60 replies to this topic

[nepacaka]

[DerMax]

All right boys, we've got a meme mech here.

 

The Memech.

[dorobo]

Gun switching UI blocks mech view.. and is that a zulu dart gun?

[wischatesjesus]

Looks like you have some interesting options on console.

Ord o you? This game play is pretty ORDinary but maybe some console players have some wORDs to say about it.

Edited by wischatesjesus, 21 January 2017 - 06:22 AM.

[nepacaka]

To be honest (without whining about dualweild), if timing will be correct, Ord can be a super-easy mech. With this two mag-pistol (I'm sure it is 90% slug clone), Ord can move the same like SS. Jump, combo-shoot, dodge, etc. Play like a cowboy and dodging around. And you don't need use scope, because you don't have scope. No scope, no problem. It is one more button.

ez mech for ez play.

Does anyone know how working Ord ability? It look like a passive, or player in video just don't press it.

[CZeroFive]

To be honest (without whining about dualweild), if timing will be correct, Ord can be a super-easy mech. With this two mag-pistol (I'm sure it is 90% slug clone), Ord can move the same like SS. Jump, combo-shoot, dodge, etc. Play like a cowboy and dodging around. And you don't need use scope, because you don't have scope. No scope, no problem. It is one more button.

ez mech for ez play.

Does anyone know how working Ord ability? It look like a passive, or player in video just don't press it.

 

It is a passive. The closer you are to overheating, the more damage you deal with its equipped weapons.

 

The Ord is a Class-B, which means it's not as fast as others. It doesn't have a scope, it wields MAG Pistols. It's basically a cowboy inspired Mech.

Edited by CZeroFive, 21 January 2017 - 09:44 AM.

[DeeRax]

HOWKEN McCree?

Looks like a fun mech tho. A pistol mech? Pretty unique compared to anything else that's been released by RLD so far. Cool to see the PN-223 on something else finally. Plus a passive ability with a cool effect, neat-o. Seems like it could even be OP.

However, pretty sure the MAG uses the same firing sound as the AM-SAR (AM-SAR would be a great third weapon choice on this thing, BTW). Give it some more "oomph," make it sound a bit 'meatier'... Also, what's with that ability icon? Is it supposed to be fire? Or like a missile or something? Can no one at RLD draw a simple flame icon? It kinda' looks a lil' 'suggestive,' except on fire...

Anyways... I can see myself playing this thing a lot (If it's not too OP)...






(Seriously tho, you folks really need an audio engineer/sound designer)

Edited by DeeRax, 21 January 2017 - 11:38 AM.

[nepacaka]

It is a passive. The closer you are to overheating, the more damage you deal with its equipped weapons.

sound very cool. thanks. very glag to see that you not copy ability from another mech this time.
remind me the same conception from my "Bouncer" mech weapons, when you got moar dmg when overheating :P 

Edited by nepacaka, 21 January 2017 - 11:33 AM.

[wischatesjesus]

How much more damage exactly?

[Siamenis]

(Seriously tho, you folks really need an audio engineer/sound designer)

Seconded.

Looks like a fun mech though.

[Silverfire]

I wonder what kind of sound effects the community could mix up.  But the ability is certainly interesting.  I'm pretty sure the base damage per MAG Pistol is 35, so dual mag pistol at 0 heat would do 70 damage hitscan.

[CZeroFive]

The heatsink ability is based on your current heat level, which is a number we specify in the game's backend systems.

 

Currently the factor is 2, or double effectiveness at max heat.

[Morquedeas]

Last time I checked, the PN-223 was like the worst weapon in the game, on paper and especially in game.  Maybe that will help balance the passive?  New original things are nice though.

 

Also sad to see the menu music bug hasn't been fixed....

[Sigil_]

PN-223 might actually be handy here because it builds a lot of heat relatively quickly. Doesn't look like my 'datamining' was too far off though C05.

