195 replies to this topic

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

@Redvan : sometimes I feel like someone ought to cluebat the shizzle out of you

[nokari]

I like all of these changes except for the Slug Rifle and Heat Cannon. Both are already strong weapons and making them faster to get off shots is going to piss off people a lot more than they already do. I think reducing heat generation is good for both, but the Heat Cannon especially doesn't need increased damage. IMO, you're making a strong weapon stronger, faster, and longer-lasting in fights MORESO than other weapons.

I'll await to see how it affects the game, but I don't have a good feeling it will be positive.

Edited by nokari, June 18 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Crabbit]

All hail the mighty HEAT cannon! My HEAT scout is one big devious smile!

I'll have to start rocking my mini flak cupcake again!

I was hoping the shield was going to be nerfed in this patch. 8(

We'll see how this patch pans out.

Thanks Devs!

[tman7919]

I was already good with Bruiser. Why did you have to make me better_

[ShadowWarg]

Don't get me wrong I'm glad we got something, but I was kind of hoping that we would get something.....bigger. Also I can see having the buffs for sustain weapons but why were burst damage weapons buffed, especially the Slug_ Buffing burst weapons by reducing their heat gen and other things kind of goes against the idea of making sustaining weapon more viable.

Edited by ShadowWarg, June 18 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[nokari]

ShadowWarg, on June 18 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong I'm glad we got something, but I was kind of hoping that we would get something.....bigger.

They said yesterday they were going to announce a balance patch, so I don't know why you'd be expecting something bigger than this.

Edited by nokari, June 18 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[karnak]

I think you had a lot of time since open beta started to gather data about instant damage weapons, I wonder why you need to test again this stuff.


Instant weapons doesn't give you the ability to respond enemy fire in a equal way, because the first one that hit the other has always the advantage.

Against of high level players you are forced to switch to instant weapons and the game turns to who sees/shoots the other first.. the game turns to who can position himself better in the map and stay in cover for more time.

This is the way of the high level uk servers..

[Zanozus]

WTF _!_! Useless update I ever seen. Snipers, reapers and scouts are everywhere. Scouts make 15-25 kills in each match. Snipers kill heavy mechs in 3-4 shots ! AND ... We have heat reduction and attack speed amplification for them. Devs, what are you smoke _
Instant damage has not any lacks. Where is NO RECOIL, NO OVERHEATING, NO LETHAL SPOTS AND VERYYYY SLOOOW BULLETS. Who the hell will be play the rockets and grenades _ A-mechs can avoid them TWICE before they land. How is it possible _
We need C-mechs HUGE update. And hitscan weapon fix.

[Disparity]

I love playing SS, but in no way did I feel the Slug rifle needed a buff. It would be nice to know the thought process that was behind this decision. Oh well, we'll see.

[tease_it]

Scapes, on June 18 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

ScHizNiK, on June 18 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Yep Slug rifle will be the only optimal choice.

We'll be keeping an eye on how these balance changes affect weapon selection, rest assured.

I'd be cautious about the buffs to the mini flak and heat cannon, too.  Those weapons are already quite notorious in the history of Hawken beta.

I like that the slug is getting a better RoF, but this might need to be compensated by toning down damage and making it less bursty.  It's already a problem with reapers playing peakaboo - it seems all they need in medium or close range is a split-second line of sight to take out a third of your health.
What do you guys think_

Sustained weapons definitely needed a heat generation buff, IMHO.  I hope this means the vulcan's making a comeback!

Also, I love how this is called the Heatsink update, though it makes the heat sink internal even less useful!

Anyways, thanks for the patch!

Let's try our best not to fly WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY off the handle immediately with what we see is wrong with this patch (e.g. "ermahgerd OP wehpuns!1!!11!").  This is a beta, so we need to be constructive in our criticism.

But yeah... the slug rifle may need a nerfing soon.

Edited by tease_it, June 18 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[Xacius]

The Slug rifle was arguably the best trace weapon before this patch.  Now it's not even going to be fair.  I'm considering not logging in until this is ramified.  

Problems:

1. Near-perfect accuracy at any range, scoped or unscoped. Next to no spread.
2. Heat generation over damage dealt ratio is superb.  A player can consecutively fire 21 slug rifle rounds before overheating.
3. Burst damage.  Instant hit to 70 health at any range.  Now it's going to happen more than once per second.  

This weapon was fine as it was.  

Edited by Xacius, June 18 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[RincH]

Leonhardt, on June 18 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Helix Repair Torch
Decreased self-repair rate by 25%.
Decreased Amplified self-repair rate by 30%.

THERE IS A GOD!

They even should reduce damage given by the torch ...

[tease_it]

Xacius, on June 18 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Near-perfect accuracy at any range, scoped or unscoped. Next to no spread.

I think adding some spread to the slug rifle would be a good idea.  It would even make the reaper's ability more useful for that weapon, as I've seen many people complain about Precision Overdrive.

