41 replies to this topic

[Waarheiden]

I might of overlooked a topic where this already has been mentioned but please, boost the Reaper Axe and nerf the Technician Axe.

 

-Reapers are pretty balanced besides their lack of AOE damage (only mech in game who hasn't got any besides their items).

 

-Technicians are pretty balanced aswell besides their overpowered heals.

 

 

So I propose making the Reaper's damage input a little higher so that he can compensate for his lack of AOE damage. 
You could make this happen by boosting his damage on his long range weapon, or by increasing the fire rate of that long range weapon, or by changing the long range weapon's impact to splash damage (by not overdoing it ofcourse, but still it would dramatically increase the amount of damage and the assists/kills that go with it and increase the chances of winning with 2-3 Reapers in the team.) That is  just pretty impossible at the moment when playing Siege for example and I do believe the overall win rating of this Axe would go up with a fair amount when boosting him in one of the ways discussed above.
 

 

The Technician is a well known and hated mech, which is pretty much too much to handle if 2 balanced teams (by average MMR rating) are facing each other in combat and one of them has a Technician.
The heals on the Technician are just insanely overpowered. Not only the amount he heals, but also the fact that he heals himself and that the heals come in such a rapid succession, which makes it extremely hard to kill him or the one that's being healed, make him just a tad too godlike (and not in a positive manner). Also the fact that he can just stand besides someone and heal him makes him just too much to handle, because he can just hide behind the other mech and barely take any damage while healing him up every 3 seconds or so.

Maybe you  could reduce the heals/sec when he stands near an ally or make him drop heal orbs like the one's being dropped when you die, only just way more healthy :-) Another thing to propose is maybe making him overheat rather quickly when using his heals, this would make him choose more carefully who to heal, when to heal him and howmuch heals he's gonna give to his allies...

 

Well that's it. I hope these ideas might provide some insight in how a Reaper-main and fairly new Hawken player feels about his Hawken situation at the moment.

Btw: Thanks for making this Axellent game, I hope Hawken lives another thousand years!

Edited by Waarheiden, 02 June 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[SatelliteJack]

I was getting my angry typing fingers ready, but then this happened...

You could make this happen by boosting his damage on his long range weapon, or by increasing the fire rate of that long range weapon, or by changing the long range weapon's impact to splash damage

I am so down with this I can't even tell you. Explosive rounds in my KE? Yes please! :D

 

Also, this

Thanks for making this Axellent game...

This is gold.

Edited by SatelliteJack, 02 June 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

I do disagree on both counts, though I appreciate the time taken for the input.

The reaper's lack of AoE damage is also shared by the sharpshooter, and its ability to engage at such great distances really does seem to make up for it. If someone spends five seconds in the open in front of a reaper at practically any range, most mechs are risking death even at full health. I would be comfortable experimenting with a very very tiny level of shrapnel AoE on the Sabots primarily for disrupting repairs, but truthfully I think both the SS and Reaper are in quite a balanced position.


As far as the technician is concerned, while in combat it only heals ~20 health per second, easily overpowered by any weapon in the game, and only ten or so for itself. The problem is many newer players act as if they are only engaging a single mech when facing someone with a tech, when they are really facing two.

The most commonly agreed upon need for the the is simply the amount of points it gains for healing.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 02 June 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[Sp3ctrr]

 

 

their lack of AOE damage (only mech in game who hasn't got any besides their items).

 

Forgive me for my possible lack of understanding, but what exactly do you mean? I can name at least two other mechs that don't utilize AOE. 

 

(G2 Assault & Sharpshooter)

 

 

 

The reaper is a bit of an odd thing at the moment, the ability is very lackluster and is only really viable for the alternate weapon. 

 

One thing that really does annoy me is the slug rifle KE sabot combo. People use it as a CQC mech when it is supposed to be a long/mid range mech. imo it's quite broken. The KE sabot is extremely accurate (unscoped too) compared to it's older brother, yes yes I know the damage output is nowhere near as great, but still. 

