213 replies to this topic

[ropefish]

just give the devs a bit more time till the December patch
dont worry have our devs ever really let us down_

[Sylhiri]

ropefish, on November 30 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

dont worry have our devs ever really let us down_

Your going to have to be more specific with that question.

[Beefsweat]

So turret mode is still a joke_ Neato!

[Tubes]

Party fixes when___

I need my fix of esports and I can't do it without those party improvements.

[Sylhiri]

Tubes, on November 30 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I need my fix of esports and I can't do it without those party improvements.

Anything close to esports is a long, LONG way away.

[Akrium]

Dew, on November 30 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

Akrium, on November 29 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Why is the Hawkin's now a fully upgrade option over the AR_ It has a longer range, better accuracy and more dps. WHAT_!_!_!

The gun is failing in use because sustain weapons are still failing on a whole and you have way too many similar guns that are sustain dmg. Pick one of 5 similar sustain dmg weapons that are different in dmg/accuracy and range in a balanced way. Plus you put in on some mechs that have no real reason to use it. Such as the brawler.

Why even compare it to the AR_ The AR isn't an option on any mech that can use the Hawkins. That aside, even among sustain weapons the SA Hawkins was easily the worst. It needed a damage boost badly.

it had the worst dps because it had the farthest range of effective damage. It made sense to be that way. Let me give you a better idea..

Vulcan 114 dps 100m efr (effective range)
SMC 100 dps 85m efr
AR 86 dps 140m eft
AM-SAR 84.5 dps 160m efr
Hawkins 81.25 dps 175m efr
Slug 59 dps 260m efr

Note that the range and accuracy gets better as you go down the line. The only hiccup in that line is the vulcan.. as it actually has a better eff range than the smc.. but the accuracy is SO bad that it works out in a trade off. Thus as you get guns that are generally more accurate, they go farther and do less dmg. This is logical from a balance standpoint.

But the new Hawkins is going to be 11.5% better now. Thus that puts the dps at 90.59 dps.

How is that at all logical_ It totally throws the whole balance off. While it is true that no mech has both the AR and the Hawkin's it also causes another issue. Now those using the Hawkins have an ADVANTAGE over those using their ranged option of the AR. Not only in dps.. but accuracy and range!

You cannot think of balance just based on 1 weapon, but how all weapons around it could be affected as well and how that can cause issues w/ other mechs. If they want to buff the Hawkins 11.5%, they should buff the AR and AM-SAR the same as well. The Hawkin's should NOT be more powerful than those guns from a balancing standpoint. Using the reasoning that the gun isn't hardly used isn't a good excuse to make it out of whack w/ your balancing of the sustain weapons. i'd even consider buffing the SMC range as well, though not damage per shot.

[ShadowGTR]

As much as I hate to admit the Raider needing a nerf, it did need a bit of one. However, I would have preferred a range nerf to the MIRV rather than a damage reduction. The Raider is supposed to be CQC primarily, and designed to get in close and hit hard. I will see how the MIRV works out after the patch, but I am suspecting that I will be using the Grenade mode more. I am not a huge fan of it due to its slow, arcing nature. I have concerns, but I will hold my thoughts until I actually try out the nerf and see how I feel about it.

Something that is also a concern, although very minor on the scale of priorities: more rentals_ Why_ Perhaps more people are plunking down MC for these than I realize.... Still, I would prefer that rentals be gone and just have them as limited time buy options. Just my thought on the matter.

RD-L4NCET looks totally boss, and I'll definitely be picking it up. The Reentry thrusters also look pretty sweet.

Glad to hear that more adjustments are planned for the Brawler. The poor thing could use some buffs.

[ropefish]

Sylhiri, on November 30 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

ropefish, on November 30 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

dont worry have our devs ever really let us down_

Your going to have to be more specific with that question.

they always* make things better after they fuzzy bunny things up

*85% of the time

[ShadowWarg]

Beefsweat, on November 30 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

So turret mode is still a joke_ Neato!

Yep we never got that removal of rear damage bonus we asked for, or a revert to the old turning cap.

