163 replies to this topic

[JeffMagnum]

My thoughts:

 

Hellfires need a buff- tracking/lock-on ability/speed is just very lacking.

 

There needs to be less of a delay between being able to use deployable items- 7 seconds is just way too long.

 

Get rid of the delay between dropping health orbs & being able to absorb them ( don't bother whining about 'orb lording'- try killing the person you are shooting, not just wounding them and letting them run away to heal without chasing them down to finish them off ).

 

Scout & Raider need nerfing, scout speed  & raider burst damage is just silly-high.

 

Brawler needs a buff, more speed.

 

Stick Bunker Seige mode on the general rotation.

 

K thx bye.

 

Please be trolling

[DeeRax]

My thoughts:

 

Hellfires need a buff- tracking/lock-on ability/speed is just very lacking.

 

There needs to be less of a delay between being able to use deployable items- 7 seconds is just way too long.

 

Get rid of the delay between dropping health orbs & being able to absorb them ( don't bother whining about 'orb lording'- try killing the person you are shooting, not just wounding them and letting them run away to heal without chasing them down to finish them off ).

 

Scout & Raider need nerfing, scout speed  & raider burst damage is just silly-high.

 

Brawler needs a buff, more speed.

 

Stick Bunker Seige mode on the general rotation.

 

K thx bye.

[gArphEus]

I love the idea of converting the replenisher 2 a 2-slot item, too. It should also reduce the item cooldown 2 zero, too.

 

The holograms really need random muzzleflash and weapon sounds 2 fool the most players, but of much more importance is, it should have a permanent radar signature 2 make it more versatile. Sure, using it as a split-second distraction while fleeing 4 repair is a good reason, but not enough 2 use it 4 solely. If it could also b used 2 lure enemys, trapping and ambushing would b much more effective. It would also improve the usage as sniper dummys. They should b also indestructible.

 

Turrets? If u ask me - make 'em indestructible. Simple. Good. Not realistic, but effective. They disappear after their duration time, anyway, and that's balance enough, i think. The way they r actually is best said in 1 word: useless. I rarely shoot them, but advance boosting and dodge 'em 2 trash, btw. A minor annoyance, not more. Make 'em indestructible and they can b used tactically effective.

 

Yes, agreed - the Reconstructor's effect should get triggered after a shorter amount of time. 1 suggested 5 seconds, and that sounds very reasonable 2 me. 5 is ok, but 10 seconds is definitely far too long - i usually traveled half the map and faced the whole enemy team on my escape route, without getting a single HP repaired in that time. In most cases there is no realistic use 4 that item, with the exception of the Predator, and only when combined with the replenisher. After a successfull alpha-strike u can almost instantly recloak, and simply wait 4 full restoration while hiding or repositoning - even though the latter's always risky from my experience. If the trigger time dont get reduced, at least making it a 2-slot item would make a consideration.

 

I found no single use 4 the Item Regenerator. Wouldn't miss it if u delete it...

 

The ECM should b blasted when triggered midflight as the detonator. Have seen many deathballs exploding in2 every direction everytime i lobbed it in2 their middle - and far away through them, where it deflagrates useless at the horizon... ("Blown away, Amigo!") Too hard 2 hit anything, even with MK3.

 

The ISM's effect should b a total different 1 IMO 2 make it more different in comparison 2 the ECM, because the ECM also blinds the enemy 4 a few seconds, plus disabling his weaponry! So y should 1 use the ISM? Instead the ISM should affect the players MOVEMENT, either reducing it drastically or totally freezing them 4 a few seconds. Just 3 - 4 seconds would b enough 2 make it a viable effect. The captured enemies should b able 2 turn around and shoot, though. Conceivably would b also a ISM "sphere" item like shield and heat charge, activated 2 seconds after dropping, and with the ability 2 throw it, too.

 

Have 2 agree with those that recommend a EOC Repeater buff, too. Especially the Predator would really benefit by raising the projectile speed, because fighting a flying A-class is an almost useless effort as trying 2 shoot a fly using a slingshot. In 9 of 10 cases a Predator gets blasted by a Berserker, Scout or Inflitrator from above with ease. Have faced that situation many times from both perspectives. I dare 2 say only the most skilled double-EOC Predators r a serious match 4 the majority of average A-class pilots. Reducing the charge time, ROF and heat generation would help, too.

 

Another point is the deafening noise, the Breacher produces while charging. It's so annoying, u can really call every1's attention on the whole map...