 

Coupled with the slug rifle it creates a combination that can be viable at great range while still having the capacity to dish out heaps of damage at close quarters.

 

 

But hey I'm just one salty guy sharing his opinion, take it as you will.

Edited by Sp0oktre, 02 June 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Forgive me for my possible lack of understanding, but what exactly do you mean? I can name at least two other mechs that don't utilize AOE.



The reaper is a bit of an odd thing at the moment, the ability is very lackluster and is only really viable for the alternate weapon.

One thing that really does annoy me is the slug rifle KE sabot combo. People use it as a CQC mech when it is supposed to be a long/mid range mech. imo it's quite broken. The KE sabot is extremely accurate (unscoped too) compared to it's older brother, yes yes I know the damage output is nowhere near as great, but still.

Coupled with the slug rifle it creates a combination that can be viable at great range while still having the capacity to dish out heaps of damage at close quarters.


But hey I'm just one salty guy sharing his opinion, take it as you will.

Two, you say?

What am I missing?

Also the ability is surprisingly useful in CQC on the sabot, as contrary to what you've stated, it actually has awful accuracy unscoped.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 02 June 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Sylhiri]

Two, you say?

What am I missing?

Also the ability is surprisingly useful in CQC on the sabot, as contrary to what you've stated, it actually has awful accuracy unscoped.

 

G2 Assault? 

[ticklemyiguana]

G2 Assault?

Of course I missed it. The abomination.

[coldform]

Fuzz

Edited by {TDM} coldform, 02 June 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[brackets]

I think there are very few mechs which could reliably win when constituting 50% or greater of the team's composition. This is more indicative of those mechs' versatility (whereas the Reaper is a much more specialised mech) than of the Reaper's strength. A team of primarily Reapers would still be unsuccessful at Siege even with both the Reaper special ability and KE-Sabot damage changes I've suggested.

[CraftyDus]

buffing the reaper would rob me of yet another almost not viable in comp mech in my closet

[coldform]

buffing the reaper would rob me of yet another almost not viable in comp mech in my closet

 

Agreed.

 

Crafty is in a sweet spot with his reaper - not OP enough to get noticed, but still effective.

 

leave the reaper alone. and the EOC.

[o0m9]

The only real criticism I have of the Reaper is that the ability is too niche. The slug rifle doesn't benefit from it and the SAR is fine enough without it already. Seeing the ability reworked into something more useful would be appreciated. 

 

I might also like to see a slight RoF buff to the KE-Sabot. Something like .1/.2 seconds taken off the reload time to help keep it on par with the SS's powershot Currently the SS has shorter TTK on most mechs thanks to it's burst ability despite the Reaper being designed as a low-burst, higher DPS variant. The disparity isn't huge, but I'd like to see some nudging to get the Reaper into a better spot.

[Panzermanathod]

Yeah, I don't think Reaper needs a damage buff. It's a mobile sniper unit.

 

As an aside it's still a bit weird to me that Hawken is the only game I've played where weight class has no bearing on weapons.

[coldform]

again... the ability of the reaper has some viability - the KE Sabot is sloppy as hell when unscoped (it's a spindle round?), and there are going to be times when you need to fight unscoped, re: CQC.  the reload time of both the slug and KES are great - something like two keys and one spindle round every two seconds, right?

slug and sab and slug two three four..  plenty of DMG coming out.

 

#ignorethereaper

 

#allhailtheEOC

 

#stopcoldfrompostinglate

[Sylhiri]

leave the EOC alone.

