125 replies to this topic

[Sparkard]

Turic, on November 21 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

"level1 -20 spread".

Interesting, i thought it'd work that way, but wasn't there no bonus for weap lvls in cbe2_ Didn't dig that then because idk, didn't really have to. And most topic on forums said there was no bonus for weap lvls anyway.

Edited by Sparkard, November 21 2012 - 03:45 AM.

[Cpt_Hadriel]

Played since alpha 1 and i must say this just makes SS class suck... i played it for 2 hours thinking i sudenly got a streak of horible luck... so i switched to other class and every time i see a SS mech enemy i rip them apart coz i know how much they suck now... before this nerf i was realy enjoying SS...
Anyway, the damage nef was unnessesary and so was the accuracy nerf. To me the idea of a long range suport mech is not a spray and pray medium armored, it is more along the lines of large damage, slow fire rate and med armor/speed... anyone who has been to army knows the role of a sharpshooter. And this is not it. so untill you fix it you may as well remove it from the game so people dont rage over it.

oo yeah return it the way it was ffs!

[0siris]

Yeah I have to agree the SS got nerfed too much this round.  Some balancing might have been in order, I enjoyed using this mech previously, but it is nigh useless now.   The sabot really needs to be hit scan.  It didn't really feel OP in the last event, and SHARPshooters SHOULD be more accurate, hence the name.

[defekt]

Previously the SS could front-load way too much damage at all ranges with no drop-off whatsoever.  It had the lowest DPS but when you can accurately lash out 100% of your damage, at any range, DPS stats became irrelevant.  Something needed to be addressed; it was the veritable finger of God.  To my mind all that needed to be done was Sabot needed a damage reduction or to not be a hitscan weapon (thusly not undoing the mantra that if you stand still vs a Sniper you're a dead mech).  An accuracy nerf wasn't needed IMHO.

Do also bare in mind that reduced B/C speeds in some ways counteracts a loss of weapon accuracy.  Whether or not the accuracy reduction is in proportion with the target speed reduction remains to be tested by someone who plays SS, i.e., not me.

Edited by defekt, November 21 2012 - 06:01 AM.

[MK501]

defekt, on November 21 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Previously the SS could front-load way too much damage at all ranges with no drop-off whatsoever.  It had the lowest DPS but when you can accurately lash out 100% of your damage, at any range, DPS stats became irrelevant.  Something needed to be addressed; it was the veritable finger of God.  To my mind all that needed to be done was Sabot needed a damage reduction or to not be a hitscan weapon (thusly not undoing the mantra that if you stand still vs a Sniper you're a dead mech).  An accuracy nerf wasn't needed IMHO.

Do also bare in mind that reduced B/C speeds in some ways counteracts a loss of weapon accuracy.  Whether or not the accuracy reduction is in proportion with the target speed reduction remains to be tested by someone who plays SS, i.e., not me.

^this

[Timber_Wolf]

Hawkins has a DPS of 79.2, Slug rifle has 84.5, AR has 75.2, SMC has 87 in this current build and the sabot rifle does 160/shot for a DPS of 32.
If you land every shot against an assault and are able to dodge TOW, you'll kill them.  If you're losing in 1v1 CQC combat, it's because you're bad.  SS isn't SUPPOSED to 1v1 easily and it's still doable.  Numbers don't lie.

EDIT:  The weapons also put out more than enough damage before overheating to kill them.

Edited by Timber_Wolf, November 21 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Vitinary]

I have to agree.
Maybe SS needed a bit of a nerf - it felt kinda too powerful, having at least equal chances against any mech on any range during Alpha and CB.
But this is just too much.
P.S. Am I the only one here, who actually does like Hawkins_
Shame it was nerfed too.

[Timber_Wolf]

Vitinary, on November 21 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

I have to agree.
Maybe SS needed a bit of a nerf - it felt kinda too powerful, having at least equal chances against any mech on any range during Alpha and CB.
But this is just too much.
P.S. Am I the only one here, who actually does like Hawkins_
Shame it was nerfed too.