 

Since it isn't the variable scope, what's the weapon utility for the Mag Pistol?

[CZeroFive]

PN-223 might actually be handy here because it builds a lot of heat relatively quickly. Doesn't look like my 'datamining' was too far off though C05.

 

Since it isn't the variable scope, what's the weapon utility for the Mag Pistol?

 

There is none. It's a pure hitscan weapon.

[Zebanchi]

Pretty nitpicky complaint here, but the model for the Mag Pistol is particularly small next to the PN. Might just be me though. Interested in trying this mech out.

[Woods13]

So it's a B-class incin (kind of) with no heat management options? Seems like it's seriously lacking in the cornerplay department...

[6ixxer]

wasn't there supposed to be a balance adjustment coming for the PN?

[Silverfire]

So it's a B-class incin (kind of) with no heat management options? Seems like it's seriously lacking in the cornerplay department...

 

It's not that lacking in the cornerplay department.  70 damage a pop at zero heat isn't bad, it can tangle with the A and B classes, when it comes to C classes it'll have a problem though, I think.  With some special heat management in letting yourself cooldown (or not) it could be a viable corner play mech.

[americanbrit14]

huh, this is giving me some hope.

 

an actual mostly original mech, all it needs is an audio change to the mag pistols to make them feel less like pea shooters and taa daa we have something actually cool

[WillyW]

I approve. Seems like it may have some kinks to work out. But overall it is a great idea for a new mech with some potential. It would be cool if you could make the MAG pistol have like a red laser sight or something. Just a thought.

I don't think the ability is OP at all. You only do more damage as you have higher heat. So unless you have an incin next to you to maintain a certain heat percentage at all times, it gets risky to do so.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

So you're telling me the hotter he gets the more powerful his pistols become?? Sounds like someone I know...

 

[Amidatelion]

So I got excited watching this, enough to hop on the Xbone to try the fuzzy bunny out.

 

Full Disclosure: The Ord is a high-accuracy hitscan mech which means I am probably the worst person to review it

 

First issue: CA$24.00 for "early access." Seriously guys? This had better be up for sale for everyone else next week because without a test drive mechanic, this "offer new content for cash only" is a fuzzing fuzzy bunny move that no one pulls anymore.

 

But enough of that, I shelled out (came with some HC and enough MC to buy the Vytro, whoo!) and threw down some. I was super excited to do the trigger pulling and be all

 

But uh. That rate of fire. Is, uh. Slow. This thing is worse than an AM-SAR in every way. And my middle fingers hurt now.

 

And man, it's boring. Trying to fight in this thing is like trying to fight to the worlds slowest metronome. The PN is much, much better for it than the second MAG pistol, both in terms of quickly building up heat to get your damage out and in terms of being able to keep up with the pace of the fight. 

 

Woods brought up the heat management issue and he is dead-on. Fighting in this thing solo is fuzzy bunnyng dangerous. It can only just kill a CRT from 100 while it is at 0 heat. If it misses 1 shot, it has to wait for cooldown to start and then the CRT kills it. How do I know this? I went and tried my hardest to find a decent player, nail every single shot and after six deaths I finally managed it. It needs to be paired with an Incin. If this thing comes to PC, its hard counter is gonna be an Incin and you may as well stop playing it.

 

In teamplay it is much better, a mid-range pseudo sniper. The falloff is pretty significant, but you do have a nice chunk of HP. But it is ultimately a vulture, because its heat management is so finicky. You want to be about 4 shots from overheated at all times, which means you cannot put down any kind of significant DPS.

 

Again, a high-tier sniper would probably be able to wring more out of this thing than me, but at the end of the day, if they want a mobile, midrange sniper, there's the Reaper. Or the Vytro.

 

Because that's what the Vytro is.

 

Not a stealth mech.

 

I also kinda really like the dumb thing, all of its massive flaws aside. 

 

tl;dr bought the Ord, got a Vytro in the deal, play the Vytro more than I do the Ord.

