17 replies to this topic

[Xer06siX]

The name says it all and everyone already knows that the community (On PC) has been dwindling. It's time to get something together for release. New maps are needed badly, gameplay code fixes, etc need to be put into closed beta at the least.  Just look at what Garry's Mod accomplished. Same thing here, same potential.

[Xer06siX]

By Garry's Mod I'm refering to opening the game to community created content. I strongly believe a lot of folks have many things to contribute to this game for free. I can for one say that I do.

[Amidatelion]

First off, never offer any art, assets or work for free. 

 

Ever.

 

It undermines the value of your own works, the work of the potentional artists of the community and the value of the actual developers themselves. 

 

Considering they took down a mishmash of servers for a very hazily cited "payment was sketchy" I don't think Reloaded has the legal or economic expertise to begin investing in an enterprise as fraught with danger as community content.

 

Valve and other companies offer community content only after lengthy, multi-million dollar investments in infrastructure and legal agreements. And let's be honest, the only reason they make their money back is because of the sheer scale of their economies. 

 

Hawken and it's playerbase, across all three platforms, account for less than a third of a percent of even the least populous of those games. Against the absolute cost of preparing for community content, the actual community of Hawken falls flat.

 

Furthermore, I think that community-generated content flies in the face of far more important wish-listing, namely the development of stand-alone servers. I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Hawken is not going to be a long-term cash cow and will one day have to die. It will die as a corporately hosted service, one day. I would vastly prefer for there to be an open, standalone server option that does away with the Storm servers and accounts along with the associated distributed databases of parts, skins, etc. This sort of legacy, open-source standalone server cannot exist in the same space as community-generated, monetized content.

 

tl;dr rather than wish for things that serve neither long term nor short term advancement of the game, focus on things that will ensure the survival of the game, long term

[Xer06siX]

First off, never offer any art, assets or work for free. 

 

Ever.

 

It undermines the value of your own works, the work of the potentional artists of the community and the value of the actual developers themselves.

 

Considering they took down a mishmash of servers for a very hazily cited "payment was sketchy" I don't think Reloaded has the legal or economic expertise to begin investing in an enterprise as fraught with danger as community content.

 

Valve and other companies offer community content only after lengthy, multi-million dollar investments in infrastructure and legal agreements. And let's be honest, the only reason they make their money back is because of the sheer scale of their economies. 

 

Hawken and it's playerbase, across all three platforms, account for less than a third of a percent of even the least populous of those games. Against the absolute cost of preparing for community content, the actual community of Hawken falls flat.

 

Furthermore, I think that community-generated content flies in the face of far more important wish-listing, namely the development of stand-alone servers. I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Hawken is not going to be a long-term cash cow and will one day have to die. It will die as a corporately hosted service, one day. I would vastly prefer for there to be an open, standalone server option that does away with the Storm servers and accounts along with the associated distributed databases of parts, skins, etc. This sort of legacy, open-source standalone server cannot exist in the same space as community-generated, monetized content.

 

tl;dr rather than wish for things that serve neither long term nor short term advancement of the game, focus on things that will ensure the survival of the game, long term

I love the part about " investing in an enterprise as fraught with danger as community content.

 

"I think it's pretty clear at this juncture that Hawken is not going to be a long-term cash cow and will one day have to die." 

 

It is dead already. What is there to lose...

 

Another point, you are mainly focused on server side issues, I am more concerned with actual content.

 

Last point, I really enjoy what I do and I don't mind working for free. I cannot be concerned about the entire gaming industry and how it's run b/c i'm already in film and that's fuzzy bunny enough as it is.

 

I feel what you're saying but I strongly disagree.

[Silverfire]

Accepting and implementing community created content trivializes the work that the hired artists in the game have done or are doing.  Yes we want more content, but if I'm working on a film and my director decides to consider and implement work done for free yet my work which I am being paid to do is put aside in lieu of "being interactive with the community" then I'd be greatly offended. Why then even hire me?

 

 

RLD is far from implementing actual content to PC though, I would presume.

