184 replies to this topic

[Phantasmo]

Yorgoss, on March 29 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

I've yet to use the Predator, but if you think about it it's the only A-Class...

Predator is B-Class.
Invalid post.

Also:

"I've yet to use the Predator, but"

Yours is an useful feedback for sure.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 30 2014 - 06:11 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Phantasmo, on March 30 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Yorgoss, on March 29 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

I've yet to use the Predator, but if you think about it it's the only A-Class...

Predator is B-Class.
Invalid post.

Also:

"I've yet to use the Predator, but"

Yours is an useful feedback for sure.

You know you don't have to be mean about it... <.<

[Yorgoss]

Okay, B-Class.

Sorry my mistake forced you to "invalidate" the forum post of someone you don't know. Your life must be hard...

[McBonY]

I kinda get Phantasmo's reaction, cause what you described, Yorgoss, is a pure theorycraft fantasy. And i do get why you had this idea, cause on paper, Predator weapons and skills work just like you said. In reality though, the "hold a chokepoint" thing may work in co-op against bots, and thats a big "maybe". Cloak is even worse, and hell, in this case bots find you quicker than players. Pekaboo works, if you find someone who will allow you to play this way, like sniper with bad aim or turreted guy with tech on his back, who will just ignore you and your "breacher" ;]

[Yorgoss]

It's not like I was talking about Deathmatch. Holding a chokepoint isn't something special or rare, it happens a lot and you don't do it all by yourself.

I may just be theorycrafting, but I'm not talking crazy. Some mechs like open areas, some like lots of cover, some like chokepoints.

[Odinous]

so all of you who saying all this fuzzy bunny about how bad the predator is,you never saw a predator dominate in a match_and I don't mean only about top places,but in other modes like ma/siege a smart predator player can change the flow of the match,you never saw that_or you never saw a good predator killing on 1on1 his enemy(whatever mech)_his weapons were weak,they buffed eoc/t32,ok the breacher is not as leathal as it could be,but that does not mean that mech is weak.i see lots of people using the predator so wrong,facing the enemy mechs face to face when your role is to surprise attack!check videos on youtube,check guides,learn to use him correctly.
I enjoy most of the mechs but this one when played right is my top one.

Edited by Odinous, March 30 2014 - 08:08 AM.

[McBonY]

Sure, Odinous, i've seen it, i've done it. But if i have a good game with Pred, i'm pretty sure i would have even better scores using anything else.

Predator is fun, it has unique gameplay, and i enjoy playing it, but when things get serious i'll respawn in different mech ;]

[IroncladLion]

Just going to use this again from Phantasmo's thread:

'Some stuff people seem to be getting a bit wrong:

Hawken is designed to be a competitive squad based game of 6v6. And every mech is supposed to be 'balanced' and have its role in a team effort. Yes, the Predator does more than nothing for a team, it can maybe lure an enemy through a choke point and kill it, It can maybe snipe an escaping mech with the breacher, and it can maybe sneak up behind a repairing enemy and shoot it in the back. Please understand that there is already a mech in the game that can do any of those things just as well. And just because some really experienced players managed to do well in it doesn't mean that 'hurr durr if you aren't doing well in the Predator you don't know how to use it'. Seriously. Stop. That same experienced player could just play a scout, berserker, or infiltrator and be twice as useful. ALSO, don't say anything about how it's supposed to be a 'defense' mech because it's in the defense category. You know what else is in the defense category_ The scout.

So, wipe away the categories of mechs and their 'intended' use on the battlefield. Now look at the Predator and tell me that it is a competitive mech. Sure, you can kill new players with it and do great, I've done that plenty as well, that means nothing. I've played in matches where I was at the top of the scoreboard in the Predator with stats of 6/2/18, you know what_ We lost. Because I happened to get a crappy team. I've also played in matches where I went 8/0/24, and won! Guess what, I was at the bottom of the score board. The point is, it wasn't me who was making a difference in the game, it was my team. It doesn't matter how well I played the Predator, my team would have won / lost anyways. In fact if I had played a different class I probably could have helped my team more.'

