13 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

What if devs just upgrade it a little?

 

1) Increase weapons accuracy for N sec. (like it working right now)

+

2) for every 10m which bullet fly (from A to B point), increase this bullet damage on 1%.

 

what this mean? it is mean, than more distance your bullet fly, then higher damage it accumulate. in two words - ability useless in cqc, but give you a bonus damage and accuracy from distance. distance beetwen you and enemy / 10 = your bonus dmg.

 

making some calculations for explanation how much bonus dmg you can get.

 

1) Scoped KEK-Sabot. 75 dmg max. 40 dmg min (min/max falloff - 270/430m)

total dmg from 100 m distance, 75 + 10% = 82.5 dmg (+7.5)

total dmg from 270 m distance, 75 + 21% = 90.7 dmg (+15.7)

total dmg from 430 m distance, 40 + 43% = 57.2 dmg (+17.2)

 

2) RPR-Hapkins. 19.8 dmg max, 6 dmg min (min/max falloff - 80/240m)

total dmg from 80 m distance, 19.8 + 8% = 21.3 dmg (+1.5)

total dmg from 240 m distance, 6 + 24% = 7.4 dmg (+1.4)

 

3) SAM-SAM Gun. 30.2 dmg max, 10.5 dmg min (min/max falloff - 120/250m)

total dmg from 120 m distance, 30.2 + 12% = 33.8 dmg (+3.6)

total dmg from 250 m distance, 10.5 + 25% = 13.1 dmg (+2.6)

 

4) Slurp Rifle (scoped). 60 dmg max, 40 dmg min (min/max falloff - 260/390m)

total dmg from 100 m distance, 60 + 10% = 66 dmg (+6)

total dmg from 260 m distance, 60 + 26% = 75.6 dmg (+15.6)

total dmg from 390 m distance, 40 + 39% = 55.6 dmg (+15.6)
 

 

the result is quite different due the specific of weapons, and it is look like "parabolas", which start from cheap damage, and got you max damage on top (where distance and falloff is optimal), than it start slowly lose damage, but it is better than nothing (if you trying to shoot from 400m which is almost impossible to find some places in game with such distancess, probably only if you're a base-sitter in siege)

 

For example, Slug and Sabot got a bigger bonus (but you can't shoot with it more than 2 times while ability time), for RPR and AMSAR ability just give you a little bit better DPS from distance. with increased accuracy, it can be quite good ability for a sniper, not like SharpShooter have (i mean, press F and look how IT died), but can be good if you keep distance. 

Use it with brain, and you probably can got some good result, and takedown mechs which not focus you, as good as a Big Sherp-Sherp Brother can!

 

due the balance issues, it can be +0.7% per 10m instead +1%, or maybe +0,5%. thing like this should be tested actually, but I think the idea is great in general. i mean, give a Reaper more bonus damage if he stand far from enemy, not a constant damage like a SS or Berserk. Reaper have Speed, have Accuracy, so use it, keep distance and shoot. Play in your role.

[Hecatoncheires]

I would argue for the opposite: higher damage the closer you are. It makes more realistic sense, has a natural limit, and encourages a more unique use-case compared to the sharpshooter.

[Draigun]

 

4) Slurp Rifle

 

Are you serious? No, just no...

[nepacaka]

Are you serious? No, just no...

why? did u think it will be imba? i say that it can be +0.5% per 10 meters. it is all about testing.

[Kopra]

Interesting idea, but at +1%/10m I think it would benefit the Slurp-KEK combo the most. At the ~250m range you would be able to dish out SS-like pings but at a much higher rate for quite a long while if the ability duration stays the same. The "oomph" isn't nearly as pronounced for the DPS-oriented Hapkins & SAM-SAM.

