184 replies to this topic

[Breech]

McBonY, on March 31 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

Ok, Breech, care to elaborate_ A video maybe_ Because either you are really good, or you have really low expectations when it comes to being "fine".

Just because the Predator is a defensive mech which is not like "Oh come on, hug me, I will still kill you with my flying mines and my EOC"
Ever heard about Siege vehicles(He is also in the defense category)_ I bet you play him only in TDM or you wouldn't whine so hard. Even though, I can still kill mechs in mid-air with the predator mines. Just...detonate..ok_ I don't know what your real problem is, you just want to make him better.

[BaoWolf]

I really think predator just needs more practice to be good with. Noob players see that it's this "invisible stalker" and think there going to go mop up with it. They purchase one when they should be buying a assault, or something more Noob friendly, and get smacked around.
I play against at least 3 very good pred players, you can easily be half dead before you ever even see them. Truthfully in DM they might even be broken a little. I think some serious thought needs put into buffing it, if it happens. Is it really any differant than a scout that is the" Glass canon of Hawken" and dies so fast in the hands of a noob_

Edited by BaoWolf, April 03 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[Hellrazer_001]

BaoWolf, on April 03 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

I really think predator just needs more practice to be good with. Noob players see that it's this "invisible stalker" and think there going to go mop up with it. They purchase one when they should be buying a assault, or something more Noob friendly, and get smacked around.
I play against at least 3 very good pred players, you can easily be half dead before you ever even see them. Truthfully in DM they might even be broken a little. I think some serious thought needs put into buffing it, if it happens. Is it really any differant than a scout that is the" Glass canon of Hawken" and dies so fast in the hands of a noob_

How much practice do people need _ if you look at a lot of the peoples post count in this thread 58,83,90,260, 925 even an over 7,371!, do you think these people are Noobs _, I my self have only 30 posts but I am level 30 and have been for weeks, so how long have they been playing _ " Months ", I do dont think of my self as a noob, I have plenty of top of the Score board matches with the Pred, look at the earlier image in this thread 26/7/39  +3 Dominates, but the thing is, it is a fun mech to play, the Mech I play 95% of the time, and on some occasions it dominates,but more times than not it fails, especially against a seasoned player in any other Mech.

Really the only thing it needs is a little more Armor, and a fraction less Heat, and that would allow you to finish off your kill instead of them finishing you off, or managing to just get away most of the time, hence the 39 Assists above.

Its easy to spot a noob repairing, he is the one that will let you pump 10 shots into him, instead of jumping up after one, and planting a rocket in you face

Edited by Hellrazer_001, April 03 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[Lightangel112]

My suggestion still stands. Faster rate of fire, for both predator's default weapons and projectile speed buff to the EOC P + a slight heat reduction. I have played predator for over (160 hours) with this mech in total from all my accounts. I have played in all sorts of games, against all sorts of skill levels. This is what needs to change to make predator a more viable option imo.

Edited by Lightangel112, April 03 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[BaoWolf]

@ Hellraizer: No what im saying is you get most of the negative about the predator from Noobs (Hence they need lots of practice). Notice i said "some serious thought needs put into buffing it"  I'm not saying don't do anything, but to much buff and the predator becomes op fast. Maybe a little armor is good, or the weapons rof like Lightangel said. Usually its so much noobs complaining that the pred is weak on the street and thats just not true, but to do to much to it would make it very op in skilled hands. The pred is like the raider, or the scout, its so sick in the right hands but so unforgiving in the wrong hands. After running with/against Lightangel i have new found respect for the pred and doing to much to it or even doing the wrong thing to it would make it just to much.

[Hellrazer_001]

@BaoWolf, ok sorry, I took what you said the other way around, the Pred does take practice and a lot of thought thats why I like it, instead of just keep finger on button Pew Pew Pew "Assault", it even took me a while to get into a groove with the thing, and I have found that with the EOC-Repeater and being aggresive is my way, but yes it just needs that little more Bite to make it a Fuzzy Tiger instead of a Fuzzy Bunny, the last patch slight increase in the EOC-Repeater damage helped me alot, but it still just needs that little more.

