57 replies to this topic

[DallasCreeper]

Whoever you are, you cheeky fuzzy bunny, you have brought down the wrath of the Explosive Texan who isn't from Texas and your experience will be sweet like acid and as warm as the Arctic Circle. Seriously though, who are you(i actually have a pretty good idea) and what is the problem you seem to associate with me(what is it)?

Edited by DallasCreeper, 23 January 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[HubbaBubba9849]

Please

Spoiler

[DallasCreeper]

Trolls need to eat too

Edited by DallasCreeper, 23 January 2016 - 07:46 PM.

[SS396]

Do they eat rolls?

[DallasCreeper]

Maybe, but I believe salt is a major staple of their diet

[Aregon]

And this is why you never use I and l in a name of an avatar in a game.

[DallasCreeper]

Lesson learned?

Spoiler

Alternate username in the extremely rare chance DallasCreeper is taken is Rollos. I should change it to that.  

Edited by DallasCreeper, 23 January 2016 - 08:10 PM.

[SS396]

Maybe, but I believe salt is a major staple of their diet

So soft pretzels then?

Wait wait wait, I'm still waiting for this explosive Texan from Jersey named Tiggs to show up. Kappa.

In the meantime. I'm laughing at the similarity to this.
 

[PsychedelicGrass]

Huh. I was told today by two different people that someone is doing the same for me, making alts with similar spelling and hacking


People are lame :/

Who do you think it is? PM it to me if you'd prefer.

[Silverfire]

I saw an alt of PsychedeiiicGrass out there, hacking. submitted a ticket.

 

Saw DailasCreeper too.

 

It's quite dumb because the hacker isn't even trying very hard, and is still failing miserably at winning

[ATX22]

Impersonation is pretty **** lame and all, but isn't this still a call-out thread?  And giving trolls what they want?

 

I'm not reporting or anything, just, meh, whatever.

[Amidatelion]

Who the fuzzy bunny would impersonate you?

[crockrocket]

Who the fuzzy bunny would impersonate you?

I'm assuming it's because of this comment

[-Tj-]

I'm assuming it's because of this comment

Very likely. Said person didn't like that they'd been outed, and given the fact that someone with a very similar name appeared shortly after that comment, it's pretty obvious what's going on.

[Aregon]

All this crap can only really have escalated to this point because both parts have done and said dumb things, and not trying to potentially solve it with communication. Dunno if I speak for a deaf ear about this, but to just blame one side for all problems (not that OP may have done that, I don't follow on all the mile-long discussions that end in flames) will just keep making it worse.

Edited by Sir Aregon, 24 January 2016 - 04:12 AM.

[crockrocket]

All this crap can only really have escalated to this point because both parts have done and said dumb things, and not trying to potentially solve it with communication. Dunno if I speak for a deaf ear about this, but to just blame one side for all problems (not that OP may have done that, I don't follow on all the mile-long discussions that end in flames) will just keep making it worse.

 

The only guilty party here is the hacker

[Nightfirebolt]

It only takes one person to piss in the pool.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if our spate of rampant hacking comes down to only a few bitter select individuals (or perhaps even just one) with ten dozen alts.

Edited by Nightfirebolt, 24 January 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[SS396]

Very likely. Said person didn't like that they'd been outed, and given the fact that someone with a very similar name appeared shortly after that comment, it's pretty obvious what's going on.

 

I'm actually not fully convinced it isn't someone else capitalizing on the opportunity to use a bit of good old David Copperfield misdirection.  What if this person wanted you to think it was who you instantly assumed it was?

 

The only thing thats obvious is that they read the forums and maybe reddit.  

 

I'm beginning to wonder if our spate of rampant hacking comes down to only a few bitter select individuals (or perhaps even just one) with ten dozen alts.