The point being about the above rant is really along the lines of what McBonY is getting at. If you actually want to help your team, you generally pick a different mech. If you want to have a bit of fun, you play the Pred. I love the Pred just as much as other people in this thread, but just because the gameplay is fun doesn't make it competitive.

To Yorgoss:
you say: 'some mechs like open areas, some like lots of cover, some like chokepoints.' Yes, and some mechs like the air. The Predator literally has no kind of way to counter an air opponent. Then best thing you can do it hope to hit them with your primary. And against an air compressing A-class that is hugging you, good luck. When all another mech has to do to thwart your minefield that took close to 10 seconds to prepare is press the space bar or shoot one of the flashing mines, is that fair_ On paper the Predator has a nice spot, in the game however it's really quite useless to a team.

To Odinous:
I've 'dominated' plenty of matches in my Predator in which I played amazing. Hell I've gone 12/0/20 ish in team deathmatch before, but it's not like I can do that every game. The only reason I could do that was because the other team came straight out of CoD. And watching YouTube videos of people who happened to do well in one match doesn't make the mech any better I'm afraid.

EDIT: Don't mean to come off as hostile, it's just frustrating to see so many people dismiss that the predator could use a bit of love (or a lot) by just saying that people don't use it correctly. If you could change the mech to make it better, what would you do_ Or do you think it is perfectly fine how it is_

Edited by IroncladLion, March 30 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

IroncladLion, on March 30 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

*snip*

This.  I couldn't have said it any better.

[Yorgoss]

Some mechs like the air, of course you're right. Berserkers, for instance, make quick work of most mechs B-Class and below.

I would argue that fighting those mechs as a Predator is akin to fighting a Scout that's using cover, using let's say a Bruiser. And I'm sure you'd agree.

Is this the fault of the Predator, or do we not say "use better positioning" under these circumstances_ Saying it's too weak is fine, but basing that on the least desirable scenario you can think of (battling a flying prick) is wrong. The question is "does the Predator do it's job_"

Well, what IS the job_ We know it's not battling flying mechs. The Predator's tag says Defense. Mines are good in chokepoints. Chokepoints present CQC and Shields, both of which the Breacher is built for. Still scared of flying mechs_ Place an EOC Rocketeer on the map and point it towards the Predator's chokepoint. Now die to the flying mech. You can't, can you_ Now put down a Scrambler.

If the enemy team rounds the corner, let alone tries to step through, they're toasted.

Also, if I can learn to hit Rev-GL and EOC shots in the air, I'm confident I can learn to hit EOC-P shots.

Edited by Yorgoss, March 30 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[Phantasmo]

We are talking three things here:

• What is Predator's role in the game_ Is it long range support_ Is it a sneaky bastard poking and finishing off damaged mechs_ Stealth assassin_
  
• Is the Predator up to his role, whatever that role is_ Does it have the right weapons_
  
• Is that role a necessary one_ Would a team do better with a different mech_ Is it really helpful_

"Defensive mech". How are you going to defend anything when you can't kill a kitten_
Does the Predator have the right weapons to sneak behind enemy lines_
Are you sure an AR and a TOW/Hellfire (either CR-T, Assault etc) or a Sniper/Reaper would not give the team much more and much better long range support_
Are landmines a useful thing in a a game of flying mechs_

[Battlesbreak]

Nah predator is alright. That dat breacher makes Predator a serious hunter among other mechs. Jesus christ that damage!

[AsianJoyKiller]

Yorgoss, on March 30 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

Well, what IS the job_ We know it's not battling flying mechs. The Predator's tag says Defense. Mines are good in chokepoints. Chokepoints present CQC and Shields, both of which the Breacher is built for. Still scared of flying mechs_ Place an EOC Rocketeer on the map and point it towards the Predator's chokepoint. Now die to the flying mech. You can't, can you_ Now put down a Scrambler.

If the enemy team rounds the corner, let alone tries to step through, they're toasted.

That may work against some low MMR pub team, but it's not going to be effective against player who know what they're doing. A single grenade will render the Preds trap heavily weakened or completely obiterated, and it is a slow process to rebuild it, giving more than enough time for a relatively safe advance.

Also, have you played the Predator yet_

[Breech]

The Predator is absolutely fine. Everyone who says he isn't has some serious problems! You just don't know how to play with him. The only thing which should get a buff is his cloak, NOTHING more!

