119 replies to this topic

[Xionos]

Currently there is no disadvantage to charging the EOC, T32, or Heat cannon.

There should be an option where you can have them charge themselves and fire on mouse down.

The EOC  Repeater does the same DPS fully charged or uncharged. Fires more rounds the more it's charged.

The T32 Bolt does its most DPS firing it uncharged as quickly as possible. Gains more damage as charged.

The Heat Cannon does its most dps firing it uncharged as quickly as possible. Gains DPS, Speed, and more AOE as it's charged.

• Having the weapons charge themselves when you aren't firing lowers the DPS of none of these weapon.
  
• There is an insanely minute amount of heat management that can be done when you don't charge the EOC, it's mitigated due to the loss of heat while charging and being extremely situational
  
• Holding your mouse button down constantly is not good for the mouse and can make your hand cramped
  
• Would help most novice players manage these weapons better

I see no reason why we can't have an option to where these weapons charge themselves.

Edited by Xionos, August 31 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[FakeName]

I don't really understand you (It's my English sorry). I would be pelased if you could explain for me

But for the weapons. I used the HEAT and the EOC for a long time both. Don't played the T32 yet but I know how it works.

Charging the EOC: For maximum burst and concentrated damage on one point.
Not charging the EOC: For mines laying (spamming) to deny area of the enemy.

Charging the HEAT: +10 extra damage and more AoE damage. BUT ALSO FASTER PROJECTILE SPEED!
Not charging the HEAT: As you said more DPS. Good for shooting down repairing mechs or just harras enemies camping at the AA.

Charging the T32: God damn that BURST! No srsly. Good burst/Alpha strikes. Less effective in combat without something to hide.
Not charging the T32: Good DPS, mainly used for killing repairing mechs or used in close combat against Point-D Vulcans or Flaks without a place to hide.


I think the weapons all have their sense. But as I said, I don't understand your problem sorry for that (Language issues).

[AsianJoyKiller]

Oh, God not this again.

[Exeon]

If they don't fix the game not recognizing my mouse 1 being held down and that means that my gun should be charging, I support this. If they do fix this bug, this is just reducing the skill required to play the game.

[Xionos]

This is a small change that is completely optional, most high level players charge these weapons all the time when they can anyways. If they don't add some disadvantage to charging the weapons or keeping them charged, then there is no reason they can't charge themselves.

-Charging weapons yourself adds a SMALL amount of skill and flavor to the weapon, it's almost minute.

-This would be completely optional.

There is almost no disadvantage if these weapons charged themselves. I really think the skill from any weapon comes from timing and accuracy. Not the patience to keep left click held down for 10 minutes in a match. The only reason I don't think there should be the option to have these charge themselves is if there is an actual SIGNIFICANT strategic element to the weapon by not charging it.

Currently on all 3 weapons you lose DPS if you aren't charging it every time you aren't firing it, so I fail to understand why they don't charge themselves or give you the option to have them do it.

[Mech__Warrior]

I am for this.  The reason  I hated the heat cannon was I was just not used to the holding down.  It definitely does cramp the hand.  I grew to the love EOC, and finally started today to try the heat cannon.  Pretty cool.  But I would definitely be in favor of an option to have these weapons always charged, including the t-bolt.

[ReachH]

There is no disadvantage in playing more until charging is second nature.

This is completely trivial.

[ReachH]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I HAVE COMMANDEERED THIS TOPIC[/font]

This topic is now about whether guns should automatically fire when you zero in on enemies.

The skill it takes to click the mouse when your reticle goes red is minuet.

There is no disadvantage for having autofiring guns.

[SirCannonFodder]

ReachH, on September 01 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

I HAVE COMMANDEERED THIS TOPIC

This topic is now about whether guns should automatically fire when you zero in on enemies.

The skill it takes to click the mouse when your reticle goes red is minuet.

There is no disadvantage for having autofiring guns.

Firing guns: You need to have the reticule over the enemy and be able to time the clicks correctly, which requires a fair bit of skill and practice.

Charging guns: You literally just have to hold the mouse button down, and then release it when you want to fire. The only practice needed is knowing how long it takes to fully charge, which you would still need to do with an automatic charge anyway. I honestly don't see how having it be manual adds any sort of skill or depth.

[AsianJoyKiller]

SirCannonFodder, on September 01 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

I honestly don't see how having it be manual adds any sort of skill or depth.

