135 replies to this topic

[6ixxer]

Aaaaaand an actually relevant and interesting thread derailed.  Awesome.

For the love of corn.... lol

...back on track.
I think xbox being Micr0soft and PC being Micr0soft will synergize better than PC vs PS4.
Hopefully the core updates work on both and only gui and controller mapping are the big differences.

Hawken given its turn cap shouldn't have huge advantage to PC, but mouse aim would.
Lets hope they don't implement an unfair aim assist for console. Mechs have a big hitbox, so hopefully aim assist won't really be necessary.

[6ixxer]

Upgrading to a Scuf controller allowed for better coordination over controls, which is a nice competitive touch towards playing against KB&M players. On a related note, it could be a great way for Microsoft to push their XB1 elite controllers.

Whats a scuf controller? is that the one you posted in the controller thread?
I use a joystick and I do ok in local matches against 1900MMR. Currently my main issue is lack of ping equality.
I may have to deal with not getting over 2K on a joystick, but I'm ok with that.

Edited by 6ixxer, 11 May 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[XPloyt]

Scuf is a third party that mods controllers with back paddles, thumbsticks, grips, etc. I use to use the Scuf 360 which was pretty nice, but the thumbsticks simply just wear out too quickly, and it seems they just don't want to sell kits for people to replace them, otherwise I'd still be using them - I'm not going to send in a controller I could easily fix - ironically enough, they licensed their patents to Microsoft for the XB1 Elite - the one I posted with Neo - which is what I'm currently using. Performance-wise, I actually prefer it over the Scuf.

[HHJFTRU]

Also you should go do some research on cross platform play, Microsoft and Sony are both quite interested and have recently made changes to their policies to allow this. Ever hear of Rocket League?

 

Rocket League works fine with controllers. Hawken, not so much IMO (I tried it once, it was awful)

[Sp3ctrr]

-snippity-

^^^^

THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS. 

 

It's funny how reading the first few lines of OP made me think automatically about Blacklight. We don't want history to repeat itself.

[Texhnolyzing]

I hope its cross platform, I had a xbox one player play hawken and he tried mouse and keyboard and sucked on Assault, he switched over to a controller and was actually dominating in the 1800 MMR average matches. Sure there may be a limit on the upper bound and work you need. But even if it brings in a flux of 2000-2100 mmr players for the 2400+ mmr players to play, it will be better than them dropping into 1600 mmr matches...

 

The majority of hawken weapons are projectile based and reflex based on timing when to explode. All of that is easy for a controller. The only time you could see disadvantages is hitscan vs hitscan in long range battles because of the accuracy and precision needed without some mad tweaked xbox controller settings to tone down sensitivity.

[ATX22]

As long as they don't move Hawken over to UWA... Might be funny for a day or two to hear console users over the in-game voice comm.. because you can't have a console fps without in-game voice.

[MomOw]

Do you think that they'll add autoaimbot for their X-box port as many fps does on consoles ?

[coldform]

So, vivox has an api for Xbox one, and Dev updates state they will work with vivox for pc ingame voip. Let's hope we get some cross platform support, and working in game voip, for both playerbase's sake.

[harmless_kittens]

IMHO anything different is good.  Consider this possibility.  X Box One owner plays Hawken.  Their friend, who does not own an X Box but DOES have a PC, likes what he sees.  Next thing we know, we have another new Hawken player.  So anything they can do to increase the visibility of the game is a good thing, in my view.  Right now I think there's a lot of people who would like the game if they actually found/tried it.

[hellc9943]

IMHO anything different is good.  Consider this possibility.  X Box One owner plays Hawken.  Their friend, who does not own an X Box but DOES have a PC, likes what he sees.  Next thing we know, we have another new Hawken player. 

And two months after this unlikely occurrence we will have two players leaving.

[ATX22]

IMHO anything different is good. Consider this possibility. X Box One owner plays Hawken. Their friend, who does not own an X Box but DOES have a PC, likes what he sees. Next thing we know, we have another new Hawken player. So anything they can do to increase the visibility of the game is a good thing, in my view. Right now I think there's a lot of people who would like the game if they actually found/tried it.