[Xer06siX]

I would take the pay and happily work alongside someone who is not, or vise versa. I don't believe it makes any of their work trivial. Communities have pulled games well past their "best case scenario" lifetimes ten times over in the past. No reason why it's cant be done here. The content that has been created exists because people busted their asses to make it happen, I respect that. It's time for other people to bust their asses too. It happens all the time that content created doesn't even make the cut at all. My buddy spent two weeks on the set of Magnificent Seven working his ass off and only made it in the film <30 seconds. He still GOT PAID and his job was done, at the end of the day it is just a job. if a major concern is getting paid go after it. I love what I do I don't care about monetary restrictions.

[Silverfire]

I would take the pay and happily work alongside someone who is not, or vise versa. I don't believe it makes any of their work trivial. Communities have pulled games well past their "best case scenario" lifetimes ten times over in the past. No reason why it's cant be done here. The content that has been created exists because people busted their asses to make it happen, I respect that. It's time for other people to bust their asses too. It happens all the time that content created doesn't even make the cut at all. My buddy spent two weeks on the set of Magnificent Seven working his ass off and only made it in the film <30 seconds. He still GOT PAID and his job was done, at the end of the day it is just a job. if a major concern is getting paid go after it. I love what I do I don't care about monetary restrictions.

 

It's not a matter of whether or not the person who does the work "for free" gets paid or not.  As I said, it trivializes the work that the paid people do and cheapens their jobs. As a company, why should I therefore hire people to do art work if I can just ask people to do it for free because they're fans?

 

working alongside community members is one thing but to take 100% community created art assets over developer created content is another thing.

Edited by Silverfire, 11 November 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[Xer06siX]

I would ask people who care, if they have anything to lend to the project. A project done well with a team is better than a last ditch effort by folks who have a lot on their hands. It's a victory for the community and the other devs, who have lost jobs over lack of funding or anything else like that. It happens, not every game gets made but there is no sense in accepting the loss of a dying pet when you know you can save it.

[Xer06siX]

Double post sry.

Edited by Xer06siX, 11 November 2016 - 06:05 PM.

[Amidatelion]

...you know you can save it.

...but you can't.

[Xer06siX]

Hawken as it is, is finished. I have no interest in saving it. What I do have interest in is what Hawken could be, what it is going to be if we can. That is worth putting up a fight for.

[6ixxer]

i'd love hawken to have a distributed private server option, where I can have a standalone package that can advertise itself in the hawken server list, but hawken doesn't bear the cost of hosting it. I'd be open to paying a nominal subscription to 'rent' the package and advertise it in the hawken server browser. It could allow local bot server or allow better WAN ping in those regions without datacentre hosting options.

 

If there was a commandline way of joining the server then it would be feasible to run these even if the rest of the game shutdown (so long as there was also a way of logging into the main game without RLD servers).

 

The problem is that I don't see Hawken putting in the work to do this.

[Arkhaun]

we speak of dark things people, let superstition guide us from this path!

Edited by Arkhaun, 14 November 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[MomOw]

About mods / community generated content, one thing that could have been done is to add a limited map creator. But this need to be implemented from the beginning, the same way Doom or Quake or other games does.

 

IMHO it's too late for that.

[Xer06siX]

About mods / community generated content, one thing that could have been done is to add a limited map creator. But this need to be implemented from the beginning, the same way Doom or Quake or other games does.

 

IMHO it's too late for that.

I like the limited map creator option, like set tiles set or something for amateurs, but UDK is perfect as it is. The editor is open to anyone who wants it for free. In order to work with the assets you have to data mine all of that and get it yourself (Which does nothing since you can't do anything with the material anyway) or go through a license. Just need to get a custom map server online to segregate it from the main game. Add some new game modes like CTF or Base Assault....done.

[Xer06siX]

Please lock, bury, burn, evaporate this thread. 

[PoopSlinger]

This game could be so much fun with user created stuff.  Its ded enough, why can't this happen.  Don't listen to Amid or silver, they are just being salty sadsacks.

[Xer06siX]

It's all good, I try to remain a professional. However, I won't stand being talked to in some kind of way. I will respond. I often try to settle things in PRIVATE MESSAGE, but sometimes rarely they have to share our conversation in the forum like it's some kind of a big deal. You know who you are, nobody else here does.