24 replies to this topic

[Behemoth66]

[font=georgia,serif] let me start off by saying that I'm a Vanguard pilot. I played a few matches with the Infiltrator, and had a bit of trouble since I don't use light mechs very often. Then in the middle of a particularly intense TDM I switched back to my Vanguard and noticed something very odd. People started flinging around equipment like they had to pay for any extras they brought back where they hadn't before. It wasn't something I'd ever noticed before, but they were throwing everything they had at me specifically. Looking back, this has been happening ever since I started playing with the Vanguard. [/font]

[font=georgia,serif] So I have to ask, does the Vanguard scare people_ It seems like if you see two mechs next to one another and one is a Vanguard, people see the Vanguard as the bigger threat no matter what the other mech is.[/font]

[font=georgia,serif]Let's look at some cold hard facts about the Vanguard:[/font]

• [font=georgia,serif]Un-deployed, It has the highest speed of any C-class and can keep up with B-class mechs.[/font]
  
  
• [font=georgia,serif]It has the fastest turret mode of any C-class[/font]
  
  
• [font=georgia,serif]Deployed and from the front its health is 1,096. It's closest competitor is the Brawler at 800 health.[/font]
  
  
• [font=georgia,serif]From the back its health is 548[/font]

[font=georgia,serif]So, a second question I have to ask: is the Vanguard OP_[/font]

[font=georgia,serif] 1v1, I can take on almost any other mech and consistently win the skirmish. Deployed I can take on three or four enemies and consistently come out on top if I don't kill them all. You may argue that you can boost around and shoot me in the back while I'm deployed and beat me right_ Again, 1v1 this doesn't end well for you. Even deployed I can still turn fast enough to counter a Scout trying to hover over my head. I don't know exactly why, but I don't see people trying to boost along the ground to shoot me in the back despite being faster than flying. [/font]
[font=georgia,serif]So please, tell me: Do you think the Vanguard should be nerfed_[/font]

[Umbre]

The Vanguard performs at the level I was hoping all C classes would perform. I think the other C classes need to be brought in line with it.

People probably prioritize you when you use it because you're a larger and more "prominent" target.

Edited by Umbre, August 02 2014 - 11:44 PM.

[Amidatelion]

Behemoth66, on August 02 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

let me start off by saying that I'm a Vanguard pilot. I played a few matches with the Infiltrator, and had a bit of trouble since I don't use light mechs very often. Then in the middle of a particularly intense TDM I switched back to my Vanguard and noticed something very odd. People started flinging around equipment like they had to pay for any extras they brought back where they hadn't before. It wasn't something I'd ever noticed before, but they were throwing everything they had at me specifically. Looking back, this has been happening ever since I started playing with the Vanguard.

So I have to ask, does the Vanguard scare people_ It seems like if you see two mechs next to one another and one is a Vanguard, people see the Vanguard as the bigger threat no matter what the other mech is.

Let's look at some cold hard facts about the Vanguard:
Un-deployed, It has the highest speed of any C-class and can keep up with B-class mechs.

It has the fastest turret mode of any C-class

Deployed and from the front its health is 1,096. It's closest competitor is the Brawler at 800 health.

From the back its health is 548
So, a second question I have to ask: is the Vanguard OP_

1v1, I can take on almost any other mech and consistently win the skirmish. Deployed I can take on three or four enemies and consistently come out on top if I don't kill them all. You may argue that you can boost around and shoot me in the back while I'm deployed and beat me right_ Again, 1v1 this doesn't end well for you. Even deployed I can still turn fast enough to counter a Scout trying to hover over my head. I don't know exactly why, but I don't see people trying to boost along the ground to shoot me in the back despite being faster than flying.
So please, tell me: Do you think the Vanguard should be nerfed_

It's a threat, certainly, but not what people would really consider OP. It sounds like the enemy team (and other players at your MMR) are making the mistake of focusing you. Undeployed, you can get killed just like anyone else. Deployed, their best bet is to ignore you, kill your team, and then mop you up. As fast as you can go, you still lack the mobility of an undeployed mech. Vanguard goes into turret mode_ Ignore it and go kill something else far away from it. This forces it out of turret mode, and suddenly its much easier to kill.