I cant use the Breacher, I have high Pings, and it does nothing with its single shot, most of the time for me.

Laying EOC-P should not decloak you in IMO.

On a different note, last night I was in a Missile Defence match as my Pred, and on the other team was 3 guys "all had same Icon" all working together with Preds, and I actualy done pretty well against the 3 for being alone, but they where very effective as a team, and won the game for there side, you would be fighting one or two, then all of a sudden you where hit in the back by the other, and they where mobile between all the turrets.certainly made for a different game.

Edited by Hellrazer_001, April 03 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[Lightangel112]

Yeah, when fighting multiple predators. It can get very jarring to out flank any of them if working together. It makes moving around that much more difficult, and predator players have a similar thinking pattern so its just hard to do much against knowledgable players. Best is to knock them all out of stealth before they do it to yourself and try maintain that advantage.

Edited by Lightangel112, April 04 2014 - 03:45 AM.

[Stingz]

Lightangel112, on April 04 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

Yeah, when fighting multiple predators. It can get very jarring to out flank any of them if working together. It makes moving around that much more difficult, and predator players have a similar thinking pattern so its just hard to do much against knowledgable players. Best is to knock them all out of stealth before they do it to yourself and try maintain that advantage.

Drop Portable Scanners and play aggressively, Predator starts to fold once it's forced into fights it didn't start.
Flying occasionally really ruins EOC-P in a duel.

Edited by Stingz, April 04 2014 - 06:10 AM.

[Blood_Jester]

I have seen some great predator players, the problem is when I see new guys overestimate the potential of the cloaking ability. What I mean is they stand dead set in front of a doorway thinking "no one can see me" or stand too close to their team mates resulting in stray shots revealing them, or conversely they stray too far from their team so that by the time they do get discovered the team is too far away to help them or they are too far away to help their team.

I do believe the predator needs a buff, but it should be taken with ultmost care, because the predator, the whole idea of the predator, is really really cool, and I think that is what attracts alot of players to the predator. Problem is if they over do it, an entire team can be filled with predators.

The predator is suppose to be a defensive mech so I generally agree with all suggestions in making the mine it lays more viable.

[Dominus_Bellum]

Honestly i'm not sure how the Predator should be changed, but fact is I never see them on top of leader boards. This may be okay because it's a support class. nevertheless, if you almost can't ever win a 1on1 it can start to get annoying. The breacher on shotgun mode just seems to fire too slow, or it doesnt deal enough dmg per shot
.
Maybe the dmg of the first cloaked breacher shot should be upped_
Or exact opposite, a fast firing flak cannon, with a reduced dmg cloaked shot_

Anyway I like the class. But for me it can only prove usefull for defending AA or holding missle silo's.
And yes you will have to camp a bit and create traps, or you'll never be able to score kills.

Once I succeeded a 12/1 k/d ratio. But this was just sad play where I move in and finish someone else's kill over and over.

Edited by Dominus_Bellum, April 05 2014 - 12:12 PM.

[Silverfire]

Flak Breacher has probably one of the highest damage burst potentials out of all the primaries - it does 144 damage with a full hit.  That's more than a TOW or a Grenade from the GL, by the way. I think that's enough to warrant its refire rate.

The problem with the Predator isn't with the Breacher at all. The Breacher already has so much utility; it doesn't need the attention.  My problem is with the EOC-P.  It fires a bit too slow to keep up with increased speeds in the game, I feel.

Honestly, I think if the Predator got a speed buff in walking in cloak and a slight fire rate increase OR a projectile speed increase for the EOC-P, it would go a decent way with making the mech better but still keep its skill ceiling.

[craftydus]

Silverfire, on April 05 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Flak Breacher has probably one of the highest damage burst potentials out of all the primaries - it does 144 damage with a full hit.  That's more than a TOW or a Grenade from the GL, by the way. I think that's enough to warrant its refire rate.

