125 replies to this topic

[Shatzi]

Why would you nerf Sharpshooter_ This Mech was PERFECT.But you guys decided to nerf it becouse of some noobs screaming around that cant play or cant counter it_ The nerf broke this sweet Mech. Its not even a nerf Its a execution for such a great machine.

[SamSlade]

Talesin, on November 21 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Then again, it's not the kind of mindless run-and-gun CoD-kiddie nonsense that makes up a large segment of the FPS playerbase nowadays. Actually requires a little tactical thinking, instead of W+M1+M2.

hehehe... yes the incredible Chase like Seagull and Run Around Behind Him tactics.... inspired stuff.

Seriously though, the SS has been overnerfed.. regenerating items and high RoF and AoE seeking/tracking weapons everywhere mean there is no real role for them.  With the absurd requirements on the sabot it should be doing well over 50% damage on target at a minmum.

[defekt]

IMHO, making the Sabot (and maybe the Slug) non-hitscan, like the HEAT cannon on full charge (but obviously without the need to charge), was probably all that needed doing, i.e., increasing the skill cap.  As it was it was far too effective for the skill required to use it.

Snipers need to learn how to lead their targets and once that skill is acquired the reward would be being able to lay down large amounts of entirely front-loaded damage at any range; that skill requirement will in itself enforce a self-correcting measure as far as the number of people wanting to snipe goes because not everyone can lead small, fast-moving targets at range whereas in CB1&2 all that was needed was to point-click-kill - a trained monkey could do that.

Anyway, my C-class Brawler is now slower than the speed of dark and I keep getting pegged by SS’s for miles around.  I’ve adapted to my out-of-the-blue speed loss, SS players need to similarly adapt (accepting that the initial CB3 nerf was over the top).

[bacon_avenger]

I did some more rounds tonight in my sharpie, and while it's not like it was in earlier rounds, true to my initial impression, it's a lot better than it was.  It still stinks more at CQC (or I just do, more than likely a bit from column A and than it used to, but it's not totally trashed either.  The lack of hitscan definitely makes it trickier to use, especially at a distance against a light mech.

I do question the apparent need to make it non-hitscan.  If the other bullet-based weapons are hitscan, then why not the slug as well (I believe it's not hitscan any longer along with the sabot, correct_).

The slug never was that accurate unscoped.  Now it puts players at even more of a disadvantage when being closed in on.

[defekt]

The Slug not being hitscan is a tricky one, it's a borderline kind of weapon.  The Sabot definitely needed to be non-hitscan but the Slug... I dunno, I'm 60:40 in favour of non-hitscan.

I suppose the intent is to create two distinct forms of SS and [REDACTED]: one that is entirely front-loaded damage, non-hitscan  with a pretty high damage effect over any range commensurate with a pretty high skill cap (Sabot/Slug); and a slightly more CQB-capable/'easier' version with a mix of hitscan and non-hitscan weaponry (Sabot/SA).

[Rotaken]

The_Eldritch_Abomination, on November 22 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

That is SO true. Before the nerf, the game reminded me of Blacklight: Retribution, with random players trying to use the Bolt-Action rifle, a SNIPER weapon, at close range. Its a bloody mess.

Lulz, I'm totally not doing that in BL:R

[RedVan]

Ya, finally got to check it out yesterday.  Feels MUCH better.  Still not as good as I'd like, but then, I'd like CBE2 values because those were not OP.

Problem with SS is people will cry OP no matter what they do to it.  I was playing vs someone in a DM yesterday and he was bitching at me for using SS:  "all you do is ks", "SS is so easy" etc etc....

So I told him to use SS and prove to me how easy it is.  He wouldn't.  So I switched to assault, which is leaps and bounds easier than SS will ever be, destroyed him numerous times, switched back to SS so he would actually stand a chance vs me, then he rage quit lol

All in all, CBE2 values were perfect for the SS.  Would be nice to get those back, but the current isn't too bad.

[N0stalgia]

In my opinion, the Sharpshooter is a broken class at the moment. I refute the suggestion that the sharpshooter should be a 'long range sniper'. The sharpshooter should be a killing machine, just like the rest of the mechs. As it stands now, long range combat is RARE at best and camping is not really an option in this game. And god bless it for that.

The damage is LOW with both the Sabot and slug. A direct zoomed hit with both weapons simultaneously does about 30% damage to the enemy whereas a direct hit with both grenade and heat cannon from an infiltrator does much, much more.

I feel that the slug should still be hitscan - im okay with it doing less damage and less heat, but it should be a click to pop gun. The sabot however, should have drastically increased damage and non-hitscan. That's just my 2 cents. I used to love this mech, now its stupid to go in as one.

[RedVan]

N0stalgia, on November 24 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

In my opinion, the Sharpshooter is a broken class at the moment. I refute the suggestion that the sharpshooter should be a 'long range sniper'. The sharpshooter should be a killing machine, just like the rest of the mechs. As it stands now, long range combat is RARE at best and camping is not really an option in this game. And god bless it for that.

