69 replies to this topic

[SOD_CyberTormentor]

Whats up friends, 

 

I have some doubt about weapons in scout, why the pro pilots use flak instead miniflak or heat canon, at last flak dps and rate is less than mini. I watch a lot of videos with great players playing with this weapon and always had this doubt in my mind!

 

I need play more with flak, but i a bit odd, perhaps due to delays in shots.

[Drrt4]

Corner play, Peek-a-boo tactics, Walk out, fire flack+TOW Dodge back in cover, Bad guy has no idea what just happened.

[PepeKenobi]

I do not own the flak cannon for my Scout yet so I do only use the miniflak right now. Something related I'd like to ask in here would be if the numbers per weapon for the Scout are accurately correct or not right now. That's been intriguing me somehow lately for some vague and weird reason (mostly "an intuitive one", I've to admit it).

[comic_sans]

Miniflak cannon makes you stay in the open and get shot at while you do damage, and you don't have as much health or air maneuverability as a zerker, so you're a bit of a target as a sustained weapon user.  Flak cannon lets you hide behind walls or shields while it's on cooldown, and you only have to pop out to fire.  Then you can hide again, and you're not getting shot.  Rinse and repeat.

 

Also no, none of the numbers for the weapons in-game are correct or even related to anything in some cases.

Edited by comic_sans, 14 April 2015 - 04:46 AM.

[CraftyDus]

One of my favorite scout pilots uses miniflak. He can toe-up with any of the older scout-ho flak-hoochies.

 

 

Heat users are unloved by their own mothers.

No decent human being plays with heat. Heat users on any mech are not to be respected. 

Edited by craftydus, 14 April 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[SOD_CyberTormentor]

Something related I'd like to ask in here would be if the numbers per weapon for the Scout are accurately correct or not right now. 

 

That's the point Obi, that's the point!

Edited by SOD_CyberTormentor, 14 April 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[milSpec]

A pro Heat user is much more scary to me than the flak user. While you can kind of force engagements to stay out of flak range, Heat has the reach to make escape difficult. The advantage goes to the Heat cannon in corner play too, while the flak requires line of sight to deal damage, the splash on the Heat is suited to dealing damage around corners and walls.

[LaurenEmily]

Heat users are unloved by their own mothers.

No decent human being plays with heat. Heat users on any mech are not to be respected. 

That's something new for me to hear. flak scouts seem to be hated by some because of their hitscan nature and high damage, but i don't get why heat cannons should be despised as well.. Is this another 'my opinion vs your opinion' kind of thing or what's wrong with heat ?

[CraftyDus]

Heat too easy.

Add scanner and behold the fully realized end result of what surely began as an unwanted pregnancy.

Avoid becoming this kind of abomination friends.

Edited by craftydus, 14 April 2015 - 05:05 AM.

[SOD_CyberTormentor]

Heat too easy.

Add scanner and behold the fully realized end result of what surely began as an unwanted pregnancy.

Avoid becoming this kind of abomination friends.

i understand the feeling crafty. I usually play in south america, and has a lot of players with combination scout+heat, infiltrator+heat, i barely appear in the corners and has already hit a cannon, when I think to return the shot, I'm ded!   

 

Yoda disapproves it, he enjoys long struggle!

Edited by SOD_CyberTormentor, 14 April 2015 - 05:16 AM.

[LarryLaffer]

That's something new for me to hear. flak scouts seem to be hated by some because of their hitscan nature and high damage, but i don't get why heat cannons should be despised as well.. Is this another 'my opinion vs your opinion' kind of thing or what's wrong with heat ?

I think that craftydus means "Zomg Heat's splash so OP nerf plz". IMO Heat cannon excels in corner-play only if your opponent let you utilize it's splash. If your enemy is smart enough, he/she will use combination of ground and aerial maneuvers, and you'll have to put direct hits at your target between dodges which is easier to do with Flak than with Heat.

 

Heat Cannon is a viable option to choose on Scout. It makes direct shots harder to put, because you have to lead your target, but it gives you splash damage and range versatility.

[CraftyDus]

I think that craftydus means "Zomg Heat's splash so OP nerf plz".

 

No it's not that. I mean to say heat users are usually irritable from all that chronic bedwetting.