...or even on Illal! Just a bit lower would b veeery nice. Or turn it in2 a church bell or china gong sound maybe... (*ahaha*)

 

Regarding the EOC Predator i really recommend lowering the colour brightness of the mines - laying traps and luring enemies is often a joke with a bad payoff, when the pursuer is alerted by the lightshow of the mines in the last moment. Ever seen a landmine with a glowing light on it ??? ... ???  Worse thought. Really worse, indeed... Really, really worse... Sure, the mines must stay recognizable 2 a degree, but not THAT obvious as they r actually. The way they glow, I could just as well put a big red warning sign adverting "DANGER! - MINES!" beside it. Even placing them on2 the wall around a corner is no viable solution, due 2 the fact, that they need 2 b triggered manually then, and the major part of the damage goes upwards, not sidewards, making them less effective. I also suggest raising the amount of placeable mines 2 10. Y? Each mine do 60 HP damage, multiplied with 8, that's 480 all2gether, killing every A class and the weaker half of B-classes. Now it's me asking - y? Y not adding 2 mines, and we have a round 600 HP damage, killing every B-class instantly, too? This would make it possible 2 lay traps and leave them unattended, without the risk and need of pursuing fleeing enemies across the whole map 2 finish them. Keep in mind that every C-class still could easily rumble through even a 10 mine-trap like a british WW2-Crocodile minesweeper tank, without getting killed. Not 2 mention how easy it is 2 destroy a mine trap by shooting it from the distance. On Basar i got killed by a SS from the other side of the map with only 2 shots - 1 direct hit, and another 1 in2 the minetrap i laid b4, as i boosted over it in search 4 cover! Masterpiece of action, really! Mines r far too easy 2 detect. It would b nice 2 lower the cowbell noise of this weapon too, as it alarms every enemy in vicinity of ur presence. (*panning the flag* - "Hello! - Heeheeere! - Here i am!") The mines should also b indestructible 2 friendly fire. Dunno how some guys in my team manage 2 blast my traps instantly, even when i lay them just now, and even if they WALK in2 it themself !!! Ka-BOOOOM! - No more trap! - Even no more teammate! - Also even no more gArphEus. Sometimes really strange things happen...

 

The T-32 Bolt... ...well... On the Predator i'd really like 2 have it exchanged with the Re-Flak, because of the higher ROF and especially because of the ricochet effect it does - 4 an assassin mech that mostly relies on placing mine traps and luring enemies in2 them, avoiding open spaces and sneaking around corners is naturally, so y not shooting around corners, too??? Cornerplay is essential 4 survival as Predator when it comes 2 open fight. The possibility of 1 or 2 lucky ricochet hits while retreating would b nice.

 

Well... 'nuff said. My 2 HCs about it...

 

Regards, gArphEus

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

My thoughts:

 

Hellfires need a buff- tracking/lock-on ability/speed is just very lacking.

 

There needs to be less of a delay between being able to use deployable items- 7 seconds is just way too long.

 

Get rid of the delay between dropping health orbs & being able to absorb them ( don't bother whining about 'orb lording'- try killing the person you are shooting, not just wounding them and letting them run away to heal without chasing them down to finish them off ).

 

Scout & Raider need nerfing, scout speed  & raider burst damage is just silly-high.

 

Brawler needs a buff, more speed.

 

Stick Bunker Seige mode on the general rotation.

 

K thx bye.

 

 

Please be trolling

 

 

 

 

I think Kami hates fighting me.

 

(he's not alone)

[1uster]

I'm not sure why people are asking for nerfs in this thread when they specifically said the focus was on buffing underpowered stuff.

 

Simply because a decrease of TTK isn't something we want? And buffing weapons lead to that. I also think that a slight nerf of the most used SMC and Orb (etc.) would do a lot more than buffing stuff which are maybe already powerful - which is shown by people who love them - but not used much because they need practice. I think of Max often surprising with some nice EOC performances, Kopra and Torka with there Raiders, and on the other side I am so fuzzy bunnyng glad that the hellfire is nerfed to hell atm bc of that guy calling out EPIC on a lot of shitty matches here in EU.

Although nerfing the inc won't solve his heat distribution(!) problem it would at least decrease the problematicness of that beast on battlefield.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

Simply because a decrease of TTK isn't something we want? And buffing weapons lead to that. I also think that a slight nerf of the most used SMC and Orb (etc.) would do a lot more than buffing stuff which are maybe already powerful - which is shown by people who love them - but not used much because they need practice. I think of Max often surprising with some nice EOC performances, Kopra and Torka with there Raiders, and on the other side I am so fuzzy bunnyng glad that the hellfire is nerfed to hell atm bc of that guy calling out EPIC on a lot of shitty matches here in EU.

Although nerfing the inc won't solve his heat distribution(!) problem it would at least decrease the problematicness of that beast on battlefield.

Couldn't a global increase in health increase the time to kill?(Though maybe heat generation should then be ever so slightly decreased.)

 

Wanting something "nerfed to hell" out of spite seems really stupid to me. Try to not be easily overwhelmed by your emotions, fellow humans.

 

As an (alleged) support-type, heat redistribution should be the incinerator's entire point. I think the main problem of it (minus the technician) is the damage output of the SAARE, which i think should be very low, so that the focus is on transferring heat to your enemy.