 

*slaps hard*

[Waarheiden]

My bad guys, haven't had a chance to play all the mechs in game so I haven't even noticed yet that a couple of mechs share the lack of AOE damage.
Still I do believe Reaper is somewhat too edgy in comparison to other mechs. The 1vs1 dueling is just rather poorly given the fact that his armor is so low.
Also when his ability is off cooldown, he becomes even weaker in 1vs1 and the fact that he only has single target damage just makes him quite bad at fighting 1vs1 let alone fighting 3vs3 or something compared to splash damage mechs who also have a lot of sustain and also have higher firepower.
Ok he can boost/dodge really fast and in rapid succesion, but in a lot of scenarios I believe that's not equal to having the duel ability.

 

The Technician on the other hand heals not that much in combat, but out of combat he just heals you up in 3 seconds.

Also, he heals only 20/s in combat , but he heals himself aswell  and he can switch real rapid between the mechs he wants to heal.

So if a mech goes out of combat real quick, he heals him up in 3 seconds so that another mech go out of combat and  can be healed up so quickly and besides that he deals enough damage and  is really mobile. 

If playing in higher mmr (even as a noob, which isn't a rarity because the lack of active players on Hawken who share my elo is pretty much a given fact if I want to play e.g. MA / Siege at most times) I really believe it just becomes to a point where the disadvantage is too great so I'd rather see him get reworked.
And that means nerfing.

 

I'm gonna read some posts here to see what ideas have been dropped already, kinda slacking on getting intel due to exams but I want to make my Hawken breaks as comfortable as possible. 

[Draigun]

Reaper is fine, but its ability needs some rework, in my opinion. The ability's usefulness is not enough to support the individual's skill level. Often times, activating the ability is not even needed, unless you use Hawkins-RPR from a far distance, or *possibly* the AM-SAR. Even then, the duration it offers isn't enough to risk using it in the first place.

 

However, that's all based on what the Reaper is specialized for: medium to long range sniping, support, and the occasional poke from the front or side lines. Those skilled enough to utilize this mech during CQC will likely agree that the ability comes in handy. I would agree, but in the end, that's not what it's designed for. For that reason, the ability needs to be modified to better suite the Reaper.

 

The Technician should be removed from the game. It's concept doesn't make sense, and during certain encounters, it's outright overpowered. Or, alternatively, reduce healing throughput. A debuff that is applied to both the Tech and the pilot receiving the heals was a possible remedy, but ultimately, that approach favors defensive gameplay, which is not what Hawken needs at this time.

 

If those that do not believe the Technician should be removed from the game beg to differ, then there needs to be some form of adjustment and modification to that mech. It currently doesn't sit at a comfortable place, balance wise.

Edited by Draigun, 03 June 2015 - 07:55 PM.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

- The Tech does the least or some of the least damage in the game.

- The Tech has the lowest health pool in the game.

- The Tech has decreased self and allied healing in combat.

- The Tech's ability does not increase self healing significantly, and are still easy to kill when they use their ability.

I agree that the reapers ability needs to change, it seems to be a common suggestion.

[Panzermanathod]

 The 1vs1 dueling is just rather poorly given the fact that his armor is so low.
 

 

As someone else had said, the Reaper is not a dueling mech. It's a sniper. It can be used for dueling but direct combat is not what it's meant to be best in.

 

Also, Tech should stay. It may need a rework but I don't think that it wholly increase defensive play. I've seen plenty of X-and-Tech duos go on the offensive. I've done it.

 

I mean, defensive play is not a bad thing in concept, and it has its place. And saying the Tech only increases defensive play just sounds silly given my experiences.

[Meraple]

Also, Tech should stay. It may need a rework but I don't think that it wholly increase defensive play. I've seen plenty of X-and-Tech duos go on the offensive. I've done it.

 

I mean, defensive play is not a bad thing in concept, and it has its place. And saying the Tech only increases defensive play just sounds silly given my experiences.

It increases defensive play alot more than offensive play, for obvious reasons.

The former is already better and, to be honest, quite boring.

[Panzermanathod]

In my experience Techs encourage offensive play a fair bit.

 

That said when fights become shootouts where the bulk of the players are just popping in and out of cover shooting at each other, that's not much the Tech's fault. Especially since I've seen this happen without Techs around.

