92 replies to this topic

[talon70]

I am pretty sure by default it sends someone from anywhere to USeast unless they change their region. by default it should send pilots to the lowest ping in their own region.

 

1 is my vote I guess, to solve the problem at hand of newer folks sitting and waiting but not joining (how could that not have been fixed before).

 

Pilots will continue to congregate in USe until we increase the player base.

[MomOw]

Whatever is the most convenient, and please include the option to see your ping of each server before you enter.

This would make my life so much better.

 

This.

[JackVandal]

My preference would be to have preferred regions, prefer usw, then it will try and put all the players with a usw preference in the same server, if not enough players, cycle to the second preference, and so on, as for the options listed above, i think a single region should be fine so long as servers can be sorted by ping.

[Hink]

 

 

 

1. The super-consolidation option:

- One single region for the entirely of planet earth.  Each Gameserver in the list includes the city or country in which is it located, e.g. one region called "Hawken" with servers named "na-west-coast", "na-central", "na-east", "brazil", "sydney", "frankfurt", etc.

 

 

-capnjosh

 

This option has already be done before, I think before the wreckage update was live. several people of community during that time said or at least voiced their opinion that this was a bit too messy and/or confusing. For that reason I think going with option #2: 

The significant consolidation option:

- Regions of "Western Hemisphere", "Europe", and "Asia".  Gameservers indicate city/country where they are physically located. 
 

Would be a bit better then what's currently live. Or a mix of option#1 and #2 could be interesting to see, but really I just want to bring an end to "ping" fights at the end a match. lol, has funny has they are anyways. 

[Zabukovic]

I'd go with option 3.  Just make sure there's a clear indication of how many people are on each server.

[capnjosh]

Option 2 or 3.  But it must be made absolutely crystal clear that one can change regions to where they live.  So many people connect to the wrong regions and get awful ping and think the game is poorly made.  I'm not particularly partial to any, but I do like option 2 or 3 because it gives me more filters right off the bat, instead of having to toggle them myself.  Option 1 would feel cluttered and unorganized.  If option 1 would be implemented, comprehensive filters need to be added to narrow down region, available/disabled servers, empty servers, etc.

 

 

Regardless of which option is implemented,

1. Make it obvious and clear that one can change regions to where they live (if it's Option 2 or 3)

2. Make it obvious and clear for each server within the regions where it's located (for all options)

3. Make it obvious and clear what the skill ratings for the servers are.  The current 3 star system is very confusing.  Many new players hop into a 1 star server, thinking it's "easy" when in reality it's an awful server for them to join.  They should be joining 3 star servers but they don't because they think it's a harder server.

 

Good point on the 1-3 star system..  whatever the case, we need to make it obvious that "this server will be a really good time for all involved"

[hashms0a]

Have you tried europe servers ? not sure if the timezone differences are convenient for you (the europe servers are not active 24/7),
but you could get better ping there.
Playing with over 200 is hell though, if you can reach even moderate success like that you really are a hero.

Yes, it does. I get 120 PING With Europe servers.

Edited by hashms0a, 30 March 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Anichkov3]

Option 3

I do not understand why you ask this question at all? Those who play a long time already passed such a "consolidation" servers. The result - a huge dissatisfaction with of people who can not play with normal ping with rapid start of the match. It's terrible when you harvest the button "play" and do not know you will enter the server USE or USW, because the difference in ping 80 ... 100.

[capnjosh]

I'm leaning towards option 3, having come from a long history of playing online games that lumped North American and South American regions together. It's not pretty.

 

This would be better solved by simply disabling join in progress during the last few minutes of a game. I'm kind of surprised they don't do that by default.

 

I've been reading through the matchmaking code, and generally speaking, it's been taking the approach of just looking at overall MMR averages.  It seems we have some opportunities for improvement fwiw.  Happy days are ahead ;)

[ticklemyiguana]

I've been reading through the matchmaking code, and generally speaking, it's been taking the approach of just looking at overall MMR averages.  It seems we have some opportunities for improvement fwiw.  Happy days are ahead ;)

I was speaking with someone earlier and I vehemently argued for option one. However I believe I may have been too optimistic regarding the optimization protocol through which matchmaking should be run. Somewhat ideally, the user should be able to select from any of these options. Essentially, the user should be able to choose for his or herself whether to prioritize ping or wait time.