The problem with the Predator isn't with the Breacher at all. The Breacher already has so much utility; it doesn't need the attention.  My problem is with the EOC-P.  It fires a bit too slow to keep up with increased speeds in the game, I feel.

Honestly, I think if the Predator got a speed buff in walking in cloak and a slight fire rate increase OR a projectile speed increase for the EOC-P, it would go a decent way with making the mech better but still keep its skill ceiling.

What do you mean by "keep it's skill ceiling" _

[Silverfire]

craftydus, on April 05 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Silverfire, on April 05 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Flak Breacher has probably one of the highest damage burst potentials out of all the primaries - it does 144 damage with a full hit.  That's more than a TOW or a Grenade from the GL, by the way. I think that's enough to warrant its refire rate.

The problem with the Predator isn't with the Breacher at all. The Breacher already has so much utility; it doesn't need the attention.  My problem is with the EOC-P.  It fires a bit too slow to keep up with increased speeds in the game, I feel.

Honestly, I think if the Predator got a speed buff in walking in cloak and a slight fire rate increase OR a projectile speed increase for the EOC-P, it would go a decent way with making the mech better but still keep its skill ceiling.

What do you mean by "keep it's skill ceiling" _

That the Pred is fairly difficult to use effectively.

But now that I think about it, it's either its higher skill ceiling or just flat out poor design that makes the Pred kinda meh.

Edited by Silverfire, April 05 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[Lightangel112]

I love training with my predator. In DM's I reign supreme. People get surprised by me poking through shields, when played defensively against others or me. You have no idea how gratifying it is, to kill people in this mech. They go wtf just killed me!_ You used pred on me_! You wall hacking bro_ This is getting infuriating!!! No scout stands a chance against me. I take the enemies health down little by little every time without them seeing me. Even in cqc they get wrecked by my flak shots and detonators. Predator should be played, defensively from a distance, taking health down gradually, not allowing the prey to repair or alpha striking when they do, this is when predator should be played aggressively, when at a health advantage. Strike your target!

Edited by Lightangel112, April 05 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Silverfire, on April 05 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

craftydus, on April 05 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Silverfire, on April 05 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Flak Breacher has probably one of the highest damage burst potentials out of all the primaries - it does 144 damage with a full hit.  That's more than a TOW or a Grenade from the GL, by the way. I think that's enough to warrant its refire rate.

The problem with the Predator isn't with the Breacher at all. The Breacher already has so much utility; it doesn't need the attention.  My problem is with the EOC-P.  It fires a bit too slow to keep up with increased speeds in the game, I feel.

Honestly, I think if the Predator got a speed buff in walking in cloak and a slight fire rate increase OR a projectile speed increase for the EOC-P, it would go a decent way with making the mech better but still keep its skill ceiling.

What do you mean by "keep it's skill ceiling" _

That the Pred is fairly difficult to use effectively.

But now that I think about it, it's either its higher skill ceiling or just flat out poor design that makes the Pred kinda meh.

Maybe it's both_  The cloak is rather fragile and it's only good at far distances (unless you have a lock on) and to sneak past enemies who don't pay attention well, however the second part is easier to deal with since you get a wall hack of sorts.  Also the weapons are slow and don't help you much during a 1 on 1 fight unless you completely catch them off guard.  The Predator also has bad heat generation and it builds up rather quickly.  The awkward design and niche use makes it have a high skill ceiling.  It pains me to say that I do better in other mechs, even if I've had Predator the longest out of all my mechs ever since I stepped out of the CRT (not to mention it's my favorite mech).  It truly needs something done about it.

Lightangel112, on April 05 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

I love training with my predator. In DM's I reign supreme. People get surprised by me poking through shields, when played defensively against others or me. You have no idea how gratifying it is, to kill people in this mech. They go wtf just killed me!_ You used pred on me_! You wall hacking bro_ This is getting infuriating!!! No scout stands a chance against me. I take the enemies health down little by little every time without them seeing me. Even in cqc they get wrecked by my flak shots and detonators. Predator should be played, defensively from a distance, taking health down gradually, not allowing the prey to repair or alpha striking when they do, this is when predator should be played aggressively, when at a health advantage. Strike your target!