[LEmental]

 

The Shock Coil is pointless for a lot of mechs in the game. Fall damage is mostly an issue to the Predator and even then, it's not a useful internal on a lot of maps.

I'd suggest that additionally to eliminating fall damage, reduce walking sound distance to 40 meters (down from 60, so a 33% decrease) so it becomes a slightly more effective option for those sneaking around. Also reduce the time when you hit the ground and can't move by 50%. If everything is too much for a 1-slot internal, even just reducing the hearing distance would make it more appealing.

 

 

I think fall damage is interesting.  The is a choice between "do I fall and take damage" or "do I use my jets (showing myself on radar) to prevent that damage", just like places on a map where you can walk to rather than needing to jump.  Shock coil shouldn't be a required internal for predator though >.>.  Also +1 for more sneaking/flanking.

 

 

As for EoC stuff.  I don't want to see the speed/dps increased.  These weapons should be hard to hit.  Their focus should be on ground control/area denial.  With the EoC Repeater doing HALF it's damage on indirect hit, the weapons is essentially nerfed of it's most interesting job.  The EoC P do almost full damage on an indirect hit but they can (when not bugged) be destroyed, which can lead to some interesting play.  The EoC R can't be destroyed but, it's easy to dodge the radius.  I don't think they should do almost full damage, but certainly more than 50%.

 

 

I would like to see SMC mechs come down to the level of other mechs, rather then all the other mechs get a boost.  As far as B class mechs are concerned.  Assault/CRT is a MUST have.  Sharpshooter is at a solid place, but can offer dominance on certain maps (if left unchecked).  Bruiser/Raider/Pedator offer some interesting things, but the TOTAL influence just isn't quite there in the highest level of play.

 

If you buff hellfires without nerfing the sustain guns, the bruiser will be unstoppable.  But yeah, we need to give hellfire some love, so please, please please, the SMC reign needs to go.  This is why I advocate balance while looking at the whole package.  Rocketeer for wost mech NA >.>

Edited by LEmental, 24 May 2015 - 12:49 PM.

[Sylhiri]

As for EoC stuff.  I don't want to see the speed/dps increased.  These weapons should be hard to hit.  Their focus should be on ground control/area denial.  With the EoC Repeater doing HALF it's damage on indirect hit, the weapons is essentially nerfed of it's most interesting job.  The EoC P do almost full damage on an indirect hit but they can (when not bugged) be destroyed, which can lead to some interesting play.  The EoC R can't be destroyed but, it's easy to dodge the radius.  I don't think they should do almost full damage, but certainly more than 50%.

 

Without a DPS increase the other player can tank and spank you as they can pump out damage faster and most of them have more health then you do. We live in the repair charge and air compressor era, peck damage is unacceptable.

Edited by Sylhiri, 24 May 2015 - 01:16 PM.

[scotter333]

i will not spend another dime on this game. it is going downhill bad. the matches are not even anymore and its unfair to new players.

 

[Nightfirebolt]

*cough* G2 ASSAULT *cough*

 
What are you trying to say? I know it's underpowered. I was speaking relatively. This game is still really balanced overall. With some fancy piloting you can still do some real damage in a G2 Assault, even if you're not going to be that useful in a 2600 MMR match.
 

The Shock Coil is pointless for a lot of mechs in the game. Fall damage is mostly an issue to the Predator and even then, it's not a useful internal on a lot of maps.

 
Nooooooooo! Shock coil is gud. It's worth the 1 slot it takes up. My infiltrator needs it to be able to cloak and fling itself off the bridge in Origin.

 

Turrets? If u ask me - make 'em indestructible. Simple. Good. Not realistic, but effective. They disappear after their duration time, anyway, and that's balance enough, i think. The way they r actually is best said in 1 word: useless. I rarely shoot them, but advance boosting and dodge 'em 2 trash, btw. A minor annoyance, not more. Make 'em indestructible and they can b used tactically effective.

 
This could be abused in stupid ways. Clogging up tunnels, for example, with indestructible damage-dealing turret walls. The barricade might actually become obsolete if this change was made.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 24 May 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[LEmental]

Without a DPS increase the other player can tank and spank you as they can pump out damage faster and most of them have more health then you do. We live in the repair charge and air compressor era, peck damage is unacceptable.

EoC is not sustain. 156 burst is no joke.

[Sylhiri]

EoC is not sustain. 156 burst is no joke.

 

It is when people can kill you before you can charge. Increasing DPS for 3 shot doesn't make it a sustain weapon, unless you count Heat Cannon as a sustain weapon. In that case the only burst weapons in the game are some of the secondary weapons, Breacher-Slug and EOC.

Edited by Sylhiri, 24 May 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[gArphEus]

 
What are you trying to say? I know it's underpowered. I was speaking relatively. This game is still really balanced overall. With some fancy piloting you can still do some real damage in a G2 Assault, even if you're not going to be that useful in a 2600 MMR match.
 

