163 replies to this topic

[Meraple]

I will say that the assault rifle needs a better dps, it's too weak compared to the other machine guns

No, it doesn't need more DPS and it's not weak compared to the other machineguns either.

Most sustained is already a bit better than burst atm, so I don't see why it'd need to get buffed at all.

[PoopSlinger]

In 3 Pages only 1 mention of the G2Raiders Ability popping up on Radar.

 

Take the G2Raider Ability off radar!!!!!

also

Give it 25 more health!!!!!

 

I love the G2Raider, but we all know it needs a little sumthin sumthin to be actually competitive in this super-sustain environment.  Maybe lower the reload time on the corsair xt instead of health buff.

 

 

Hellfire mechs need a buff.  They are so few and far between in higher level games.  Just a slight buff to speed, tracking, or damage would make rocketeer and bruiser a good decision as a mech choice.

[LEmental]

In 3 Pages only 1 mention of the G2Raiders Ability popping up on Radar.

 

Take the G2Raider Ability off radar!!!!!

+1, not sure if it needs more HP

[PoopSlinger]

It needs something, its the slowest walking, slowest boosting, lowest armor C-Class.  If salty stats are correct its got the slowest reloading secondary as well. 

[StubbornPuppet]

All true statements in the two posts above!

 

The G2R is good and has tons of potential, but it's currently inhibited to the point that only uber-players can really make it formidable.

Heck, decrease the reload time of the Corsair on both the G2R and the plain Raider if you ask me.  When Adhesive increased the mech speeds and lowered the time to kill it ruined the balance of the Raider:  whose reload times were critically balanced so that, against any mech, you had to make damn good and sure you landed your first shot so that you had time for the reload and second shot coming in exactly as it was almost too late.  Currently, the Corsair reload forces Raider players to play very gingerly - making sure only to attack those players who are already down on health and to do a lot of hide and poke attacks.  It's just not the bold "raiding" mech it is supposed to be.

 

And a big supporter of giving Hellfires back a bit of what they used to have.  When ADH made the nerfs to the Hellfires, they said it was "stage 1 of an experiment to balance them properly" and "we're going to start by severely reducing their tracking and speed, see how it goes and, then, make adjustment buffs to get them right."  Then they dropped off the face of the earth and left them in this state.

[gArphEus]

Yes - really. Agree 2 all here mentioned about G2 Raider b4. It's a nice mech, yes, but soooo hard 2 play, because of its sluggishness, ridiculous high reloading time, and of course of the fact it still has a radar signature while using its abilty. It's rarely seen "nowadays", when almost every1 is riding out in his new free Assault. And that reminds me of another almost 4gotten C-class...

 

The Grenadier. I had 2 confess, i played mine surely not 4 months, because i always ended as dogfood 4 pesky flyers, without a chance every time. After a while it became clear 2 me, that i've seen only a few players beside me, piloting the Grenadier, let's say only a handful, and of those, only 1 or 2 managed 2 play it good enough (not me, 4 sure). And yesterday I faced an enemy Grenadier mech, and i was totally amazed 2 c 1 in a TDM, and so completely perplexed (!!!), he lobbed a whole salvo of 'nades direct in2 my face, and i still didn't move until death. 1st thought was: is this a new mech? I didn't recognize it the 1st moment as a Grenadier! Can't remember how long ago it is, when i saw the last Grenadier b4, and i can imagine y - no1 dares 2 give it a try on the battlefield, because it's so insanely hard 2 hit ANYTHING with the Rev GL beyond short Range, and in the air - and no1 wants 2 lob grenades on short distance and detonate 'em instantly 4 good reasons - not even with a 2-slot failsafe. Every Zerker, Infil and Scout eats a Grenadier alive, especially on open maps. On the other hand, using the Grenadier with another weapon 2 compensate that lack of usability seems not "right", not according with its name, so something should happen with the Rev GL 2 make it at least a little bit easier 2 use, i think.

 

An idea would b 2 add a trajectory curve 2 its reticle, that dynamically indicates what curve the grenades fly and where they would hit the ground, leastwise within the direct FOV, not behind the next hill or such - that could make it maybe far too easy 2 use it decently. But it could convince some players 2 give the Grenadier a try now and then. Even with such a special reticle it would b hard enough 2 hit aerial mechs anyway...