I've gotten very rusty and I'm very busy nowadays.  Maybe you can help me sharpen up my skills once I'm done being busy_

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, April 05 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[Hellrazer_001]

I just played my first CO-OP Bot Match, thinking I am going to be useless in it, but I was pleasantly surprised, the Pred works well in this Match, and we made it to Level 13, I only died 1 time at the end, when we all got taken out within a few seconds of each other.

[kanamisan]

Hellrazer_001, on April 05 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

I just played my first CO-OP Bot Match, thinking I am going to be useless in it, but I was pleasantly surprised, the Pred works well in this Match, and we made it to Level 13, I only died 1 time at the end, when we all got taken out within a few seconds of each other.

sorry. but I actully dont think that is that good.. with a team of semi competent mech pubs who did not use any counter mesures at all and failed to even basicly comunicate with each other, we still got to level 19 before we died. I was using my incinerator. the other three were using assults. that said, I know that the preditor is really good for co op, however I dont think that getting to level 13 is that hard. the first really hard boss is the brawler at level 15(also the bomb and emp spam) and then at level 20+ it takes alot of skill to survive. not to mention the last two boss waves are very evil. anyway, a friend of mine who plays his pred alot told me how he with one bot a tech and a brawler managed to get to the final boss wave which he ended up beating it solo, (though only the bosses were left) anyway, I bet that if you had a team of players who you could rely on, you get easly get to the 20+zone.

[Hellrazer_001]

@Kanamisan, I don't think you got the point of the post, it was not what level we got too, it was more that I was surprised that on my first Co-op Bot match, which I expected to be on the Bottom of the Scoreboard with the Predator, and be dead a lot,  that I ended up on the top, and only died once, and that I was expecting the Predator to be useless in it , it handled it very well,and that was all it was about.

Was this match you spoke of with your incinerator your first Co-Op match by the way. _

[kanamisan]

Hellrazer_001, on April 05 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

@Kanamisan, I don't think you got the point of the post, it was not what level we got too, it was more that I was surprised that on my first Co-op Bot match, which I expected to be on the Bottom of the Scoreboard with the Predator, and be dead a lot,  that I ended up on the top, and only died once, and that I was expecting the Predator to be useless in it , it handled it very well,and that was all it was about.

Was this match you spoke of with your incinerator your first Co-Op match by the way. _

you fail to see the point I posted, the preditor is really good at co op, so saying that you did well in co op when you really did not is not helping anything. also the ai can not attack stealth mechs intentionally so you basicly have the only get out of jail card free ability, which is why its really good. for a first run, 13 is not bad though. and please dont get augmentative about it. basicly you cant call a nsx good becuase some bloke on there first run of it got a 2:17 at mazda, no, you look at the professional who can prove it can do a 1:44 or faster. so again, all I am saying you that your antidote is meaningless. now practice a few times and get to the last wave and then let us know how much you did. anyway, tldr, your post really did not help anythign.

[mccrorie]

Silverfire, on April 05 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Flak Breacher has probably one of the highest damage burst potentials out of all the primaries - it does 144 damage with a full hit.  That's more than a TOW or a Grenade from the GL, by the way. I think that's enough to warrant its refire rate.

The problem with the Predator isn't with the Breacher at all. The Breacher already has so much utility; it doesn't need the attention.  My problem is with the EOC-P.  It fires a bit too slow to keep up with increased speeds in the game, I feel.

Honestly, I think if the Predator got a speed buff in walking in cloak and a slight fire rate increase OR a projectile speed increase for the EOC-P, it would go a decent way with making the mech better but still keep its skill ceiling.

The Breacher might do 144dmg if you hit a standing target at point blank range.