121 replies to this topic

[Beemann]

ConsterMonster, on November 22 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

if holding for charge increased turning speed (starting from 0) but NOT damage, it would be a straight sacrifice of rate of fire for not having to aim. Obviously this weapon is meant as a crutch, this might work.

to be honest though i dont know what the fuss is about i havent been dying from it much, esp compared to skilled HEAT/grenade launcher/he charge players (grenade/heat and grenade/repeater still my fav build) The tracking seems to miss a lot if a keep dodging, to the point where it actually hits a lot less than a good player with slug rifle/heat cannon

the only way id say its genuinely op is having an explosion radius on top of the tracking and relatively high ROF

The weapon shouldn't be a crutch
This idea of creating low skill options for people who don't even have FPS fundamentals is one I don't think I'll ever understand. If you can't aim one out of two weapons then maybe you should start working on that instead of complaining that the game doesn't cater to your skillset
It would be like asking Starcraft to micro your units for you, or to auto-build a decent base

[wedo]

id say just take the guided off all the weapons , and make the rocketeer almost like quake or tf2 rockets, can lead a target and prefire, like the assault right click rocket, all i see is rocketeers and bruisers lock on fire run lock on fire run, dont have the auto aim at all. make them able to lead prefire better , still shoot the burst of 3.

i can understand wanting to help out less skill players, but if all you do is give a player the ability to just spam and autoaim for you then that isnt helping them at all. make the rocketeer slower moving, and just be able to fire rockets with no autoaim, same with bruiser. can be a right click 3 burst and instead of locking on to autoaim, if you hold the same button charges the rockets for a more powerful burst type thing_

thats what i was thinking at least.

Edited by wedo, November 23 2012 - 01:17 AM.

[Ace4225]

wedo, on November 23 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

make the rocketeer slower moving

Agreed with you until you came here. The speed of B and C class mechs [mid and heavys] has already been nerfed since CB2, and the heavys are now at a more than slight disadvantage against A-class [light] mechs when it comes to maneuverability. C mechs do not need to go any slower. If anything, they need their speed re-buffed to where it was in CB2.

[145154151164145]

You know whats funny, when i was dicking about in the version-that-must-not-be-named I was playing with the early seeker with bots.  I was like "I reallly hope this doesn't make it into the real game, this gun is retarted." Lo and behold.....

Edited by 145154151164145, November 23 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[-Lone_Wolf-]

I have been playing the the Rocketeer alot, and I can say It dosnt seem like its extremly overpowerd, its close quarter combat can be very misleading , the auto homing rockets usualy aim for where the target is going somtimes and people ignore them by dashing in and out of cover and the missles keep hiting the enviorment, over all its more of an open area combat for me, it donst hang well toe to toe with bruisers and assaults in too close. Im not saying its underpowerd but somtimes i do wish i could just aim my rockets manualy, specialy when you want to shoot ahead of where somone you know is going to be and the missles detect the target and turn and hit the wall and you go *facepalm*.

I know this might sound prety bad idea at first but I think if the damage is increased and rate of fire decreased and make it only be able to lock like the Hellfire missle it could be more of balance.

[PlagueDoctor]

The trick is to make it like TF2's soldier, with a low skill floor, but a high skill ceiling. Dummy missiles could work, but the issue with that is that there isn't any rocket jumping. Having a charge up mechanic similar to the EOC or HEAT could work, with the current fire rate with dummy missiles, or half (maybe more) fire rate with homing missiles. The homing really isn't the problem, its the fact that you can put so many down range combined with the homing that makes it imbalanced. Removing the ROF for homing or removing the homing for ROF could work.

[BlackCephie]

Dullahan, on November 21 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

I saw a LOT of rocketeers today.  I agree the combination of good rate of fire, good damage, relatively low heat generation, and insta lock on could use a little tweaking.

To be fair though, I found countering the seekers to be relatively easy.  They can't curve very tightly or be manually detonated, so being a little extra mindful of where cover is has kept me pretty safe.

I've been hit around buildings at about 45 degrees relative to the rocketeer at about 60 meters out. Thts ridiclous.

[Astrolis]

BlackCephie, on November 23 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Dullahan, on November 21 2012 - 12:49 AM, said:

I saw a LOT of rocketeers today.  I agree the combination of good rate of fire, good damage, relatively low heat generation, and insta lock on could use a little tweaking.

