137 replies to this topic

[ticklemyiguana]

#removethedelay

Only relevant post in the whole thread.

[CraftyDus]

While I never expected this to be a why cs is not as fun as whatever game you prefer, and only saw fit to address op's statement re: movement in cs as betraying the fact that he wasn't aware of a fundamental to basic cs movement usually aquired at a very low level in a player's progress, ie. 'stutter-step'.

 

After a few pages further into this it's clear to me many others here who would like us to believe they know a thing or two about one of the world's oldest and most popular competetive shooters, have failed to reveal they are aware of the universe that is devoted solely to the substantial cs movement purist scene that is bhop skate maps. In fact bhopping is probably beyond the scale of what most casual observers to the game have achieved, and requires a significant effort in order to string together 2 or 3 or more bunny hops.

 

You see that because csgo is source engine and derived from the developement of goldsource which itself is a quake engine with additional features, this skating mechanic that is cousin to movement purists in quake itself among other storied arena shooters.

I might also mention the cs bhp-map scene is much more popular than ut4 and Hawken combined. But then that perhaps, means very little. Unless you feel that movement above all else is what is most important to your gaming experience.

 

Here's F0rest a cs:go pro from the team Ninjas in Pajamas impressive nearly 5 minute bhop performance on a cs bhop movement purist map

 

 

Here's a movement guide for the completely unaware neophytes to bunny hopping (and especially op).

It is a learnable skill, but it takes a great deal of practice, and as most people know, it's nowhere near as easy as mastering movement in say.... Hawken.

[Hyginos]

 

In UT, there are no movement penalties and you move much faster, thus if you are caught out of position, it is far easier to return to it.

 

I remain unconvinced that movement speed (in which I include the mechanics that aid mobility) can determine how easy it is to recover from being out of position. In a game where everyone's movement options are the same, the movement mechanics you use to recover may be the same that the opponent uses to punish harder.

 

 

-CS has bunny hopping-

 

I can't find a way to type this that doesn't sound sarcastic, but it is a legitimate question:

 

What is the probability, in an actual game of CS, that I will have to combat a bhop based strat/play? I've seen that video of phoon doing bhop stuff, but other than that the bhop as a mechanic seems entirely insulated from, or at least unused in, any reasonably serious CS gunplay.

[PoopSlinger]

Also that video isn't CSGO.  The link you posted says they limit you to how fast you can go in csgo as well.

 

"Games like carl of duty, BF3 and global offensive are largely devoid of skill based movement."  "Call of duty is subjectively boring to watch.  The skill comes from memorization of spawns and maps and a relatively small amount of aim and reaction times."

 

This guy sums up what most of us are feeling.

 

EDIT:  Thought I'd mention video was from 2012, before titanfall and COD:AW/BLOPS3 added more movement options.

Edited by PoopSlinger, 18 December 2015 - 06:53 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Crafty, come play cs:go with me

Spoiler

 

The F0rest cs:S performance was included because it's bossaf, and he's an excellent cs:GO pro.

And because its an obvious kissing cousin to the UNIVERSE of quake surf maps, where movement is the goal.

 

Here's a 4 year old video of bhopping in GO

 

 

The air acceleration mechanic for the UNIVERSE of bhop maps still allows for velocities between 250-300 units/s in GO as is stated in the other video from the post that you quoted, but did not watch.

 

 

 

It's just to address people dissing cs movement while simultaneously completely unable to describe the fundamentals in cs movement worth mentioning, ie. stutter-step and bhop several days, and pages into a thread, and pretending to know what they are writing about cs movement.

 

The more you know.

 

I can understand that it was lost on op @ mge, and can accept that few, if any are bhopping at that rank in the 64-tic valve servers.

It is occasioanlly utilized at higher tier and higher tick-rate servers.

 

I'm making sure you people learn a little bit in your hurry to crap on a game you haven't spent much time playing, because it's clear to me that you might never know otherwise.

 

I know first hand it has a pace that can be frustrating and slow at times because of the nature of the more popular objective modes.

It's not for everybody. For many years I avoided it with a similar sentiment.

 

 

The fact will remain that there are movement options that quicken the speed available in cs:go despite the fact that none of it's critics in this thread have spent the time it might take to be aware of them.

 

 

I would recommend blops3 for its jet pack, wall running, baseball sliding movement.