[dorobo]

heat is much harder lolz.. flak is hitscan with no splash so you can hug safely.Air dodging while charging heat is rly messy.. weird to aim with that button pressed. Without charging it's slower so you have to predict it's speed also where oponent will move next and how far while flak you just point press bam! In short for heat there's much more factors to consider.. but if it's used with a tow on a scout i guess u can spam it like mad without a care and do most of the dmg with rocket.

[petracles]

Heat too easy.

Add scanner and behold the fully realized end result of what surely began as an unwanted pregnancy.

Avoid becoming this kind of abomination friends.

 

Nerf it, why bother with burst weapons? Also buff sustained dps more. Instagib Assault Rifles are in. Splash damage is soooo yesterday.

 

 

Kappa

[Leonhardt]

One of my favorite scout pilots uses miniflak. He can toe-up with any of the older scout-ho flak-hoochies.

 

 

Heat users are unloved by their own mothers.

No decent human being plays with heat. Heat users on any mech are not to be respected. 

 

</3

 

 

Heat too easy.

Add scanner and behold the fully realized end result of what surely began as an unwanted pregnancy.

Avoid becoming this kind of abomination friends.

 

More often people use flak because its easier. Heat users who only use the splash are missing out on a bunch of damage. The way of the heat requires direct hits in most combat situations.

 

 

No it's not that. I mean to say heat users are usually irritable from all that chronic bedwetting.

 

Good thing I always pee before going to sleep.

[comic_sans]

One of my favorite scout pilots uses miniflak. He can toe-up with any of the older scout-ho flak-hoochies.

 

 

Heat users are unloved by their own mothers.

No decent human being plays with heat. Heat users on any mech are not to be respected. 

 

Go to Jail.  This, coming from an EOC raider goofbaron!

[CraftyDus]

Not saying heat pilots are irredeemable. With years of therapy and the right meds a significant portion of them could eventually contribute to a healthy society.

[StubbornPuppet]

I wish I had the skills to put a Heat Cannon on my Scout and be effective.... but I don't.

I always end up taking just a little too long to correct my aim (which get's me torn up by enemy fire) or my timing is off just a tiny bit around a corner (and I end up catching the corner with the shot and take all the splash damage myself).  It's a really tricky combination.

Like anything else in Hawken, if you learn to build and play to your own skill sets (presuming you have them), you can turn really tricky/sensitive combinations that would be a detriment to most players into a deadly attribute.

[n3onfx]

Heat Scout is perfectly viable, in fact some players use only the Heat instead of the Flak and do very well. It requires different playstyles and leaves you more vulnerable against flying targets but it's very good.

 

In fact I'd say Heat on a Scout is the best mech you can use it with. Coupled with the tow and the zoomzooms you can get good angles.

Edited by n3onfx, 14 April 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[CraftyDus]

Not trying to step on anyone's ego here. I'm sure heat's fun in the same way that a lazy morning toss can be.

To be fair I hadn't even mentioned the prevalence of vestigial tails and pronounced browridges among it's afficianodos.

 

 

I <3 you all.

Everyone is special.

Some are more special though.

Way more.

[thedark20]

Burst damage is part of Infiltrator's arsenal for example. Combined with Heat is a deadly assasin, but in a combat vs 2 more mechs he's mostly a ded mech, and has to run away. Also to make sure you land direct shots with the Heat you have to charge it up, so you have to wait more often until it charges.

Btw, we are talking about Flak vs Mini-Flak, what's doing Heat here?

[dorobo]

try toss that grenade and heat at the same time! 

[CraftyDus]

Really there shouldn't be such a stigma for those who prefer heat.

I'm all for the open acceptance of them. 

It's a big world and we need all kinds.

And it's not like you can get drool on you through the internets.

[BluetoothBoy]

Burst damage is part of Infiltrator's arsenal for example. Combined with Heat is a deadly assasin, but in a combat vs 2 more mechs he's mostly a ded mech, and has to run away. Also to make sure you land direct shots with the Heat you have to charge it up, so you have to wait more often until it charges.

Btw, we are talking about Flak vs Mini-Flak, what's doing Heat here?