The hawkins is beautiful, but I'm pretty sure it was buffed, not nerfed.  It should do more damage before overheating than the slug now, but with a slightly lower DPS.

[Vitinary]

Timber_Wolf, on November 21 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

The hawkins is beautiful, but I'm pretty sure it was buffed, not nerfed.  It should do more damage before overheating than the slug now, but with a slightly lower DPS.

I dunno. It seems like it's doing more damage with less fire rate and more heat buildup. Not sure about accuracy.
But maybe I'm just mistaken.

[Eis9_M0th]

I guess I can't quote posts from my phone, but it seems a little unfair for Timber_Wolf to use numbers that depend on one pilot missing and the other pilot hitting with every shot, especially now that sabot is no longer a hit-scan weapon.

[TerranCmdr]

I can tell you almost certainly that the Hawkins' fire rate was pretty severely reduced.

My mech of choice since A2 has been sharpshooter with SA Hawkins.  Could nail people at long range with the Sabot and trickle down their health with the Hawkins, and if things need to get nasty up close, the Hawkins had my back, and I could even no-scope a shot or two to.  Now with the accuracy reduction and Hawkins' rate of fire, I can't even use it.  I switched over to the other primary weapon, the single-fire, I don't even know what it's called.  Seems to work a hell of a lot better than the Hawkins though.  Still, it's impossible to hit anyone with the Sabot unless you're completely stationary.  I'll have to give it a couple more days to see if I can adjust my playstyle to fit this new mech, but honestly I was very frustrated last night because I started out with Assault (Store bug was still happening), had two games where I dominated the leaderboard.  Then when I switched to Sharpshooter the only award I got was most deaths.  I think the most kills in one game I had with SS was a measly 4.

So the mech definitely feels different, and like I said I'll have to wait and see if it just completely sucks now or if I can adjust my playstyle to fit, but I do believe the nerf on the Sabot was a bit much.  I nailed a B-Class with the sabot, with the damage increase on, and it took down less than half of their health.  Just sayin'.

Edited by TerranCmdr, November 21 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[RedVan]

The way the SS worked in CBE2 was that a legitimately good player could successfully use the SS close and mid range.  That is why you saw very few SS with good KD.  That is the way a mech should work.

CBE3, a good SS stands a very little chance close and mid range.  That is what would be considered broken.

[Sparkard]

@Timber_Wolf:
Please get your facts straight, for e.g. read what #Eis9_M0th wrote.

Now to the topic:
I've verified accuracy on zoom, and it's not hitscan when zoomed, better than scoped out but still.

Now the interesting point - bullet trails have nothing to do with where bullet hit. (!)

Now let's analyze this pic:


I found a campfy sniper position with a "good" ( ) view.
What we can se:
An enemy, slithgtly to the left of my cursor.
Enemy's MG turret, where my croshair's pointing.
A rocket, i think it's hard to miss . (it's not a friendly rocket, needless to say )

His turret can hit me. But that's not a problem atm, just a distraction.
His rocket can hit me (they fly in kinda "circular" way, that rocket is in fact, heading straight into my face.
An interesting thing is that some of those rocket exploded before making contact.

My sabot will hit a C-class mech standing still (repairing) at position of the enemy that you see above and sometimes every third shot hit and sometimes every third shot misses, so i'd say 50% accuracy ( the fact that bullet trails seem to go in random directions doesn't help ).
When it comes to SA Hawkins - 1/5 of shots connect. (keep in mind that i'm talking about shooting when zoomed! )
(EDIT:// it's not much different for slug riffle)

Now... his riffle's accuracy ( when it comes to primary weapon dps, and we're not including rockets etc!) is about the same as mine.
The difference is that - he can just spray his weapon in my direction (even vulcan with it's atm horrible accuracy will suffice ) - and i need him to stand still.

So, what do you think_ Please discuss.
Also remember fellow sharpshooters, bullet trails are "FAKE".

