19 replies to this topic

[Rei]

My problems with the Sabot weapon, primarily the sharpshooter's to be exact is the following.

 

The spread on unscoped Sabot shots is awful. Here's a little graphic i made of 50 (sorry for a small sample, but it takes awhile) unscoped shots I fired 37 meters from a wall (pretty close range) 

video: 

 

 

The Damage reduction on unscoped Sabot shots, why have both increased spread AND reduced damage on this? I would say one or the other, but not both. A little overkill for short range combat.

 

It takes 28 frames/60 per second to scope in all of the way. This is nearly half a second. (4.66666(repeating) seconds to be exact) This is pretty damn long since you don't get any of the accuracy/damage bonuses until fully scoped

The scoped in turn cap is awful, it should at least be the same as normal turncap, but nope, can't follow enemies with it even if you want to scope close-midrange. You're forced to play unscoped for the most part WITH nerfed accuracy AND damage...

 

I understand the design decision of making the Sharpshooter a long range support, but it shouldn't be so badly crippled in close range to where it can barely hit low health enemies with the sabot in close range. 

 

I don't think unscoped weapons should have both a terrible accuracy nerf as well as a damage nerf with the long scope time. One or the other please, but yeah it's bad D:. I'm pretty sure the reaper's doesn't shoot off nearly as badly as the SS'. 

 

edit: Let me make it clear that I'm ok with the SS' sabot having crap accuracy close range. But the fact that the SS is already one of the lowest DPS mechs, even while scoped, makes it pretty much non existent close range when the shots also do reduced damage on top of having a high chance of missing. Taking time to scope in is not going to happen with people moving fast enough to where your zoom camera can't keep up due to turn rate caps.

 

tl;dr

I personally would like to see the following after recent information:

Full damage unscoped

normalized zoom time for all FoV, faster for the higher FoV, and slower for the lower ones...

 

That's all. 

Edited by Rei, 13 June 2015 - 12:06 AM.

[Elite_is_salty]

Nope. Well then people will get used to where to aim with unscoped sabot and it will be a close range mech. 

[CraftyDus]

Third unscoped sabot shot on ss is accurate, then two after that, then third twice, then two twice, then repeats
Just a matter of learning the pattern

[ticklemyiguana]

Third unscoped sabot shot on ss is accurate, then two after that, then third twice, then two twice, then repeats
Just a matter of learning the pattern

dudewat

[brackets]

Scope time is funky; you can actually scope in faster with a lower FoV setting. I don't know if this was intended or if it's desirable.

[Rei]

Scope time is funky; you can actually scope in faster with a lower FoV setting. I don't know if this was intended or if it's desirable.

You're right, did a quick test and got a 13 frame zoom with 60 FoV, and 20 frames with 85 FoV... Uh, that's kinda broken lol

Edited by Rei, 12 June 2015 - 11:09 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Scope time is funky; you can actually scope in faster with a lower FoV setting. I don't know if this was intended or if it's desirable.

If this is legitimately the case, this really needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

Would someone with good recording capabilities be able to make a video showing this so we can get this forwarded appropriately?

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 12 June 2015 - 11:12 PM.

[Rei]

If this is legitimately the case, this really needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

Would someone with good recording capabilities be able to make a video showing this so we can get this forwarded appropriately?

I already did the testing, it's confirmed.

 

PLS GIVE ALL FoV 13 frame zoom :D

Edited by Rei, 12 June 2015 - 11:14 PM.

[Rei]

I'm pretty sure hawken is doing this for their zoom function. Current FoV - X*Time until it = ZoomFoV

 

What that means is for example let's say zoom FoV is 15 (I really don't know if it is or not, but this is just an example of proof of concept)

X is some fixed rate which it zooms to a certain FoV

110 - X*.467 = 15 

X would be 203.42 in this case.

 

Testing this rate with the other FoVs i have personally tested

 

85 - 203.42*T = 15

T here would be .344 which is really close to 20 frames (.3 repeating what i got from my test)

 

60 - 203.42*T = 15

T here would be .221 which is 13 frames (Exactly what I got from my test).

 

This is pretty consistent with the frame data I found oddly enough

Edited by Rei, 12 June 2015 - 11:39 PM.

[brackets]

I'm not convinced it's as broken as you are making it out to be; a smaller FoV comes with its own disadvantages (less peripheral awareness) so a faster scope-in time due to lower FoV isn't strictly an advantage.

Edited by brackets, 12 June 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[DerMax]

What you're doing here is asking to make a long-range mech also viable in CQC, which, in my opinion, is a terrible idea. I am for niche mechs that have specific roles on the battlefield � not one-size-fits-all mechs that are good at everything. This is why I don't like the Assault � it is great not only in close-, but also in mid- and long-range combat.

 

As a sharpie, you should play in such a way that you never find yourself in CQC with anyone. Stay behind the team and help them suppress the enemy. A competent SS (even one) is already a huge pain in the neck on almost any map, except for, perhaps, Wreckage and Uptown, and you're asking to make this guy even stronger. Nope.

[Nept]

I don't want them to touch the thing until I see EXACTLY what the changes are.  They don't need to further gimp what's one of the worst mechs in the game, and I don't exactly trust them to keep the nuances of the current settings.