Quite frankly, if you're going into 3v1 situations and coming out on top, the people you're playing against aren't very good or aren't very bright.

In fact, I hate to say it but it sounds like that's the central issue here: unskilled players. If a scout can't get behind you, you're not playing very good scouts. Also, it appears no one has hit you with a grenade lobbed or bounce to hit behind you. Positing it as a 1v1 situation creates an artificial imbalance in favour of the Vanguard, because there is almost no time when you are going to be in that situation, in TDM or DM.

It's like the opposite of Scout complaints. It's real easy to kill a Scout: learn to aim. It's real easy to kill a Vanguard: learn to tactics.

Edited by Amidatelion, August 03 2014 - 01:41 AM.

[SoldierHobbes11]

Vangaurd definitely feels very powerful due to the fact that it's relatively the easiest C class to use. After all, it's basically a heavy assault mech and most people would be fairly familiar with how it plays, assuming they took the time to max out their CRT or Assault. At the lower skill tiers, the Vangaurd definitely is more prominent due to it's ease of use. It's not OP, you've just gotten good at using it. Be happy, dammit.

[Behemoth66]

Amidatelion, on August 03 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Behemoth66, on August 02 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

let me start off by saying that I'm a Vanguard pilot. I played a few matches with the Infiltrator, and had a bit of trouble since I don't use light mechs very often. Then in the middle of a particularly intense TDM I switched back to my Vanguard and noticed something very odd. People started flinging around equipment like they had to pay for any extras they brought back where they hadn't before. It wasn't something I'd ever noticed before, but they were throwing everything they had at me specifically. Looking back, this has been happening ever since I started playing with the Vanguard.

So I have to ask, does the Vanguard scare people_ It seems like if you see two mechs next to one another and one is a Vanguard, people see the Vanguard as the bigger threat no matter what the other mech is.

Let's look at some cold hard facts about the Vanguard:
Un-deployed, It has the highest speed of any C-class and can keep up with B-class mechs.

It has the fastest turret mode of any C-class

Deployed and from the front its health is 1,096. It's closest competitor is the Brawler at 800 health.

From the back its health is 548
So, a second question I have to ask: is the Vanguard OP_

1v1, I can take on almost any other mech and consistently win the skirmish. Deployed I can take on three or four enemies and consistently come out on top if I don't kill them all. You may argue that you can boost around and shoot me in the back while I'm deployed and beat me right_ Again, 1v1 this doesn't end well for you. Even deployed I can still turn fast enough to counter a Scout trying to hover over my head. I don't know exactly why, but I don't see people trying to boost along the ground to shoot me in the back despite being faster than flying.
So please, tell me: Do you think the Vanguard should be nerfed_

It's a threat, certainly, but not what people would really consider OP. It sounds like the enemy team (and other players at your MMR) are making the mistake of focusing you. Undeployed, you can get killed just like anyone else. Deployed, their best bet is to ignore you, kill your team, and then mop you up. As fast as you can go, you still lack the mobility of an undeployed mech. Vanguard goes into turret mode_ Ignore it and go kill something else far away from it. This forces it out of turret mode, and suddenly its much easier to kill.

Quite frankly, if you're going into 3v1 situations and coming out on top, the people you're playing against aren't very good or aren't very bright.

In fact, I hate to say it but it sounds like that's the central issue here: unskilled players. If a scout can't get behind you, you're not playing very good scouts. Also, it appears no one has hit you with a grenade lobbed or bounce to hit behind you. Positing it as a 1v1 situation creates an artificial imbalance in favour of the Vanguard, because there is almost no time when you are going to be in that situation, in TDM or DM.

It's like the opposite of Scout complaints. It's real easy to kill a Scout: learn to aim. It's real easy to kill a Vanguard: learn to tactics.