 

Well, I doubt that all of the hacking in Hawken is only one person using many accounts.  Apparently the aimbot software is easily acquired, even well known "model" community members have installed and used this software in the past.  And blah blah blah about I only used it for testing or whatever, doesn't matter, you knowingly downloaded and used cheat software for Hawken, and thats a fact, so don't even bother with responding you know who you are.  You won't convince me otherwise.

 

Either way, if Reloaded wanted to completely stop this instantly they could.  I feel that they don't really want to get involved even though these cheaters are basically running rampant with no repercussions.  It reminds me of how they dealt with the gore spammer on the forums, instead of being proactive and preventing this sort of thing in the future, they rely on all of us to report it when it happens, and then just clean it up after the fact and hope the person goes away on their own.

 

What I'd like to see instead of resetting known cheaters accounts, just nuke them entirely for good, and nuke every account thats ever been associated with that IP address too.  Then block that IP address from any future contact both ingame and on the forums.  While we are at it, ban the steam account from the game.  https://support.stea...=6899-IOSK-9514

 

Yeah, its heavy handed, but in order to make an omelette you gotta break a few eggs.  String em up so that others can see and decide for themselves if they think its worth it.

[Silverfire]

 

Either way, if Reloaded wanted to completely stop this instantly they could.  I feel that they don't really want to get involved even though these cheaters are basically running rampant with no repercussions.  It reminds me of how they dealt with the gore spammer on the forums, instead of being proactive and preventing this sort of thing in the future, they rely on all of us to report it when it happens, and then just clean it up after the fact and hope the person goes away on their own.

 

What I'd like to see instead of resetting known cheaters accounts, just nuke them entirely for good, and nuke every account thats ever been associated with that IP address too.  Then block that IP address from any future contact both ingame and on the forums.  While we are at it, ban the steam account from the game.  https://support.stea...=6899-IOSK-9514

 

Yeah, its heavy handed, but in order to make an omelette you gotta break a few eggs.  String em up so that others can see and decide for themselves if they think its worth it.

 

josh pls

[HOHOHOSANTA]

lol I have video footage somewhere in my stream of 2 botters going at it. Impurath and Dal1ascreeper, both changing settings in their hacks to go even faster, the funny thing is theres a speed limit in the game so once you go so fast, you get auto booted from Hawken. both got booted during game

[ticklemyiguana]

On the subject of hacking:

While it should be apparent that cheating is bad, going about and banning hackers and the like may not be the best thing to do at the moment. Sure it sucks, but if Reloaded is playing their hand as close to the chest as I think they are, then at some point there will be a re-release. Before that time, it's likely updates will be largely minimal. As I've stated god knows how many times, we don't need more players right now - and Reloaded refusing to advertise the game or trying to bring on new players is a good thing, both financially and in terms of my hopes for them being opposed to squeezing every dime from the game with minimal effort.

On the exact same token, fighting off hackers takes resources - but furthermore, encourages developers of these cheats to make them more complex to avoid detection. Going down that route at present will not only take time and money in the immediate development process - but also ensures an ever-escalating uphill battle that the game simply does not need to fight right now.

Putting minimal effort into fighting cheaters at this point in time is beneficial for similar reasons to the benefits of not advertising. Both represent financial sinkholes that can only grow exponentially without the game being in the proper state.

 

That's all.

[-Tj-]

I'm actually not fully convinced it isn't someone else capitalizing on the opportunity to use a bit of good old David Copperfield misdirection.  What if this person wanted you to think it was who you instantly assumed it was?

 

I've thought about that, but given all the evidence thus far, there's only one truly logical explanation. If someone really wanted to make it look like someone else was doing it, they could also just have easily made similar-looking accounts to the person in question and done exactly the same thing... but they didn't. Instead, we saw names like "DailasCreeper" and "PsychediiicGrass" pop up and intentionally show off that they were using hacks. "Look at me! See my name? I'm hacking! Screw you!"

 

I was also called out last night by a long-time known cheater who is apparently quite good friends with the person I'm referring to here. This 'new' player also apparently has made "114"-ish accounts to get around being banned so many times. What did this person do? They came into the game, activated cheats as an SS, and started messing with everyone in their friend's name, sort of a retribution of sorts, but one that made everything so much clearer (nice job).