 
Nooooooooo! Shock coil is gud. It's worth the 1 slot it takes up. My infiltrator needs it to be able to cloak and fling itself off the bridge in Origin.

 

 
This could be abused in stupid ways. Clogging up tunnels, for example, with indestructible damage-dealing turret walls. The barricade might actually become obsolete if this change was made.

 

Hmmm... u might b right at this point, but what if the turrets had the collision flag 2 zero. If u can pass right throught them, like the own team's turrets,  there's no clogging possible, and the Blockade still had its use. Sure - if the turrets r indestructible, they might b a big problem, if ALL enemies have both types, and place them at the same location the same time... that would b 12 possible turrets 4 a 12-slot server, meaning an endless stream of flying rockets plus infinite hitscan storm. Can't imagine that mess, but i really like 2 c it... ...at least just 4 a try maybe.

However - i think it's very unlikely, that more than 1 or 2 players use turrets in an average match, and even if they have 2 x MK2 turrets, and put them all 2gether, that wouldn't break the gameplay totally - the added damage they do in short distance could b severe, though. Not a nice place 4 a picnic, i guess. Good way 2 zone out enemies, when they can't get rid of it...

Edited by gArphEus, 24 May 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[1uster]

[...]

Wanting something "nerfed to hell" out of spite seems really stupid to me. Try to not be easily overwhelmed by your emotions, fellow humans.

 

As an (alleged) support-type, heat redistribution should be the incinerator's entire point. I think the main problem of it (minus the technician) is the damage output of the SAARE, which i think should be very low, so that the focus is on transferring heat to your enemy.

 

Regarding my hf part - this was just a little hint that all of the weapons/numbers discussions isn't of much help when the hawken evening goes fuzzy bunny bc of consistent bad player behaviour. Boy would I be glad if we had a kick-vote function on servers.

 

Regarding the inc. Whats the point when you fight as brawler an inc and suck 3 shots of the beast, overheat bc of that and then what? Sit there and just die. Happened to often, it feels bugged.

[LoC_TR]

It is when people can kill you before you can charge. Increasing DPS for 3 shot doesn't make it a sustain weapon, unless you count Heat Cannon as a sustain weapon. In that case the only burst weapons in the game are some of the secondary weapons, Breacher-Slug and EOC.

Well heat is pretty spammy if you want it to be especially compared to "spamming" 3 shot eoc, im not sure of the exact speed of the Heat Cannon's 'low damage shot' but it's faster in both RoF and air speed than the eoc. It may even have more utility considering the Heat has the ability to be charged in the same fashion as EoC, has a massive 18m aoe and flies faster through the air. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you're classifying those weapons as burst, almost all the secondaries are burst weapons (TOW, GL, MIRV, EOC-P, hellfires, Sabot.) The EoC with a straight damage buff would be too much, you can already near one shot an A-class with the 6-puck burst + a secondary. The EoC on the Raider or Pred is much different than the EoC on an infiltrator. You don't really wanna increase RoF either, I can just imagine the puck spam all over objectives, increasing the damage on indirect hits may make it more viable utility. I understand that the RoF can be infuriating or the damage just barely not enough in a ton of situations but this is mostly because you're often battling an opponent with a sustained weapon that can out deeps you on direct hits, making movement and positioning even more important than it already is. This is not an issue with the EoC's damage or RoF but its overall viability against almost all other primaries like the SMC, Assault, heat cannon, what-have-you.

[StubbornPuppet]

My two cents:

• Put the matchmaking back how it was for the time being, until you have a better plan to try... and don't let tests to matchmaking sit live for so long if they're not working out.

Underpowered/useless items:

• Item Regeneration - does anyone ever use it?  It seems like a real waste and I think the only way to make it more useful/used would be to have it reduce the time for items by 10-15 seconds (rather than 5-7 like now).
• Blockade is not getting much use and is usually more annoying to the team who's mate deployed it than the enemy.  I think it would be better and get more use if it deployed and activated almost instantly and took less to destroy.
• The Rocket and MG Turrets, despite the recent boost to hit damage on the MG, just seem like a bad choice, considering the other items I'm giving up to get them.  They're barely threatening at all and take too much time to deploy.
• The ISM Disruptor is, in my opinion, a wasted item.  Even if it actually made more of an impact on the visual impairment, it's really kind of redundant to the EMP and I think it would be unwise to choose the ISM over the EMP.

[ArchMech]

here are numbers for things and stuffs from sum1

https://docs.google....t#gid=416460446

 

in my short time practicing a tad bit of raider the mechanics behind the re-flak cannon's trick-shot is piss poor,

the trajectory is trash in hawken considering how walls are

the range of the bounce is crap

the spread of the bounced re-flak is crazy wide

its bounce gets instantly countered and outclassed by both rev-GL and the GL

and i honestly dont know what to do with it

and this has been discussed be4

 

eoc mine splash buff? i dont think so you are insane

 

holograms just need to simply be reverted to be4 the giant item mechanic change (aka unlim uses)

Edited by ArchMech, 24 May 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[Kindos7]

Spoiler

Scout & Raider need nerfing, scout speed  & raider burst damage is just silly-high.
 