[BaronSaturday]

I'm sure everyone saw me chiming in on this. The Reaper needs something. Buff? Maybe. Tweak? Certainly. What? No idea.

The Technician does not need any changes. You simply cannot engage two mechs at the same time by yourself. This goes for the Tech as well. It is a whole nother mech in any engagement. You're going to have to get past viewing it as anything else.

Edited by BaronSaturday, 04 June 2015 - 04:15 AM.

[Meraple]

In my experience Techs encourage offensive play a fair bit.

 

That said when fights become shootouts where the bulk of the players are just popping in and out of cover shooting at each other, that's not much the Tech's fault. Especially since I've seen this happen without Techs around.

What the Tech encourages and what it's better at are different things.

 

I was, and still am, talking about what it's better at - not what people do with it.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 04 June 2015 - 06:11 AM.

[Panzermanathod]

What the Tech is good at is healing. Whether it's used in offensive or defensive fights doesn't change too much, it's good for either situation. Yes, more defensive than offensive, but I don't think it was "intended" to be just a cover-healer.

[Meraple]

What the Tech is good at is healing. Whether it's used in offensive or defensive fights doesn't change too much, it's good for either situation.

It's better at defensive, which you admitted yourself.

It also does change if people know what they're doing..

 

Yes, more defensive than offensive, but I don't think it was "intended" to be just a cover-healer.

What it's intended to be doesn't matter much, either.

I'm talking only about what it's best at.

What it's intended to be, how people in pubs use it, etc. doesn't matter in that aspect.

 

 

I honestly don't see much use of going on with this specific subject - what it's best at.

My first post should've been enough, and it's just being drawn towards things not even related to it. (e.g. encouraging, intended to be)

[Waarheiden]

It's not about going in 1vs2 where you stand against a Tech and another mech. Ofcourse you're not winning that if it's balanced.
It's about 8vs8 fights or 2vs2 fights  where they have a Tech and clearly an advantage. 

[Meraple]

It's not about going in 1vs2 where you stand against a Tech and another mech. Ofcourse you're not winning that if it's balanced.
It's about 8vs8 fights or 2vs2 fights  where they have a Tech and clearly an advantage. 

Tech's more of a liability than an advantage in a 2v2.

It can't out-heal even a single Assault shooting his target, and is extremely squishy as well.

 

The moment you stop engaging however, they'll have time to heal up rather quickly.

[Waarheiden]

Tech's more of a liability than an advantage in a 2v2.

It can't out-heal even a single Assault shooting his target, and is extremely squishy as well.

 

The moment you stop engaging however, they'll have time to heal up rather quickly.

Do you by any chance know how long it takes to get out of combat ?

[Meraple]

Do you by any chance know how long it takes to get out of combat ?

Exact amount of time, no.

It's not much though, but that doesn't matter too much if you properly apply pressure.

Assault is pretty good at doing this, due to the Coolant - no need to stop firing due to the Tech healing too much.

 

It could also be you're questioning my knowledge of the game?

I don't take offense to it, but if so, please state it clearly.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 04 June 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[coldform]

*slaps hard*

No no dont don't slap me
Cuz I'm not in the mood

[Waarheiden]

Exact amount of time, no.

It's not much though, but that doesn't matter too much if you properly apply pressure.

Assault is pretty good at doing this, due to the Coolant - no need to stop firing due to the Tech healing too much.

 

It could also be you're questioning my knowledge of the game?

I don't take offense to it, but if so, please state it clearly.

My intentions were in no way offensive or agressive towards you ^^ Just curious about the cd timer.
If you keep some distance and poke , hide real quick and heal up, it really feels like it's just overpowered. 
The fact that he fully heals himself and the other guy in no time is just ridiculous imo...
They should prolong the cd timer or the heals given. It doesn't feel fair otherwise.

Edited by Waarheiden, 04 June 2015 - 08:35 AM.