 

Regards, gArphEus

Edited by gArphEus, 26 May 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[PoopSlinger]

Yes - really. Agree 2 all here mentioned about G2 Raider b4. It's a nice mech, yes, but soooo hard 2 play, because of its sluggishness, ridiculous high reloading time, and of course of the fact it still has a radar signature while using its abilty. It's rarely seen "nowadays", when almost every1 is riding out in his new free Assault. And that reminds me of another almost 4gotten C-class...

 

The Grenadier. I had 2 confess, i played mine surely not 4 months, because i always ended as dogfood 4 pesky flyers, without a chance every time. After a while it became clear 2 me, that i've seen only a few players beside me, piloting the Grenadier, let's say only a handful, and of those, only 1 or 2 managed 2 play it good enough (not me, 4 sure). And yesterday I faced an enemy Grenadier mech, and i was totally amazed 2 c 1 in a TDM, and so completely perplexed (!!!), he lobbed a whole salvo of 'nades direct in2 my face, and i still didn't move until death. 1st thought was: is this a new mech? I didn't recognize it the 1st moment as a Grenadier! Can't remember how long ago it is, when i saw the last Grenadier b4, and i can imagine y - no1 dares 2 give it a try on the battlefield, because it's so insanely hard 2 hit ANYTHING with the Rev GL beyond short Range, and in the air - and no1 wants 2 lob grenades on short distance and detonate 'em instantly 4 good reasons - not even with a 2-slot failsafe. Every Zerker, Infil and Scout eats a Grenadier alive, especially on open maps. On the other hand, using the Grenadier with another weapon 2 compensate that lack of usability seems not "right", not according with its name, so something should happen with the Rev GL 2 make it at least a little bit easier 2 use, i think.

 

An idea would b 2 add a trajectory curve 2 its reticle, that dynamically indicates what curve the grenades fly and where they would hit the ground, leastwise within the direct FOV, not behind the next hill or such - that could make it maybe far too easy 2 use it decently. But it could convince some players 2 give the Grenadier a try now and then. Even with such a special reticle it would b hard enough 2 hit aerial mechs anyway...

 

Regards, gArphEus

  Grenadier is strong as hell.  People play it all the time

[Silverfire]

Grenadier is actually super great. I see it all the time and I play it all the time.

[PepeKenobi]

the gren is fine as it is now. sometimes not the better option though. but under certain conditions on the battle field it can be a beast from a supression stand point. Remember... others not; so you can sum up a good amount of deaths for your precious pilot profile.

 

::: Variety in statregies and tactics is great right now in HAWKEN.

 

What are we talking about in here?

[CounterlogicMan]

 

5. Implement additional balance tweaks

  - the goals will be to boost previously underpowered items/weapons/internals

  - Mention specific items/internals/weapons you believe to be underpowered, especially those that are simply not competitive

 

 

Source for stats I am using (sorta up to date?)

 

 

weapons/ mechs

 

 

Okay the EOC is dear to my heart. Really needs a buff right now. Anyone who has used it extensively in the current meta knows how painful of an experience it is. Honestly I think the only thing that needs changed is the flight speed. 

 

I saw some comparison between heat and eoc earlier in the thread so let me just break down the speeds for ya. Even provide some reference for people who main heat. 

 

If you fire the uncharged heat. That is the speed of the eoc both charged and uncharged. 

 

EOC 3/6 puck = 200m/s

 

HEAT Charged = 400m/s

HEAT uncharged = 200m/s

 

I suggest starting at 250 or 275 m/s for EOC flight speed and see what happens. 

 

After playing A LOT with eoc raider over the past months I would say my biggest gripe is how slow the projectiles are. It is important that we don't buff the EOC to much though. Remember circa raider patch? EOC was ridiculous burst/rof.

 

 

Hellfires

 

So when talking about balancing auto tracking weapons like seeker and hellfire you must tread carefully. The tracking should not be overwhelming because no one likes overwhelming unavoidable damage. You also have to be careful about buffing tracking because it effects lower ranks much more than it effects high ranks. Most players above 2000mmr can dodge hellfires easily, even easier if cover is near by. The auto tracking is most useful in team fights when it provides sensory overload for pilots. ex. Trying to focus down your primary target, while dodging tows/gl, and now there is a hellfire lock on that you have to worry about. 