Brawler needs a buff, more speed.

Buff the EOC already. Faster projectiles or shorter reload time. Don't touch the burst though.

[6ixxer]

 

Items:

HE-Charge: Increase damage to at least grenade launcher level, since it can only be used up to three times per life.

 

Weapons:

PN-223

Slightly decrease damage per shot or slightly increase heat generation, have the shots deal eather 1% heat or apply the mama-bears debuff to the enemy.

 

HE and Det are lower so that you prevent a fully loaded alpha strike.

I don't mind them increasing a little so you can alpha gimp a low HP mech (yes I play a tech and I can accept the odd sucker shot).

 

I don't like the idea of reducing the PN damage or trying to make it debuff like the redox. Tech already has a debuffing weapon. It has a range sustain weapon. It NEEDS an *effective* CQC burst weapon. Something that works best at vamp beam range.

 

If it keeps the current bloom then it needs much better damage per shot, perhaps a longer break between shots to offset and not increase the overall DPS, to cement it as a worthwhile short range weapon. If the bloom is reduced then it wouldn't need as much added per shot or it would be too close to the RPR in terms of mid range effectiveness.

[System64]

B3-AR: PPA: the heat generation on this thing is just ridiculous. It takes about three to four seconds to spin up, and then after that it starts shooting. What I found to be really wrong with it is that the maximum firing rate isn't that much higher then the BBY, and that the heat per SHOT is horrible. Within about ten seconds (I think) of firing the PPA and the SAARE together (SAARE was in big mode) I overheated. This is without anyone else nearby, if there were other teammates nearby shooting, I would overheat very quickly. If you combine spin up time, heat rate, subpar damage and the sheer amount of caution it requires, this leads to a very broken mech loadout.

The main problem with it is that the heat per single shot is too high. The heat per single shot should be lowered because it has to spin up, and the rate of fire is only slightly higher then the BBY. Lowering the heat per shot on the PPA will make it a lot easier to use, because at the moment it simply overheats way too quickly, if you consider the rate of fire. Combining a high rate of fire with high heat per shot is what makes the PPA broken in its current state.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

System, who the eff cares what it does to YOU, the damage that mech puts out over an area, coupled with it's advantages...  I'd like it removed, personally.

 

That'd solve both our issues, right?

[System64]

Excuse me... I'm pretty sure that I am not the only person that has had this happen to them. The PPA has no real advantages at the moment because of how restrictive it is to use.

Also something I forgot to mention, the SAARE should have a flamethrower mode in place of the big mode (or the small mode, I'd prefer if it replaced the big mode though). Giving it a flamethrower mode would make the SAARE much more viable in close quarters.

[n3onfx]

Excuse me... I'm pretty sure that I am not the only person that has had this happen to them. The PPA has no real advantages at the moment because of how restrictive it is to use.
Also something I forgot to mention, the SAARE should have a flamethrower mode in place of the big mode (or the small mode, I'd prefer if it replaced the big mode though). Giving it a flamethrower mode would make the SAARE much more viable in close quarters.

Ok I'm pretty sure you're a subtle troll now.

[System64]

Wat

[Meraple]

You don't hold and fire the PPA 24/7, you fire it in bursts to ensure you can fire the big SAARE balls as fast as possible.

Proper heat management and you'll never overheat.

 

Neither the BBY nor M4MA are capable of spamming the big SAARE as fast as the PPA.

It's what makes the PPA the best choice for damage dealing on the Incinerator.

[BIsmuthZornisse]

HE and Det are lower so that you prevent a fully loaded alpha strike.

I don't mind them increasing a little so you can alpha gimp a low HP mech (yes I play a tech and I can accept the odd sucker shot).

 

I don't like the idea of reducing the PN damage or trying to make it debuff like the redox. Tech already has a debuffing weapon. It has a range sustain weapon. It NEEDS an *effective* CQC burst weapon. Something that works best at vamp beam range.

 

If it keeps the current bloom then it needs much better damage per shot, perhaps a longer break between shots to offset and not increase the overall DPS, to cement it as a worthwhile short range weapon. If the bloom is reduced then it wouldn't need as much added per shot or it would be too close to the RPR in terms of mid range effectiveness.

maybe there should be a small delay (0.5 to 1 second) between between being able to use your weapons and being able to use your items. Is there an item that would be rendered useless by this? The HE-Charge, Detonator and EMP-top could be used while you're waiting for your weapons to cool down.