Because Heat is awesome. <3

[thalenko]

I recently started to play with a Heat Scout and have to say, man that is fun, even when I blow my face off from a misfired shot, when that one hits it's like a popcorn jumping from my pot

Edited by thalenko, 14 April 2015 - 07:03 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

Heat Scout best Scout
crafty go home

[CraftyDus]

You guys are an inspiration to millions of people looking to succeed at independant living with a minimum of in-home care.

[ticklemyiguana]

Heat cannon is generally better than flak. Those stating that flak is better than miniflak are correct in the fact that flak scout allows you to remain in cover longer while maximizing damage, whereas minflak does much less damage per shot. Heat cannon offers the same potential, but produces splash damage and allows for longer range engagements.

While the splash radius of the charged Heat cannon is extremely high, it is one of a few weapons that's quite difficult to master and also at charged mode has the second lowest DPS for a primary weapon in the game. The dynamic of the Heat cannon is such that firing it uncharged will net you an extra 40 or so DPS (actually doubling it), and doing so accurately can easily be the difference between life and death. Utilizing the uncharged heat cannon is one of the most difficult weapon timings in the game. Not only is its projectile speed and RoF different than the TOW, meaning you have to fire at a different time than it, but it also lacks both the ability to remote detonate and the splash damage of the TOW and so requires you aim with high precision. This ability to switch between high burst and somewhat sustained is personally my favorite aspect of the weapon.

It is worth noting that the damage per charged shot is about 30 less than a full flak shot and uncharged still has a lower DPS, all while being a projectile weapon. The cause of Crafty's salt is unknown.

The charged shot does roughly 15 more damage and very nearly doubles the splash radius, which is about 150% of the TOW rocket. (Whereas uncharged, its splash radius is 3/4 the size of the TOW rocket, because that's just math.) At short to mid range, the charged shot can be utilized as a hitscan or near hitscan weapon, though at longer ranges you will have to noticeably compensate.

The flak is easier to use and takes significantly less mental effort to use than any heat cannon playstyle beyond simply charging and firing around corners.

Fact: a charged heat cannon shot coupled with a TOW rocket will kill any A class in two cycles of direct hits. A flak cannon will do the same, however with the exception of the berserker and the reaper, landing the TOW is not necessary to finish a kill. (2 flak shots and a TOW will do 341 damage at full effect, meaning in order to take out a berserker or reaper, you barely have to graze them with the TOW's splash to finish them off. The charged heat cannon will only do ~285 damage without a second TOW in the same cycle.) This dynamic is particularly notable as high tier scout duels have been known to last over a minute after first engagement, meaning piloting a scout is very largely a matter of positioning and timing while knowing exactly where your opponent is without actually being in his or her line of sight.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 14 April 2015 - 10:53 AM.

[thedark20]

Heat cannon is generally better than flak. Those stating that flak is better than miniflak are correct in the fact that flak scout allows you to remain in cover longer while maximizing damage, whereas minflak does much less damage per shot. Heat cannon offers the same potential, but produces splash damage and allows for longer range engagements.

While the splash radius of the charged Heat cannon is extremely high, it is one of a few weapons that's quite difficult to master and also at charged mode has the second lowest DPS for a primary weapon in the game. The dynamic of the Heat cannon is such that firing it uncharged will net you an extra 40 or so DPS (actually doubling it), and doing so accurately can easily be the difference between life and death. Utilizing the uncharged heat cannon is one of the most difficult weapon timings in the game. Not only is its speed different than the TOW, meaning you have to fire at a different time than it, but it also obviously lacks the ability to remote detonate and lacks the same splash damage as the TOW and so requires you aim with high precision. This ability to switch between high burst and somewhat sustained is personally my favorite aspect of the weapon.

It is worth noting that the damage per charged shot is about 30 less than a full flak shot and uncharged still has a lower DPS, all while being a projectile weapon. The cause of Crafty's salt is unknown.

The charged shot does roughly 15 more damage and very nearly doubles the splash radius, which is about 150% of the TOW rocket. (Whereas uncharged, its splash radius is 3/4 the size of the TOW rocket, because that's just math.) At short to mid range, the charged shot can be utilized as a hitscan or near hitscan weapon, though at longer ranges you will have to noticeably compensate.

The flak is easier to use and takes significantly less mental effort to use than any heat cannon playstyle beyond simply charging and firing around corners.