 

The main problem I see with hellfire is that dumbfire is so worthless. Spread should be tighter and the missiles should fly faster. Current speed is a whopping 34 m/s. While TOW, GL, SAARE, KLA, and EOC P are 100, 80, 140, 120, and 145  respectively. What use is dumbfire when your missiles are painfully slow and the spread means you will probably miss more than 50% of the damage anyway. When the damage isn't very much in the first place.

 

People have said in this thread they don't like the rof of hellfires. I think it is fine, I also think the thing people don't like about the hellfire rof is that you have to lock on for them to be remotely useful. Which takes extra time. Thus I think if we buff dumb fire the hellfires will be in a good place.

 

 

Vulcan XT: buff the dps by about 10. Currently it is 77.5, 88 if increased by about 10. This would put the max dps of the assault G2 at 176, the same as the assault. Then wouldn't it be more successfully fulfilling the role of more sustain  focused assault?

 

 

G2R really needs to not show up on radar when it uses its ability. Also maybe a slight armor buff.

 

 

Items:

 

Turrets need buff. Love the idea of being able to throw them onto walls/ceilings

 

Holograms, would love to see them run forward like in Halo reach

 

Heat charge love the idea of making it sticky. Maybe consider normalizing its projectile patching when launching it. Also buffing its projectile speed would be nice. It is pretty hard to throw it into a good spot in the heat of combat.

 

Health orb heals to much when paired with repair kit and extractor.

 

Scanner needs a shorter duration or radius and show up on radar like the disruptor does.

 

Internals:

 

reconstructors should be a percentage rather than flat amount.

 

replenisher should be 2 slot unless the amount knocked off the ability cooldown is increased.

 

 

repair kit + extractor + health orb so stronk

 

 

make deflectors slightly more useful by increasing the amount reduced when dodging/boosting

 

failsafe is in a good spot. Increasing this would only result in the same problems that were the cause of its nerf.

 

Composite armor reward for dying? gtfo

 

air compressor should also give air 180 and air 180 internal should go away.

 

Love the idea that shock coils should also reduce walk/run sound.

 

Fuel converter should reward slightly more fuel.

 

That's all I got for now.

[System64]

The Grenadier should get it's Artillery Turret mode back. It would make it more comparable to the Rocketeer. I mean, the Rocketeer's Targeting Turret negates damage and has auto lock-on systems, the Grenadier's old Artillery Turret negated damage and did the same thing as its current Artillery Shots ability (increases damage and explosion radius). Since the Grenadier is basically a cheaper version of the Rocketeer, giving it a turret mode again would make it more balanced, as it would be more viable as a defense/suppression mech.

[StubbornPuppet]

But the auto-lock ability in the Rocketeer's turret mode is so... pointless.  It doesn't lock on any faster and, in fact, it prevents players from being able to dumb fire the hellfires if they want to.  It's not even hard to just press the lock-on button when you want it.  The Rocketeer, and all C-Class mechs, need to be given back turret mode AND be able to keep their special ability/given an actual special ability where one doesn't exist yet.

 

My Grenadier has my highest KDR.  It's a good mech, just needs it's turret mode back.

[System64]

All C-Class mechs need to be given a turret mode AND be able to keep their special ability/given an actual special ability where one doesn't exist yet.

I don't really see how a turret mode would work on an Incinerator/G2 Raider.

Edited by System64, 26 May 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[Kuroken]

So far the ideas I agree with in this thread are:

1. 2 slot replenisher. Either make this a new internal with reduced numbers that consumes two slots or change the three slot internal to two slot instead. Many internals have two and three slot variants.
2. Shock coil also reducing sound. It makes sense that shock coils would also dampen sound when walking/running
3. Removing smoke from the AM-SAR. It's far too much of a hindrance to shoot through that smoke while scoped

I think people need to remember that mechs were meant to play different roles and are best used in different situations.

 

As for the reaper, i think it is in a good place as it is and if it were to get anything then maybe the ability should also allow for full damage unscoped.

