24 replies to this topic

[ShadowWarg]

One thing that is commonly commonly complained about the hellfire is its lack of skill, fire and forget type of gameplay as well as its lack of depth. Unfortunately the hellfire has a potential that has gone un-utilized for a long time now.

Multi-lock is a feature for the hellfire that makes a good amount of sense for this weapon to have, especially when you consider how the gun functions and would also help give the gun the depth and strategic play its lacking.

The gun fires 8 - 10 (I forget the actual number) missiles in 2 volleys. The quantity of missiles fired gives the weapon great potential to become a crowd control and suppression weapon, which  In turn makes it a better team based gun by allowing the user to harass and poke multiple targets at once, as on their own, the indidual  missile do not do a whole lot of damage.

This also gives a type of nerf to the gun, which is something that the current version needs. Locking on to multiple targets would take a longer time, and of course if you don't have a full count of lock-on of missiles, the overall amount of damage that can be done per shot is reduced.

I'm not suggesting the elimination of the ability to target a single mech as the weapon was designed as a low skill weapon to allow newer/lower skill players to have an easier time playing the game, nor am I suggesting removing the hellfire's missile shot gun that is dumb firing; I am suggesting to give the freedom to allocate the missile between targets. Give more advance players more options, allowing them to actually choose priority targets strategically while still keeping the ease of use for non-advance players. I'm sure there are a number of ways that multi-lock and missile quantity control can be used in advance ways that I'm not thinking of.

I'm not forgetting about the suggestion to use a laser guide for the hellfire, my thing is with that, is I rather see that as a completely new weapon that fires a lower amount of missiles (1-3) rather that giving it to the hell-fire and not taking advantage of its greater suppression potential and numbers.

[ropefish]

MLRS are coming soon, that's why the devs are not going to change it

[Weezl3]

I understand that you think the current hellfire mechanic needs changing, but I'm pretty sure allowing them to target multiple people simultaneously will do the exact opposite of nerfing them. The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once, instead of focusing one at a time. I feel that the easiest nerf to make to the current hellfires would be to simple tune their damage back, or change the gymnastics the missiles can do in mid-air back to the way it operated pre-ascension.
Also, I feel like this should be in Suggestions, not in General Discussion. Just saying.

[HugeGuts]

I like changing how homing works over a complete weapon redesign. Something like, Hellfire damage and cool down is now split into multilple locks - Up to four separate locks. The locks can stack on one target or spread over multiple targets. Damage potential and cool down is proportional to the number of lock ons before firing.

[LoC_TR]

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I understand that you think the current hellfire mechanic needs changing, but I'm pretty sure allowing them to target multiple people simultaneously will do the exact opposite of nerfing them. The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once, instead of focusing one at a time. I feel that the easiest nerf to make to the current hellfires would be to simple tune their damage back, or change the gymnastics the missiles can do in mid-air back to the way it operated pre-ascension.
Also, I feel like this should be in Suggestions, not in General Discussion. Just saying.

If you lowered the damage it might work. I like the idea, however in high tier games it might not even work. too many players jumping in and out of cover all the time. that many targets moving all the time, you'd have trouble getting a shot off at the right time. like i said i like the idea it would be a really cool suppression mech like the grenadier.

[ropefish]

HUGHES tell them about the MLRS pls

[Cruzxavier]

Honestly the hellfires could be just the way they are right now...if something needs changing is the seeker!! Look in the game site the characteristics of the seeker....full effective range_ look at the sniper rifles.....like 75% S.A. Hawkins ok....90% Slug Rifle___ What_ a sniper rifle don't have range...mhm...over a rocket_...mhm....

Ok it has quite a heat generation....but look at the fire rate!!!

But new players need better experience...agreed. Maybe limiting the rocketeer as it his to low level players_ How about that for balance issues_ Oh...shew...forget i said that

Edited by Cruzxavier, December 09 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I understand that you think the current hellfire mechanic needs changing, but I'm pretty sure allowing them to target multiple people simultaneously will do the exact opposite of nerfing them.

If a player cant land a full lock, on one or multiple enemies, than naturally the damage done per shot is reduced. Also locking on to enemies 1-2 missiles at a time, is a longer process if you are trying to land a full lock, also lowering the DPS.