Fact: a charged heat cannon shot coupled with a TOW rocket will kill any A class in two cycles of direct hits. A flak cannon will do the same, however with the exception of the berserker and the reaper, landing the TOW is not necessary to finish a kill. (2 flak shots and a TOW will do 341 damage at full effect, meaning in order to take out a berserker or reaper, you barely have to graze them with the TOW's splash to finish them off. The charged heat cannon will only do ~285 damage without a second TOW in the same cycle.) This dynamic is particularly notable as high tier scout duels have been known to last over a minute after first engagement, meaning piloting a scout is very largely a matter of positioning and timing while knowing exactly where your opponent is without actually being in his or her line of sight.

Pretty much that is how it works. we hopefully have flexible mechs, that means that they can make different roles inside their main role: an SS can be an excellent assasin at long range, but also can be useful for harrasing enemies or even supressing.

Every weapon has it's own function and we can experiment with them, we can't design a fix meta or we can't be not allowed to use a weapon because of people's opinion. We are here because we love HAWKEN and as it is, and also we love our community, that's why we share strategies and metas for our favourite mechs.

Just my opinion here!

[PepeKenobi]

Speaking of the Heat Cannon for the Scout: I'd like to just have higher projectile velocity (and probably slightly a bit more damage too) when charged instead of the current splash bonus (when charged). Actually, I tend to think that the splash bonus combined with an slightly lower damage per shot might be assigned to the non-charged mode for this weapon.

 

Note:; An skilled HC Scout pilot enjoying of a very good ping (especially if that ping is way better than yours in the server) can be something really scary on the battlefield. Like something nightmareish from what I've personally seen (some few times though) here at my end.

Edited by PepeKenobi, 14 April 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[SOD_CyberTormentor]

Guys, thank you for your comments, you are amazing, really heat cannon is interesting threw her a few times and the result is indisputable. My curiosity was really because I see very high tiers using flak and very few with mini. Always wondered this, it makes sense the question of maneuverability, so maybe I can not get used to it, I need to learn how to move well.

[CraftyDus]

Just remember that everytime a pilot uses a heat scout.....a unicorn, a centaur, and a generous loving houself are rendered sterile.

And I die a little on the inside.

[Leonhardt]

Just remember that everytime a pilot uses a heat scout.....a unicorn, a centaur, and a generous loving houself are rendered sterile.

And I die a little on the inside.

 

Good. We could use fewer of all of those.

 

Except for the Unicorns... thats just sad.

 

Edited by Leonhardt, 14 April 2015 - 09:07 AM.

[Silk_Sk]

I wish I could use HC scout to full effect. But I used HC Infil for so long, it ruined my HC scout. I always think I'm in an infil and aim my TOWs like they're grenades.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Also no, none of the numbers for the weapons in-game are correct or even related to anything in some cases.

 

This is interesting. Is there a spreadsheet or something that displays the correct figures?

[SoldierHobbes11]

Flak tends to fit the role of the scout the best and is easier to use than the heat cannon. I'll leave the video I did on the scout to give you my full oppinion on it.

[ticklemyiguana]

This is interesting. Is there a spreadsheet or something that displays the correct figures?

TICKLE TO THE RESCUE.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 14 April 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Merl61]

Attention thread. I have been requested by the OP to provide my "expert" opinion. I personally prefer flak due to the versatility and the fact that is pairs well with my more aggressive play style. The mini flak is really good if you have decent aim, but it is overall not as good as the flak. The heat is better than the flak if you are 100% accurate. That is very hard to achieve. Thank you all and good day.

[SOD_CyberTormentor]

Attention thread. I have been requested by the OP to provide my "expert" opinion. I personally prefer flak due to the versatility and the fact that is pairs well with my more aggressive play style. The mini flak is really good if you have decent aim, but it is overall not as good as the flak. The heat is better than the flak if you are 100% accurate. That is very hard to achieve. Thank you all and good day.

 

Thank wizard!!! 

[-Tj-]

Mini flak also generates heat at quite an insane rate if you're not careful, flak and HC are a little easier to manage. Flak offers high burst damage when engaging up close, and none of that pesky self-damage that tends to happen when you're up close and personal (HC is terrible at kissing, just like TOWs).