 

 

 

As a suggestion which is only an idea, and who knows how it'll work but in theory; but combining the Hologram and Radar scrambler into one item, since the radar scrambler has a static position on radar anyways, it wouldn't make too much of a difference.

[Hek_naw]

I'm only a noob so please dismiss my post like it was ignorant noob piss ideas.

 

But why not change Hellfires behaviour to enact actual fueled rockets? Rockets increase velocity based on the amount of thrust being applied. How about increasing Hellfire impulse until it reaches a constant cruise speed?

 

Imagine: Hellfire coming out of the cannon at current speeds, rising until a moment later it reaches, for example, TOW-like speed. This would make dodging Hellfires more difficult because: a) obviously a speedier weapon is harder to dodge; and b) you'll need better timing to dodge the farther you are from the attacker. Wouldn't long-rage Hellfire use benefit from a change like this?

 

This would add a new mechanic to gameplay, which also means learning a new aspect of the game, of course.

[chuckdm]

Ok, you want my suggestions for weapon fixes?  Start at the beginning.

 

1) Unlock every primary for every mech, with the exception of single-mech guns.  (In other words, the Breecher remains exclusive to the pred, Pn223 stays Tech-only, etc, but guns like the SMC and AR become available to EVERY mech.)

 

2) Start balancing the guns after you make change #1.

 

That's my suggestion.  Why Hawken ever didn't work like this in the first place boggles my mind, but this is how it should be.

 

EDIT: Also bring back mech tweaking.  I forget what it was called now, but it allowed you to adjust core stats of the mech (armor, dodge cooldown, etc.)  This was added and then removed because someone on the original dev team got the wild idea that there was always, always, always ONE and ONLY ONE best way to build your mech and it was a better plan to REMOVE PLAYER CHOICE in favor of making all the decisions for us.  This decision got a lot of ire from the players but was never reverted as it should have been.

 

If you're going to do this ever, at all, do it now before you start tweaking weapons, otherwise you're going to have to tweak them all again afterwards.

Edited by chuckdm, 27 May 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Silverfire]

That's a ridiculous proposition which would make buying different mechs pointless and not to mention balance issues. No.

[Loglino]

That's a ridiculous proposition which would make buying different mechs pointless and not to mention balance issues. No.

[chuckdm]

That's a ridiculous proposition which would make buying different mechs pointless and not to mention balance issues. No.

 

How?

 

If I have SMC on an Infiltrator I'm gonna stop using cloak?  If I have HEAT on a Berserker I'm gonna use Berserk less?  If I can throw an EOC Repeater on my Brawler I'm never gonna unlock a Predator to use it with, too?  In what way would having more options make me unlock fewer mechs?

 

(Also, I've already unlocked every mech in the game.  But even hypothetically, your argument doesn't make sense.)

 

As to balance, yes, it would royally FUBAR all the CURRENT balance in the game.  But so would any major-yet-overall-really-good idea.  The reason I suggested it now was to get it done BEFORE the new dev team gets neck-deep balancing things.  Better to do it now than later.

[H12N8NiO6]

HE charges need proximity detonation. Half the time they are no more useful than a bowling ball as they go flying right by the target because of lag.  

[Silverfire]

But why? Hawken has seen more players leave over vast sweeping balance changes just like your proposal, so doing that now would hurt the playerbase again. I don't see any justification for this. It's not a good idea just because you said it is. There's no support for it. (I also own all mechs and I fail to see how this is supportive of your argument). Many high tier players would probably throw Breacher on an Assault or miniflak on Incin and call it a day. There would be little variety in higher tier matches, particularly competitive games because the obvious choice are there for competitive games - most efficient at killing. Limiting weapons per mech forces you to make strategic decisions on who to engage with what mech. You have limits placed and you have to deal with those limits. Opening up the floor just screws with that decision, nullifying it. It actually takes away from a tactical aspect about the game.

Edited by Silverfire, 27 May 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[chuckdm]

Limiting weapons per mech forces you to make strategic decisions on who to engage with what mech.

 

Or you can just run a HEAT Scout and pwn everyone, at any range, on any map, ever.