[DeeRax]

Guess I can stop worrying about it being "OP" then.

[SS396]

 

First issue: CA$24.00 for "early access." Seriously guys? This had better be up for sale for everyone else next week because without a test drive mechanic, this "offer new content for cash only" is a fuzzing fuzzy bunny move that no one pulls anymore.

 

 

That whole locked behind a paywall is a disgusting slimy tactic, and even worse the prices are stupidly outrageous.  They are taking advantage of a set of players who are excited about having something new in the game.

 

Lower your prices across the board Reloaded and quit targeting and relying on the whales to support your game.  In other words don't do what you already do for APB Reloaded.

[DeeRax]

In other words don't do what you already do for APB Reloaded.

But of course that's what they're going to do, that's their entire business model.

[Darktim300]

So what i'm hearing is, weapon glitch this mech with something really nasty and profit.

[wischatesjesus]

Oh god breacher ord.

That breacher combo at high heat would do, what, 488 damage?

Edited by wischatesjesus, 22 January 2017 - 05:18 PM.

[Amidatelion]

So what i'm hearing is, weapon glitch this mech with something really nasty and profit.

 

Ideally all that database work would be fixing the weapon swap glitch.

 

Oh god breacher ord.

That breacher combo at high heat would do, what, 488 damage?

 

It wouldn't do anything. It would overheat after one shot. I don't think you understand how easily this thing overheats.

[Silverfire]

Ideally all that database work would be fixing the weapon swap glitch.

 

 

It wouldn't do anything. It would overheat after one shot. I don't think you understand how easily this thing overheats.

 

So how would you fix Ord? It feels like something with potential at least.

[CZeroFive]

That whole locked behind a paywall is a disgusting slimy tactic, and even worse the prices are stupidly outrageous.  They are taking advantage of a set of players who are excited about having something new in the game.

 

Lower your prices across the board Reloaded and quit targeting and relying on the whales to support your game.  In other words don't do what you already do for APB Reloaded.

 

It is not entirely too absurd to assume what you are assuming if you do not read the description of the Mech in the Playstation Network Store or Microsoft Store and do not know the history of these early access bundles.

 

The Mech is only locked behind the early access bundle for a week, it's not permanently locked behind a paywall and becomes available for MC/HC later. You also get 900 MC for the purchase to spend on the cosmetics in the shop - or a Vytro, which is the case with Amid.

 

There have been no complaints about the pricing on the other Mechs we have released in early access bundles. Other Mechs (like the Vytro, Kerby, 36M, Civ) have been in early access bundles as well.

 

The prices are not unrealistic in my opinion. Using APB: Reloaded as a comparison, you are able to buy a permanent primary weapon for 3200 G1C, which is basically a "base Mech" with no cosmetics, internals or items.

 

If anything there should be more bundles like this for existing Mechs that come with MC, an existing Mech, and cosmetic global unlocks to customize the Mech you just bought.

 

By the way, you'll start getting errors unless you own the weapon in question starting on the PC relaunch. So that's taken care of.

Edited by CZeroFive, 22 January 2017 - 11:31 PM.
less sarcasm

[crockrocket]

It is not entirely too absurd to assume what you are assuming if you do not read the description of the Mech in the Playstation Network Store or Microsoft Store and do not know the history of these early access bundles.

 

The Mech is only locked behind the early access bundle for a week, it's not permanently locked behind a paywall and becomes available for MC/HC later. You also get 900 MC for the purchase to spend on the cosmetics in the shop - or a Vytro, which is the case with Amid.

 

There have been no complaints about the pricing on the other Mechs we have released in early access bundles. Other Mechs (like the Vytro, Kerby, 36M, Civ) have been in early access bundles as well.

 

The prices are not unrealistic in my opinion. Using APB: Reloaded as a comparison, you are able to buy a permanent primary weapon for 3200 G1C, which is basically a "base Mech" with no cosmetics, internals or items.