It feels quick and fluid and plays like an excellent arena/mil sim hybrid.

But the servers are as bad as the company can get away with, so it's a trade-off.

 

 

TL;DR

 

you may not like cs, but there's bhopping, which is a thing

 

 

*edit

that "rise and fall of bhopping" youtuber-tool has ~24 hours in csgo and very little idea about what he's basing his terrible opinions on

Edited by CraftyDus, 18 December 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[CraftyDus]

I can't find a way to type this that doesn't sound sarcastic, but it is a legitimate question:

 

What is the probability, in an actual game of CS, that I will have to combat a bhop based strat/play?

 

You will never have to do anything like it. OP ranked to mge without having to know how to stutter step (which is very basic to movement in cs at some point).

You can rank to LE never having to use anything but pistols.

 

We are talking about having skill-based options be available as you progress in skill.

 

Furthermore there aren't much in the way of movement penelaties for some weapons available to everyone in the game.

Which further erodes the premise that one has to stop moving for the sake of accuracy.

 

This is only true of some of the guns available.

 

Most SMG's, and pistols such as the tec-9 are at their best while you are moving, and are balanced on their lower damage values.

The scout rifle and the mag-7 shot-gun are notable for their accuracy while jumping and yet retaining a high damage.

 

What's great about being able to string together a few bhops is how good the reward for learning the skill to take advantage of the cumultive air-acceleration speed and throwing off the enemy team's sense of timing where you will be predicted to be (game-sense).

 

What's notable to me is the (dis)ability of the casual observer to recognize it when pros are doing it in matches.

 

I see it a few times a day at the badge/eagle level that I'm playing at these days on client matches (128-tick private), but rarely in valve's pub servers because of the low 64-tick rate makes accurate timing of it onerous.

[Nept]

Compare this:

 

to this:

 

And try not to laugh.

 

Noone's arguing that there aren't intricacies to CS' movement.  They're arguing that CS' movement is slow in comparison to other games.  Which it is.  Not sure why you're picking this hill to die on.

[CraftyDus]

 

And try not to laugh.

 

 

 

I love you dude, but I got you by the short and curlies here.

You insist your team-mates play cs:go to improve their aim.....while building the pentultimate trove base.

How dare you

 

compare this 

 

 

to this

 

 

and try not to laugh

[Nept]

http://images.akamai...7706AFF026D0B9/

[CoshCaust]

Also, sorry to Cosh for the derail. I did give you two cents in my last post. If a more "shooter" type of shooter isn't to your liking, (as in you're more into the idea of piloting something, rather than the specific mechanics hawken houses.) maybe a space sim would be more up your alley. Flying is pretty important in a dog fight, which connects with the whole "movement during combat" concept.

Yeah i've been looking at Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen for a while...

 

Nah no worries, happy to create the place for a debate :)

Unless it's going nowhere...i wouldn't know; no way in fuzzy bunny i'm reading all this :)

[Xacius]

 

Also, Xacius, 100 hours across four titles spread out across 16 years is kind of not an adequate supply of knowledge to be arguing what I perceive you to be arguing. Granted, I have a comparable amount spread across my movement based arena shooter titles - Hawken excluded (and also completely irrelevant but I admire your dedication to showing how well you can play video games) - however, I'm not the one making claims that require extraordinary evidence. Stating that a game is unarguably improved in terms of its skill requirements just because you increase the movement speed, is something of an extraordinary claim.

 

100 hours was more than enough time to determine that CS is fuzzy bunnyng slow in comparison to other shooters.  

 

To put it bluntly, you're a moron if you think that CS's movement is even remotely fast in comparison to shooters with double or triple the movement speed.  I'm really not sure if you're just trolling or are actually to the notion that CS is comparable to other shooters in terms of movement speed.  If the latter is the case, then I'd be curious to know how you function in daily life and manage to breathe.  

 

Then again, there are billions of morons on this planet, and most of them seem to breathe just fine.  I guess one more doesn't make much of a difference.  

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Xac.  Bad Christmas?  The last two sentences weren't really needed.

[ticklemyiguana]

100 hours was more than enough time to determine that CS is fuzzy bunnyng slow in comparison to other shooters.  

 

To put it bluntly, you're a moron if you think that CS's movement is even remotely fast in comparison to shooters with double or triple the movement speed.  I'm really not sure if you're just trolling or are actually to the notion that CS is comparable to other shooters in terms of movement speed.  If the latter is the case, then I'd be curious to know how you function in daily life and manage to breathe.  