 

Yanno what?  I withdraw my suggestion, let's keep all the primaries just like they are and new players will keep getting their asses handed to them by vets in 2 or 3 popular configs and then leaving the game, because that'll totally encourage more new players than giving them options and choices.

 

Yep, you win.  If you're so closed minded that your head doesn't EXPLODE with the possibilites this suggestion allows, then ok, I've had this argument before several years ago and I know how it ends, so fine, you win.  Suggestion withdrawn, devs please don't add what I said.  Thanks.

[Silverfire]

Ive considered your suggestion and disgreed, yet you refuse to even acknowledge, consider that my points are valid while you have nothing to show for. So, I'm close minded because I don't like the idea and have supporting points to defend my argument? I'm close minded because I actually properly defended my points and you stormed off in a hissy fit because you have no argument? Ok

Edited by Silverfire, 27 May 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[Amidatelion]

Or you can just run a HEAT Scout and pwn everyone, at any range, on any map, ever.

Yanno what? I withdraw my suggestion, let's keep all the primaries just like they are and new players will keep getting their asses handed to them by vets in 2 or 3 popular configs and then leaving the game, because that'll totally encourage more new players than giving them options and choices.

Yep, you win. If you're so closed minded that your head doesn't EXPLODE with the possibilites this suggestion allows, then ok, I've had this argument before several years ago and I know how it ends, so fine, you win. Suggestion withdrawn, devs please don't add what I said. Thanks.

But Heat scout isnt even that great for stomping.

[Silverfire]

And that was a fantastical connection between weapons available and vets stomping noobs. Like really wow. I'm impressed at your mastery of spouting fallacies.

[Hyginos]

Yanno what?  I withdraw my suggestion, let's keep all the primaries just like they are and new players will keep getting their asses handed to them by vets in 2 or 3 popular configs and then leaving the game, because that'll totally encourage more new players than giving them options and choices.

 

Your suggestion will either not solve or exacerbate this problem. 

 

Here's the thing, ADH tried something similar in early alpha and realised that it it resulted in people finding 2-3 optimal mech configs and using only those. 

 

Mech tweaking was removed partly for a similar reason. People found an optimal config and then everyone ran it. Those who were not privy to it (that is, the new players, whose experience is VERY important) found it hard to keep up with optimized setups.

[comic_sans]

Yanno what?  I withdraw my suggestion, let's keep all the primaries just like they are and new players will keep getting their asses handed to them by vets in 2 or 3 popular configs and then leaving the game, because that'll totally encourage more new players than giving them options and choices.

 

Yep, you win.  If you're so closed minded that your head doesn't EXPLODE with the possibilites this suggestion allows, then ok, I've had this argument before several years ago and I know how it ends, so fine, you win.  Suggestion withdrawn, devs please don't add what I said.  Thanks.

 

Nothing I care about was ever solved through passive aggression or tantrum throwing, and for that matter, nothing was solved with your suggestion when something fairly close to it was implemented in what, alpha?

Edited by &THC& comic_sans, 27 May 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[Sylhiri]

Yanno what?  I withdraw my suggestion, let's keep all the primaries just like they are and new players will keep getting their asses handed to them by vets in 2 or 3 popular configs and then leaving the game, because that'll totally encourage more new players than giving them options and choices.

 

Even if you ignore the major balancing issues, the sheer amount of backend work that is required to allow players to attach any weapons to any mech, I could see it costing more money for them then what they would gain with the change.

[kasei]

Even if you ignore the major balancing issues, the sheer amount of backend work that is required to allow players to attach any weapons to any mech, I could see it costing more money for them then what they would gain with the change.

They could release a thousand different mechs covering all the different combinations.

[Fabnium]

Keep evasive device as it is we dont need all mechs to turn into raiders or g2 raiders at the press of a butten

in its current state its what keeps non Arial boost mechs ( such as heavy's ) in the game when dueling vs  more maneuverable mechs 

 

some people here are just suggesting things to make already strong things even stronger dont be a nub and listen to them plz

 

 

Remove air compressors and make it standard on all or some mech .. imo its fuzzy bunny to have must have internals it eliminates choice and dums down the game by eliminating variety even on mechs that dont need it at all like incinerator people still take it beacuse they are sheeple with litle to no cognitive thinking of their own and just doing what they think they know best ( aka what some other autisitic sheepele told them in some guide on youtube) and apply it to everything.

