60 replies to this topic

[Silverfire]

Just replace guns with something resembling a giant revolvers and make the sound seem like a giant revolver. Think of a mechanic with reloading - like a weakness where you have to stay low for a bit untill it's finished. Add a cool animation to illustrate that.

Keep that passive ability  and add an active one similar to that overwatch cowboy where you shoot untill your gun is empty in a fast succession much faster than your regular ROF with no autoaim. So you would have to use it when fully loaded for a maximum effectiveness. Overheating will make it stop so you would have to time the heat level too.

 

Just some random thoughts. Don't mind me 

 

That would most likely require RLD to design a new weapon, something they probably don't have the time for.  AFAIK they're still using old ADH art assets.

[dorobo]

Exactly.. But is it better to use all the precious unused assets for a half-assed mechs? What happens when those ran out? How many are there left? 

 

In my experience going for the shortest route possible rarely deliver anything worthy. But they are the devs so maybe they know better im just a noisy noob (:

going back to hybernation now.

[Amidatelion]

It isn't not a question of whether or not a mech is broken. It's still non-cosmetic contact that is locked behind a paywall. Even if that's only temporary it looks bad. Even if the mech is a pile of garbage this isn't a scenario that's good for retention, IMO.

Agreed.

 

The entire industry is moving away from the whole pay-for-new-content-individually, and it started waaaaaay back with Smite coming out of beta. League is really the only game that can maintain the model and that's because it's still the most popular game in the world. And even they offer new content for (steep) ingame currency. I'm ok with the pricing, its the "exclusive," "early access" bit that gets me. Especially at the rate that the game seems to update on console. League's "early access" version of new champions has them roll-over to free the following week or two later, which is a major consolation. This model doesn't seem to have anything like that, and that's concerning.

 

I still get fuzzy bunny from players accusing me of paying to win with the Charge because its not available ingame. I can't imagine what the Nief was like before nerf.

 

The fact that the Ord is tied to the tree, unlike the Charge, gives me some hope, but you really need to start looking at this from the perspective of consumers. I understand that there's a bottom line here, but the point that this is looking more and more like APB is well-founded. Introduce boxes and... well, it won't be pretty.

[PoopSlinger]

Good job Amid.  I think it could use a change in the name or a good nickname.  Reloaded please learn how to name things cooler.

[ARCH3TYP3]

Please bear with me here; it is not my intent to start a flame war or contention here. Rather, I hope you will consider my sincere comments for a moment.
I don't think anyone who knows me would describe me as a "capitalist", but I really dont think I have any problem with p2w, the perception of p2w, or even "pay for new (Hawken) content".
The derision of gamers toward what they perceive as "p2w" is quite puzzling to me.
As far back as I can remember there has necesaarily been some form of paying in order to be competitive, or even to compete in the first place. If you wanted to play Space Invaders at home, you had to pay for an Atari system first. If you wanted to slay the dragon in Dragon's Lair, you knew you'd better bring more than $.50 to the arcade.
Most of us PC players have pretty decent machines. Are we annoyed by being called hackers because along with practice, we enjoy the advantages of, and have paid for, a mechanical keyboard, laser mouse, high end video cards, SLi or xfire, headphones and 144Hz monitor? If we have such advantages over players who are limited to 19 fps on a 13" laptop, are we not engaging in a blatant form of p2w, or at least, "pay to be more competitive"?
I believe most Hawken players agree that you start the game in one of the most balanced mechs without having to pay. Further, since everything is grind-able in this game, I think perhaps the worst thing we could say is that it overwhelmingly follows a grind to win model that could ostensibly dissuade anyone from paying for anything.
Wouldn't most of us also agree that it's good for the game if players who are anxious for new content are willing and able to pay for it right alongside those who want to pay for skins?
It just doesn't seem like the morbid dread toward even the hint of a p2w concept is beneficial to anyone, especially in PC gaming.

[JackVandal]

 

I still get fuzzy bunny from players accusing me of paying to win with the Charge because its not available ingame. 

Wait, i feel like i missed something, when did charge not become available?

[Arkhaun]

but oiy vey is the slope so slippery and full of chutzpah!

[Amidatelion]

Wait, i feel like i missed something, when did charge not become available?

 

Well, its not available in the XBox store, and unlinked from everything in the mech tree, so I don't know how players would get to it...

 

 

I mean, conceivably players could be utterly moronic when they call me out in xbox messages and you can actually purchase it through the mech web? But if I understand the mechanics right, there's no way of reaching that thing. Can't confirm if you can buy for MC ingame because I already own it, so someone else will have to weigh in on that.

[JeffMagnum]

How hard would it be to remove the passive draining of heat on Ord like with Incin and create an active weapon ability that bleeds heat off at some arbitrary rate below the one at which heat is generated as long as the weapon function button is held? This would let players switch between high-DPS/burst but lower total damage until overheat and low-DPS/burst but more total damage until overheat "modes" without shooting walls all the time to keep heat at a certain point which is an unintuitive mechanic that also pings enemies' radars and potentially reveals a team's location. 