 

i admit that i haven't used the PN in a long while (i use whatever weapon has the longest range on a given mech, in tech's case the redox-o2), maybe the damage decrease or heat generation increase might be unnecessary. The mech should still be able to reasonably defend itself, after all.

 

 

Excuse me... I'm pretty sure that I am not the only person that has had this happen to them. The PPA has no real advantages at the moment because of how restrictive it is to use.

Also something I forgot to mention, the SAARE should have a flamethrower mode in place of the big mode (or the small mode, I'd prefer if it replaced the big mode though). Giving it a flamethrower mode would make the SAARE much more viable in close quarters.

If anything on the incinerator needs to be improved, it's the Babybear. I think it should have increased range, since the description claims the weapon to be mid-range, but actually has less range than the close-range Papabear, and that's just silly.

Also, why would a flamethrower be close-range? Military flamethrowers could spray the flammable liquid between 50 and 100 meters, surely that range should still be achievable in the far future, right?

[LEmental]

Buff the EOC already. Faster projectiles or shorter reload time. Don't touch the burst though.

 

 

Please don't treat EoC like the other weapons. 

 

 

I can hit people fairly well with it at it's current speed.  One of the last patches that was done was buffing the speed of all EoCs and I think it's at a GREAT speed now.  It's also quite nice that the dps is the same charged and uncharged.  There doesn't need to be MORE pucks, the pucks should just do more damage when people walk over them.  There should be a fear when people see them on the ground.

 

Right now, EoC is useable.  There is just no reason to use it because it's damage isn't comparable to other primaries and since it's utility (controling ground space) is horrible, there is no point in using EoC.  But if the indirect hit damage was buffed, people would think twice before walking over a pile of mines.

 

Utility is the key to EoC.

Edited by LEmental, 25 May 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[Kindos7]

But if the indirect hit damage was buffed, people would think twice before walking over a pile of mines.

 Or they will just fly over them. That's what I would prefer a buff to the EOC that allows it perform better on combat and not just on area denial.
 
But that could always be tested. I wouldn't mind buffing the indirect hit damage and see how it plays. As long as something is done to make the EOC more useful.

[striker0p1]

All due respect, all these posts miss the point:

 

New players experiences are negative. Tweak tweak tweak won't fix it; higher this/longer that; BS. It's your immediate physical, emotional experience; the play. Not the level of the VulcanXT fire rates.

 

These guys are zero help on marketing the game.

These guys are great for fine tuning the game - NEXT YEAR.

 

It has to start as fun and stay that way. I read one high-MMR post that said they want to play too and have fun...

Does anyone really believe that a game lives and dies on its damage rates?

 

If you think I'm wrong, why is the player base down to 400s?

You're too close to the trees. The problem is in the forest.

[Sylhiri]

The EoC with a straight damage buff would be too much, you can already near one shot an A-class with the 6-puck burst + a secondary. The EoC on the Raider or Pred is much different than the EoC on an infiltrator. You don't really wanna increase RoF either, I can just imagine the puck spam all over objectives, increasing the damage on indirect hits may make it more viable utility. I understand that the RoF can be infuriating or the damage just barely not enough in a ton of situations but this is mostly because you're often battling an opponent with a sustained weapon that can out deeps you on direct hits, making movement and positioning even more important than it already is. This is not an issue with the EoC's damage or RoF but its overall viability against almost all other primaries like the SMC, Assault, heat cannon, what-have-you.

 

Never really asked for a damage increase. There is simply too much health regeneration available and too much cover that can be denied for EOC to be viable against skilled opponents. Heat Cannon does have spammy, explode on contact shots, that's what keeps it viable. Flak Cannon is as close to sustain as a burst weapon can get and it helps that it's hitscan, actually all shotguns do impressive DPS. Uncharged it is the slowest primary weapon in the game, charged it is the second slowest primary in the game (first is Breacher Slug). Having a mech with two secondaries as weapons is not viable in this TTK, your simply too slow to compete with other weapons and it is not a range weapon.

 

You can change mine lifetime on the three shot and leave six shot with a longer lifetime to equal the same we have now. If you want mine spam then yah, increase the damage you take with mines, then people will barely bother with direct shots (it's happened before when ADH had the smart idea of changing mine hit detection without changing the damage). Not only will people spam ground mines but they will be completely useless against air targets since your direct damage will still only be 52 DPS. The only thing that would save you is orblording, which should be nerfed anyway or naturally having more health to tank and exceed the difference. This is assuming that you are able to land every puck. Think about any encounter with a skilled player, first thing they do when they see you with an EOC is smash that spacebar so hard that it nearly breaks the keyboard.

 

No reason to run EOC for area denial when Incinerator does it so much better in terms of radius, DPS and sustainability. When ADH drastically lowered the TTK and added viable air combat they just left it up in the air for it to balance itself somehow without changing a lot of necessary things needed for balance, EOC is still playing in old Hawken because they barely touched it.