[CrimsonKaim]

Anything AS LONG AS THE PING IS BELOW 50MS

[MatsuhiroMaru]

We don't want this:

Someone joins, selects a non-populated region, then hits "Play".  Then waits.  And waits.  Then quits and uninstalls, wondering if the universe and Hawken hates them.

 

 

I propose we merge server regions in some way, but I'm not convinced on exactly how yet.  In general, it's a question of just renaming the regions and then indicating where in that region each gameserver is located.  These are based on various posts I've read while lurking in forums:

 

 

 

I think i would like something like in "Battlefield Play For Free" , in this game each server show the ping for you , i think i likes option 1 and 2 but showing your ping in each server so you maybe can join other regions if your ping isnt really bad, this will fill empty servers from other regions cause if you are tired of your region server can check the ping in others and fill that. So merge all you want but showing ping, probably this fits better to option 2.

Edited by MatsuhiroMaru, 30 March 2015 - 10:43 PM.

[HellAlex2762]

Option number 3 is the best. This way is developed a bigger region and the server population won't be a huge problem. The matching will be faster and even if the time for starting a match exceeds fixed amount of time (like 30-40 sec.) then start matching with the nearest servers. For example if you are in Asia and starting a match take more than 30-40 sec., the server will try to find a match in the nearest region - Europe and Africa.

[Nept]

I like to know the (fairly detailed) location and ping of any servers I might join.  That's just me, though - might be more information than is necessary for the average pub player.

[Pastorius]

Ideally, it would be nice for the matchmaker to work its way up the chain. Starting with the region you are in, doesn't find anything, expands the search range and so on until it reaches the entire globe.

 
This would be awesome if you could implement it and if it did it quickly enough. Also, it should tell you what it's doing ("searching EU servers" etc.) rather than just staring at "Queuing" for eternity. 
 

Regardless of which option is implemented,
1. Make it obvious and clear that one can change regions to where they live (if it's Option 2 or 3)
2. Make it obvious and clear for each server within the regions where it's located (for all options)
3. Make it obvious and clear what the skill ratings for the servers are.  The current 3 star system is very confusing.  Many new players hop into a 1 star server, thinking it's "easy" when in reality it's an awful server for them to join.  They should be joining 3 star servers but they don't because they think it's a harder server.

All these points are good and point 3 is bang on the money. 

 

What about a "Quick Match" option (there is an empty box in the UI) that throws you in the first compatible game any region, any gamemode? (lowest ping first of course)

 

I do like to be able to separate the regions in the server browser. I don't like the thought of having to trawl through all the NA servers to find the EU one I'm looking for. So if you can just consolidate the regions for the quick match function and leave the regions in tact for the browser then it's all good.

Edited by Pastorius, 30 March 2015 - 11:15 PM.

[Houruck]

1. That would cause high pings.

2. It would be nice to see the name of the location added (not like we do not know that already :p).

 

People can change the region of the server browser from a drop-down menu. Perhabs the UI needs some tweaking.

I guess matchmaking is the main focus here. But adding more location info would be almost meaningless in this case.

Edited by Houruck, 30 March 2015 - 11:36 PM.

[Pastorius]

1. That would cause high pings.

 

Sorry mate but what do you mean about high pings?

[Houruck]

Sorry mate but what do you mean about high pings?

If there is one region it does not matter what description a server has in its name, the matchmaking would throw Asian players to American servers for example.

[Lioot]

To be honest I don't really know whether any of these will positively or negatively affect me, my ping and my enjoyment of the game. Although they all seem to be pointing in the direction of fixing the matchmaking problems, they also seem to worsen the experience of some others.

 

Number 1 makes it seem that it is hard to find the server (Australia), numbers 2 & 3 feel as though the Australian servers will be replaced for a more preferred and centralised server in the area, namely the South Asia or Asia region.