It now becomes a weapon that can be used for situational tactics. Having a lower lock on count allows for a faster rate of fire at the cost of damage and lets your harass a target in a more frequently. On the other hand having a higher lock on count lets you maximize the damage potential on a singe target but at the cost of time.

OR your can do like you said just below.

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once, instead of focusing one at a time.

And that is one of the benefit in my honest opinion. This allows you to pressure and distract the other team while giving yours a chance to take advantage of their confusion. Or even force pursuing opponents to back off, helping a wounded teammate escape.

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I feel that the easiest nerf to make to the current hellfires would be to simple tune their damage back, or change the gymnastics the missiles can do in mid-air back to the way it operated pre-ascension.

It would be easier, but that doesn't fix the basic problem of the gun, or give the weapon any more potential depth to it. It still leaves it as a just a low skill weapon, rather than an ease of use weapon for the lower skilled, that can be used as an advanced utility weapon for higher team play.

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Also, I feel like this should be in Suggestions, not in General Discussion. Just saying.

Maybe it should be, but my focus isn't giving the devs a suggestion. I'm discussing and trying to get arguments just like the one you posted to trying an understand why or why people are for/against this. Besides I'm more likely to get an AJK post as to why this wouldn't (or would) work.

ropefish, on December 09 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

HUGHES tell them about the MLRS pls

Do you even know how the MLRS is going to work in the game if its added_ The corsair MIRV doesn't function like an actual. I wouldn't be surprised if it work as a machine gun that fires a mass load of rockets.Even if it has multi-lock then all that means is that the hell-fire's use of so many multiple projectiles is near pointless, and imo would be better off just cutting down the number or missiles fired to 2 or 3 and increase each individual missile's base damage if all you are going to do is stick with basic homing. It just clutters the play field and forces the servers to track more in game objects to have that many missiles flying around with no other reason than to hit a single person.

Edited by ShadowWarg, December 09 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[ropefish]

ShadowWarg, on December 09 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I understand that you think the current hellfire mechanic needs changing, but I'm pretty sure allowing them to target multiple people simultaneously will do the exact opposite of nerfing them.

If a player cant land a full lock, on one or multiple enemies, than naturally the damage done per shot is reduced. Also locking on to enemies 1-2 missiles at a time, is a longer process if you are trying to land a full lock, also lowering the DPS.

It now becomes a weapon that can be used for situational tactics. Having a lower lock on count allows for a faster rate of fire at the cost of damage and lets your harass a target in a more frequently. On the other hand having a higher lock on count lets you maximize the damage potential on a singe target but at the cost of time.

OR your can do like you said just below.

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once, instead of focusing one at a time.

And that is one of the benefit in my honest opinion. This allows you to pressure and distract the other team while giving yours a chance to take advantage of their confusion. Or even force pursuing opponents to back off, helping a wounded teammate escape.

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I feel that the easiest nerf to make to the current hellfires would be to simple tune their damage back, or change the gymnastics the missiles can do in mid-air back to the way it operated pre-ascension.

It would be easier, but that doesn't fix the basic problem of the gun, or give the weapon any more potential depth to it. It still leaves it as a just a low skill weapon, rather than an ease of use weapon for the lower skilled, that can be used as an advanced utility weapon for higher team play.

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Also, I feel like this should be in Suggestions, not in General Discussion. Just saying.

Maybe it should be, but my focus isn't giving the devs a suggestion. I'm discussing and trying to get arguments just like the one you posted to trying an understand why or why people are for/against this. Besides I'm more likely to get an AJK post as to why this wouldn't (or would) work.

ropefish, on December 09 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

HUGHES tell them about the MLRS pls

Do you even know how the MLRS is going to work in the game if its added_ The corsair MIRV doesn't function like an actual. I wouldn't be surprised if it work as a machine gun that fires a mass load of rockets.Even if it has multi-lock then all that means is that the hell-fire's use of so many multiple projectiles is near pointless, and imo would be better off just cutting down the number or missiles fired to 2 or 3 and increase each individual missile's base damage if all you are going to do is stick with basic homing. It just clutters the play field and forces the servers to track more in game objects to have that many missiles flying around with no other reason than to hit a single person.