Kind of. Lots of people have actually tried Hawken over the years. Player retention problems has been a thing for Hawken. Increased visibility should be a good thing, I just hope reloaded can keep people interested in Hawken for more than a week or two.

[Hyginos]

Finish the game first

 

Sounds good on paper, but who has to decide when the game is "done"? I, for one, cannot think of a single successful F2P game who's devs have ever said "yep. we're done now. Game is finished". Ongoing updates seem to be a cornerstone of this business model.

 

As far as I'm concerned Hawken is just about feature complete. Obviously you can talk to any veteran (inb4crafty) player and get a long list of things they would change, but I submit that that will always be true.

[StubbornPuppet]

I thought I was going to read all of this topic before replying... but only made it as far as the 6th post before seeing the devolution...  so TLDR and IDC...

 

Microsoft has made quite a big publicity campaign lately out of saying they want all titles which are available on Xbone and PC to have full cross-play functionality.  They started with Rocket League and are announcing new titles frequently.

 

So, it IS very possible that Hawken will be cross-play.  But, I'm honestly not holding my breath.

[Amidatelion]

I posted here last night that I didn't see this doing much for Hawken in the long run, and while I still don't think it will, I've come around on the "good" this will do Hawken.  

 

Right now it's a dead game. There were 88 people online last night globally when I stumbled in from the bar. Eighty-eight. I don't want to play in a community that can't break triple digits.  

 

I don't care anymore that cross platform players are going to get wrecked. In this environment any new players are going to get wrecked. I'd rather have an influx of 1,000+ players so that the wrecking is diluted and new players have a chance to develop some skill that will see them enjoy the game more and give us something worth shooting at.  

 

So sure, Reloaded, bring on the console players. Let us welcome them with open arms and warmed up guns, with turn caps and pre-detonating TOWs with huge AOEs. 

 

Just make sure you follow up with actual content because the spectre of APB isn't looming anymore. It is the sum total of your reputation.

[TheButtSatisfier]

There were 88 people online last night globally when I stumbled in from the bar. Eighty-eight. I don't want to play in a community that can't break triple digits.  

 

Statistically speaking, Hawken's population does break triple digits throughout most of the day. You just happened to hop on during the period between midnight and 5AM where it drops into the 80's.

 

Now, that said: assuming a basic linear population drop based on the last few months of data, you'll be playing with an average of less than 100 people by August of this year if nothing happens to change our population. Sometime around November is when the population will hit 0.

 

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 12 May 2016 - 07:16 AM.

[Amidatelion]

Statistically speaking, Hawken's population does break triple digits throughout most of the day. You just happened to hop on during the period between midnight and 5AM where it drops into the 80's.

 

Now, that said: assuming a basic linear population drop based on the last few months of data, you'll be playing with an average of less than 100 people by August of this year if nothing happens to change our population. Sometime around November is when the population will hit 0.

 

 

Nice graph, and its good to see hard data being thrown around! Hawken's statistically projected decline is a wonderfully depressing thing to watch.

 

However, this is a great example of how steamcharts can be wrong and would probably be harder to demonstrate in any community with a larger but less-dedicated base. According to those charts around 12:30 there were between 142-139 players online. This is reported by clients who have the game loaded. Thing is, that doesn't mean they're playing. Hell, it doesn't even mean they're in game. It just means that Hawken is what they had open the last time Steam Charts queried for the information. 

 

But hawken.herokuapp.com reported 88 people in server. This has its own downsides, namely highlighting a server in server browser will register you as in that server (I showed as in An Imperfect Congregation while doing this check. I was not.) But it is rather more fine-tuned than Steam Charts as the information is live and shows exact server data. Kudos to Shadeness for the tool.

[StubbornPuppet]

But, unless I'm horribly mistaken, the Steam chart can only show those players who logged in THROUGH the Steam client.

 

I think that at least half of Hawken players, myself included, just log in using the .exe file.

[MomOw]

there is that ashfire tool page that provides more accurate data.

 

http://tools.ashfire908.com/hwkcharts/

 

P.S.: RIP Ashfire, we miss you   

Edited by (KDR) MomOw, 12 May 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Badtings]

I am gunna be pissed if they've been stringing us along to simply port hawken to the xbox. 