 

Then again, there are billions of morons on this planet, and most of them seem to breathe just fine.  I guess one more doesn't make much of a difference.  

Merry Christmas, you schmuck!

 

(so salty over video games. Tsk tsk. Also I'm not reading through this again, but goodness your reading comprehension skills are low if that's what you think I said.)

 

"Number 1 computer game player responds to dead argument one week later to baselessly insult prominent community member." Sorry if your Christmas sucked, but my sympathy machine is running dry. Thanks for the giggle fit though!

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 25 December 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[Xacius]

Merry Christmas, you schmuck!

 

(so salty over video games. Tsk tsk. Also I'm not reading through this again, but goodness your reading comprehension skills are low if that's what you think I said.)

 

"Number 1 computer game player responds to dead argument one week later to baselessly insult prominent community member." Sorry if your Christmas sucked, but my sympathy machine is running dry. Thanks for the giggle fit though!

 

I just found it funny that you stopped responding to the thread after your baseless stance was dismantled.  

 

Acting as the fuzzy bunny that I usually am, I decided to call you out on your bullshite.  Merry Christmas, you incompetent drunk.  

Edited by Xacius, 25 December 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[Xacius]

Xac.  Bad Christmas?  The last two sentences weren't really needed.

 

Great Christmas.  I've simply made it a point to fuzzy bunny with Tickle.  I get enjoyment out of correcting silly skrubs that think they're knowledgeable about an area in which they know next to nothing about.  Call me a d1ck, but it's certainly entertaining.  

[ticklemyiguana]

I just found it funny that you stopped responding to the thread after your baseless stance was dismantled.  

 

Acting as the fuzzy bunny that I usually am, I decided to call you out on your bullshite.  Merry Christmas, you incompetent drunk.  

I find it humorous that you think that I didn't reply, and in the same post describe me as incompetent. If you're going to be a total inflamed nipple, at least try to be a nuisance.

 

Great Christmas.  I've simply made it a point to fuzzy bunny with Tickle.  I get enjoyment out of correcting silly skrubs that think they're knowledgeable about an area in which they know next to nothing about.  Call me a d1ck, but it's certainly entertaining.  

Humorous for identical reasons, as I make it a point to fuzzy bunny with people with elitist attitudes that have a hard time putting their pants on the right way, let alone expounding on a complex discussion with more than absolutist and irrelevant statements while simultaneously managing to avoid personal offense when the crowning achievement of all 8 of their neurons is politely disagreed with.

 

Good luck "fuzzy bunnyng" with someone that doesn't take you seriously though. You're food, and it's plain as day that you care significantly more about this (unwarranted personal insults, literally changing your whole signature to reflect the critical salt levels over there (good grief, at least show me you actually read the conversation - your signature indicates otherwise)), so you have your warning as far as "fuzzy bunnyng" with someone on this subject, you wholesome salty snack.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 25 December 2015 - 10:11 PM.

[crockrocket]

What the flying fuzzy bunny did this thread turn into 

[ticklemyiguana]

What the flying fuzzy bunny did this thread turn into 

A large cat.

[CoshCaust]

What the flying fuzzy bunny did this thread turn into 

[Aregon]

It somewhat scares me remembering that the hawkens population is actually pretty old, because discussions like this tells otherwise.

Guys, keep the discussion civil. And for both parts, if you find the other to be wrong, don't try come up with a form to insult them. It makes us all look bad, at least if you are the supposedly "best player in the game". I support Tickle here, as he came with personal opinions and came with statements he backed up from his experience and personal knowledge. And if the 2, he is the most 'normal', as he seems to aim to just play for having fun and enjoyment, and not to be one of the absolute best in it. I've also discussed with Tickle before (under a smurf account though ofc), and must say I actually found him taking it very maturity, even if I could have been better myself imo.

Anyway guys, just calm down and excuse each other. You're flaming over a bunch of 1's and 0's who do not perform anything vital at all, just a sake of entertainment.

[Hyginos]

Anyway guys, just calm down and excuse each other. You're flaming over a bunch of 1's and 0's who do not perform anything vital at all, just a sake of entertainment.

 

VIDYA GAMES ARE IMPURTANT YA CASUL!