[CZeroFive]

The Charge will be available at some point in the future. I don't know when and I will ask later.

 

The Nief was given to people for free on XB1 as an incentive to buy Xbox Live Gold, which is required to play online in the first place. The only applicable scenario that applies to is PS4, where you need PS Plus to get the Nief, and you can play without PS Plus.

 

None of this applies to the PC relaunch.

 

League's "early access" version of new champions has them roll-over to free the following week or two later, which is a major consolation. This model doesn't seem to have anything like that, and that's concerning.

 

 

You can purchase all the early access bundles ingame for 'free' (IE; no paid currency) after a week, too. It requires a bit of grinding.

[6ixxer]

What if, instead of buffing it, you give it an active ability that immediately brings it out of overheat? Haven't played it, but I feel that something like this would be appropriate.

(the incinerator has both an active and passive ability)

 

How about you make it a 'pause heatgen' ability rather than another ass-fred coolant ability.

 

You can then do what you like to build heat, and then pause it at a high heat for n seconds and then it continues normally (only 2-4 sec or it might get OP).

You have to watch when it gets near max heat then trigger it when you know you are about to get in a fight, or if you just finished a fight and want to get straight into another you can pause before you lose heat so you are at half heat when the next fight starts, etc. Maybe it can be 2sec while shooting and if not shooting it can pause it longer to keep you in the zone.

 

So in essence its kinda making it half-incin+half-zerker. Passive damage increase + a short window of pilot control.

 

Allows you to kinda setup an ambush or hold out in a tough firefight that bit longer with good dps given the low RoF on the mag pistols.

[6ixxer]

 

Most of the above is useless to anyone that has spent any time with Hawken.  Do you honestly think I care about 5,000 HC when I am sitting on close to half a million?  The only thing that is special with that package is the sole fact that its exclusive for one week and maybe it comes with a decent camo, and even that is highly debatable (as I haven't seen what it looks like).
 

 
Whats the actual point of locking it behind a paywall for a week?  Why do you feel that it is acceptable to restrict it for no other reason than to just force players to pony up and insert cash to play?
 
Including MC with a purchase is irrelevant and unneeded for the majority of veteran players, you are making it sound like its such a great deal to include 10 dollars worth of MC.  Why not just remove that and remove 10 dollars off the price instead? Say for the players like me that have thousands of MC and HC already?

 

Do you see where I'm going with this?  I have an excess of everything you feel is special to include in the package with that mech, EXCEPT the new mech and new camo.  Thats all I'm interested in, thats all ANYONE playing Hawken is interested in.  Nobody is buying those packages because of the excess garbage you are including with them, and because its a "good deal".  They are buying it because its a new mech.

 

1) Just because you don't care for something doesnt represent everyone

2) They aren't targeting you, as you can just buy the thing with your buckets of MC

3) The point is to get some cash out of impatient people, as they are a business that gives away most of the game

You seem to have an excess of self worth too...

 

I don't claim to represent everyone, but I sometimes buy bundles as I have limited playtime. I have spent 100+ on Hawken over my time, which I still see as good value given what I have gotten in return. There are lots of games I wouldn't drop even 20-40 on.

 

I like to get some MC included for getting cosmetics.

The one thing I would definitely drop cash on is new Mechs (and RLD know this is their best monetization)

Short term exclusivity has some value and i'm ok with it. I'm surprised its only a week.

[Amidatelion]

You can purchase all the early access bundles ingame for 'free' (IE; no paid currency) after a week, too. It requires a bit of grinding.

Excellent, glad to hear.

[SS396]

1) Just because you don't care for something doesnt represent everyone

It also doesn't mean I'm the only one that feels that way too.  I'm just the one willing to speak up about it.
 

2) They aren't targeting you, as you can just buy the thing with your buckets of MC

No, no I can't, I have to wait a week, remember?
 

3) The point is to get some cash out of impatient people, as they are a business that gives away most of the game

Again, that is the root of the problem to force people into paying cash because they are impatient. Thank you for repeating what I had already said is a slimy tactic.
 

You seem to have an excess of self worth too...

So... What does this have to do with the subject at hand again?
 

I don't claim to represent everyone, but I sometimes buy bundles as I have limited playtime. I have spent 100+ on Hawken over my time, which I still see as good value given what I have gotten in return. There are lots of games I wouldn't drop even 20-40 on.

And thats exactly the point of the video I linked. You feel your spending was well worth it, and thats fine, the question is what about all the other players out there.  How do they feel?  How many of them take one look at the prices and say NOPE.
 

I like to get some MC included for getting cosmetics.
The one thing I would definitely drop cash on is new Mechs (and RLD know this is their best monetization)
Short term exclusivity has some value and i'm ok with it. I'm surprised its only a week.

It serves no purpose other than to extort money from impatient (loyal) players and that is why it is a bad monetization scheme.

[crockrocket]

The Charge will be available at some point in the future. I don't know when and I will ask later.