 

More to the point, how about instead, the match making system search the current region, and if no games are found, it looks for games in the next closest region, and so on 

[Silv3r_Shadow]

Im from Australia and i get thrown on whatever server there is on any games, north america for game for me is around 200 ping and eu a little bit higher, i know the differance between low and high but having a ping of 200 isnt an a problem and is very playable. Countries that always have servers like murica and eu dont know what its like for the other 100 countries, it aint that bad

Edited by Silv3r_Shadow, 31 March 2015 - 12:11 AM.

[Pastorius]

If there is one region it does not matter what description a server has in its name, the matchmaking would throw Asian players to American servers for example.

 

Thanks man, Yeh, that's the trade off but I think what capnjosh is saying is that new players are queuing endlessly for servers in their region and quitting the game because of this. So, if the matchmaking includes all regions it will at least drop people in a match even if the ping is higher. 

Edited by Pastorius, 31 March 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[hobboy]

I'm a little confused about what the consolidation relates to. Is this consolidation for MM, or the server browser, or both? If the consolidation is for MM as well, then what may happen (in regards to option 1) is that the low population regions never get populated because everyone gets sent to the US where there is at least 1 populated (but not full server). So people in other regions will all get sent to higher ping servers, so their low ping ones will not populate.

 

I think Option 1 is ideal for the broswer, but filtering options are required. At this stage, I'd prefer to be in a game even if the ping was high rather than not having anything at all.

 

ALSO: it'd be awesome if we could have some kind of queue system for servers. Eg lets say I want to play an AUS server but can only do US, it would be nice to play in US and queue for AUS until enough players have queued. Obviously there are some issues that would need to be address such as leaving games. One problem is the AUS region is that people see that there are no games so don't bother waiting in a server, so go to another region and then the next person to visit aus servers will see empty servers and so on.

 

Edit: I misread what this is about but the below is still relevant for the server browser.

 

Especially with the australian servers the population is always low, making it easier to browse all regions means we can make better choice about which server to go to (population + ping wise). I don't want to have to check 4 regions (in order of increasing ping) before I find a game.

 

So if all the servers are in the one place for me to browse, I could do something like sorting by ping, and then maybe we could just have a simple filter option?

 

As we get more servers and what not, the filtering option will become more important (but there aren't too many servers atm). I think having to navigate to get to different server regions should be changed.

Edited by hobboy, 31 March 2015 - 12:34 AM.

[opicr0n]

I vote 1. The new game from Splash Damage called Dirty Bomb uses the same approach.

 

Works very well. As long as you can save your server filter options.

Edited by opicr0n, 31 March 2015 - 12:17 AM.

[Elite_is_salty]

As long as people aren't restricted out of certain regions then alright!

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I agree with Lioot, as an Australian player, I feel that we are not getting an overall positive way on making this work for us. Generalizing the Australian server to something like Asia or even Australasia would definitely affect our ping in a way that may be dramatic enough for some Australians to straight up quit the game. Example is me with my 100+ ping in my home server - increase that to 200 and I'd be a very unhappy drop-bear.

 

And trust me - you would not want to see that. 

Spoiler

 

Hisssssssssssss

 

On a less scary note, I think that the change shouldn't be dramatic and sudden without any prior warning to already existing players. That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing any of the suggestions as long as players are not restricted from specific regions - as Elite had said. Also, if there is a plan on reworking servers, please, and I seriously mean please make a short tutorial for players. I think that a simple pop up with a diagram of the basic servers page with a few labeled descriptions, names etc. - anything that is necessary for better gameplay and/or reduced ping.

 

Other than that, I'm good with all suggestions as long as they don't remove servers that already exist.

 

Question though: Would we be able to keep private servers? 

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 31 March 2015 - 01:30 AM.

[LEmental]

Option 3

 

You should also lists the pings of the servers.

 

I would like to play will all the NA people.

Edited by LEmental, 31 March 2015 - 01:49 AM.

[n3onfx]

Please make it anything but option 1, if a new player plays from EU to NA or inversely without realizing it  and gets 150+ ping they will get a negative opinion of the game.