[font=georgia,serif]It's not like they don't try and shoot my back with secondary weapons. However they can't beat me one on one and run away with about fifty health left, which is infuriating. [/font]

[font=georgia,serif]In this particular match, I chose a lower end server to use the Infiltrator and learn it a bit, however even when I get a good match I can still take on an entire team if they don't flank me for whatever reason.[/font]

[TwentyFirstPilot]

As a Predator pilot, I have no special fear of the Vanguard. If you're deployed-- even better. From my infa-red perspective, that only makes you more vulnerable.

[Meraple]

I'll blitz all over your face.

[IronClamp]

Vanguard_ OP_ What_ Your dealing with complete morons in the battlefield, and I've seen that enough. I play Reap, and any C-class is meat for me, especially since the Reap's low rate of fire make flying deadly.

[Z3roCool007]

OP_ I just nuke them from behind with grenades

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

You're all calling the Manguard wrong!  It's the most manliest mech out there!  All people who are scared are pansies!   (Wait, I'm scared of Manguard...!)

In all seriousness, it's a pretty strong easy to use mech.  Though, not as easy as an out of the box recruit or an assault.  It's strengths go well with a lot of maps, which is why it's one of the more versatile c classes.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, August 03 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on August 03 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

You're all calling the Manguard wrong!  It's the most manliest mech out there!  All people who are scared are pansies!   (Wait, I'm scared of Manguard...!)

In all seriousness, it's a pretty strong easy to use mech.  Though, not as easy as an out of the box recruit or an assault.  It's strengths go well with a lot of maps, which is why it's one of the more versatile c classes.

I will eat your Manguard with butter and a dollop of horseradish.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

TwentyFirstPilot, on August 03 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on August 03 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

You're all calling the Manguard wrong!  It's the most manliest mech out there!  All people who are scared are pansies!   (Wait, I'm scared of Manguard...!)

In all seriousness, it's a pretty strong easy to use mech.  Though, not as easy as an out of the box recruit or an assault.  It's strengths go well with a lot of maps, which is why it's one of the more versatile c classes.

I will eat your Manguard with butter and a dollop of horseradish.

I'm not a very good pilot anyway, just slightly above average in piloting skills.   However, I do know how things like tactics/balance and other stuff is like through observing other people's gameplay who are better than me.  My reflexes suck, aim is bad, but I do know how to work in a team.   Manguard is a great mech for pushing the frontlines.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, August 03 2014 - 01:49 PM.

[nepacaka]

Quote

So, a second question I have to ask: is the Vanguard OP_

on some map (like lostEco)... in some places (like open place)... Vanguard in turret mode can divide by zero many mechs. because DPS.
for example, brawler with SA can't kill Vanguard in TM. Brawler just don't have a firepower to damage his armor, even if brawler don't die in this duel, he overheated before he can kill Vanguard. no chance to win.

but this situation is reversed on Origin, where Vanguard turret mode will be almost useless. so...Vanguard OP sometimes

Edited by nepacaka, August 03 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Bazookagofer]

Dang OP I love the font you used...

[Flifang]

I think the main reason why the vanguard is not taken lightly by an enemy is because it's capable of corner play that rivals a classes and on even footing a good vanguard will outlive them. It's an amazingly versatile mech, unfortunately haven't had much luck with it unless another, far more threatening player is on my team because I get insta focused on. I did however manage to get my highest multi kill so far with miniflak vanguard. it was 7 on tdm.

it's one of my favorite mechs so far, but...
those damn turtlers

[MomOw]

I found myself having issues with vanguard mainly because undeployed your just a assault that is easier to hit, and deployed you gotta watch your back twice. By the way it's turret mode is really usefull.

I find easier to use a vulcan brawler even though it's slower (as I almost never use the brawler turret mode, he's as fast as the vanguard turret :-) )

[nokari]

It's not OP and no, it doesn't scare me.

[IronClamp]

^ sense. Common sense.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

ill show you how useless manguard turret isps its not op but when i see one i keep one eye on it till i see if hes skilled or not cause if he is its a beast

Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, August 05 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[Behemoth66]

MechFighter5e3bf9, on August 05 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

ill show you how useless manguard turret isps its not op but when i see one i keep one eye on it till i see if hes skilled or not cause if he is its a beast

An excellent example.