 

If anything there should be more bundles like this for existing Mechs that come with MC, an existing Mech, and cosmetic global unlocks to customize the Mech you just bought.

 

By the way, you'll start getting errors unless you own the weapon in question starting on the PC relaunch. So that's taken care of.

 

I don't think that the prices are unreasonable, but the entire concept is one I believe you should steer clear of. For that one week of early access it is p2w and that's enough to push away any newbies that start during that time. Unless the early access is a truly unique and unusual event such as the Vanguard Initiative it should be avoided.

[dorobo]

 

edit: im not sure why  i posted this 

Edited by dorobo, 23 January 2017 - 12:28 AM.

[CZeroFive]

I don't think that the prices are unreasonable, but the entire concept is one I believe you should steer clear of. For that one week of early access it is p2w and that's enough to push away any newbies that start during that time. Unless the early access is a truly unique and unusual event such as the Vanguard Initiative it should be avoided.

 

We have extensive playtesting of all new Mechs to avoid a "P2W for a week" scenario. If a Mech has no counters then it's our responsibility as a developer to approach the situation as it happens and identify if something is completely broken. We are set up to avoid that as balancing a Mech doesn't require a patch.

 

 

I am actually hesitant to buff the Ord until proper feedback is received. I have received numerous PMs asking for it to be buffed. So posts like Amid's are great, as it allows the community to come together and determine what is the weak points to this Mech and balance it.

Edited by CZeroFive, 23 January 2017 - 12:42 AM.

[Hecatoncheires]

We have extensive playtesting of all new Mechs to avoid a "P2W for a week" scenario. If a Mech has no counters then it's our responsibility as a developer to approach the situation as it happens and identify if something is completely broken. We are set up to avoid that as balancing a Mech doesn't require a patch.

 

 

I am actually hesitant to buff the Ord until proper feedback is received. I have received numerous PMs asking for it to be buffed. So posts like Amid's are great, as it allows the community to come together and determine what is the weak points to this Mech and balance it.

What if, instead of buffing it, you give it an active ability that immediately brings it out of overheat? Haven't played it, but I feel that something like this would be appropriate.

(the incinerator has both an active and passive ability)

[SS396]

It is not entirely too absurd to assume what you are assuming if you do not read the description of the Mech in the Playstation Network Store or Microsoft Store and do not know the history of these early access bundles.

 

There is no history, its just how Reloaded decided to one day market it on the console release, PC Hawken never had that stench associated with it.

 

I've read the descriptions and they are pretty meaningless excess marketing fluff.  Incredible deal, I don't think so.
 

o Early access to the Ord mech and an awesome camo
o 25 Consumables
o 25 Holo Taunts
o 900 MC to unlock whatever your heart desires  
o 5,000 HC to immediately upgrade your mech

Most of the above is useless to anyone that has spent any time with Hawken.  Do you honestly think I care about 5,000 HC when I am sitting on close to half a million?  The only thing that is special with that package is the sole fact that its exclusive for one week and maybe it comes with a decent camo, and even that is highly debatable (as I haven't seen what it looks like).
 

The Mech is only locked behind the early access bundle for a week, it's not permanently locked behind a paywall and becomes available for MC/HC later. You also get 900 MC for the purchase to spend on the cosmetics in the shop - or a Vytro, which is the case with Amid.

 
Whats the actual point of locking it behind a paywall for a week?  Why do you feel that it is acceptable to restrict it for no other reason than to just force players to pony up and insert cash to play?
 
Including MC with a purchase is irrelevant and unneeded for the majority of veteran players, you are making it sound like its such a great deal to include 10 dollars worth of MC.  Why not just remove that and remove 10 dollars off the price instead? Say for the players like me that have thousands of MC and HC already?