[comic_sans]

Any reason this isn't pinned but last week's update still is?

[Crminimal]

So many good opinions, some of the most "on the page" discussions to date.
The AC squabbles seems like a piss in the ocean in the face of this thread.
Just throwing some spaghetti on the wall or rehashing of points I have particularily agreed with.

Internals:

Composite armor: A static ammount like 40 armor and/or increase deactivation cap to 2 kills and 5 assists
Shock coils: Reduce waliking noice. Perhaps a 2 slot to negate it completely.

Reconstructor: Only deactivating on damage taken.
Deflectors: 20%, 40%, reduction. (If you are looking for overall buffs and you don't want TTK to take a complete dive I could see this working)
Repair kit: Bonus ammount applies to EU as well!  Also if Orbs ammount healed gets nerfed and other alternatives overall buffed. Repair kit will need some love.
Fuel converter: Yes to more fuel!

  Items:  
  
Blockade: Added functionality to Deactivate/Activate friendly blockades so you don't get stuck.
Heatcharge: Sticky!
Ism: (Additional movement slow, 10-15%?) and or slower fade time. Fading slowly from the peripherals and in. More uses per slot?
Detonator: Faster projectile speed. I also like the pushback, more of that! Add pushback even when not detonated.
Knocking Hovering targets around taking some away from the air game.
Blast from above knocks mechs down and you get free shots, if that would work better those pesky Air-Zerkers would get what's comming to them.
 
Grenade: Slight buff to damage maybe, at least to the aoe damage. otherwise fine
Scanner: Rework plix plox. Maybe only register Manually pinged targets on the map for the duration/area. To help counter flanking mechs but still relying on catching them in the act.
Item Regenerator: Make it a 2 slot Internal and have it remove item cooldowns alltogether.
Hologram: Emulate ALL movements and abilities, most importantly bring out a holo repair bot when the user repairs.
Turrets: More hp. I am fine with walkover destruction of them since that puts importance on placement.

Weapons:

Am-sar: For gods sake, the smoke.. my lungs can't take it.

PN-223: Less heat. Maybe a little more burst but no more dps it is at a good middle ground where it stands.
KE-Sabot: More DPS, not more burst, simply not the Reaper way.  
BBY: Less damage falloff and more accurate at longer range, perhaps countered by slower revup speed.  
MMA: Have it add a debuff for each shot landed the target generates 2% more heat from all sources. Capped at 20% hits refresh cooldown, say 5 seconds.
Hellfire: Get rid of the beeline action. Have them arc properly but maybe after passing 260 degrees or something loose lock and continue as dumbfires. Also dumbfired should be tighter grouped and accelerate faster. Slight damage buff might be in order.

Vulcan XT: More dps and more heat gen. Have the G2A rely on its ability like the scout does.   
Reflak: Rework the wallbounce mechanic. Within a certain angle they bounce at the nearest target like an indirect auto aim. 
Maybe give that to the Predator instead of the T32. Also a little less heat.  
Corsair: Less Mode switch time.

 Mechs and abilities: 
 

 A 
Berserker: Give it less fuel regen, like alot. But give it higher walkspeed and boost speed on par with the Scout.
Reaper: Have the abillity give pinpoint accuracy and eliminate damage falloff also unscoped deals full damage under duration. Neat for all weaponloadouts and multiple situations.
Infiltrator: A little less fuel drain from the cloak.

Tech:  Rework the healing mechanic. Maybe have it be a projectile based rev up weapon but lobbing tiny sticky healing orbs. Reving faster over time and ramping up heat gen. Give the ability a heat generation reduction mechanic instead of uber heal.

 B 
Assault: Give it the CRT stats and stick Fred in the cosmetic shop. 
Bruiser: Some added sound design for absorbed hits with its ability would be nice, Also buff damage absorbed to 80 or 90%. Also increase airspeed.
Predator: A crazy idea would to be able to see your mines while invis, Select them and have controllgroups for them detonate specific mines or groups of mines manually either by communication from team mates or the ones within your vision range. Also the limit of 10 mines could be increased to 15 if the 5 additional mines are not placed within Invis vision distance of other mines.

  
C

Brawler: Rework abillity. Example, a toggleable ability that slowly drains fuel to regen Armor at a greater rate then the current turret mode. Taking damage while active drains a portion of your fuel, shortening its effective duration. toggling off trigger a short cooldown. like 10 15 seconds.   
Incinerator: Reduce overall damage output somewhat. And/or slower walk/boost speed. Reduce the area of the heat siphon  .
Rocketeer: Rework ability. Turret fortification mode is ok just make the thing stronger. Larger aoe area instead of auto aim?. Increase airspeed.
G2 Raider: Ability should not give it a radar signature.

These are not the opinions of a particularily skilled player, at my best I'm in the middle of the pack, so take it with a grain of salt.

Edited by Crminimal, 25 May 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[Digits]

What happened over the last 7 days:

 

[...]