The damage is LOW with both the Sabot and slug. A direct zoomed hit with both weapons simultaneously does about 30% damage to the enemy whereas a direct hit with both grenade and heat cannon from an infiltrator does much, much more.

I feel that the slug should still be hitscan - im okay with it doing less damage and less heat, but it should be a click to pop gun. The sabot however, should have drastically increased damage and non-hitscan. That's just my 2 cents. I used to love this mech, now its stupid to go in as one.

This is true, the inf does ridiculous amounts of damage considering it's a class A mech.

And yes, that is a good thing that we don't have camping snipers in hawken.  It's pretty funny because you'll notice two arguments from the anti SS camp:
1.  It's a campy ks class
2.  It shouldn't be able to be used close range, it should be a "sniper"

Kinda contradictory imo.  Only goes to show that it really was balanced in CBE2

[bacon_avenger]

I was thinking more on this in regards to the sharpie and it's weapons, especially the slug and sabot, and the problem with the way it is now, and had this thought...

The slug/sabot are weapons of opportunity.  They are best used to get that one last hit in as an enemy dashes between two points of cover, or just before they turn around a corner.

I would argue that it took a fair amount of skill to be able to notice the enemy marker on screen, be able to scope in to the right point where the pilot has LoS (which quite often is a very narrow section of the map), and be able to make an accurate shot in that split second before that LoS is lost.

I can't remember the number of times this exact thing happened to me.  I saw the enemy marker box, zoomed and aimed into a very narrow space, and was able to get a hit (or make a kill) only because I had a shot for a very small amount of time.  Now with the weapons not being hitscan, it makes this that much harder, if not impossible.

I'm all for balancing the weapons and making it a good mech for those who are skilled, but I do wonder if these last changes may have made the skill requirements to be effective a bit too high...

Feel free to debate and point out the flaws, that's what we as beta testers are here for, to discuss balance and such.

[ReachH]

I still get 20/2 k/d. Sniper still abuses corners like a boss. Still kill steals like a boss. The only difference now is that if you want to go against a rocketeer close combat, you have to find a corner to reduce splash, turn on your damage buff and not miss a shot. Then you might win with a little help from your heal (which now has a cooldown timer yay!).

This is definitely a L2p issue and a QQ whine that should be ignored in its absolute entirety, and with utmost prejudice.

On the flip side, I now feel that the mobility upgrades are of greater importance - and that the class is more balanced.

Also I didn't even notice the slug rifle is no longer hit scan, until I read it just now. Go figure.

Edited by ReachH, November 24 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[SamSlade]

ReachH, on November 24 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

I still get 20/2 k/d...  like a boss.  you might win with a little help

This is definitely a L2p issue. Go figure.

Edited to say what you mean... a.k.a.: I have leet skillz and love farming new players... go figure.

Back in the world of reality, the SS is still overnerfed.

[ReachH]

SamSlade, on November 25 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

ReachH, on November 24 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

I still get 20/2 k/d...  like a boss.  you might win with a little help

This is definitely a L2p issue. Go figure.

Edited to say what you mean... a.k.a.: I have leet skillz and love farming new players... go figure.

Back in the world of reality, the SS is still overnerfed.

Wipe those gentle tears from thine eyes, o gentle noob - for the Sharpshooter is still the only class who does guaranteed burst damage while kiting behind cover.

The only.

Class.

Only.

Now if our fellow SS players were to say 'hey you know what_ I'm really worried that the SS is no longer competitive against the best players - here is why...', that would be an entirely different thing. Instead we have TurboWhining from players who feel that - for the sole reason - that their mech cannot mindlessly slap around every other class, that must have been wronged. "ZOMGGG SLUG RIFLE TWEAK, BAWWWWWW" is the sound that rises up from these zealous individuals.

I would appreciate it if you did not alter my words, because you kind sir, are rather transparently wrong.

Now before you get your panties up in a bunch, puff up your face, and proclaim 'how dare this anonymous online bastard dare question my opinion in such daring fashion_!', I would ask that you remain focused on the only thing you should take away from this:

"the Sharpshooter is still the only class who does guaranteed burst damage while kiting behind cover"

Now you have my blessing to post your short quip feigning how little you are angered, and thus, care - because you are cool like that.

Rockets can be dodged, continuous damage weapons can be hidden from, a slug-sabot volley is not liable to either. So now the SS still does what it did best, but is not easily abusable. Because lets face it, there were soooo many SS in CB1, and it was far too easy to dominate - for anyone.

[SamSlade]

eh...

The Sharpshooter needs to appeal beyond a 'whole team' or clan war setting... burst damage is nice, sustained DPS and tracking around corners are nicer.

