15 replies to this topic

[Hyginos]

This has been discussed quite a bit in the past, but not so much on the new forums in view of the new devs. Since I happen to have a convenient example to present I will would like to note again that revenge kills and nemesis kills are a bit unbalanced in deathmatch:

Spoiler

 

Despite being beaten decisively, I am leading in score by a narrow margin.

 

Maybe dial that back a hair when doing the next balance pass.

[Amidatelion]

This has been discussed quite a bit in the past, but not so much on the new forums in view of the new devs. Since I happen to have a convenient example to present I will would like to note again that revenge kills and nemesis kills are a bit unbalanced in deathmatch:

Spoiler

 

Despite being beaten decisively, I am leading in score by a narrow margin.

 

Maybe dial that back a hair when doing the next balance pass.

 

Come now, Hygs, 9-7 isn't a decisive beatdown, give yourself some credit.

 

But yes, devs, this. Also, maybe consider ditching Underdog Bonus in Deathmatch, if only to wipe the smug smiles off smurfs.

[Hyginos]

9-7 isn't a decisive beatdown

 

Damage ratio. I got out-shot almost to a steak dinner.

Edited by Hyginos, 24 February 2016 - 09:22 PM.

[kaiserschmarrn_]

Damage ratio. I got out-shot almost to a steak dinner.

If you consider the fact that he was playing an a class and you were playing a b class the gap doesn't become too significant; In that situation the a class can usually be expected to be dishing out significantly more damage than it takes due to its health pool.

[coldform]

You did more damage per life than melee did to you, because he seemed to have more effective health per life. On the other hand, his effective KD ratio is higher.

 

MATHS:

 

7 scouts = 2240. you dealt 4173, so melee had an effective 1.86 scouts per life, or 511 HP per life. you killed 13.02 scouts, skewed kd ratio of 0.86.

9 raiders = 4365, you took 7474, so you had an effective 1.71 raiders per life, or 830 HP per life. melee killed 15.39 raiders. skewed kd ratio of 1.15.

 

you had a measly 7 point lead because you scored more nemesis kills than he did?

 

he was your nemesis twice? what was the kill count per life?

Edited by (TDM)coldform, 24 February 2016 - 10:58 PM.

[crockrocket]

Also, maybe consider ditching Underdog Bonus in Deathmatch

[StubbornPuppet]

In a 1v1... isn't the opponent always your nemesis, like right from the start?

[_incitatus]

In a 1v1... isn't the opponent always your nemesis, like right from the start?

 

Not until they kill you three times without you killing them.

 

Scoring is pretty lame in 1v1 DM though.  I always thought points were the same whether you are killing an A class or a C class, regardless of damage done in a 1v1 (since you should be doing 100% and nobody is there to assist)?

 

Nemesis plus revenge kill ends up being a 50 point kill vs a 20 point kill without the bonuses.

Edited by (thc)_incitatus, 25 February 2016 - 07:36 AM.

[WillyW]

MATHS:
 
7 scouts = 2240. you dealt 4173, so melee had an effective 1.86 scouts per life, or 511 HP per life. you killed 13.02 scouts, skewed kd ratio of 0.86.
9 raiders = 4365, you took 7474, so you had an effective 1.71 raiders per life, or 830 HP per life. melee killed 15.39 raiders. skewed kd ratio of 1.15.

 
I think its worth pointing out that the way you do your maths is reminiscent of mine.  Except you did the equivalent lives, instead of equivalent deaths.
 

Vanguard armor: 635
Damage Sustained: 7768
Deaths: 2

Damage absorbed:
= 7768-635(2)
= 6498

Deaths equivalent:
= 6498 / 635
= 10.23

Edited by WillyW, 25 February 2016 - 08:26 AM.

[MomOw]

Beside the scoring (revenge / nemesis bonus, underdog bonus), the fact that you can join mid-game is also a bad point in DM.

That and players teaming, kill stealers, etc...

 

So IMHO we should keep only duels as ranked DM, and winning based on K/D ratio only, and keep open DM as "playground" without ranking (i.e. no MMR modification as CoopTDM and CoopBotDestruction).

[The_Silencer]

Just as side note:

Ranking in second or third position after the match might show some more friendly message to you on the screen. The actual message you see when you don't rank first is like.. pretty fustrating? Maybe man has played his DM of the year although ranked second "only".. within a populated DM match I'd say that at least the 3 guys on top of the ranking should see some new and more friendly message after completing the fight.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Amidatelion]

Just as side note:
Ranking in second or third position after the match might show some more friendly message to you on the screen. The actual message you see when you don't rank first is like.. pretty fustrating? Maybe man has played his DM of the year although ranked second "only".. within a populated DM match I'd say that at least the 3 guys on top of the ranking should see some new and more friendly message after completing the fight.

Just my 2 cents

I actually remember this feeling intensely from when I was new and it seriously turned me off Deathmatch until I joined a clan. Might be something worth looking into for new player retention.

[spinningchurro]

I actually remember this feeling intensely from when I was new and it seriously turned me off Deathmatch until I joined a clan. Might be something worth looking into for new player retention.

 

 

 

Naw screw that, keep it like it is.

 

 

 

 

"If you ain't first, you're last."

[The_Silencer]

Naw screw that, keep it like it is.

 

 

 

 

"If you ain't first, you're last."

 

Hey guy; easy, easy .. let me tell ya

 

1.- As amidatelion said, new players won't take or understand that much due to the unfriendly factor of the messages after a DM match.

 

2.- It has somehow a negative impact from an statistics standpoint.

 

3.- Does not incentivate pilots much when they join in a DM game which has already started..

 

4.- Many pilots may feel somehow confused and/or deceived for a number of many other reasons ...

[_incitatus]

Hey guy; easy, easy .. let me tell ya

 

1.- As amidatelion said, new players won't take or understand that much due to the unfriendly factor of the messages after a DM match.

 

2.- It has somehow a negative impact from an statistics standpoint.

 

3.- Does not incentivate pilots much when they join in a DM game which has already started..

 

4.- Many pilots may feel somehow confused and/or deceived for a number of many other reasons ...

 

[crockrocket]

Naw screw that, keep it like it is.

 

 

 

 

"If you ain't first, you're last."

 

I'm sure you can agree though that it's surprising the first time you come 2nd in a dm. Most competitions award at least the first three positions. Also an easy change as far as coding goes, so why not?