 

So we have at least two cheaters in the game that know each other and play with each other and have now become, or have been for a while, partners in crime. They're both attention whores, so stirring things up is exactly what I would expect them to do.

 

One other thing, I found it quite interesting that this happened very shortly after a few matches where the entire server was so fed up with someone cheating in the match that we all focused our guns on them. Oh how I wish I could just name names and show all the evidence. Dammit, forum rules!

 

Well, I doubt that all of the hacking in Hawken is only one person using many accounts.

 

I doubt it's one person as well. However, I do feel that there's a sizable number of accounts that are the same handful of people who just want to cheat the hell out of the game because they enjoy the suffering of others, can't be bothered to actually "git gud," and/or just. "Some people just want to watch the world burn."

 

Edit:

Also, if it's true that DailasCreeper said that some hack site posted something on 4chan regarding a monetary reward, but no such thing ever happened, that sounds a lot like the made-up stories I've heard from the person in question before, the very same person who has routinely stated that they've recorded players cheating and they have a ton of videos proving it (including a lot of me), yet no one has ever seen these videos.

Edited by -Tj-, 24 January 2016 - 09:01 PM.

[KejiGoto]

On the subject of hacking:

While it should be apparent that cheating is bad, going about and banning hackers and the like may not be the best thing to do at the moment. 

 

I was a fan of how East handled a few cases of cheating where he would nuke their MMR so low (like -9000) that they couldn't be sorted into any matches and then would set their credits to -300,000 so even if they did get into a match they wouldn't ever earn a thing. Eventually they would get tired of trying to play because every time this would happen to their account if they made a new one and they'd leave. 

 

Much more frustrating for the cheater when they can't get a match and aren't really sure what's going on. I remember a few of them even came on the forums to ask if their was a glitch to set their MMR into the negatives. Pretty funny stuff.

[Ashfire908]

I was a fan of how East handled a few cases of cheating where he would nuke their MMR so low (like -9000) that they couldn't be sorted into any matches and then would set their credits to -300,000 so even if they did get into a match they wouldn't ever earn a thing. Eventually they would get tired of trying to play because every time this would happen to their account if they made a new one and they'd leave. 

 

Much more frustrating for the cheater when they can't get a match and aren't really sure what's going on. I remember a few of them even came on the forums to ask if their was a glitch to set their MMR into the negatives. Pretty funny stuff.

 

Wasn't that Defter/TJ/etc? From convos I had with East, he came at it from the reverse angle.

[Arkhaun]

I was a fan of how East handled a few cases of cheating where he would nuke their MMR so low (like -9000) that they couldn't be sorted into any matches and then would set their credits to -300,000 so even if they did get into a match they wouldn't ever earn a thing. Eventually they would get tired of trying to play because every time this would happen to their account if they made a new one and they'd leave. 

 

Much more frustrating for the cheater when they can't get a match and aren't really sure what's going on. I remember a few of them even came on the forums to ask if their was a glitch to set their MMR into the negatives. Pretty funny stuff.

oh keji gotta love cheaters when they "prosper" right?

[KejiGoto]

Wasn't that Defter/TJ/etc? From convos I had with East, he came at it from the reverse angle.

 

Maybe I am getting them confused, I was speaking with a few people back then about several things and would regularly have a good laugh in Steam chat about things like that. Typically would either hit up Vana, Defter, Zamboni, or East depending who was on and what they were doing whenever I encountered something like that.

 

Regardless of who it was I'm always a fan of more creative punishments like that which make it a frustrating experience for those breaking the rules. Like GTA Online placing cheaters and jerks into servers together so they have to deal with the same BS they put other players through or even something like Serious Sam spawning in an unkillable demon scorpion that just rushes you and kills you instantly if you play the pirated version past the first part of the first level.