There actually is a measure of skill involved in holding down a mouse button and actively aiming.
The pressure you put on the mouse, however slight can change how easily you aim and make corrections.
Also, as witnessed by those who complain about how holding down the mouse button for extended periods of time can be uncomfortable, it's obviously not as physically easy as the proposed option.
And are you telling me there's no skill involved in learning when to charge and when not to, both to ease physical stress and for stealth or knowing when you don't need a full charge_

Just because it's not something that takes a lot of skill doesn't mean it takes no skill.
Just because it doesn't add a lot of depth doesn't mean it adds no depth.

[Xionos]

AsianJoyKiller, on September 01 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

And are you telling me there's no skill involved in learning when to charge and when not to, both to ease physical stress and for stealth or knowing when you don't need a full charge_
Just because it's not something that takes a lot of skill doesn't mean it takes no skill.
Just because it doesn't add a lot of depth doesn't mean it adds no depth.

The problem here is that there is currently no real disadvantage to NOT charging any of the weapons. I wish that there could be some form of heat management, or that you showed up on radar more, or anything, but its not the case. If there isn't going to be a reason to NOT charge the weapons, let players choose whether or not they charge themselves.

The amount of skill it adds is completely trivial compared to the amount of skill timing and aiming takes.

There should never be any skill in relieving physical cramping of the hand... that's called bad design and should never be intended.

The biggest loss here is none of the above but rather the FLAVOR or the FEEL of using the weapon, it probably won't feel like a CHARGE weapon if we don't feel like we are actively charging it.

That being said there is no reason to have weapons that have different functions when charged when there is no advantage to leave them uncharged.

I used to play a game called Megaman Battle Network for gameboy advance. For six installments of the series you had to charge your megabuster by holding the B button. I never thought anything of it. When they made it's awful reincarnation on the DS, they realized there was no disadvantage to keeping your Megabuster charged all the time, all of the Pros did it. They decided that it would be best if the Megabuster charged itself constantly, and you pressed B to release it. You could still rapid fire weakshots by tapping B, but if you weren't tapping B it was charging towards full charge.

Yeah sure there is some skill to charging your gun manually, probably 20% of the population doesn't charge their gun properly, maybe more. But to everyone who realizes, "Why the hell would I ever leave my gun uncharged 99% of the time_" it's just annoying to hold left click all the time and it can lead to hand cramping.

Edited by Xionos, September 01 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Choosing to ignore the disadvantages and advantages is not the same as them not existing.

Physical discomfort from improper use is not a design flaw. It's a human error.

[Glacius]

AsianJoyKiller, on September 01 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

SirCannonFodder, on September 01 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

I honestly don't see how having it be manual adds any sort of skill or depth.

There actually is a measure of skill involved in holding down a mouse button and actively aiming.
The pressure you put on the mouse, however slight, can change how easily you aim and make corrections.
Also, as witnessed by those who complain about how holding down the mouse button for extended periods of time can be uncomfortable, it's obviously not as physically easy as the proposed option.
And are you telling me there's no skill involved in learning when to charge and when not to, both to ease physical stress and for stealth or knowing when you don't need a full charge_

Just because it's not something that takes a lot of skill doesn't mean it takes no skill.
Just because it doesn't add a lot of depth doesn't mean it adds no depth.

This is like saying that giving the enemy football team athletes foot gives you a minuscule but existent advantage. The statement is probably true, but in the face of other options like working on your throwing accuracy, it is in idiotic notion to say that it should be considered.

Personally, I think getting rid of charging altogether is the way to go. It would make the weapons harder to use, as you would have an inability to spam pucks/HEAT shots. I think the lack of versatility presented by this postulation is for the better, as one of the major drawbacks to other burst weapons, like all current secondaries, is that if you miss the shot, you've lost alot of ground. In contrast, If you miss with the EOC repeater, not only do your pucks stay on the ground for a few seconds, but you don't even have to wait for the whole cooldown before you can fire another volley.

Edited by Glacius, September 01 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Xionos]

Glacius, on September 01 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Personally, I think getting rid of charging altogether is the way to go. It would make the weapons harder to use, as you would have an inability to spam pucks/HEAT shots. I think the lack of versatility presented by this postulation is for the better, as one of the major drawbacks to other burst weapons, like all current secondaries, is that if you miss the shot, you've lost alot of ground. In contrast, If you miss with the EOC repeater, not only do your pucks stay on the ground for a few seconds, but you don't even have to wait for the whole cooldown before you can fire another volley.