To be fair though, I found countering the seekers to be relatively easy.  They can't curve very tightly or be manually detonated, so being a little extra mindful of where cover is has kept me pretty safe.

I've been hit around buildings at about 45 degrees relative to the rocketeer at about 60 meters out. Thts ridiclous.

Yea the tracking on seekers is crazy good. Another thing that really bothers me is its spamablilty.  It takes roughly 10 seconds to fire 8-10 seekers. Thats a Scouts full default HP gone.

[Thygon]

I've been punished by seeker users alot in CB3. However, i hate to admit this, but they are not an issue to me anymore.

I have learned to fight against them. Sure I take hits all the time, but I die a little less. Somehow it just comes from spine now how to move etc.

Maybe just a drop off from it's power and it fits to hawken just fine. After all they are rocketeers, that's what they do. Shoot rockets and missiles.

And we have to remember that these war machinery we're piloting are tanks on feet, mechs. And what would a mech be without a homing missile. I think this weapon belongs to this world.

[Astrolis]

Thygon, on November 23 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

I've been punished by seeker users alot in CB3. However, i hate to admit this, but they are not an issue to me anymore.

I have learned to fight against them. Sure I take hits all the time, but I die a little less. Somehow it just comes from spine now how to move etc.

Maybe just a drop off from it's power and it fits to hawken just fine. After all they are rocketeers, that's what they do. Shoot rockets and missiles.

And we have to remember that these war machinery we're piloting are tanks on feet, mechs. And what would a mech be without a homing missile. I think this weapon belongs to this world.

i could live with it if it wasn't a spam fire and forget weapon

[AsianJoyKiller]

Thygon, on November 23 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

I've been punished by seeker users alot in CB3. However, i hate to admit this, but they are not an issue to me anymore.

I have learned to fight against them. Sure I take hits all the time, but I die a little less. Somehow it just comes from spine now how to move etc.

I can deal with Rocketeers easily too.
But that doesn't mean the weapon is okay.

I don't see how any shooter that wants to be taken seriously can include a spamable weapon that aims for you. It has no basis in skill. It is not okay that someone with vastly inferior aim can consistently land shots on me.

Quote

Maybe just a drop off from it's power and it fits to hawken just fine. After all they are rocketeers, that's what they do. Shoot rockets and missiles.

And we have to remember that these war machinery we're piloting are tanks on feet, mechs. And what would a mech be without a homing missile. I think this weapon belongs to this world.

Gameplay should always trump lore/realism.

[Dawnbringer]

I feel the complete opposite of many opinions here. The homing effect of the seeker is completely useless considering the low damage and rate of fire. The assault rife has much better dps, and sustained fire. The TOW does three times the damage and aims where you want it to. If you sit there and take seekers to the face for 10 seconds, then yes, it will kill you. But  the rockets are slow, generate too much heat for sustained fire, slow rate of fire, and come from a slow, lumbering target with nominally greater armor than a class B. I rarely win a 1-on-1 fight with my rocketeer, simply because every other mech has better dps and maneuverability. its basically an energy carrier for siege.

Edited by Dawnbringer, November 23 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Worira]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

I don't have a problem with having noob weapons by the way.  Especially if skilled players know how to counter it.  Ultimately, we want plenty of weapons that can accommodate a wide variety of player skill & game choice.  Player skill always wins.

There are a couple of problems with this. One is that while it's good to have weapons that don't require too much skill to use effectively, if they are just as effective as a weapon that is more difficult to use, even when the more difficult weapon is used optimally, then there's simply no reason to use the more difficult weapon. The other is that seekers really don't have a counter to be exploited. They function effectively at pretty much any range, are more or less undodgeable, and cover isn't particularly useful against them. They're essentially just "Here, have some damage in your  face."

Edited by Worira, November 23 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[145154151164145]

Dawnbringer, on November 23 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I feel the complete opposite of many opinions here. The homing effect of the seeker is completely useless considering the low damage and rate of fire. The assault rife has much better dps, and sustained fire. The TOW does three times the damage and aims where you want it to. If you sit there and take seekers to the face for 10 seconds, then yes, it will kill you. But  the rockets are slow, generate too much heat for sustained fire, slow rate of fire, and come from a slow, lumbering target with nominally greater armor than a class B. I rarely win a 1-on-1 fight with my rocketeer, simply because every other mech has better dps and maneuverability. its basically an energy carrier for siege.

you must be playing against pros or something cause its super easy mode to use a rocketeer in a 1v1... just don't let them get to close.