Edit: Actually that's unfair of me on my end. The Seattle team probably got the build to test weeks ago, even before the whole convo on turret mode start (again). So I shouldn't be surprised that there aren't many changes.

Edited by ShadowWarg, November 30 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Aregon]

Quote

*85% of the time

By mentioning a number somebody will now most likely go through every post and do the calculations to see if you are right. Prepare the hate.

[ropefish]

Aregon, on November 30 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Quote

*85% of the time

By mentioning a number somebody will now most likely go through every post and do the calculations to see if you are right. Prepare the hate.

dont worry i got my C-class shields down >_>

[KejiGoto]

FenixStryk, on November 30 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Keji, perhaps you've encountered a bout of lacunar amnesia_ While surely the Grenadier and Rocketeer are faster than the Brawler, I have not forgotten the ubiquitous cries to make C Class mechs faster. I understand the Brawler is in a regrettable state, but if one leg is too short then the correct solution is to lengthen that one leg. There is little need to adjust aspects of other mechs when those aspects are fine as they are. In short: If you want to buff the Brawler, Buff The Brawler.

As for a steep learning curve being beneficial for a game: I don't disagree, but you're at this point asking for the whole of Ascension to be undone. Every tune and internal spits in the face of Hawken's learning curve. If you don't want to learn something, tune it away until you don't have to. That is Hawken. Good luck in your endeavor; you'll need it.

Thanks for the patch. It is a small* step forward. *exact size to be determined

You seem to have missed my point so I will explain it a little better.

What I'm saying is that according to the developers reasoning for making the Brawler so slow it doesn't make sense when you compare it to other mechs in the game which currently fit the role of "walking tank" far better than the Brawler does. Grenadier and Rocketeer are two mechs which are very spam focused and also pack a decent amount of mobility giving them the edge to not only keep up with combat but also chase down enemies while also actively engaging them. The Brawler has a much more limited range with Flak and Vulcan being focused on close to mid range and also lacks the ability to get it's shots around corners unless you use air burst on someone who is sitting right beside the corner. The SA Hawkins provides some pretty good range but the TOW unfortunately isn't a great support weapon for this play style and again mobility hinders the Brawler from keeping pace with its target and moving to vantage points quickly to take advantage of ranged combat.

My point is Brawler's play style doesn't match what it is currently capable of and I'm using other much more capable mechs to highlight this. Unless people are coming to the Brawler there really isn't much a Brawler pilot can do to stay in the heat of combat. Whenever I play Brawler on any map besides Uptown I feel like I spend 20% of the match actually fighting and the other 80% hoping to move to where the action is before it is over. Also that 20% includes showing up at the last second to get in a shot or two before the battle is over.

As for the learning curve I'm not asking for everything Ascension has done to be removed, undone, or anything like that. In fact I rather like the new internal system, tuning system, and item system. I think it lends itself to much more diversity on the battlefield in terms of builds and what mechs are capable of. What I'm talking about is that the developers need to stop catering to the lowest common denominator when it comes to internals and mech capabilities. Something like Failsafe honestly has no place in Hawken as it promotes a much less skilled approach and makes things easier on the user.

Compare Failsafe to Deflectors which reduces damage by 20% when dodging or boosting. Now I can't reduce my own damage meaning I can't just rush in, hug someone, and fire everything I've got when using Deflectors. However what I can do is time my dodging or boosting when I know I'm going to get hit to reduce the damage being done. This requires skill and promotes better gameplay from pilots. It also aids when I'm attempting to flee from an engagement gone south.

On the flip side Failsafe has one use and one use only which leaves the user at a massive advantage and the opponent at a massive disadvantage. The only way to counter Failsafe is to move away from the user and sadly against certain mechs that is pretty much impossible. I can't get away from an EOC Raider using Blitz or a Scout packing Heat Cannon, especially because I favor the Cupcake at the moment. Even when using a lighter and faster mech like an Infiltrator putting that distance between myself and them is very challenging because I need to also be able to attack. Failsafe isn't tied to fuel usage, heat generated, or anything. It is in a constant state of being active.