 

5. Implement additional balance tweaks

  - the goals will be to boost previously underpowered items/weapons/internals

  - Mention specific items/internals/weapons you believe to be underpowered, especially those that are simply not competitive

 

EOC is fine as is, but used to be a bit more powerful. having it like it is right now just makes it harder to play with it, but also trains you to be better with it. I prefered it back then I think.

 

 

 

Predator: A crazy idea would to be able to see your mines while invis, Select them and have controllgroups for them detonate specific mines or groups of mines manually

^THIS^ This is pretty good, having highlights over your mines like there is on mechs is genius.

 

Also, I'm amazed to not have seen people requesting the good old Sheilds that you could pop on other mechs as to have a mobile shield.

 

On a slightly related subject, how about a G2 class-A soon? Like a dual EOC-repeater Infiltrator with a slightly modified ability?

Edited by Digits, 25 May 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[PepeKenobi]

forgot to mention that having former ADH members who were in charge of the art department would be something like... WOW!

 

As part/full time art designers or at least as art consultant staff...very cool!

[Chickin]

 

Predator: A crazy idea would to be able to see your mines while invis, Select them and have controllgroups for them detonate specific mines or groups of mines manually either by communication from team mates or the ones within your vision range. Also the limit of 10 mines could be increased to 15 if the 5 additional mines are not placed within Invis vision distance of other mines.

  

 

 

Limit is 8 mines as far as I recall. Seeing mines while cloaked could be nice addition, but I would prefer more interesting option like graphic indication of active(planted) ones, as LE mentioned. I would be pleased if volume of cloaked pred was lower. Also, shock coil making walking/landing quieter is also interesting. 

Edited by ILikeChickens, 25 May 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[Malaekai]

Portable Scanner

 

I'd like to see the Portable Scanner deploy location become visible on the radar map to the opposing team, similar to turrets. I'd hope that by broadcasting its location it would make it a more defensible position in team play, and more easier to locate and destroy when it is unguarded/used.

 

As it is now, the model blends in too well with most backgrounds and the audio cue doesn't really provide much assistance in locating/destroying. Even the Radar Scrambler has a static mark on the map and a graphic which is easily seen against each backdrop. I think one of the most unbalanced parts of Scanner is the constant map information without a deterrent; it is too easily missed or unheard so the benefits persist, and that constant information is overly helpful.

 

A blip on the map could also create more strategy around the item's use. An opposing team would know of the probability that enemies are near or aware, instead of blindly moving around believing themselves to be off radar. 

[OdinTheWise]

we love this transparency, this is really what we wanted from the last devs and never got it. it brings warmth to the cockles of my heart.

[Odinous]

Turret mode rework,i mean,we have the grenadier given the ability..rocketeer's "F" button is useless..

Maybe at least let it shoot guided missiles without w8ing for lock for a few seconds?exactly what turret does,but without being stuck and getting your back uncovered?

Edited by Odinous, 26 May 2015 - 03:26 AM.

[Meraple]

Here's my Brawler Ability rework from my thread:

 

Spoiler

Upon activation:
- Gains a 10% damage reduction from all sources for the duration
- Regenerates 20% of initial missing HP over 5-10 seconds
- Unable to receive healing from other sources while active

- 55 second cooldown, no matter how long or short it lasted because the HP regenerated will always be that initial 20%

Heal/time mechanics:
When not being hit, it regenerates the initial 20% of missing HP in 5s.
If you're hit however, the healing slows down by 50% for a second and the Ability lasts a second longer.

This means it has a maximum duration of 10 seconds.
This way you'll always regenerate that 20%, as long as you keep alive.

Since it always regenerates what is detected as 20% on initial button press, the cooldown'll always be the same.

(Currently 55 seconds, however I'm not sure if it's too low or high.)

Numbers:
400 HP = 80 over 5-10s - 16/8 per second
300 HP = 100 over 5-10s - 20/10 per second
200 HP = 120 over 5-10s - 24/12 per second
100 HP = 140 over 5-10s - 28/14 per second


Visual:
The Brawler angles the shields forwards and slightly spreads them out.
Meanwhile, the "armor plates" on them will open up and vent the usual yellow healing-effect.
The "wings" that mechs usually get while using an ability will ofcourse appear as well.


Notes:
I based it off of the Brawler's current turret mode.
It may seem a little underpowered compared to others, but I'd rather have that than an overpowered one.
The Brawler's already a very good mech without it.

 

Most importantly, it's not a cheesy activate-at-start Ability which requires no thought.

It involves alot more risk/reward than most other Abilities currently in the game.

 

Possible changes:
Perhaps healing from other sources should be cut in half while it's active?
Maybe 25% would be better after all?
Or maybe the healing should occur in 4-8s instead of 5-10?

[Csabi333]

I will say that the assault rifle needs a better dps, it's too weak compared to the other machine guns