[ticklemyiguana]

Anyway guys, just calm down and excuse each other. You're flaming over a bunch of 1's and 0's who do not perform anything vital at all, just a sake of entertainment.

Yeah, but my insults are funny and clever and reason enough to keep this going! I'll suffer being called a moron a few more times for the opportunity.

Ugh. Uuuuuuughhhhhhhh. You're right though, of course, but I can't exactly cover up how silly I think it is that anyone would get that heated over something they apparently didn't even read - or the fact that they would publicly display it in every post they make on any topic on the forums.

Xacius, I can't pretend to have much respect for you based on you throwing a fit against a point that was never made, and clarified upon repeatedly, but I respect this community enough to discontinue any discussion on the topic until you can make a post indicating you're capable of reading someone's post before replying to it - this post notwithstanding.
Edit: apparently I'm really not all that capable of that.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 December 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[schooljeep]

Let's all agree never to be constructive again.

[Xacius]

KEY: 

 

Tickle: example text  

Glorious Xacius: example text

 

In UT, there are no movement penalties and you move much faster, thus if you are caught out of position, it is far easier to return to it.

Wrong.  I suppose this shows exactly how little you know about UT.  In UT, most weapons influence the movement of enemy players.  Rockets force the player in a certain direction, the Shock Rifle and Ball jolt the player on hit and stop their movement, and the Link Gun is a fuzzy bunnyng nuisance as it continuously fuzzy bunnys with your movement on hit. 

 

 I also felt that was pretty obvious, but Xacius' response again, indicated that it was not, citing that the increase in movement speed allowed an enemy to take advantage of you being out of position faster.

So, let's clarify. What is "in position"? Generally speaking, at least in terms of objective based game modes, there is an offensive team, and a defending team. Whether that's a whole team or just a segment of it while the rest of your team does something else is irrelevant.
On offense, in position means being at a particular point at a particular time so that you can complete a particular action. Generally, that action does not involve dying, though it certainly can, and I suppose since it's much easier to die in CS, that could be taken as it being easier to complete an objective where you die. Score 1 for UT.

 

Listening to you explain this is like reading a 5 year old try to relate their understanding of the universe.  

 

Let’s take a look at your verbiage:

“On offense, in position means being at a particular point at a particular time so that you can complete a particular action. Generally, this action does not involve dying, though it certainly can…”

 

That is the most general, noncontributory statement I’ve ever fuzzy bunnyng read. 

 

However, more often than not, being in position offensively involves utilizing utility or covering someone who is using utility, or countering a rotation from the rest of the enemy team, or just being in the least vulnerable position to attack a very specific angle.

 

This is slightly more relevant, but still needs more detail. Give an example.  How does this pertain to a particular scenario, like assaulting a base in capture the flag? 

 

On defense, in position means the same generally speaking, except you have no real obligation to move unless things are going wrong.

 

K, I can see that, at least from the perspective of CS.  So, in CS, you have no real obligation to move unless things are going wrong.  This is generally not the case in Unreal Tournament.  Since the movement speed is so fast, and the player has so many movement options available, they’re generally going to be moving if they plan to stay alive.  This is partly due to the unrestricted aiming.  Since we’ve already established that, the faster a target moves, the more difficult they are to hit (especially when directional variance comes into play), it’s safe to assume that staying on the move is a good idea in faster games.   In UT, standing is often the worst possible idea.  Good defenders will constantly be moving around the flag/base to mix up their defensive positions.  Sure, the enemy attacks may know that you’re in the base, but they won’t know exactly where you are if you keep moving. 

 

How exactly then, does increased movement speed make it harder for the attacking team to be in position? If you're over exposed, you can get back to cover much faster. if you're not adequately covering your teammate from the defending players, you can get there faster, and your teammate can retreat faster.

 

At least in Unreal Tournament, a well-structured defense involves covering a given area efficiently.   Because movement speed is faster overall, and you’re essentially stuck defending a given point, it’s harder for the defending side to properly anticipate a strike or effectively cover an area than it is in CS.   Generally, there are only 3-4 entries into a given base on a given map.  Since the movement model is so varied, however, these entry-points are not as easily defended.  Attacking players can dodge in off of a wall or sprint in at max speed (at least in the new UT).  The variance of movement options is so considerable that it becomes nearly impossible to predict an attacking player’s approach without having played them previously.  And even then, the amount of approach options is staggeringly high in comparison to other shooters, so that player could easily mix up their movement in response to a given approach not working.