[KejiGoto]

oh keji gotta love cheaters when they "prosper" right?

 

It's not about them prospering, it's about making the experience frustrating and slowing down their progress in a way that isn't immediately clear what is going on. Where when you just ban a cheater there's a good chance they could just easily make a new account and keep playing using the same setup they did before. They immediately know their account is gone, never coming back, and they move right on. The biggest annoyance is they tried to sign in and got told no so now they have to make a new account which takes like a minute.

 

Compare that to tanking their MMR so they can't join games they will spend time waiting to get into a match but won't be able to join with anyone so they will get tossed in a server all by themselves that has such a low rating even brand new accounts can't join. So they sit in there and wait, nothing happens so they leave and go looking for another game. They waste their time trying to figure out why they can't get into a game and I know this works because I've seen cheaters come to the forums to ask why they can't join games and why their MMR is so low after I had reported them directly to members of the development team. 

 

Make the process as annoying as possible and chances are they will lose interest far faster. People who cheat are mainly playing to spoil the game for everyone else so they don't care about score, skill, or anything like that, they just want into matches as fast as possible to ruin the game. Take that away and suddenly their whole reason for playing the game became a chore instead of something they enjoy.

[StubbornPuppet]

IP bans are almost useless and usually end up screwing someone else more than the intended target.

[DM30]

IP bans are almost useless and usually end up screwing someone else more than the intended target.

What about temporary IP bans as an option? If your account is banned, you can't create a new one from that IP for some set time period, but it isn't permanent so if someone else is given that IP later it won't affect them.

Just throwing that out there. Thoughts?

[StubbornPuppet]

An IP address can too easily be changed.

[SS396]

IP bans are almost useless and usually end up screwing someone else more than the intended target.

 

With as small as the player base for Hawken is, the only unintended casualties are going to be people living in the same household.  And yes it sucks but when your friend or family cheats, then oh well you can blame them instead.  I highly doubt you could ever find an example where someone innocent actually got blocked due to getting a random IP address.

 

An IP address can too easily be changed.

 

Have you ever contacted your ISP and asked for a new IP?  Its not as easy as you think, my ISP doesn't even provide the service of changing an IP address for residential accounts and I use a fairly common ISP that is nationwide.

 

 

Like I said, this seems to be the standard cry when someone mentions IP bans, and not once in my entire internet experience have I ran into the problem of being banned because I happened to be assigned an already blocked IP address.  In fact I've never heard it ever happen to anyone I know either.  Seems to be more of a unproven internet myth.  I think you'd have better luck hitting the lottery.

[SS396]

Compare that to tanking their MMR so they can't join games they will spend time waiting to get into a match but won't be able to join with anyone so they will get tossed in a server all by themselves that has such a low rating even brand new accounts can't join. So they sit in there and wait, nothing happens so they leave and go looking for another game. They waste their time trying to figure out why they can't get into a game and I know this works because I've seen cheaters come to the forums to ask why they can't join games and why their MMR is so low after I had reported them directly to members of the development team. 
 
Make the process as annoying as possible and chances are they will lose interest far faster. People who cheat are mainly playing to spoil the game for everyone else so they don't care about score, skill, or anything like that, they just want into matches as fast as possible to ruin the game. Take that away and suddenly their whole reason for playing the game became a chore instead of something they enjoy.

I forgot to add this to my other post

I don't feel this would work anymore, since the game currently ignores the MMR restriction after 90 seconds it would just dump them in the lowest ranked lobby where they'd happen to run into many more new players and would really ruin the experience for them.

Back when the game had strict MMR limits for lobbies, yes it did work, but now it would require its own special coding as the game never reaches the condition where it throws you into an empty lobby anymore.

But I'm all for putting the cheaters with the other cheaters, and keeping them from everyone else.