 

Already making a couple voodoo dolls. 

[ATX22]

But, unless I'm horribly mistaken, the Steam chart can only show those players who logged in THROUGH the Steam client.

 

I think that at least half of Hawken players, myself included, just log in using the .exe file.

 

Yes, but as Amidatelion pointed out, that number isn't dependent upon you actually playing, just launching the game via STEAM.  I could "help" pad the numbers by launching Hawken via steam and walking away.  

 

It all depends on what you're trying to get out of the numbers.   Problem is, no matter which site you go to, the trend is downwards and has been for some time.+/- 50 or even 100 isn't going to amount to much unless that trend is stopped or reversed.

[Badtings]

"Hawken, released in 2012, is still around-- can you beleive it?"

 

Still around cuz of us. 

 

Don't forget it Reloaded. 

[Sylhiri]

Even though Hawken's original design was with Xbox in mind before it changed to PC, it's success really depends on if the port of the game is actually decent on consoles. If it's a crappy port then they just wasted time and money.

[DallasCreeper]

Already making a couple voodoo dolls. 

Well if they're as good-looking as your art, I'll bet they'll still be flattered. 

[coldform]

Well if they're as good-looking as your art, I'll bet they'll still be flattered.

The closer they resemble their counterparts, the more effective they will be.

[DieselCat]

I am gunna be pissed if they've been stringing us along to simply port hawken to the xbox. 

 

Already making a couple voodoo dolls. 

 

 

The closer they resemble their counterparts, the more effective they will be.

 

I made a Josh bobble-head doll that I'm soaking in valerian root and eye of Newt...also have large pins at the ready  ? 

[DeeRax]

I made a Josh bobble-head doll that I'm soaking in valerian root and eye of Newt...also have large pins at the ready  ? 

Well it must've worked, cuz he's dead.

[AxionOperandi]

I don't care anymore that cross platform players are going to get wrecked. In this environment any new players are going to get wrecked. I'd rather have an influx of 1,000+ players so that the wrecking is diluted and new players have a chance to develop some skill that will see them enjoy the game more and give us something worth shooting at.

Not really an issue.  With a influx of new players MMR can actually work for PC players as well as console.

 

Console players and mix it up with mostly other console players and newbie PC players alike.  New PC players will have more forgiving learning experience and idealy move up the ranks and start mingling with more of the PC crowd.  Most console players will players will likely hit some kind of skill wall within their player base and mostly stay there which should be fine assuming the game reaches a large enough audience.

[Amidatelion]

Not really an issue. With a influx of new players MMR can actually work for PC players as well as console.

Console players and mix it up with mostly other console players and newbie PC players alike. New PC players will have more forgiving learning experience and idealy move up the ranks and start mingling with more of the PC crowd.

...that's what I said.

[crockrocket]

Sounds good on paper, but who has to decide when the game is "done"? I, for one, cannot think of a single successful F2P game who's devs have ever said "yep. we're done now. Game is finished". Ongoing updates seem to be a cornerstone of this business model.

 

As far as I'm concerned Hawken is just about feature complete. Obviously you can talk to any veteran (inb4crafty) player and get a long list of things they would change, but I submit that that will always be true.

 

Perhaps "finished" is the wrong word. What I mean is that I don't believe Hawken in its current state can maintain a population increase; most of the people who pick up the game will leave after a couple months. The new player experience needs to be addressed in some way before we start bringing in large amounts of new players. Reducing the grind was a good step in the right direction, but it's not enough. IMO active development will also help player retention. I think one of the reasons games like league or hearthstone are successful is that there are regular updates, even after the game is released. 

Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 12 May 2016 - 11:31 AM.

[Badtings]

The closer they resemble their counterparts, the more effective they will be.

I'm serious, I'll totally go 'left hand path' on those fuzzy bunnies.

 

After all the... "soon" and "good stuff is coming" posts. 

 

There better be some skittle rainbows and unicorns on the horizon or 'tings is getting his voodoo on :D

[Amidatelion]

I'm serious, I'll totally go 'left hand path' on those fuzzy bunnies.

 

After all the... "soon" and "good stuff is coming" posts. 

