137 replies to this topic

[Zycon]

Basically, when you're not always refactoring and updating your code and framework on a continual basis, you can get this technical debt (but there are also other reasons). To put it even more basic, they didn't predict their future needs.

Would it cause them to be silent_ If it was JUST this, no most definitely not. Re-writing old code and building new frameworks is nothing worth being silent over infact, you could use this to generate hype for an awesome update (unless you were afraid it would fail or they weren't sure if they could complete the changes). As you can see he mentioned "as a company", so it's probably more than just Hawken.

Edited by Zycon, September 14 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[I2DI]

Finally. Thread with reliable info and resonable people discussing what actually is going on. Is thid a miracle i'm witnessing right now_
This thread should have appeared months ago. You have my gratitude.

[Draigun]

It is a great post OP, until you started pulling the conspiracy card. You're all getting to the point where you are creating theories based on incredible sources that undermine the reasoning behind this centralized post about the technical debt issue.

The Chinese paying big money to oversee a game for a populace that doesn't even have their human rights respected, let alone probably be able to even play_ You've got to be kidding.

Instead of jumping on the "5 percent chance means it will happen" bandwagon, be rational with the facts presented.

Edited by Draigun, September 15 2014 - 01:09 AM.

[SS396]

Draigun, on September 15 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

The Chinese paying big money to oversee a game for a populace that doesn't even have their human rights respected, let alone probably be able to even play_ You've got to be kidding.

o.O

I guess that TenCent never bought Riot Games for 400 million dollars and this was all just a figment of everyones imagination_
http://allthingsd.co...or-400-million/

ok.ok.  After todays altercation, I can see how that comment can come across as a bit crass, so how about this.

The chinese bought a license to operate Hawken, they'd run their own copy of everything, it would be completely separate from us.  Own login servers, own game servers, own clients.  They'd in Hawken space terms would be in a parallel Hawken universe and unable to interact with our universe.

Edited by SS396, September 15 2014 - 02:06 AM.

[EliteShooter]

PARALLEL UNIVERSESSSSSS!!! I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT THEORY!! LET THE FIGHT BEGIIIIIIIIN!!!

[Zycon]

We almost had a good topic....


Almost.

Then EliteShooter ruined it.

Edited by Zycon, September 15 2014 - 05:20 AM.

[BurnsHot]

SS396, on September 14 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

BurnsHot, on September 14 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

If you know something just come out and tell us already.  

The Chinese apparently bought the license for $18 million dollars.  Maybe they are calling the shots now and we know the China will tell you to pound sand all day long.  Do they suffer from too many cooks in the kitchen_

http://www.polygon.c...ound-of-funding

I can't, I wish that I could but I can't.  

You said "different bosses" and I will give you a hint on what I think and its only one single boss thats controlling things and forcing the others to remain quiet.  You've got the companies listed, you just haven't pointed the finger at the big fish yet.  I also don't know the exact reason for why, I've come to what I think could be a reason why, but again, I have no evidence on a reason.

The chinese license is completely separate from the investment funding.  The money they raised from venture capitalists Benchmark and Rustic Canyon are not related to it.

I2DI, on September 14 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

Finally. Thread with reliable info and resonable people discussing what actually is going on.

Draigun, on September 15 2014 - 01:08 AM, said:

It is a great post OP, until you started pulling the conspiracy card.

I laid out the facts and didn't make any real conclusion in the OP.  I gave players a chance to read it and respond.  Not that many have responded yet. Maybe I didn't wait long enough_

My comment about the Chinese was more of a conversation starter.

I fully understand that they bought a License to Hawken for inside China and it shouldn't affect the rest of us, but on the off chance that they are the ones with New Capital and ADH or Meteor had to sell their soul to get it.  I said what I said.

I'm still waiting for that someone lurking the forums that can connect the dots.  Someone here knows the bigger picture.

@SS396  Does your theory have anything to with what happened with Firefall_  I'll just leave it at that.

Edited by BurnsHot, September 15 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[DerMax]

I find this article particularly interesting:

http://venturebeat.c...nch-draws-near/

Especially this bit:

Quote

“A year ago, we didn’t even know if this was going to work,” Long said. “Trying to run dedicated servers on an Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon’s data center outsourcing service) was something nobody had tried before. Early on, we tested it to see if it would work. As we move into it, it works better than we could have hoped for” as it can handle 10,000 players in simultaneous gaming without any hiccups. The latency, or delays in interaction, is so low that the service quality is good in beta testing, Long said. That saves a lot of money on data center costs, he said.