 

This brings into question a considerable degree of uncertainty that isn’t present in other titles.   I won’t get too much into the science behind it, but in summation human reaction time suffers considerably in the face of uncertainty.  A relevant example: in the context of defending a point, it’s far more difficult to react both quickly and accurately when you don’t know where the enemy is going to be approaching from.   They could dodge in from entrance A after shooting grenades in from B to fake an approach on the opposite side.  Fast movement is a huge factor here, as it allows a single player to vary their approach within the confines of the map and match time.

 

Something was said along the lines of faster speed allowing the defending team to adjust position to take advantage of that, but that's wholly irrelevant in my experience, as both teams move at the same speed, and if the defending team has to adjust, first of all this gives the attacking team time to adjust, and also that would mean the defending team is also out of position - and the result here is the engagement continues and position becomes irrelevant in favor of less position based skills, or both teams have a really easy time getting back into position and the game resumes as normal. All in all, my experience leads me to believe that faster speeds, and certainly the lack of hitstun, actually lowers the skill ceiling in terms of position based skill.
 

Here you’ve proposed a scenario that fits your viewpoint, but makes little sense.  You state that, in order for a defending team to have to respond to an attacking team’s movement, they’d be out of position in the first place.  I completely disagree, especially in the context of games where the defending side actually moves around the defense point (ala UT and Quake).  See the former section for my explanation.  For the unaware, sitting still in UT is the worst possible option.  You’re essentially a sitting duck.  In Counter Strike, it’s beneficial because aiming accurately while moving isn’t possible.  The movement-induced spread is too big of a penalty.   

 

As for the “lack of hitstun,” you’re completely wrong on that account.  There’s considerable hitstun in Unreal Tournament.

Edited by Xacius, 27 December 2015 - 10:24 PM.

[Aregon]

Well Tickle at least tried to stop this, so kudos to that.

[Nept]

CounterStrike is slow.  Enough with the drama.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

words

Considering all of this, would you please mind pointing out where I said that speed has no impact at all on the skill ceiling? My entire argument isn't structured around CS being "faster" than UT, and at no point did I say that. It was about countering this:

 

Games with more movement, as you've even agreed to, have higher skill ceilings.

And then after giving you a chance to back out of the absolutist statement, doubling down with this:

 

 

 

Movement is a huge factor when it comes to a game's skill ceiling, especially an FPS.  Are you just trolling, or do you actually, seriously believe that movement speed doesn't factor into the skill-ceiling of a game?    

And basically the rest of the thread has been me trying to explain to you that movement isn't the end-all be-all if the skill ceiling of an FPS game, while simultaneously trying to tell you that what you've seriously misinterpreted what I said initially - that at no point did I say movement doesn't factor into the skill ceiling of a game. I opted to go the direct route, in providing examples of how it could actually decrease it in some areas, but I just as well could have gone the route of:

"There's more to skill ceiling than how hard it is to shoot an enemy that you already see, and different games play with the other stuff in different ways, leaving a lot of room for the skill ceiling to be raised or lowered based on factors that have nothing to do with shooting. Therefore a game isn't necessarily more difficult than another game simply because one has higher movement speed."

I believe I voiced that a alone time or two in different ways, but the argument persisted, so I assumed you understood my point, and were simply not addressing it.

 

I am having kind of a hard time understanding what or who you're trying to argue against, I just have the foggiest notion that you're trying to insult me in some way. But kudos to you for coming up with something a little more original, even if you did have to consult Nept to make it. I'm actually a little surprised that between the both of you combing this thread for all the ripe cherries, you still missed basically everything I said.

 

It's also worth pointing out that one of my last responses attempted to clarify the discussion point by point, but at that point you left the thread for a week before returning to say irrelevant things.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 27 December 2015 - 10:30 PM.

[Xacius]

Considering all of this, would you please mind pointing out where I said that speed has no impact at all on the skill ceiling?

What?  Seriously? 

 

 

Movement is just a single aspect of a game and is not the sole determining factor of the game's final skill ceiling - in fact I find it to be kind of negligible in terms of a games skill ceiling,

You're doing it again.  That thing that makes me angry and want to insult your intelligence.   Pay attention.  