 

Graphs:

Spoiler

 

 

[nepacaka]

for my own expirience, slug sux in term of "long play". with sam-sam or hapkins you can deal more damage for enemies summary due the whole match time (especially in siege or MA mode), this is why i think it is OK if slug get a little bigger damage bonus.
even with this it will be worse with DPS. 
it is also related with maps, imo, hapkins good for map like prosk, origin, facility, but sam-sam is better for eco and bunker pew-pew. slug is better everywhere, but sux with dps xD

while different falloff, RPR will have max bonus on a 80m, but it will be a bonus for DPS. 107 DPS instead 99.
it is also the same for RPR, like give a the same damage (99 DPS) on 100m, instead 80m standart falloff. not super strong, but pretty cute small bonus with accuracy.

for the Slug, real maximal dmg happen only on 250m, when enemy stand so far, and even with this you got only the same +5 dps in total (and even less for ~100-150m distances). yeah, DPS doesn't matter, when u have alpha (which is also not super high, if compare with SS, or how much damage berserk can deal while ability with the same amount of time). in other word, there is no perfect situations which happen always in every match on any map, where you always shoot in enemies who stand far far away from you, and don't look at you. most of time you not get it. But, at the same time, shooting in someone from 80-100m with RPR and give a maximal bonus - it is very often situation and it is Reaper real life in hawken. This is why i think it is not really affected on Slug gameplay (except making ability for slug at least 100% Useful, because now it is litterally don't do nothing because 0 spread xD).
 

quite a long while if the ability duration stays the same

 

maybe -1 or -2 sec. to not allow reaper shoot 2 combo in a row, if it will be supa-stronk. but allow making one KEK-shot and 2-3 slug-shots.


there also still the 3 mechs which need real ability: brawler, rocketeer, and reaper.  :C

 

higher damage the closer you are. It makes more realistic sense, has a natural limit

 

yeah, Hecatoncheires, it have some logic if bullet will deal moar dmg from start flying, but, my logic is more oriented on whole gameplay and feel reaper as a sniper class. want more damage in close fight? use berserk. 
it is mech for long range sniping, and i feel it should have ability which underscores his dignity, make it better only from distances. with ability which just increase damage (the same with bers), i just can go to cqc, and kill someone like a berserk or scout do. it is my thinking about reaper design in general. reaper shouldn't be "the same like berserk but with different weapons".

imo, from this point of view, SS ability (press F and just increase dmg) look OK for SS, due the different in classes. If someone attack alone standing SS, he probably can't chance to runaway, and should fight till one of you death, and ability can help him because his DPS is low. reaper can evade conflict due the speed, even if a-class hiding and attack him. that also some sort of my vision. this is also why i think abilities should be difference, bacoz SS and reaper is difference.

it is also will motivate players play on reaper not like they playing on close range mechs (i mean, not the same playstyle), due the ability totally useless in cqc. staying on range, use runaway behind teammates if enemy trying to shortened distance. or something like this.

yes, it is not related with "realism", but the whole hawken don't have nothing similar with realism, actually xD



 

Edited by nepacaka, 29 April 2017 - 04:30 AM.

[Amidatelion]

I, for one, welcome our new naming conventions.

[CraftyDus]

I'm for nepacaka's names

Leave everything else where it's at, or nerf the reaper,. But its pretty strong as it is rt now.

[nepacaka]

okey, just rename the weapons and it will be a superb.

Spoiler

Assault Rifle - Salt Shaker

SMC - Super Muesli Cannon

SA-Hawkins - the Hapkins of normal man

Hawkins-RPR - Xzibit Hapkins

Point-D Vulcan - Spinner-D Vulcan

AM-SAR - SAM-SAM

Slug Rifle - Slurp Rifle

Breacher - the rail laying machine

PN-223 - Not a shotgun-223

Mini-Flak - Mini-Fart cannon

Flak Cannon - Cannon Cannon

T32-Bolt - T32-Swag

Heat Cannon - Oh boi cannon

EOC Repeater - And i see red...

Seeker - professor Genki super ultimate reality climax

KE-Sabot Rifle - KEK-Sabot

Sabot Rifle - Headshot Rifle

Corsair - Hijack Gun

EOC-P - The first blin is always komom

SAARE Launcher - Saare Connor Launcher

Hellfire Missiles - don't deserve the name

TOW Launcher - tover9000

Helix Repair Torch - No Mercy gun (no, it is not a joke about overwatch)

Reflak-35 - the thirty-fifth attempt to come up with a name
RED0X - Deadhorxe

Edited by nepacaka, 29 April 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[Kopra]

okey, just rename the weapons and it will be a superb.

 

These others don't deliver the same feel. The feel cannot be forced, only bestowed upon by a greater force. By the Turell, perhaps.