[McBonY]

Ok, Breech, care to elaborate_ A video maybe_ Because either you are really good, or you have really low expectations when it comes to being "fine".

[Hellrazer_001]

Stupid Noobies on your own team, stand there next to you, and watch you laying your mines then shoot them and blow you up, or walk straight across where you are laying them and blow you up, this has happened about 5 times in the last 2 days.Its starting to tick me off!, and you cant always stand back and lay them, especially when you are doing precision laying around Missile Turrets etc, so please do not say that.

Edited by Hellrazer_001, March 31 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[iPiv]

Ok, I take predator as soon I see it and buy all the weapon to try it, so I spent days to play it and I'm 10% near max leve and I want to say this:
Predator is underpowered. Stop, the developers MUST give something better because now predator is only a good idea.
For example: if in other team you face some noobs player you can also ambush and kill him, But if you face experienced players you can ambush and lose. No experienced player will follow you into your mine trap to take so much damage to give you hope to kill him. With assault mechs experience players will always kill you first, also if you hit always with full charged shots. In a team deathmatch you can also stay and wait players that retreat to heal and kill him, but also you you succeded to escape other players that will search you, you make so few points that is better play other mechs. In a team death match this could also be ok, but in solo deathmatch_ I NEVER win a solo deathmach with predator, always third or worse, also without die. In the point system based of damage done (I think for what I see), you will never be so speedy and so powerful to make points. So, in a game where all mechs should be balance, the predator have no chance to win a solo deathmatch. Unless you fight against 7 other noob players...
So camon, Developers, don't make mechs usable only for certain types of games, make mechs balanced.
Predator now is underpowered and need, to be playable, something more.

Edited by iPiv, March 31 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[mccrorie]

Mines are detonating before they have a chance to damage players. Just another foible for the Predator. I suppose they calculate detonation based on proximity and not LOS.

[Odinous]

to IroncladLion :
But wait a sec there mate,I love this mech,more than any other,and ofc  I would love if to be buffed,though having a full stealth + stronger mech will probably make people again to cry about balance.all my point,everytme I am answering in the forums about the predator,is that he is NOT useless,people just don know how to use it.

[IroncladLion]

Battlesbreak, on March 30 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

Nah predator is alright. That dat breacher makes Predator a serious hunter among other mechs. Jesus christ that damage!

Going to need a bit more than that for reasoning...

Breech, on March 31 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

The Predator is absolutely fine. Everyone who says he isn't has some serious problems! You just don't know how to play with him. The only thing which should get a buff is his cloak, NOTHING more!

Breech I don't want to go so far as to say you are trolling, but it sure looks like it. If not trolling, please elaborate on what you think would make the better.

Odinous, on March 31 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

to IroncladLion :
But wait a sec there mate,I love this mech,more than any other,and ofc  I would love if to be buffed,though having a full stealth + stronger mech will probably make people again to cry about balance.all my point,everytme I am answering in the forums about the predator,is that he is NOT useless,people just don know how to use it.

Thanks for a good reply, and I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post. The stealth + sight does give the mech quite an edge, but most players who use it effectively all understand that it's the vision that's the most helpful, rather than the stealth. Because to be helpful and actively contribute to the team, you NEED to be moving around and supporting your team no matter the game mode. That's what makes the Predators stealth balanced, for the fact that you literally have to walk everywhere and if you get hit once, boom, no stealth for 15 seconds. I'm not suggesting completely change the predators weapons, nobody wants a cloaked mech with a TOW and Flak cannon now do we. Anyways Odinous, if you were the Hawken dictator, how would you like to see it changed_ You did mention you wanted it to be buffed, how so_

Also. I finally bought the T32 and tried it out. FAR, and I mean FAR more effective at doing work than the breacher, at least after the patch. As long as the enemy is at 1/3 my health before I start shooting, I can usually kill it if it turns around! It feels very close to being balanced I think. However the EOC Predator... It's still as slow as a detonator...


To Yorgoss (forgot to click you in the multi-quote)
'I'm confident I can learn to hit EOC-P shots.'
Try hitting a bird out of the air with a baseball, it's about the same, except in Hawken the bird is trying to kill you.