 

 

And basically the rest of the thread has been me trying to explain to you that movement isn't the end-all be-all if the skill ceiling of an FPS game, while simultaneously trying to tell you that what you've seriously misinterpreted what I said initially - that at no point did I say movement doesn't factor into the skill ceiling of a game. I opted to go the direct route, in providing examples of how it could actually decrease it in some areas,

No one here has been claiming that movement speed is the end-all-be-all determining factor of an FPS game's skill ceiling.  No one has even remotely come close to saying that.  You've simply assumed (incorrectly) that that was our (re: me, nept's) stance.   Additionally, multiple people have responded to your silly "examples" of higher movement speed supposedly taking away from the skill ceiling of a game.    The consensus has been unanimously against your silly notions.  Read the responses and adequately respond before you accuse me of doing the same to your post.  You've yet to even address my most recent post.  

 

but I just as well could have gone the route of:

"There's more to skill ceiling than how hard it is to shoot an enemy that you already see, and different games play with the other stuff in different ways, leaving a lot of room for the skill ceiling to be raised or lowered based on factors that have nothing to do with shooting. Therefore a game isn't necessarily more difficult than another game simply because one has higher movement speed."

Again, we understand that there are more factors at play than just movement speed.  However, in terms of raw mechanical aim, games with faster movement have higher skill ceilings, at least concerning mechanical aim.  It's harder to consistently hit a target that's moving faster than a target that is standing still.  You've agreed to this.  The notion that harder == higher skill ceiling is also a pretty silly one to argue against.  

 

 

I am having kind of a hard time understanding what or who you're trying to argue against, I just have the foggiest notion that you're trying to insult me in some way. But kudos to you for coming up with something a little more original, even if you did have to consult Nept to make it.

Consult with Nept?  Here you go again with your silly assumptions.  I've been away on vacation since the 22nd.  Haven't been on TS since then.  This argument has been my own to make.  We've certainly discussed your responses, but it's mainly been along the lines of how you're either A) completely disregarding our responses or 2) substituting your incorrect notion of our side of the argument for what we're actually saying.  

 

Solid 5/7 numbering system on my part.  More relevantly, there has been no consultation with Nept since last week when I had him explain how uncertainty factors into reaction times.  

 

I did mention how much of an annoying fuzzy bunny you were being, though.  So kudos to you for being that much of a nuisance.  

 

 

It's also worth pointing out that one of my last responses attempted to clarify the discussion point by point, but at that point you left the thread for a week before returning to say irrelevant things. 

Your clarification attempts amounted to you wrongly assuming that we've taken a particular stance, while simultaneously disregarding what we actually said.  Please respond adequately to my most recent post (not this one) if you're actually serious about continuing the discussion.  Otherwise, I see no point in continuing this clusterfuzzy bunny of a thread.  

Edited by Xacius, 27 December 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

 

 Ho-leee fuzzy bunny. I am so far beyond this. Is English a second language for you? Nothing wrong with that, but it would really explain a lot. I'm not going to clarify it again. I've done it numerous times, your words are there, your signature is still there, fully and completely solidifying the point that you have no idea at all what I said, I've explained exactly what my perception of the argument is on multiple occasions, and all the words are still there to support that, yet you're still attempting to say that basically none of that happened and that I said things that I didn't, so, I'm just. just. not. If you're still this confused, I really, I don't know what to say to you.

 

Nuisance? Annoying? Christ, find a mirror. Insult my intelligence? I would consider it a great success if you didn't manage to make more of a fool of yourself in the attempt.

 

 

Consult with Nept?  Here you go again with your silly assumptions.

Heehhhhhhhh. Good luck convincing anyone of that.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 December 2015 - 01:01 AM.

[DerMax]

This is a fun thread. I wish there were more like this one.

 

Also, a lot of Crafty being Crafty here. (I mean, seriously dude, is sarcasm your mother tongue or something?)

[Nept]

Heehhhhhhhh. Good luck convincing anyone of that.

 

Yeah, well, he hasn't consulted me.  I wasn't aware that this thread had continued until earlier today.

 

Xacius, enough.

 

Tickle, I know you're pretending you've moral high ground, but you're pulling the exact same crap as Xacius. 

[ticklemyiguana]

This is a fun thread. I wish there were more like this one.

It is, isn't it? So few people can sling poop adequately these days. I haven't had so much fun since the last time I spoke with a Donald Trump supporter.

Tickle, I know you're pretending you've moral high ground, but you're pulling the exact same crap as Xacius.