Edited by Sparkard, November 21 2012 - 08:39 AM.

[TerranCmdr]

^Pretty much my experience.  Hawkins is useless, Sabot needs you to stand still to hit anything.  The thing that kills me is that my tactic of dodging out of cover and firing a quick scoped shot no longer works, as you need to be completely stationary to hit anything smaller than a building.

Did I mention that the SS heats up way quicker now as well_

[Sparkard]

Try rocketeer, it's my new favourite sharpshooter, or whatever. http://community.pla...9987-rocketeer/

[recruit2012]

That weapon is for sniping. It should be high damage, low fire rate and mid heat rate

[Talesin]

Playing since A2 (as I suppose we need to say that for 'cred'_). Sharpshooter and *REDACTED* were my usual two mechs.
I'd have to agree that the recent heavy-handed nerf has pretty much rendered the SS useless at this point. The Slug does about as much damage as burping at them (when it even hits), and the Sabot tracking is simply ridiculous given the (relatively low) amount of damage it actually does.

I get the feeling this is some Dev feeling hurt that everyone hated and never used the SA Hawkins, and throwing a tantrum instead.
Truly pointless to play as of this build.

Previously, going toe-to-toe even starting at long range was a challenge to score the kill against an Assault before overheating, not missing a single shot. Now_ No chance. You'd do better throwing cotton-balls or kittens. I realize that it's still in testing and prone to change, but hopefully the Devs will realize they really, deeply screwed the pooch on this one and put it back the way it was before.

[Beemann]

defekt, on November 21 2012 - 06:00 AM, said:

Previously the SS could front-load way too much damage at all ranges with no drop-off whatsoever.  It had the lowest DPS but when you can accurately lash out 100% of your damage, at any range, DPS stats became irrelevant.  Something needed to be addressed; it was the veritable finger of God.  To my mind all that needed to be done was Sabot needed a damage reduction or to not be a hitscan weapon (thusly not undoing the mantra that if you stand still vs a Sniper you're a dead mech).  An accuracy nerf wasn't needed IMHO.

Except a HEAT+GL Infil actually had more burst AND DPS, as did a HEAT/EOC and Hellfire Rocketeer
The Sabot has one of the longest recharge times in the game, and the slug did about as much damage as an uncharged HEAT cannon. It's hardly as powerful as you're suggesting
Range isn't really valid when the maps are so claustrophobic. Either of the side objectives on Titan, the AA on both maps and the uphill approach on Sahara don't make for good long-range sniping positions, and even on the low side of Sahara there's plenty of cover

Edited by Beemann, November 21 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[Dark_Horse]

Awwww man! As a mostly (almost 100% of the time) SS player, I'm pretty bummed about this nerf. My biggest problem is that it seems to undo the differences between the SS and other medium mechs: their roles have all sorta blended together.

I considered the SS to be a sniper class (I mean, that's what the name implies, isn't it_). That means it's weapons should be fairly slow, but hit hard and have super-high accuracy. The "balance" comes from the maps, not the weapons: master dodge, master cover, and snipers will never be a problem. Playing a sniper requires patience, skill, and maybe a bit of stealth (don't stand in the open, fuzzy bunny). The point is to hang back, stay quiet, and hit 'em where it hurts when they least expect it.

But with these nerfs, the SS has been reduced to a fairly typical medium-ranged shooter. It's been downgraded from, say, a Barett 50 cal, to an M16. That doesn't mean that it's worse by any means or less powerful, it just means that it doesn't feel like a sniper class anymore.

Fixes_ Well, here's something that I've learned playing FPSs and online games for a decade:

Increasing or decreasing damage is not fixing the problem.

[Zer0Aim]

i think to nerf ss was necessary but they nerfed it a bit too hard.
i dont want prenerf ss again (for real it was a bit op no disscussion) but in his current state he doesnt fit any roll on the battlefield.
a new sharpshooter combined out of the old and new one could make a really fun and balanced class in my opinion.