 

<Nept> I honestly don't want them to touch it because I don't want them to screw it up (more).  Odds are they would "fix" it by making the damage bonus not apply until the end of the zoom, and the accuracy bonus not apply until the end of the zoom.  Atm, the accuracy applies before it's fully scoped, and the damage applies immediately.  They change that, they're going to worsen one of the worst mechs in the game.  So I kinda just want them to leave it alone, or, if they're going to "fix" it, increase the zoom speed significantly while keeping the damage application immediately upon touching the zoom button.

 

<Nept> When does the accuracy bonus apply on the different fov's?

[00:44] <@Rei> Different times

[00:44] <Nept> You stated that it applies only after a full zoom, but that's not the case with a lower fov.

[00:44] <@Rei> at 110 it only applies after full zoom

[00:45] <Nept> Just don't ruin my timings, and I'm fine with it.

[00:45] <@Rei> lol well, 85 is the midpoint! So if you make that the standard, it won't!

[00:45] <Nept> yeah, but people are real stupid with balancing tweaks

[00:45] <@Rei> This... is true

 

[00:45] <Nept> I knew about all of this, minus the different zoom-in times, a looong time ago.  But I didn't make any posts because I was afraid they'd fuzzy bunny it up further.  So if they fuzzy bunny it up, I'm blaming you lol.

[00:46] <@Rei> Ok, I'll take blame.  Dead game, rip.

[00:46] <Nept> We're going to end up with an inaccurate sabot that requires full zoom across the different fov's, and that doesn't apply damage until full zoom.  10 bucks on that.

[00:46] <@Rei> pls no :(

 

[00:47] <@Rei> They need to make unscoped do normal damage tbh.  No reason for it not to.  Literally no reason.

[00:48] <Nept> I don't mind if unscoped does less damage - means you have to at least tap the scope to get full benefit.  I don't want them to tighten the sabot's unscoped cof either, because that's one of the few things that makes it difficult to aim or use.  If everyone could just spam cqc and mid-range sabot like they do with the reaper, it would lose a lot of the skill ceiling.

 

*Edited for legibility.

Edited by Nept, 13 June 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

[00:48] <Nept> it'd lose a lot of the skill ceiling

 

Floor. You motherless baboon. 

[Rei]

Modified the first post a little at the bottom.

 

Posting at 4AM is not fun though :V

[Elite_is_salty]

Modified the first post a little at the bottom.

 

Posting at 4AM is not fun though :V

 

It's 9:37 AM now and I'm yet to sleep.

 

"Sleep is overrated" - OmegaNull 2014

[WillyW]

Scope time is funky; you can actually scope in faster with a lower FoV setting. I don't know if this was intended or if it's desirable.

 

Yes, I noticed that as well. Works wonders. :D

[XPloyt]

My problems with the Sabot weapon, primarily the sharpshooter's to be exact is the following.

 

The spread on unscoped Sabot shots is awful. Here's a little graphic i made of 50 (sorry for a small sample, but it takes awhile) unscoped shots I fired 37 meters from a wall (pretty close range) 

video: 

 

 

The Damage reduction on unscoped Sabot shots, why have both increased spread AND reduced damage on this? I would say one or the other, but not both. A little overkill for short range combat.

 

 

At this range, you put a mech on that wall and you'd manage to land all your shots, and even if they were moving, keeping your cross-hair centered on them and would manage to do practically the same thing.

 

SS isn't so bad in close-quarters as a long range mech. You lose a litter power and accuracy up-close, and try to make up for it with spacing, pin-point accuracy and reflexes.

 

Forgive me Rei, but you knowing full-well this mech is easily capable of dominating the scoreboard and controlling space, how is a buff like this to the SS not biased considering this is seemingly your favorite mech?

 

Edit: Okay, maybe not in competitive play, but I don't even know if that can justify it.

 

It would also be another reason for botters to continue botting, just continuing to kill morale for the folks who still play, granted one day(months from now...ughh) this problem will be resolved.

Edited by XPloyt, 13 June 2015 - 05:01 AM.

[CraftyDus]

You peasantz need to scope like QuigJigz. Best sharpshooter since what's his nuts.

 

#NvrMiss

Edited by Crafty, 13 June 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[crockrocket]

You peasantz need to scope like QuigJigz. Best sharpshooter since what's his nuts.

 

#NvrMiss

This is the best example of snapping I've ever seen. Damn.

 

Back to topic, I don't think SS cqc needs to be improved. As it stands, an SS can fuzz up a lot of people's days if not countered. The counter to letting someone sit back and snipe is getting up close and personal. This makes sense, and imo it works.

[CrimsonKaim]

hawken logic: Uber high accuracy when flying, looking through a scope increases accuracy for a sniper rifle. This is due to the photons being pulled to the eye through the scope which makes the way clear for the projectile travelling now with a velocity of 9999999999999999999999 times sun-o-volume multiplied by mass of the univers meters per second.

 

 

And even if we would really have 7-legged double TOW unicorns of doom, nothing would change. 

Edited by FakeName, 14 June 2015 - 02:52 AM.