Morals? But Nept, you flatter me. I just do all this stuff better, which makes Xacius' signature false on two counts!

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 December 2015 - 02:33 AM.

[Xacius]

 Ho-leee fuzzy bunny. I am so far beyond this. Is English a second language for you? Nothing wrong with that, but it would really explain a lot. I'm not going to clarify it again. I've done it numerous times, your words are there, your signature is still there, fully and completely solidifying the point that you have no idea at all what I said, I've explained exactly what my perception of the argument is on multiple occasions, and all the words are still there to support that, yet you're still attempting to say that basically none of that happened and that I said things that I didn't, so, I'm just. just. not. If you're still this confused, I really, I don't know what to say to you.

 

Has no response for the aforementioned post.

"I'm so far beyond this."

 

Incapable of adequately responding to counterpoints.

"Your words are there your signature is still there, fully and completely solidifying the point that you have no idea at all what I said."

 

I responded to what you posted.  All you've done so far is 1) respond to a tiny part of my post that offended you and 2) completely ignore the remainder of my response to your argument.  

 

I mean, look at this: 

 

 

Considering all of this, would you please mind pointing out where I said that speed has no impact at all on the skill ceiling?

What?  Seriously? 

 

 

Movement is just a single aspect of a game and is not the sole determining factor of the game's final skill ceiling - in fact I find it to be kind of negligible in terms of a games skill ceiling,

You're doing it again.  That thing that makes me angry and want to insult your intelligence.   Pay attention.  

 

We were discussing movement, specifically how speed impacts the skill ceiling of a game.  Speed and movement are directly related.  By stating that movement is negligible in regards to a game's skill ceiling, you are essentially making the point that the speed of movement is also negligible, as speed is a modifier for movement.  

 

All that you've proven is that you're incapable of responding to my assessments.  Instead, you completely changed the topic (yet again).  Either you're trolling, or you really don't have a response on-topic.  

 

 

Even more, your statement: 

And basically the rest of the thread has been me trying to explain to you that movement isn't the end-all be-all if the skill ceiling of an FPS game, while simultaneously trying to tell you that what you've seriously misinterpreted what I said initially - that at no point did I say movement doesn't factor into the skill ceiling of a game. I opted to go the direct route, in providing examples of how it could actually decrease it in some areas,

My response: 

No one here has been claiming that movement speed is the end-all-be-all determining factor of an FPS game's skill ceiling.  No one has even remotely come close to saying that.  You've simply assumed (incorrectly) that that was our (re: me, nept's) stance.   Additionally, multiple people have responded to your silly "examples" of higher movement speed supposedly taking away from the skill ceiling of a game.    The consensus has been unanimously against your silly notions.  Read the responses and adequately respond before you accuse me of doing the same to your post.  You've yet to even address my most recent post.  

No response from you yet.  You're too busy complaining about something unrelated.  

 

At least respond to my post, ffs.  You claim that you're the one trying to have a reasonable conversation, yet you're the only one in this thread actively avoiding any rational discussion.  

 

If you're "so far beyond this," then why are you the only one still behaving like a child?  

Edited by Xacius, 31 December 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Aregon]

Oh for feth`s sake Xacius just shut up, no one cares anymore.

[Xacius]

Oh for feth`s sake Xacius just shut up, no one cares anymore.

Well look at you, taking the moral high ground.  

[Aregon]

Well look at you, taking the moral high ground.  

Not really my point, but this discussion will lead to nothing except the closure of this thread, for really no good reason. We clearly see both parts don`t plan to stop because they think the other is right either, so why not just leave it at be like grown ups?

[ticklemyiguana]

You've missed most points I've made so far. I have no idea why you're still responding to this - and days later to boot.

I don't say this much, but get a life.

 

Heh heh vvvvvv

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 31 December 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[Xacius]

Loses at argument, then says opponent needs to get a life.

Oh well. I tried. If it's any consolation, I apologize for the defamatory remarks. Looks like they dug a bit too deep.

Glhf

[ticklemyiguana]

I can do that too!

 

Loses argument, tells opponent he lost, pretends he said things.

 

Happy New Year!

(What is it with you and holidays?)

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 31 December 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Hyginos]

Xacius is suffering from withdrawal as he's been away from his gaming rig for a while, and Tickle, as always, is at least a few drinks in.