Deflectors on the other hand can be combated. When I know someone is using them I save my hard hitting weapons for right after they dodge or when they get done boosting in order to maximize damage. I work to keep their fuel levels low so they can't take advantage of Deflectors damage reduction. Even if they can take advantage of it the benefits are only marginal in the grand scheme of things. I can still overcome that defense with better shot placement and item usage.

No matter how good I am there's nothing I can do outside of running away from someone with Failsafe to reduce its effectiveness on the battlefield. The unfortunate thing here is that in the heat of battle it is hard to keep track of everyone and everything giving these players ample opportunity to rush in, hug someone, and destroy them while taking the least amount of damage possible from it.

These are the kinds of things I'm talking about when I say learning curve. Players shouldn't be taught to disregard their own damage and use kamikaze techniques (minus the whole killing yourself to kill your opponent aspect) to win. Players should be taught to use their mech's abilities, weapons, and features to the best of their ability. When a game is difficult to master it becomes much more rewarding to learn than "Oh hey I saved up the 1,200 Hawken Credits I needed for the Failsafe."

If games like Mech Warrior can hold the audience it has over the years while also being incredibly difficult to master I think Hawken can manage to avoid the "easy way out" mechanics we've seen and still maintain a nice active audience. This is a PC game after all, not some watered down console nonsense. =p

[SandSpider]

Please be a little bit more patient with the Dev's. They told us that this patch would be content focused. We all know that they are a small team and quite frankly, what they have made for all of us, to play for free, is pretty damn good. To me, the art and design for this game is much better than anything else I've seen.

So there are a few things still not one hundred percent perfect with it. We all know the Dev's are working tirelessly away, trying to fix things, so give them a chance.

[CookieTheory]

ropefish, on November 30 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Aregon, on November 30 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Quote

*85% of the time

By mentioning a number somebody will now most likely go through every post and do the calculations to see if you are right. Prepare the hate.

dont worry i got my C-class shields down >_>

Its not enough take this!

Spoiler

[Ysenberg]

Hi guys, Good evening Dev-team!

Thanks for the new map and the Frostburn event
Too bad the style-extras are only time-limited rentals, i can't afford to spend any real money on limited items.
My opinion on the weapon-updates: If i was in the field for real, i would probably have to wait a lot longer until changes would be applied to my mech. Being in a game in beta-status, isn't that deadly, i'll just sit it out.
A new Mech for Christmas would have been fun, but a snowmap might do the trick for the time until the next release ^^

Goodnight everyone, it's past midnight here

Ysen

[ropefish]

Ysenberg, on November 30 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

Hi guys, Good evening Dev-team!

Thanks for the new map and the Frostburn event
Too bad the style-extras are only time-limited rentals, i can't afford to spend any real money on limited items.
My opinion on the weapon-updates: If i was in the field for real, i would probably have to wait a lot longer until changes would be applied to my mech. Being in a game in beta-status, isn't that deadly, i'll just sit it out.
A new Mech for Christmas would have been fun, but a snowmap might do the trick for the time until the next release ^^

Goodnight everyone, it's past midnight here

Ysen

i think for the December patch we get a new mech
nov patch was extended to the 3rd remember

[ShadowWarg]

New mech isn't scheduled til Q1. My guess_ February. March at the latest.

[ropefish]

ShadowWarg, on November 30 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

New mech isn't scheduled til Q1. My guess_ February. March at the latest.

aw....

[KejiGoto]

ShadowWarg, on November 30 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

New mech isn't scheduled til Q1. My guess_ February. March at the latest.

I believe we're getting a new mech in the next update. They've been working on it for awhile now.

[StruttingStray]

KejiGoto, on November 30 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on November 30 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

New mech isn't scheduled til Q1. My guess_ February. March at the latest.

I believe we're getting a new mech in the next update. They've been working on it for awhile now.

Devs stated that the Q1 mech is suppose to share a weapon with the tech (it's prestige weapon). As for getting a mech before that, the devs haven't posted anything that I know of.