[Alloycat]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

I don't have a problem with having noob weapons by the way.  Especially if skilled players know how to counter it.  Ultimately, we want plenty of weapons that can accommodate a wide variety of player skill & game choice.  Player skill always wins.

I'm a noob, or at the least a newbie. I've been playing FPS games since wolfenstein 3D and online since early CS. I'm not the best shoot, never have been, and whilst I'm probably not a real noob, I've certainly been called one from time to time over the years.

I can understand (and approve of) the desire to put in some 'noob friendly' weapons. I'll probably get some good mileage out of them .

The SMG is a good 'noob' gun – It's easy to use effectively in it's optimal conditions, reasonably flexible, and still a useful option for higher skilled players over the slightly stronger on paper Assault rifle due to it's ease of use at close quarters, whilst not overwhelming strong in their hands.

The HEAT rockets are a good 'noob' gun – Easy to use effectively in optimal conditions, and still a useful option for higher skilled players over the slightly more flexible TOW due to it's easy of use at range and in the open, whilst not overwhelming strong in their hands.

The seeker is not a good 'noob' weapon – it's not much fun to use, feels cheep, and is almost as overwhelming strong when used by bad players as by good ones.

As for how to fix it; I'm not really sure. I do like the suggestion to make it behave like a real TOW (homes to pointer), or as some kind of dumb fire salvo launcher with bursts of a few rockets at a time.

My two pennies worth.

[SirCannonFodder]

Beemann, on November 22 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

The weapon shouldn't be a crutch
This idea of creating low skill options for people who don't even have FPS fundamentals is one I don't think I'll ever understand. If you can't aim one out of two weapons then maybe you should start working on that instead of complaining that the game doesn't cater to your skillset
It would be like asking Starcraft to micro your units for you, or to auto-build a decent base

I suck at precision aiming, so you know what class I play_ Brawler with a flak-cannon. Don't need to aim when you've maneuvered the enemy into a corner and they're now filling your screen. For other situations I use the TOW; with the manual detonation, near-misses are almost as good as direct hits.

[Etan]

I am fine with the homing the fact that the mech is slow moving makes it ok. I however do think between the ROF and heat gen its a little ridiculous. Its a fun gun to spam and laugh as people get hit  when they think they are safe but lower my missle output to a point where i HAVE to use my secondary to actually win a fight instead of LMB holding

[Ace4225]

Dawnbringer, on November 23 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I feel the complete opposite of many opinions here. The homing effect of the seeker is completely useless considering the low damage and rate of fire.

You're kidding, right_ Seeker missiles go around corners; I've made quite a few kills that way. The homing effect is stupid good.

Low DPS_ Try high DPS. Does about as much DPS as a flak cannon at optimal range, only they don't lose damage with longer range; if anything, they get more useful.

Edited by Ace4225, November 23 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[Lithium03]

Ace4225, on November 23 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

Dawnbringer, on November 23 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I feel the complete opposite of many opinions here. The homing effect of the seeker is completely useless considering the low damage and rate of fire.

You're kidding, right_ Seeker missiles go around corners; I've made quite a few kills that way. The homing effect is stupid good.

Low DPS_ Try high DPS. Does about as much DPS as a flak cannon at optimal range, only they don't lose damage with longer range; if anything, they get more useful.

You're kidding, right_ Flak does 124 dps pointblank and does no self damage, Seeker does 81 dps. It's not weak, but it's also not even close to optimal Flak damage.

[DarkPulse]

You guys remember what happened the last time we complained about OP guns, right_

That's right, they became useless.

I doubt few would think it's not strong, but I also think that people grossly overestimate how powerful they really are. It's made to grind noobs up, but if you fight smart you could definitely take on a Rocketeer. You just have to fight them differently, as it's a class where running will not work.

As I said before, best balance is probably to decrease their ROF somewhat, but in exchange, up their relative damage, and increase the heat a bit to compensate for increased damage.