I wouldn't aim for this. The charge is supposed to be an advantage on each of the weapons and part of what makes them unique. Exuding the EOC, the Heat and T32 bolt lose DPS charging to full in return for added benifits (more burst, aoe, etc.) Taking the charge off those two weapons would make them very boring and not interesting. The EOC has the same DPS charged and uncharged, it just gains more burst.

The thing I'm saying is that you should be able to fire them at their maximum refire rate, and when not firing they start to charge. All three of the weapons lose nothing by charging when not firing.

Edited by Xionos, September 01 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[ShadowWarg]

Make it into a new internal. There problem solved. Have a nice day, good bye.

[ExtremeUnction]

Man, people really get into things on these forums. Imo, it would help ease the stress on the mouse and finger and I would like that because after using charge weapons for an hour it feels like I've been playing Diablo. Regardless of the whole skill thing, when a player gets to a point this is pretty irrelevant and if the pressure you have to put onto your mouse makes it harder to aim you should probably get a new mouse or get use to a higher sensitivity.

It just wouldn't feel right if weapons auto-charged. As soon as you spawn, your weapon charges and sits there shaking like a toddler pulling into Disney World in their mom's car.

[Xionos]

The problem is that good players start charging their weapons almost immediately when they enter a game anyways, and will continue to charge it for most of the game. You never know when someone could pop around a corner.

There is another option here which I'll bring up now.
Make it so it's not advantageous to charge all charge weapons all the time. There's no two ways about it. Either it's pointless to not have them charge themselves, or there needs to be a reason to not be charging them all the time.

EXAMPLE A small disadvantage would be having a small radar signature while the weapons are fully charged. EXAMPLE

Edited by Xionos, September 01 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[Exeon]

You're trying to take away from the skill of hawken, there is nothing more that needs to be said. There is a skill about when to charge and when not to charge with every charged weapon. It may not require much skill but it is still a skill.

I rarely ever full charge heat cannon, the only time I do charge are when I have no angle on the target(behind cover/angle i'm aiming wont land my shot)

Now I don't have a lot of play time with the other weapons but I can guarantee you that you do not always want to be charging weapons, stealth is a big factor especially for mechs like the infiltrator. The target could also be at super low life, why would you bother charging your weapon for a whole second when they have 33 life left and winging them would kill them.

Edited by Exeon, September 01 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Xionos, on September 01 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

The problem is that I personally start charging my weapons almost immediately when I enter a game anyways, and I will continue to charge it for most of the game. I never know when someone could pop around a corner.

Fixed your post for you.

Remember, "Me" != "Everybody"

[Xionos]

Exeon, on September 01 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

You're trying to take away from the skill of hawken, there is nothing more that needs to be said. There is a skill about when to charge and when not to charge with every charged weapon. It may not require much skill but it is still a skill.

I rarely ever full charge heat cannon, the only time I do charge are when I have no angle on the target(behind cover/angle i'm aiming wont land my shot)

Now I don't have a lot of play time with the other weapons but I can guarantee you that you do not always want to be charging weapons, stealth is a big factor especially for mechs like the infiltrator. The target could also be at super low life, why would you bother charging your weapon for a whole second when they have 33 life left and winging them would kill them.

Read the top, no real disadvantage to charging ANY CHARGE WEAPON. Your heat cannon deals more damage, shoots faster, has more AOE when charged. Has better heat management too, no disadvantage. The heat cannon does more DPS uncharged, but if your crosshair is not on your target and you aren't shooting, you should be charging.

AsianJoyKiller, on September 01 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Xionos, on September 01 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

The problem is that I personally start charging my weapons almost immediately when I enter a game anyways, and I will continue to charge it for most of the game. I never know when someone could pop around a corner.

Fixed your post for you.

Remember, "Me" != "Everybody"

What disadvantage is there to holding charge on any charge weapon_


You can still fire before it finishes charging and this would be an optional thing. I'd prefer if had to actually choose between charging your weapon and not charging your weapon, but the amount of situations currently where you wouldn't charge when your target is not in your crosshairs or you aren't firing.

If you want charge weapons not to charge themselves, there needs to be a legitimate reason charge weapons shouldn't be charged 99% of the time. Finally, this would be completely OPTIONAL whether or not they charged themselves.

Edited by Xionos, September 01 2013 - 06:43 PM.