 

There better be some skittle rainbows and unicorns on the horizon or 'tings is getting his voodoo on :D

 

[GGGanjaMan]

How do we know the xbox port won't be exclusive to itself? The article has no mention of it going cross-platform with pc. In fact, that's probably the only way they'll retain any of the new audience that the port might bring in, since if those new players do run into the 300 or so of us that have been playing for years, most of them are just going to cry hacks and quit the game probably.

[StubbornPuppet]

As I was typing it as an afterthought to another post I was making, I realized the following is more suited to this topic:

 

I think the most likely scenario is that all of the work done in the last year on Hawken was exclusively for Xbox One... and that nothing has been done to the PC version at all.  They have a very small team - so it's quite reasonable to focus all efforts on a very specific avenue, the one that will actually net the greatest returns.   It's a bit overly-optimistic to believe that any amount of updates, fixes, changes, content additions or whatever will ever bring any kind of a respectable audience to Hawken on PC/Steam - it's been here a very, very long time by online video game standards.  And, frankly, it doesn't have a good reputation.  On Xbox, it gets a fresh start with a fresh audience who've probably never heard of it before.

[Amidatelion]

How do we know the xbox port won't be exclusive to itself? The article has no mention of it going cross-platform with pc. In fact, that's probably the only way they'll retain any of the new audience that the port might bring in, since if those new players do run into the 300 or so of us that have been playing for years, most of them are just going to cry hacks and quit the game probably.

 

It's all conjecture at this point, and the happiest kind for us.  

 

Still better than 24/7 shitposts.

[DallasCreeper]

Well it must've worked, cuz he's dead.

You're welcome?

[KejiGoto]

How do we know the xbox port won't be exclusive to itself? The article has no mention of it going cross-platform with pc. In fact, that's probably the only way they'll retain any of the new audience that the port might bring in, since if those new players do run into the 300 or so of us that have been playing for years, most of them are just going to cry hacks and quit the game probably.

 

Ratings typically don't detail things like cross platform play and actual game functionality.

That's all we know right now, is that Hawken was rated for Xbox One.

[DerMax]

As I was typing it as an afterthought to another post I was making, I realized the following is more suited to this topic:

 

I think the most likely scenario is that all of the work done in the last year on Hawken was exclusively for Xbox One... and that nothing has been done to the PC version at all.  They have a very small team - so it's quite reasonable to focus all efforts on a very specific avenue, the one that will actually net the greatest returns.   It's a bit overly-optimistic to believe that any amount of updates, fixes, changes, content additions or whatever will ever bring any kind of a respectable audience to Hawken on PC/Steam - it's been here a very, very long time by online video game standards.  And, frankly, it doesn't have a good reputation.  On Xbox, it gets a fresh start with a fresh audience who've probably never heard of it before.

This would explain why they went silent on us.

[Hyginos]

Ratings typically don't detail things like cross platform play and actual game functionality.

That's all we know right now, is that Hawken was rated for Xbox One.

 

I wonder how much effort it costs to actually get that rating. If it is inexpensive or mitigated in bulk it may have been considered a worthwhile cost to get it rated without any intention to actually release to that market.

[TheButtSatisfier]

I wonder how much effort it costs to actually get that rating. If it is inexpensive or mitigated in bulk it may have been considered a worthwhile cost to get it rated without any intention to actually release to that market.

 

This is a good point. This is the Taiwanese governing body that oversees game ratings. I couldn't find a section regarding their review process, but based on the growing market trend for mobile games, I'm sure they have a process that solely based on questionnaire similar to how the ESRB does.

 

More importantly, the Taiwanese rating page for Hawken shows that it was "already certified by a third party fair certification organization, named:ESRB, PEGI". What probably happened is that the Taiwanese rating agency has a policy to automatically accept a rating by an organization they trust - namely ESRB and PEGI. so when Reloaded approached them with the intent to rate the xbox one variant of Hawken, somewhere during that process Reloaded pointed them to the existing ratings and saved time and/or money.

 

Also worth noting: there's a linkedin profile for someone who is working on porting Hawken from PC to XB1.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 12 May 2016 - 02:06 PM.