 

 

 lightmechs and G2 assualts  are the only thing people take at some point because mobility > everything in this game 

maybe look into this .. its strange design to put the highest dps  and burst weapons on the quickest moving platforms with the lowest dodge cooldown

 

imo light mechs should have less internal space and heavy mechs should have more med mechs are fine as it is

 

maybe change the game ballance away from autistic twitch based shooter consisting only of lightmech at higher tiers .. i dont think you should focus on such a small demograph of player .. they sure arent enough to found the game's coniniious development 

 

 

just my 2cents 

[o0m9]

maybe change the game ballance away from autistic twitch based shooter consisting only of lightmech at higher tiers .. i dont think you should focus on such a small demograph of player .. they sure arent enough to found the game's coniniious development 

Actually, heavy mechs make up the bulk of high tier team-play. Grenadier and Brawler specifically see a lot of play. Most teams will only run 1-2 A class max.

 

Also, both G2s are straight up noncompetitive. You won't see either of them in any serious matches. 

Edited by o0m9, 28 May 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[n3onfx]

 

 lightmechs and G2 assualts  are the only thing people take at some point because mobility > everything in this game 

maybe look into this .. its strange design to put the highest dps  and burst weapons on the quickest moving platforms with the lowest dodge cooldown

 

 

Actually it's pretty much the opposite. Especially considering G2 Assault, all my wats.

 

Oh and the weapons on A, B and C class are the same, a same set of weapons on an A class and another one results in the exact same DPS. In higher tiers it becomes a health race, which is why Orblord is so strong and a lot of people prefer going B or C class.

Edited by neon, 28 May 2015 - 01:27 AM.

[Xacius]

You use it because it sucks? You being a contrarian doesn't make the mech balanced.

rekt

[Volgraza]

An early Detonate (ie second Tap to explode) on the EMP grenade would be swell

[Dew]

An early Detonate (ie second Tap to explode) on the EMP grenade would be swell

 

Get out.

[TheButtSatisfier]

But Heat scout isnt even that great for stomping.

 

Woah there. Heat scout can be nasty as hell. I don't see heatscout getting the widespread love that flakscout gets, but in the right hands it can stomp just fine. Dave can speak to its potential better than I though.

[Hyginos]

Also, both G2s are straight up noncompetitive. You won't see either of them in any serious matches. 

 

I'm quite certain both G2 mechs have been played in TPG and at least the G2R has been played in Try-Weekly.

[Silverfire]

I'll be playing G2 Assault in as many competitive matches as I can, War Wednesdays, TPG League and Cups, scrims, whenever permissible.

[Amidatelion]

Woah there. Heat scout can be nasty as hell. I don't see heatscout getting the widespread love that flakscout gets, but in the right hands it can stomp just fine. Dave can speak to its potential better than I though.

 

Don't get me wrong, it has great synergy with the TOW, better than a GL. But pound for pound flak is better for completely wrecking people because it is straight up faster. You play heat when you want to maximize your K/D vs opponents of an equal or near equal level (and lbr, for fun and because you're scum). When you're pub stomping, it is straight up wasting milliseconds that a hitscan with a higher dps doesn't.

 

 

I'll be playing G2 Assault in as many competitive matches as I can, War Wednesdays, TPG League and Cups, scrims, whenever permissible.

 

*soft weeping*

Edited by Amidatelion, 29 May 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[IareDave]

Don't get me wrong, it has great synergy with the TOW, better than a GL. But pound for pound flak is better for completely wrecking people because it is straight up faster. You play heat when you want to maximize your K/D vs opponents of an equal or near equal level (and lbr, for fun and because you're scum). When you're pub stomping, it is straight up wasting milliseconds that a hitscan with a higher dps doesn't.

 

 

Flak is only better in terms of DPS, and that's within a small range. The heat has far more versatility with it's splash potential and a competent player can absolutely stomp with the heat unless it's on Last Eco, Bazaar, and sometimes Bunker as those maps tend to favor sustain/hitscan.

 

I may be a bit biased since I have used the heat for over a year and my accuracy with it is double that of my flak, but I just see a lot more room for potential with the heat than a flak.