 

You could do that and make the region switching submenu more visible, that way new players can realize they can switch servers and find more games if they wish to. I think it's the best option of retaining quality servers as the most available to a player while making alternatives more obvious.

 

Option 1 would also create this problem:

 

If the consolidation is for MM as well, then what may happen (in regards to option 1) is that the low population regions never get populated because everyone gets sent to the US where there is at least 1 populated (but not full server). So people in other regions will all get sent to higher ping servers, so their low ping ones will not populate.

 

Edited by n3onfx, 31 March 2015 - 02:21 AM.

[gopherAnime]

I vote #1. I thought #2 is ok, but Asia includes Oceania/Aus, SEA (offline), & Japan. I recall Japan has much higher ping than USE (300ms vs 250ms), so #2 might not work for Aus/NZ (I'm in NZ). Many on forums say they play odd hours, or their ping makes no geographic sense, so #1 default sort by ping is best. I used to check all 3 regions, usually empty, then go to USE. It wastes time, and newbies won't bother.

 

From forums & capnjosh main server problems seems:

P1) Currently everyone treats USE as "global region", causing overcrowding, wasted empty servers elsewhere, bad pings, MMR volatility due ping changes, -> bad matchmaking, etc. "Select Region" remembers USE choice so no one checks other regions except a few old players.

P2) Newbies/casuals start in non-USE region, wait forever, uninstall. Or start in USE region, get terrible pings, 300ms ping player gets wrecked by a 40ms ping player of equal starting MMR, causing both players' MMR to fluctuate, and 300ms player ragequits.

(How mmr, matchmaking, & ping relates is an important issue, not addressed here.)

 

Possible solutions:

P1) Use capnjosh's #2 or #1, "Select Region" defaults to closest region for server lists only. To prevent overcrowding America, it should not remember last selection, or resets to default closest region on Hawken restart. Default ping sorted. Prevent clutter by default "Hide empty servers" & "Hide disabled servers", currently list forgets these checkboxes everytime "View servers" is clicked. Most players never want to see these (put password private servers on a separate section/filter).

As of 10:30pm NZT, there's 8~12 playing USE servers, 0 on all other regions. Option #1 (global region) would work perfectly, and no clutter. Clutter should not be an issue if you provide filters. First few servers are best ping anyways so there's not many reasons to check other servers. For advanced players: filters "Show Siege/DM/etc only", "Private servers only", "Prosk only", "3 stars only", & "USW/America servers only". This last filter makes both #2 & #1 available in the same GUI.

 

P2) Solution for P1 already helps newbies/casuals. Important difference is casuals first see the 5 choice buttons (Any Mode, TDM, MS, S, DM), instead of serverlist, and they won't bother clicking "View servers", and they shouldn't need to. A big mistake is clicking a choice is restricted to the current region. Casual set it to Australia, he really doesn't care what region, just wants to play (with good ping if possible), waits minutes, "Join game failed" pops up, click ok, auto exit to home screen, click Play again, repeat. He also cannot see # of players or ping of the regions, so region choice becomes a blind guess, and again he shouldn't need to. For buttons view only, remove the server list. Now player clicks TDM, within N minutes, player enters a game in closest region (eg default Australia), or enters the queue list for his region if others are also waiting & grow the group for the first Australian server. If the N minutes pass or user clicks a "Search global region instead", player is immediately put in the best ping active server. This prevents local regions from emptying out, as if the buttons searched global region directly then local regions would never get a server started.

 

Notifications: if player's local region detects people queuing, send auto invite/notification so player who's on a USE game can come back after this match.

Region chat: All folks can chat on their chosen/local region. Organize events, invites, ask for a Siege, etc.

 

Star column is titled "Quality". I think it's ok. Maybe a tooltip that explains how quality's determined. Or just call it "Fun Factor".

 

Summary:

Buttons choice view: newbie/casuals like this. No regions lists, read P2 for search logic.

Server list view: vets use this. #1 global region, or #2 large regions. Advanced filters (regions can be one of the filters), minimize clutter (read P1).