So it seems like Mark Long was quite excited about AWS. Thus the whole infrastructure had been built around AWS, and remaking it from the ground up proved to be overwhelmingly time-consuming and expensive. Too expensive in fact, and so they had to move the MTR office in order to cut expenses and fit into the budget. (This all, of course, is pure speculation.)

A more alarming fact is this:

Two big Hawken things failed: Hawken the Movie and destructible environment maps. It would be worthwhile to try and figure the reasons behind these two mishaps.

Edited by DerMax, September 15 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Skitzo1d]

I wish that movie would of panned out, it looked good in the previews.

[shosca]

DerMax, on September 15 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

A more alarming fact is this:

Two big Hawken things failed: Hawken the Movie and destructible environment maps. It would be worthwhile to try and figure the reasons behind these two mishaps.

I don't find these alarming at all. I wouldn't even call them big. Movie failed, so what, have you seen the movies based on other games_ They all sucked. As for destructible environments, it depended on propriety software that not everyone was able to run efficiently or didn't/couldn't run at all, that is like cutting your market share in half.

Edited by shosca, September 15 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[DerMax]

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

I don't find these alarming at all. I wouldn't even call them big. Movie failed, so what, have you seen the movies based on other games_ They all sucked.

Do you mean that the Hawken movie actually came out_ Because there's a big difference between a bad movie and an unreleased one.

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

As for destructible environments, it depended on propriety software that not everyone was able to run efficiently or didn't/couldn't run at all, that is like cutting your market share in half.

Could you please elaborate_

[AsianJoyKiller]

Skitzo1d, on September 15 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

I wish that movie would of panned out, it looked good in the previews.

A lot of movies look good in the previews. :S

Given the quality of writing in the comics, which was not stellar, I'm not convinced the movie would have been all that great. I mean, it'd be a neat piece for the die-hard fans, but probably would have generally felt like a SyFy direct to DVD special in the end.

[shosca]

DerMax, on September 15 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

I don't find these alarming at all. I wouldn't even call them big. Movie failed, so what, have you seen the movies based on other games_ They all sucked.

Do you mean that the Hawken movie actually came out_ Because there's a big difference between a bad movie and an unreleased one.

I guess, the movie would most probably have sucked but it could've brought in new players. Bad publicity is still good publicity I still do not see it as a big item tho.

DerMax, on September 15 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

As for destructible environments, it depended on propriety software that not everyone was able to run efficiently or didn't/couldn't run at all, that is like cutting your market share in half.

Could you please elaborate_

Because NVIDIA

Edited by shosca, September 15 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[DerMax]

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Because NVIDIA

Is this a fact or speculation_

[Skitzo1d]

AsianJoyKiller, on September 15 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Skitzo1d, on September 15 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

I wish that movie would of panned out, it looked good in the previews.

A lot of movies look good in the previews. :S

Given the quality of writing in the comics, which was not stellar, I'm not convinced the movie would have been all that great. I mean, it'd be a neat piece for the die-hard fans, but probably would have generally felt like a SyFy direct to DVD special in the end.

Not saying everyone would of liked it or nothing.  Simply stating that I would of liked to see it is all.

[shosca]

DerMax, on September 15 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Because NVIDIA

Is this a fact or speculation_

Fact. https://developer.nv...pex-destruction

[Sylhiri]

DerMax, on September 15 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Two big Hawken things failed: Hawken the Movie and destructible environment maps. It would be worthwhile to try and figure the reasons behind these two mishaps.

There was mention of a show as well. I would say they bit off more then they can chew, they had these things in planning (the movie at least) before the game was even out. If I had to guess, the plan was to have these things advertise the game but in the end it didn't pan out well.

[SS396]

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

DerMax, on September 15 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

shosca, on September 15 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Because NVIDIA

Is this a fact or speculation_

Fact. https://developer.nv...pex-destruction

It was my understanding that it wouldn't be nvidia only, it would run on all graphics platforms.  It's just a little bit of extra math functions.

Either way it was only an addition to the game not something needed in its foundation to hold up the rest of the building.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

AsianJoyKiller, on September 15 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

...would have generally felt like a SyFy direct to DVD special in the end.

HAWKENado!

[StubbornPuppet]

I would agree that part of the technical debt is that Adhesive seemed to continuously have to remove physics and graphic features to get to a point where the multiplayer synchronization worked well.  Over the course of each update, I noticed that for each improvement in connectivity and lag, there was some bit of graphics effect, etc. removed.  ie: destrucable structures, weapon tracers, boost-jet trails, fog/haze, particle fx and lighting halos.

If they spent a ton of time on those items... and they eventually had to be removed to improve performance... that would be a form of technical debt as well.