 

The Nief was given to people for free on XB1 as an incentive to buy Xbox Live Gold, which is required to play online in the first place. The only applicable scenario that applies to is PS4, where you need PS Plus to get the Nief, and you can play without PS Plus.

 

 

 

This smells like corporate meddling, and I would like to think that's the case in the hopes RLD wouldn't be dumb enough to pull this shite (for my reasons listed in above comment). I see what you're saying about the Nief on XBox and that's fine. The rest of what I have quoted is p2w.

Edited by crockrocket, 23 January 2017 - 08:30 PM.

[CZeroFive]

How do they feel?  How many of them take one look at the prices and say NOPE.

 

Players have been taking a look at the prices and say "NOPE" far before any early access bundle. That's kind of why Hawken is in the position it's in with a small development team taking care of the game.

 

Side note, the assumptions on the forums don't match the actual data from end users. The early access bundles have been doing better than the MC packages in terms of sales and we overall see more MC purchases than before because players actually have MC to spend on other items.

 

Let's put it this way: MC purchases on console are unpopular because you have to spend money on the PS4/XB1 Store, which then the currency obtained you can only spend on Hawken. Whereas a bundle you are guaranteed an item, currency, and know exactly what you are getting.

 

We don't expect the same data out of PC because PC players are more inclined to make an MC purchase than a console player. PC probably won't be seeing these types of bundles as a result as they aren't presented well to the end user. Our job as a developer would be to present the offers better. Which is shaped based on feedback, like this post.

 

 

It serves no purpose other than to extort money from impatient (loyal) players and that is why it is a bad monetization scheme.

 

 

Again, that is the root of the problem to force people into paying cash because they are impatient. Thank you for repeating what I had already said is a slimy tactic.

 

 ex·tor·tion the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

 

No one is forcing you to buy the bundle. Josh isn't going to your house with a gun forced to your head and asking you to play Hawken or buy the bundles, though that would make a fantastic image macro.

 

 

It also doesn't mean I'm the only one that feels that way too.  I'm just the one willing to speak up about it.

 

Those who speak up about things typically do so because they aren't content with the actions of another person. Forum posters typically represent 5% of all active players (based on internal data circa 2013) but reflect on all of the players that read them. So the margin of complaints on the forums will clearly be higher, and the impact of those complaining about those issues will be higher. That doesn't instantly invalidate your opinion but it still makes it your opinion and clearly we take into consideration all data and not just one person's forum post.

[Merl61]

I think I speak for many here when I say that I would GLADLY pour money into this game if I was compelled to do so. As soon as you guys offer good stuff I'll buy it because this game is great (even in its current state) and I believe in supporting developers of games that you enjoy.

[PoopSlinger]

Maybe stick with calling the chassis the ord chassis and name the mech Tickler.

 

Cuz it just kinda tickles people with damage to let them know you're there.

[ARCH3TYP3]

Maybe stick with calling the chassis the ord chassis and name the mech Tickler.

Cuz it just kinda tickles people with damage to let them know you're there.

I had hoped that the mechs would regain proper names rather than simply being referenced by their chassis, by the time they were released on PC.
I am not sure what they were thinking when they adopted this convention.

[Amidatelion]

I had hoped that the mechs would regain proper names rather than simply being referenced by their chassis, by the time they were released on PC.
I am not sure what they were thinking when they adopted this convention.

Pretty sure they wanted to differentiate "their" mechs from ADH's.

DallasCreeper actually made a half decent thread about it and it'll be brought up in my massive write-up that'll drop (ideally, depending on the potato harvest) by the end of next month.

[SS396]

Players have been taking a look at the prices and say "NOPE" far before any early access bundle. That's kind of why Hawken is in the position it's in with a small development team taking care of the game.

If you recognize that simple fact, then why on earth are the prices higher than when ADH was running things? If it didn't work for them, its not going to work for you the second time around.  On PC $10 gets me 1440 MC, and on PSN $10 only gets me 850 MC.
 
Do something DIFFERENT.  Like I said, lower the prices, and push more content, MICRO TRANSACTIONS.  Put cosmetics up for sale for .99 cents, so that when a player is browsing the store they say "hey, this is cheap, its only a buck".  Players are less likely to miss a buck or two leaving their pockets than 20 dollars leaving at the push of one button.

 

This whole idea of you wanting 20 bucks from me every time you release a new mech just doesn't sit right, for 50 dollars I can buy an entirely new game, or I can buy another game thats on sale for the same 20 bucks or less.  Those are the things I immediately think about when I'm contemplating a purchase. 
 
I told the same thing to ADH hundreds of times, they didn't listen either, and I have little faith that you will listen also. 
 

 ex·tor·tion the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
 
No one is forcing you to buy the bundle. Josh isn't going to your house with a gun forced to your head and asking you to play Hawken or buy the bundles, though that would make a fantastic image macro.

There is more to this psychologically and sociologically than what you are so easily dismissing as something physically.  I see you think this is some sort of joke, I don't.  Maybe extortion is a bit of an exaggeration of the situation, but it is exploiting the playerbase and it drives players away, and you need all the players you can get.