It's really not for me either, I respect the fact that people love it and the game itself but no matter how much I try I don't get why so many people enjoy it so much. I just get bored so fast when playing it, even with friends.
I dunno man CSGO just isn't that fun. I get how its competitive with learning, subtlety, massive playerbase, n all that jazz. But its gameplay isn't that fun.
This is now a CounterStrike thread.
Let me preface this by saying that apart from my roots in Halo 2, CS:GO is the only game outside of Hawken that I have a comparable number of hours put into. I have over a thousand in Hawken across all accounts, and over a thousand in CS:GO over three accounts. They're also the only games that I've put as much money as I have into.
First, some similarities.
In Hawken, you have mechs that you can choose between lives. Classes impact things like movement speed, weapon specifics, and utility (Items/internals). You make choices regarding your mech based on availability, preference, map, and what the enemy as well as your team is using.
In CS:GO, you have money that you earn during, and earn and spend between lives. Usage of money impacts things like movement speed, weapon specifics, and utility. You make choices regarding money (henceforth referenced as "the economy") based on availability, preference, map, and what the enemy as well as your team is using.
Both games give you fairly deep player customization options between lives, and you make these customizations for identical reasons.
In Hawken, your movement is based on the gameplay at hand and the mech you are using, and is composed of standard WASD, a run modifier that impacts weapon usage, a stand alone dodge modifier, and jump/flight.
In CS:GO, your movement is based on the gameplay at hand and the weapon you are using, and is composed of standard WASD, a run modifier that impacts weapon usage, a stand alone sneak modifier, and jump. Sorry. Can't fly. But you do get to make better use of cover by having a crouch option.
Also, when accounting for scale, the movement speed between both is quite comparable. Of course, Hawken has a greater variation in movement speed, but a walking B class is about the same (in my head at least) as walking around with a rifle equipped.
Both games give you an identical number of movement options - if we look at flight as separate in Hawken and air dodge as the same as regular dodge, or vice versa in terms of what's the same/what's not. (180 Spin is just a flick of the wrist in counter strike, so we won't include that at all.)
Also, neither game allows ironsight aiming.
So, at a pretty fundamental level, CS and Hawken are actually fairly similar. However a lot of these traits are shared by many different games, and in some sense one could make similar comparisons between any two FPS's. However in terms of movement - with a sneak option being the counter to Hawken's dodge, and a crouch option to Hawken's flight - the games are actually remarkably similar. Of course, the difference in use between sneak and dodge and crouch and flight is significant, and this creates some real differences in gameplay.
As an afterthought, both games have three health classes as well. A, B, and C for Hawken, each being progressively more armored, and unarmored, kevlar, and kevlar+helmet, each being progressively more armored.
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Differences. First and foremost is the game mode. Both have limited scope, and while Hawken has a few different game modes, unfortunately, none offer much more in terms of gameplay itself than Missile Assault - which is just a remake of territories or King of the Hill (super objectively the worst game mode to basically ever be a game mode). Counter Strike uses a form of reverse CTF as its primary game mode. Deliver a "flag" to a base and ensure its "capture". (The currently inactive hostage scenario missions are a direct modification of regular CTF.)
Say what you will, but I personally think Counter Strike has Hawken beat in terms of the level of engagement presented by the game mode itself.
Pace. Counter Strike is faster at its fastest, slower at its slowest. At it's fastest, whole rounds are decided and won in under five seconds. At its slowest, you're setting up for those five seconds, and in that time you still have to be actively anticipating your enemy's movements, re evaluating your setup based on observations and communication, and pinning parts of the enemy team down by tactically exposing yourself. Nothing ever lasts more than a minute and thirty seconds though, whereas in Hawken, you can hold a silo doing the exact same thing for literally an entire game.
Engagements are shorter in CS more often than not. While my style in Hawken is to acquire a kill within a second or two, and in CS, it's certainly possible to have engagements lasting five or more seconds, I can still shoot someone in the head with a pistol while running across the map in CS and have that make up the entirety of the engagement.
And for the record, Nept, doing so is for all observable purposes, done while moving, and a fair amount more difficult than shooting a giant glowing ball travelling in a straight line away from you with a perfectly accurate hitscan weapon. Nothing slow about it. Also anyone else could be just as elitist as you regarding the games they like because of whatever differences they have, but it won't make silly hyperbole accurate.
The fact is, in CS, you're always trying to strike a balance between the likelihood of your shot landing versus the likelihood of you getting shot. In essence, all of CS is burst play. It's all positioning.
So that brings me to something I hear a fair amount. "In CS, it's whoever sees their opponent first that wins."
Of course. In every FPS, including Hawken, knowing the whereabouts of your enemy, and being able to shoot first is a huge advantage (and in all games, including both CS and Hawken, it isn't everything and can be countered easily if you make the slightest mistake). But let's ignore that temporarily, and also ignore that in both Hawken and CS, if you see an enemy across the map and you're using a raider/shotgun, you're not actually at an advantage.
There's a massive skill ceiling to getting the first shot. If you just happen to see an enemy, you're caught off guard as much as they are, and if their back is to you, it's just luck. Same as anywhere else. You never want to just happen to see an enemy. You always want to be anticipating where they are based on sound, visible observation of utility or enemy players, map knowledge, radar, understanding of strategies, communication, and making stupidly quick inferences based on where you know other enemies are. There's a player that comes to mind that does this exceptionally well, called Get_Right (he throws in some goofy capitalization though). He's not an excellent shot, actually sprays his weapon more often than just tapping people in the head, he doesn't have superb reflexes, can't use the game's sniper rifles very well, but through all of this, at literally the highest level of play that CS has to offer, has an established 50/50 chance of winning rounds when it's just him versus two enemies. (For the record, his aim and reflexes are superb compared to most players - just sub par in the pro circuit.)
Seeing your enemy first is incredibly important. It's also incredibly difficult to do consistently.
All of this is before introducing the single best asymmetrical game balancing system that I've ever seen - and that is CS:GO's economy. Knowing how to use yours effectively and track your opponents in order to strong arm them into basically giving you a round is stupidly engaging, and absolutely thrilling when you overcome the odds. (If you're on a full save round, basically just equipped with basic pistols and a total lack of armor and utility, and you win against a team who's bought fully, there's no comparison in Hawken. It's just pure gold.)
I'm not going to spend any more time sticking up for Counter Strike on a Hawken forum, but if you don't like it, there are two non-exclusive reasons. Either it's just not for you, or you don't understand it. At my level of experience, I still learn something new every couple games. Chances are you fall into the latter category if you don't like it.
I mean, guys, I love Hawken. A lot. But like, Counter Strike is a fuzzy bunnyng legend LEGEND among games, and there's very good reason for that.
Cosh, this answers none of your questions. Kind of. I'd recommend UT for what you're looking for. Similar to CS, there's kind of a market domination for that genre filled by UT and Quake.
Edited by ticklemyiguana, 16 December 2015 - 03:47 PM.
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well go ahead and try thoughtlessly moving and talentlessly hosing with me and i'll go ahead and penalize the living bollocks out of you for it 
And if your next thought is "Well the game doesn't penalize you for those things.", my rebuttal would be "Why would i want it to?" I don't want the game punishing me for much of anything, if my enemy can punish me for it instead!