[Hecatoncheires]

 

yeah, Hecatoncheires, it have some logic if bullet will deal moar dmg from start flying, but, my logic is more oriented on whole gameplay and feel reaper as a sniper class. want more damage in close fight? use berserk. 
it is mech for long range sniping, and i feel it should have ability which underscores his dignity, make it better only from distances. with ability which just increase damage (the same with bers), i just can go to cqc, and kill someone like a berserk or scout do. it is my thinking about reaper design in general. reaper shouldn't be "the same like berserk but with different weapons".

imo, from this point of view, SS ability (press F and just increase dmg) look OK for SS, due the different in classes. If someone attack alone standing SS, he probably can't chance to runaway, and should fight till one of you death, and ability can help him because his DPS is low. reaper can evade conflict due the speed, even if a-class hiding and attack him. that also some sort of my vision. this is also why i think abilities should be difference, bacoz SS and reaper is difference.

it is also will motivate players play on reaper not like they playing on close range mechs (i mean, not the same playstyle), due the ability totally useless in cqc. staying on range, use runaway behind teammates if enemy trying to shortened distance. or something like this.

yes, it is not related with "realism", but the whole hawken don't have nothing similar with realism, actually xD



 

 

I just mentioned realism as a plus (though a logistic growth is still more balanced than an exponential one), but my main reason for arguing for a closer combat ability is because I believe the Reaper is better suited to close quartered combat than the Sharp Shooter, so its ability should be geared toward promoting that difference rather than taking away from it (hence the choice of the devs to give it an ability that aids in mid-ranged combat).

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I noticed that the Reaper doesn't scope in as far as the Sharp Shooter, so having an ability that places long distance targets as a priority isn't so appropriate. Furthermore, a damage increase at long distances removes the need for its superior movement speed, since you lose that strength relative to the distance you are away from your target (a larger radius means a larger distance needed to travel relative to your enemy's camera). This explains why A-class mechs are generally geared for close quarters. Of course you do still retain the capability to move from location to location faster, but that's fairly negligible due to fuel consumption, since I'm guessing a Sharpshooter holds more fuel (I may be wrong on this).

 

You mentioned the ability would be too similar to the Berserker's ability, but I would say that ,even if it were, it would be used differently, since Reapers maintain high damage potential at long-range and have weaker close-range maneuvering capabilities than a Berserker (Reapers don't fly). So the ability would be used more strategically rather than as a buffer.

[StubbornPuppet]

there also still the 3 mechs which need real ability: brawler, rocketeer, and reaper.  :C




 

 

A-freaking-MEN brother!

 

Going into "turret mode" isn't a special ability... it's usually a death sentence.

 

BUT, I'm not calling for them to replace the turret mode - quite the opposite actually.  I want them to give turret mode back to the Grenadier, give it to the Incinerator, etc.  All the C-Class mechs should be able to use turret mode AND have a separate "special".

[nepacaka]

A-freaking-MEN brother!

 

Going into "turret mode" isn't a special ability... it's usually a death sentence.

 

BUT, I'm not calling for them to replace the turret mode - quite the opposite actually.  I want them to give turret mode back to the Grenadier, give it to the Incinerator, etc.  All the C-Class mechs should be able to use turret mode AND have a separate "special".

i feel that brawler turret mode should have +5% front armor, or even better +10% (and maybe -5-10% from back). it should make it viable for tanking at least with tech maybe, or use it in some specific situation more. i mean, easy way to make some changes.

incinirator in turret mode with tech... quite good nerf, now u can easily hit it with EMP and kill both :D

maradeur with seeker in turret mode - nature's mistake... xD

[Nolo24]

i feel that brawler turret mode should have +5% front armor, or even better +10% (and maybe -5-10% from back). it should make it viable for tanking at least with tech maybe, or use it in some specific situation more. i mean, easy way to make some changes.

incinirator in turret mode with tech... quite good nerf, now u can easily hit it with EMP and kill both :D

maradeur with seeker in turret mode - nature's mistake... xD

For the Incinerator what would be cool to incorporate as the second ability with the turret mode would be similar to it's current ability. Give it heat shields on the front that burn heat but also do damage that increases as you get closer. This would also help with people overusing the tech + turreted incin issue by using the heat for the ability instead of for the SAARE, and for the Papa bear meaning you could ACTUALLY USE all of the heat generated instead of having to constantly stop shooting.