I would think the idea is that the Sharpshooter be playable in pick up games as well as intense team games.  If it's not then this will fast become World of Lock On weapons outside of clan wars.  I'm not a very good player, I don't hit enough or get all the kills or whatever in simple FPS.  However, I can tell you that the fickle and nasty game communities out there don't like to see an easy button... right now there are too many easy buttons replacing the 'leet skillz' mechs like the Sharpshooter.  They need a balance... perhaps a little more walking speed and a faster cool down on the special ability_

With spammable items and quick healing the burst damage argument falls flat in favor of speed, weapon tracking and sustained DPS. There's some more logic(sic) for the pile...

[defekt]

SamSlade, on November 25 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

The Sharpshooter needs to appeal beyond a 'whole team' or clan war setting...

Does it_  I don't see a problem with Hawken including specialist mechines (and weapons, and gear) in its roster.  (As it happens, I hope to see more!)  I expect most players will end up with certain machines that they like to use for specific game modes on specific maps; this is an entirely natural process of selection so I see no reason why this shouldn't be reflected in mech concept design.

[ReachH]

SamSlade, on November 25 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

eh...

The Sharpshooter needs to appeal beyond a 'whole team' or clan war setting... burst damage is nice, sustained DPS and tracking around corners are nicer.

I would think the idea is that the Sharpshooter be playable in pick up games as well as intense team games.  If it's not then this will fast become World of Lock On weapons outside of clan wars.  I'm not a very good player, I don't hit enough or get all the kills or whatever in simple FPS.  However, I can tell you that the fickle and nasty game communities out there don't like to see an easy button... right now there are too many easy buttons replacing the 'leet skillz' mechs like the Sharpshooter.  They need a balance... perhaps a little more walking speed and a faster cool down on the special ability_

With spammable items and quick healing the burst damage argument falls flat in favor of speed, weapon tracking and sustained DPS. There's some more logic(sic) for the pile...

I have noticed that hectic DeathMatches are a lot more difficult. But I don't know if this is before I got used to the new nerf - it is rare to find a busy DM server. I will say that the changes have forced me to use the damage buff ability, which I largely neglected before. Also the item cooldown plays into the SS class' hands because you are normally the one who decides if and when a fight takes place.

More than ever now, if you are caught with your pants down inbetween two people, you are dead. Most likely because of the extra dps being thrown around in CB3 games, and your reduced threat for dealing damage while retreating (again not an issue if your damage buff is available).

But lets be honest, it was too easy before. There were so many SS. It was literally a pick-up-and-dominate class.

[N0stalgia]

And now it's literally a facepalm class. And your belief that the SS is the only mech that does guaranteed burst damage while kiting behind cover is laughable. Infiltrators can do the same with the heat cannon though perhaps not AS effectively.

[Sparkard]

Ok, so let file few more of my recent reflections.
Now after buffing back ss i started playing him more again and...
What i found is that maps were reworked in such way, that there are no more good sniping spots. Some things you may not notice unless you try to find one or use one that you were used to and then you find that now there is a wall hanging in the air intentionally obscuring your view.
In order to get to good sniping position i have to climb up some building and i'm now unable dash under cover from such places and rockets (not even rocketeer but generally any rockets ) have more precision than my sniper riffle :F . And in such position i'm vulnerable even to normal bullets.

So maps were reworked to encourage CoD like playstyle and SS was reworked to encourage BF, camper-sniper playstyle :S ...

What do you think guys_

[Dark_Horse]

ReachH, on November 25 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

"the Sharpshooter is still the only class who does guaranteed burst damage while kiting behind cover"

So that's the role of the entire mech, then_ We have a close-range fighter, a defensive rocket class, a super-manueverable mech, and...that one mech that does burst damage while kiting behind cover.

Awesome.

[Akrium]

The SS needed a nerf.. to this extent.. no. A minor damage increase and they should be fine though. I've seen plenty of people play very well with the current SS set. So I don't see it being THAT broken that it is now a worthless mech.

People need to relearn how to play the class. I know I had to relearn after losing 95 health and some boosting duration on my zerker. I didn't have near the same mitigation I used to have. Now C-Class can chase me longer due to the change as well, which got me frustrated at the start too. I'm fine now.. but I had to relearn how to use my boost properly for the class and what positioning I could get myself into after the change.

The SS is not currently broken. Just needs a slight damage boost to be a bit more competitive. But it was over the top previous w/ it's damage and armor. But with the nerf to armor all around, I feel a lot of things came into balance w/ the game. A-Class are squishy like they should be(could get 170 more armor on an A-Class last beta), B class is on good grounds and the C-Class no longer have retarded amounts of armor that they could just repair through causing you to overheat before you killed them. They probably over did the SS nerf because they didn't know how much the new health reduction was going to change the game play.

But lets ignore the good changes that come from the new patch =p SS will most likely get a slight damage boost in the end. I wouldn't worry. The class is far from broken as it stands now. But it does require you to finally play better.