Side-note:
If, as they say, they want battles to last slightly longer, then buffing burst damage probably would not lead in that direction.

Edited by tease_it, June 18 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[OdinTheWise]

tease_it, on June 18 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Xacius, on June 18 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Near-perfect accuracy at any range, scoped or unscoped. Next to no spread.

I think adding some spread to the slug rifle would be a good idea.  It would even make the reaper's ability more useful for that weapon, as I've seen many people complain about Precision Overdrive.

Side-note:
If, as they say, they want battles to last slightly longer, then buffing burst damage probably would not lead in that direction.

This is the worst idea I ever heard. It was fine before the patch

[N0stalgia]

I still firmly stand by the notion that the Sabot rifle should be a projectile weapon and not hitscan. You should have to lead targets with at least one gun on your mech.

[tease_it]

OdinTheWise, on June 18 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

This is the worst idea I ever heard. It was fine before the patch

Are you talking about the RoF increase, or my proposal for decreasing accuracy_

Edited by tease_it, June 18 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[KyRoS]

Great patch overall. Was really getting tired of overheating, especially when there was a tech or 2 out there healing. Love the Point-D Vulcan, SMG and AR upgrades. Much needed as I'd love to see sustained DPS be comparable to burst. A slight boost the SA Hawkins DPS would have been great, but maybe next patch after we see how the range increase works out. Mini Flak seemed fine, but everyone seemed to always use the flak cannon, but now maybe it will be a viable alternative to to the Flak Cannon. I really don't get the slug rifle RoF increase, as the gun is beastly as is. The heat cannon is the gun most used by the "pro" players it seems, so I don't really know why it needed a RoF increase and direct hit increase.

Look forward to trying out the changes though. I can't count the number of times I'm like one hit away from killing someone and overheating. This may help us "noobs" out some against the more advanced players that rarely miss.

Edited by KyRoS, June 18 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Pirits]

We need a overall increase in speed next, with the slug firing quicker and everything overheating less often the C classes wont stand much of a chance...

EDIT: at least that's what I'm seeing, doesn't mean it's right.

Edited by Pirits, June 18 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[xXHadronCutterXx]

I really don't want to be negative Nansy, but these are the first patch notes that I am dissapointed with, more so worried about. Here are my thoughts, and if you dissagree, fine, just don't get all offensive about it.

1) Point D - Vulcan
...what the_ The main problem with this weapon is the spread, yet they reduced heat and increased damage_ What gives_ If you just modified the heat gen. and spread values, the weapon would be fine. You made it viable in a wrong way. Sure, this may finally make Bruisers an actual threat, but think of Beserkers, they have the potential to be a nightmare now. Another + for the A team, yet again.

2) MiniFlak
Okay, this one isn't that bad, it only needed a reduction in heat gen., but why give it a damage buff_ It was fine before damage vise. Not sure if a necessary move, but alright, guess I'll have to play to see the results.

3) Slug Rifle
What the actual data redacted... This is probably the most worrying change of all. An 8% RoF buff, really_ Snipers were finally more or less fine and now you went and ruined that. Why was this needed_ I did not see ANYONE on the forums asking for this. If something isn't broken, why are you trying to fix it_ This is just gonna make snipers more annoying and turn matches into hiding at one spot because all of the open terrain is watched over by a Sharpshooter.

4) EOC Repeater
I get everything got a heat reduction, but some weapons didn't really need it. This is the primary that does more damage than most secondaries and the whole point of the skill using it was to land your shots, and now you just made that easier. Again, why fix something that isn't broken...

5) Heat Cannon
Oh my God, this is probably the worst change of all. You just made the best primary in the game live up to its name. RoF AND damage buff_ Who the hell asked for the Heat's damage to get buffed_ What gives_ And you also buffed the splash. You just effectively reintroduced Heat Scouts that are going to rain on everyone's parade untill you nerf it again in another patch. The overbuff overnerf cycle continues... Yet again, major + to the A team, especially the Scout.

6) RevGL
Yay, lol spam is back.. Though I love my Grenadier so I'm gonna let this one slip by.

7) Helix Repair Torch
Still no nerf to how much the Amplification ray heals teammates_ I salute the other changes, but this was the one thing I couldn't stand about these things. Guess I'll just have to wait for another patch...


As for the other changes, I'll have to test for myself, but they seem fine. + for giving automatic weapons some love.

Again, this was just my opinion and I hope I am wrong, but something tells me I'm not far from the truth, but we'll see when it actually hits tonight.
The devs are trying their best, and I honestly appriciate that and I dislike having to bash on these patch notes, but I see an accuring pattern, the devs keep changing unecessary values which lead to the mechanic becoming disbalanced, and in some cases broken/OP. Take the shield for example, nothing was wrong with it before the Tech patch and now it's completly broken.
Though, I still have my faith in you guys and I hope this all gets ironed out soon so please don't let us down.

Edited by xXHadronCutterXx, June 18 2013 - 10:23 AM.