[BaronSaturday]

My intentions were in no way offensive or agressive towards you ^^ Just curious about the cd timer.
If you keep some distance and poke , hide real quick and heal up, it really feels like it's just overpowered.
The fact that he fully heals himself and the other guy in no time is just ridiculous imo...
They should prolong the cd timer or the heals given. It doesn't feel fair otherwise.

In a 2v2 engagement, the side with no Tech needs to push in and focus the Tech, either killing it or running it off. The moment the team with no Tech halts it's push is the moment it loses it's advantage as is when the Tech is able to shine. Same can be said for a Raider Scoot combo vs Assault Zerker. The moment the Raider and the Scoot give any kind of distance is when they lose the advantage. If you and a buddy happen upon a Tech and something else, it is your job to corner and chase. You have to push in or the balance of that encounter shifts. This can be said for any 2v2 combo. Vangaurd Reaper. The Vandaurds one job is to keep the engagement in LoS of the Reaper while they focus one guy down. Assault Scoot the Scoot is there to cause chaos and give chase while the Assault pounds on a thing. Pred Raider. The Raider needs to lure his guys onto a trap that the pred has set. It's called symbiosis and all mechs have it with all other mechs. Evaluate and engage any combo appropriately and you will find it's weakness. Fall off and you will see where it truly shines.

[lo_spaghetto]

I don't think tech heals are overpowered. If you have a 2v2 where one team has a tech on it, most of the time that team will lose. Why? Cuz 1. the tech isn't dealing damage, and 2. the other team can concentrate on the tech for 2 seconds and its done.

 

If you increase the number of players, then it will be a little different. I think it is still balanced because the tech doesn't deal out a lot of damage. 

[TronX33]

I agree that Reaper needs a change of ability. The only time it's useful is when I'm forced into cqc, I use the ability before I fire a KES shot,to counter unscoped spread. I also believe that Tech, paired with another competent mech, is OP as heck. I speak from playing on a team with a tech, so don't view this a whining about losing. With his constant heals hen I'm in a sticky situation, in my Raider, I got 18 Kills, 0 deaths, and 5 assists. He and I got second and first place respectively. I think that when healing, the Tech should lose health as ell. If you read in the description of the Tech, it states that the Tech's armor is designed to be malleable and such for field repairs. My understanding of this is that i uses this soft plating as a sort of "fuel" for the healing process. It doesn't need to be a lot, just enough so that Techs can't spam healing. I may be wrong though, as it could also imply that it's malleable for repairs to it's own body. But if so, what's the point of including that? All mechs can heal themselves, so shouldn't all mechs have that blurb?

Edited by TronX33, 01 July 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[The_Silencer]

IMHO, the problem with the reaper is the uneffective range of it's first given primary weapon. I'm one of those who think that the special ability of Reaper should be revised too. A possibility for its SA would be extending the weapon range too thus not only accuracy when required (depending on whether the equipped primary may require it or not). Additionally that could be of help for new pilots running all over the place with non-fully-equipped Reapers.

 

Other than that, an skilled Reaper pilot will represent quite a danger for you on the BF. And as it is now...

 

I LUV MA REAPER =)

[PoopSlinger]

Reaper ability should let you suicide detonate your own mech in a fashion similar to the incin buttstomp, just much much larger.

[StubbornPuppet]

I say, "Don't buff the Reaper until you can prevent aimbots." :P  It is the number one mech of choice for cheaters.

[The_Silencer]

Crafty.. say something, man ..

 

"lol"

[CraftyDus]

Reaper ability should let you suicide detonate your own mech in a fashion similar to the incin buttstomp, just much much larger.

 

it's really the thing I miss the most when being soopurshettyinareepur™

 

I should be able to kill myself

[Pelanthoris]

I haven't played reaper in a while, but IIRC bloom was in place when reaper was introduced? Reaper ability made it a mobile sniper. Now the ability seems quite niche indeed.