[StubbornPuppet]

 

Like I said, this seems to be the standard cry when someone mentions IP bans, and not once in my entire internet experience have I ran into the problem of being banned because I happened to be assigned an already blocked IP address.  In fact I've never heard it ever happen to anyone I know either.  Seems to be more of a unproven internet myth.  I think you'd have better luck hitting the lottery.

 

I ran admin for a couple of forums (one for video games and another for a sport) for about 10 years and I ran into it several times - especially from players in busy cities and countries like China where either the city or an apartment complex provides free internet or where gamers gather in gaming cafe's.  It's also not quite as hard as you might think to change your IP... or to get your ISP to do it for you.

 

Sure, Hawken's current player base is small and it would be a pretty safe bet.

 

However, there are other UT3 based games that allow administrators to track and block a users processor serial number - it would sure be more effective if they blocked that.

[SS396]

It's also not quite as hard as you might think to change your IP... or to get your ISP to do it for you.

Actually it is. I spent at least 2 hours on 3 different phone calls to support to get them to accomplish my request to change my IP recently. Even after forwarding them pages and pages of router logs and listings of IP addresses of the DDOS attackers, they still did not have the ability to just change my IP at will. Their system didn't have any means to do it internally. They had to escalate me to level 3 support and then the guy did some really silly stuff like mark my account as unpaid, and then pray that the system would move me to an invalid DHCP pool. It took a few tries by the support guy doing this to get my IP address changed, so I'm sorry it isn't simple at all, and I use a fairly common nationwide ISP.

Their other recommendation if they couldn't get it to work was to leave my modem powered off for 24 to 48 hours so the DHCP lease would timeout, and then maybe I'd be assigned a new address, but they couldn't say that would guarantee a change either. If you think you can go without internet for 24 hours these days go ahead and try and let me know how that goes, then you can tell me how simple it is.

[ATX22]

I ran admin for a couple of forums (one for video games and another for a sport) for about 10 years and I ran into it several times - especially from players in busy cities and countries like China where either the city or an apartment complex provides free internet or where gamers gather in gaming cafe's.  It's also not quite as hard as you might think to change your IP... or to get your ISP to do it for you.

 

Sure, Hawken's current player base is small and it would be a pretty safe bet.

 

However, there are other UT3 based games that allow administrators to track and block a users processor serial number - it would sure be more effective if they blocked that.

 

I thought the tracking users by the CPU serial number was mostly an Intel thing, and back in the PIII days?  CPUID(3), right?  Doesn't that require a BIOS setting to be enabled along with AMD CPUs flat out not supporting it?

[StubbornPuppet]

I thought the tracking users by the CPU serial number was mostly an Intel thing, and back in the PIII days?  CPUID(3), right?  Doesn't that require a BIOS setting to be enabled along with AMD CPUs flat out not supporting it?

 

You know, I don't honestly know how they did/do it.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

try changing your isps login details aka acct name/password so you must change it in your modem also, then that may rehash a new ip/lease for you

[ATX22]

try changing your isps login details aka acct name/password so you must change it in your modem also, then that may rehash a new ip/lease for you

 

If you're on a residential cable connection, you can usually get a new IP by simply power cycling your modem ( don't recall if it needs to be off long enough for the lease to expire ).  Might be similar for people on DSL.. no idea how it works for those lucky ****s on fiber though.  To combat that, Reloaded would have to ban people by the subnet rather than the IP.  Or, if you're using a proxy connection, they'd would have to either detect for or ban IP ranges owned by proxy services.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

only unique cdkeys can combat multiple identities unfortunately so we are screwed, ip bans are not used because of futility and where you slightly hinder a hacker via ip bans you may ban legit users by mistake so best avoid ip bans and just stick to forensics to prove said ip belongs to someone via log comparisons and i hope they re enable the tutorial missions so hackers cant so easily return 

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

banning and ID systems based on hardware ids are no longer used cause of how easy it is to fake a new os/hardware ids to totaly evade the id system that was so painfully designed to keep track of hackers, look at punkbuster it uses hardware ids but everyone seems to be able to spoof again n again, vmware etc??