Default all ping sorted.

Edited by gopherAnime, 31 March 2015 - 02:27 AM.

[Guns_N_Rozer]

i prefer Number 2 , but how about automatic detect my best region considering the lowest ping .server with name and ping would be great ,so we can see where we are playing and how good the ping is .

[Reippers]

I find it interesting option 1.

 

For in my example the last few months I am using a horrible internet in Brazil server my ping is at 120 when good usually 160 if I go pro USA East server with the internet get there with 200-400 ping is varying, so I'm not even going.

 

For those who live in Brazil play in the US East is one of the good options for normal ping is between 90 and 120, but also to the play, however, in Brazil Hawken is still little known, released mainly by the recent past and I'm doing my best with what I have today to change that.

 

Now new players are appearing, some old are returning, and I have particularly made many videos on server Brazil and encouraged Brazilians to play in Brazil server.

 

Many of us get tired of playing this wonderful game to be playing with people where the ping is 4-5 times lower than ours and hardly has a chance on the battlefield. Thus they become discouraged.

 

So I prefer option 1.

[DigitAll_Ninja]

I used to play League of Legends Beta on the NA servers. When they got new servers, I switched because of the latency, and couldn't go back. And later I felt that that was a big mistake, not all communities are the same. I know this is not a MOBA, and the population is a lot less.

 

I feel that having the chance to pick between a server with people you like or a server with ping you like should be a "must".

 

I support option 1: The super-consolidation option

[Pap]

the best option would be number 3

but considering how hawken needs to get stronger and more popular again i think number 1 would be the best for the game. if only you guys provide sufficient filtering options

[reznog]

Option 2 sounds great.

 

On a side note, can we merge Siege and MA into one rotation? Nobody is playing MA anymore.

 

Edit: Yeah, kinda shitty suggestion, but Siege matches have become a rare sight on the EU servers and i haven't played a MA match since the big silence.

Edited by reznog, 31 March 2015 - 06:12 AM.

[Amidatelion]

Option 2 sounds great.

 

On a side note, can we merge Siege and MA into one rotation? Nobody is playing MA anymore.

 

lolwut

[X1Alpha2000]

To see, how many players are in what Region, would be good. And we need a Global Chat, where all Players can talk to each other.

[hobboy]

Global chat is a great idea. What if we had chat rooms for each region and when you log in you automatically connect to your region (or whatever has lowest ping). So when people in your region are calling for a game when you're on a different server you can respond (in game) and sort something out

Edited by hobboy, 31 March 2015 - 07:02 AM.

[Skrill]

2

[comic_sans]

Option 3 for me, but really, being able to see the ping of the server would be most important.  Some servers are anomalously laggy for me some times (east coast server ping of ~140 from PA, normally ~30), and while I'm aware that it's largely a Verizon issue, being able to see which servers are being friendly would do a lot.

 

Also, it's how I and every other person I know who has played any other fps game looks for a server.  First ping, then playercount.

[AxionOperandi]

Option 1 is probably the best thing to do for the game.

 

When players really know whats going on there could be an option to limit it to particular region if they choose.

[PepeKenobi]

Temporarily, I'd option 2 should work well enough at least for a limited amount of time. Let's say until the average amount of active players per day might reach aproximately a number of 1250 or so.

 

Once the number of active players would be high enough then you could go back to the current subsystem.

 

Anyway, the most important thing on this subject is ping or latency. And should be the preference in whatever solution you're considering to implement in the game. If I play from EU then I'll use to play on that region according to what better ping I do get from al lthe available servers in the list. Assuming that picking up individual servers will be still there (thing which I do highly recommend). Additionally, if I'd like to play outside of my natural region then I'd like to pick up the server or region in which I'll get the better ping. Ie. I'd prefer playing on the East Coast than to play on the West Coast.

 

Well, this may seem obvious but must be what matters the most into whatever solution you guys may be cooking up tp improve the current new end user's XP.

 

Just my 2 cents. :)

Edited by PepeKenobi, 31 March 2015 - 11:47 AM.