me. You should be able to chase techs away be landing tows next to their hiding spots so they need to disengage and heal up.

Now that would have made so much more sense. At present it's just a case that Techs have no reason to hide as they can rapidly self heal no matter how much fire they take from a single mech of any class, and the person they are healing gives them cover = 2 nearly impossible to kill players unless you gang up on them, and it's hard to do mcuh else if you have to deploy all your forces just to deal with half the enemy team.

[Frouste]

waftycrank, on April 22 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

Frouste, on April 22 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Deconstruction mode (notes)
   - I have had more trouble tearing opponents apart with this in 1v1 fights, and the range feels (in my brief experience with it) terribly short and doesn't stick very well.

Shouldn't be sticky at all.  Not only worst kind of auto-aim.  Also worst kind of auto-aim magic beam weapon.  Detest such dumbing down of game mechanics.  Almost embarrassing.

It should really be mildly sticky IMO, as to maintain that aim is still key.
I had experienced more trouble in general with this weapon's destructive mode alone.

[AUTOAL]

SuicideNeil, on April 22 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

AUTOAL, on April 22 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

I think the damage or healing ability of tech is fine. but the way tech gain xp is crazy. it feels like i risk my life to hunt down an enemy and just because there is a tech behind me and heal me few hp then he can gain almost the same score as mine_
i always think tech is sucking others xp.

sometimes i think a tech who spent the entire time follow me and gain more xp than me, this tech is not a tech, it is a PARASITE

What he said. I've seen Techs with only one kill get 30-40 assists and nearly double the XP of the player on their team with the most kills.  That is just absurd- XP points should only be awarded to the Tech based on how many health points it has transfered back to an injured player, and how many health points it takes away by hitting another player ( with either the offensive weapon or the helix torch in offensive mode ).

Awarding XP simply because the Tech healed someone who then killed someone else means the Tech gets vastly more XP than it has actually earned through combat, as is the way it should be when you contribute to a kill directly.

the idea is good. but the formular  is wrong.
I can be a stone cold killer with or without tech. can a tech be a killer_
who is core_ who belongs to support department_

example: Napoleon win a war, then his medic gain more metals and glory than Napoleon because medic takes a bullet from Napoleon's leg.

medic need reward. but not that much