 

Do you see where I'm going with this?  I have an excess of everything you feel is special to include in the package with that mech, EXCEPT the new mech and new camo.  Thats all I'm interested in, thats all ANYONE playing Hawken is interested in.  Nobody is buying those packages because of the excess garbage you are including with them, and because its a "good deal".  They are buying it because its a new mech.

 

 There have been no complaints about the pricing on the other Mechs we have released in early access bundles. Other Mechs (like the Vytro, Kerby, 36M, Civ) have been in early access bundles as well.

 
Well, obviously I can't see the other forums which is another ridiculous story but I digress so I can't determine if those players are voicing their complaints or not, but if I were one of those players, I would certainly speak up about how ridiculous the prices are, because they are.  

 

I'm sure many others are simply not buying it and letting that action alone speak for them.  I dunno, how are sales of them doing?  What are the numbers like before when its behind the paywall, and after?
 

The prices are not unrealistic in my opinion. Using APB: Reloaded as a comparison, you are able to buy a permanent primary weapon for 3200 G1C, which is basically a "base Mech" with no cosmetics, internals or items.

Lets not use an already bad example as a comparison please.

 

$19.99 for one mech isn't unrealistic?  Wow, F2P games are supposed to rely on using MICRO transactions.  Lets start getting smaller.

 

 

If anything there should be more bundles like this for existing Mechs that come with MC, an existing Mech, and cosmetic global unlocks to customize the Mech you just bought.

 
No there shouldn't.  Every new mech should come standalone without all the MC/HC/Taunts and garbage and released to everyone at the same time, none of this pay extra to buy it now before someone else crap.  Ditch that whole early access garbage.

 

By the way, you'll start getting errors unless you own the weapon in question starting on the PC relaunch. So don't exploit the game.

I don't exploit the game, thank you.

[dorobo]

Imagine what shitstorm going to start when the patch lands.. Brace yourselves!

[Amidatelion]

So how would you fix Ord? It feels like something with potential at least.

I absolutely think it has potential. I'd bring the rate of fire of the MAGs closer to the AM-SAR (and of course buff the friggin nailgun) and play with the heat mechanics. To my mind, the biggest issue with this mech is the heat management. It's naturally impossible to get the 2.0 damage modifier, but its also nearly impossible to maintain even a 1.8 modifier because of the relatively high heat gen of the MAGs.

I'd consider decreasing the time it takes for heat dump to happen and decrease the rate at which the weapons cool down. Right now it happens so fast that you can blink and be below 50% heat, which sure, high-reflex players can work around but its a mechanic that will leave the majority of the population high and dry.

The other big problem with this thing is that it either requires you to have the heat charge or be constantly giving away your position to be even remotely competitive.

[dorobo]

Just replace guns with something resembling a giant revolvers and make the sound seem like a giant revolver. Think of a mechanic with reloading - like a weakness where you have to stay low for a bit untill it's finished. Add a cool animation to illustrate that.

Keep that passive ability  and add an active one similar to that overwatch cowboy where you shoot untill your gun is empty in a fast succession much faster than your regular ROF with no autoaim. So you would have to use it when fully loaded for a maximum effectiveness. Overheating will make it stop so you would have to time the heat level too.

 

Just some random thoughts. Don't mind me 

Edited by dorobo, 23 January 2017 - 05:05 AM.

[crockrocket]

We have extensive playtesting of all new Mechs to avoid a "P2W for a week" scenario. If a Mech has no counters then it's our responsibility as a developer to approach the situation as it happens and identify if something is completely broken. We are set up to avoid that as balancing a Mech doesn't require a patch.

 

 

I am actually hesitant to buff the Ord until proper feedback is received. I have received numerous PMs asking for it to be buffed. So posts like Amid's are great, as it allows the community to come together and determine what is the weak points to this Mech and balance it.

 

It isn't not a question of whether or not a mech is broken. It's still non-cosmetic contact that is locked behind a paywall. Even if that's only temporary it looks bad. Even if the mech is a pile of garbage this isn't a scenario that's good for retention, IMO.