party pooper :T
well ok then so eventual we will have two weapons with multi lock

[Bazookagofer]

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

I understand that you think the current hellfire mechanic needs changing, but I'm pretty sure allowing them to target multiple people simultaneously will do the exact opposite of nerfing them. The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once, instead of focusing one at a time. I feel that the easiest nerf to make to the current hellfires would be to simple tune their damage back, or change the gymnastics the missiles can do in mid-air back to the way it operated pre-ascension.
Also, I feel like this should be in Suggestions, not in General Discussion. Just saying.

or just revamp the hellfires into a weapon that requires skill_

[ShadowWarg]

Your missing the point ropefish. There doesn't need to be 2 weapons with multi-lock. 1 is fine. It just that the current hell-fire with its mass shot is kind of pointless, and Rocketeer and Bruiser are suppose to long range suppression mechs. Using multi-lock of it is a way to take advantage of the large volume of missiles, and also better solidifies these mechs roles as suppressors rather than the pure combat mechs they are now.

[Cruzxavier]

Quote

well ok then so eventual we will have two weapons with multi lock

That can be good or bad depending on the damage output. the same thing that happened to EOC could happen to Hellfires. Don't change the bruiser's hellfires....it may help keeping the variety of gameplay if bruiser keeps regular HF and the rocketeer gets a new function...i think

[t3chn0v1k1ng]

would be so sick to do with my dual joysticks.
Love targeting with physical lock on buttons!

I'd like to see this happen

[nepacaka]

In there multi-lock is useless, cuz you deal extra low damage whole enemy in team, but extra low. And some enemy can hide/evade, and you dps is fuzzy. This only work if all in you team use multi-lock in one moment. Imo. And you have 5 multi-lock rocketeer in one team =Ъ
But I want multi-lock =3

Edited by nepacaka, December 09 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[comic_sans]

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once

Dude you can do that now buy pressing lock a buncha times on a crowd before you actually pick a target.  It's hilarious.  Like cockroaches in sunlight.  Hell, it's even a good way to figure out who doesn't take cover when they should and to focus on them.

Edited by comic_sans, December 09 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[ropefish]

comic_sans, on December 09 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once

Dude you can do that now buy pressing lock a buncha times on a crowd before you actually pick a target.  It's hilarious.  Like cockroaches in sunlight.  Hell, it's even a good way to figure out who doesn't take cover when they should and to focus on them.

so when you lock on, it causes the incoming before the hellfires are shot o-o

[Cruzxavier]

ropefish, on December 09 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

so when you lock on, it causes the incoming before the hellfires are shot o-o

Sir, that is correct!!

[ShadowWarg]

ropefish, on December 09 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

comic_sans, on December 09 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once

Dude you can do that now buy pressing lock a buncha times on a crowd before you actually pick a target.  It's hilarious.  Like cockroaches in sunlight.  Hell, it's even a good way to figure out who doesn't take cover when they should and to focus on them.

so when you lock on, it causes the incoming before the hellfires are shot o-o

No, incoming only appears after the missiles are fired. Would be nice if you were warned when people had a lock on you rather than AFTER they fire though.

[comic_sans]

ShadowWarg, on December 09 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

ropefish, on December 09 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

comic_sans, on December 09 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Weezl3, on December 09 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

The majority of the time people see the "Incoming" beacon and immediately dodge into cover. Now you'll have the ability to make multiple people disengage at once

Dude you can do that now buy pressing lock a buncha times on a crowd before you actually pick a target.  It's hilarious.  Like cockroaches in sunlight.  Hell, it's even a good way to figure out who doesn't take cover when they should and to focus on them.

so when you lock on, it causes the incoming before the hellfires are shot o-o

No, incoming only appears after the missiles are fired. Would be nice if you were warned when people had a lock on you rather than AFTER they fire though.

What_ I've had an overheated rocketeer stare me in the face and just lock and lock and lock and lock tryin to psyche me out.

[Exeon]

Why would anyone pick a mech that cannot focus fire_ This is in my opinion not what the hellfires need. In competitive play focus firing is a huge advantage and even when playing in high end pubs you see it quite a lot.